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  #1  
Old 06-01-2012, 05:17 PM
purplehorseshoe purplehorseshoe is offline
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When a cop lets you off with a warning, is there any official record of that?

In other words, if a police officer is in a swell mood and has been pulling motorists over but letting them off with a sternly-worded warning but no ticket, does his department supervisor think he's been slacking off all day, as opposed to a grouchy police officer who writes a ticket/fine for every motorist he pulls over? Does it look like Officer Friendly has been napping on his shift?
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  #2  
Old 06-01-2012, 06:08 PM
SmartAlecCat SmartAlecCat is offline
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Maybe, maybe not. He can write up an 'official' warning that goes in the records, or just let you go.
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  #3  
Old 06-01-2012, 06:14 PM
dolphinboy dolphinboy is offline
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It depends. Some do and some don't. If you think there is a written warning against your driving record you have a right in most states to see your official record. YMMV
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  #4  
Old 06-01-2012, 06:22 PM
Disposable Hero Disposable Hero is offline
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I always thought it would make sense if the police had a central record of people who had been given verbal warnings with no further action taken. So the cop would know if the person they're talking to has been warned before or not, and if so give them a ticket the second time because the verbal warning obviously hasn't worked.

But apparently this is to complicated and/or expensive to implement...I know not why.

But this is Northern Ireland, I imagine a cop handing out warnings instead of fines would record the fact in his/her pocket notebook and could present it to his/her Sergeant if asked to prove they haven't been snoozing and eating donuts all day...
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  #5  
Old 06-01-2012, 07:34 PM
Rico Rico is offline
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There is a system in place here in Southern Utah. Over the air dispatch refers to the system simply as "Spillman." I googled and came up with this:

Spillman Technologies

Apparently every time an officer pulls over a vehicle, and even lets them go with a warning, it's logged in the Spillman system and sent to the central respository. Any department in the USA that uses Spillman can then access this. I've heard a Spillman check return a warning that was written in Illinois.

Usually a simple warning would not be acted on, but several warnings along with a conviction or two would be enough to alert a patrol officer to act with greater care during a traffic stop.
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  #6  
Old 06-01-2012, 08:03 PM
sevenwood sevenwood is offline
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Pennsylvania USA resident here.

A nearby residential street is one way during rush hour. I've forgotten and driven down that street the wrong way and been pulled over. The officer told me that I was being given a warning and that if I was pulled over again for the same thing within the next twelve months I would be given a ticket.

So it sure sounded to me as if that warning would be on my record for the next twelve months.
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  #7  
Old 06-01-2012, 08:21 PM
St. Urho St. Urho is offline
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If there's not a written record of the warning, I would imagine there would be a dispatch record of the traffic stop. Given how dangerous traffic stops are, I can't imagine a cop stopping someone and not advising their dispatcher.
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  #8  
Old 06-01-2012, 08:21 PM
VOW VOW is offline
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Did you present your driver's license?

Did the cop go back to the patrol car with your license in hand?

If there was no "License, Registration, and Proof of Insurance, please," then I don't see how any record could exist.

HOWEVER--the license PLATE scanning equipment and software is in use in many locations. Your VEHICLE could have some kind of entry into a database.


~VOW
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  #9  
Old 06-01-2012, 10:23 PM
Fubaya Fubaya is offline
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Originally Posted by St. Urho View Post
If there's not a written record of the warning, I would imagine there would be a dispatch record of the traffic stop. Given how dangerous traffic stops are, I can't imagine a cop stopping someone and not advising their dispatcher.
They do that around here. They radio "1-Adam-12, traffic stop at first and main, red Toyota Camry" to give at least some information about the vehicle in case something happens. Even if they don't radio for anything else during the stop, when they are done they radio "1-Adam-12 back in service" meaning they're done with the stop and available to take new calls. So, it at least goes out over the airwaves. It must be logged, or dispatch would keep trying to send people on calls when they were already busy.

There is usually a sergeant on the beat who not only does cop stuff but also goes around assisting the officers and probably has a pretty good idea what his guys are up to most of the time. So if Officer Friendly writes far less tickets that Officer Grumpy, he probably gets accused of being too nice rather than napping.
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  #10  
Old 06-01-2012, 11:57 PM
StephenG StephenG is offline
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I was pulled over in New Jersey in 2000, and given a written warning.
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  #11  
Old 06-02-2012, 03:16 AM
Disposable Hero Disposable Hero is offline
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Originally Posted by sevenwood View Post
Pennsylvania USA resident here.

A nearby residential street is one way during rush hour. I've forgotten and driven down that street the wrong way and been pulled over. The officer told me that I was being given a warning and that if I was pulled over again for the same thing within the next twelve months I would be given a ticket.

So it sure sounded to me as if that warning would be on my record for the next twelve months.
S/he could have been bluffing.
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  #12  
Old 06-02-2012, 10:47 AM
VOW VOW is offline
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Originally Posted by Disposable Hero View Post
S/he could have been bluffing.
NO!

You mean cops don't tell the TRUTH all the time, cross their hearts, hope to die? Stick a needle in their eye?


~VOW
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  #13  
Old 06-02-2012, 11:14 AM
Elendil's Heir Elendil's Heir is offline
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I have twice received written warnings for speeding from Shaker Heights, Ohio police officers. They apparently do keep a central record.
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  #14  
Old 06-02-2012, 11:36 AM
Loach Loach is offline
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Originally Posted by StephenG View Post
I was pulled over in New Jersey in 2000, and given a written warning.
Probably from the State Police. Their written warnings are internal documents. No other agency in the state has them. We certainly don't. If there is another department that does it, it is an internal document for them as well. The is no record of that sent to the state DMV.

Despite all the speculation above, the answer is "it depends." Each state, each police department, will have their own policy and procedure. I can tell you for certain that their is no central system in New Jersey that logs in warnings.

In my department we obviously call in all stops. The stop is logged in to the dispatch system. If there is no ticket issued then it is noted as such and closed. The only thing recorded is the plate, name, sex and race of the driver. To say it is recorded goes a little far. Its not easily searchable by that info unless a ticket is issued. So if you get pulled over there is no record of the warning or what it is for.

The only exception is with our internal communication system. As an officer I can note that I gave a warning to someone on it and when the next guy runs the plate the info comes up. It is not an official record, its just an internal note for those in the department. Quite frankly only a couple of people use it on my department. When I was on the road I used it. I thought it was a useful tool.

Last edited by Loach; 06-02-2012 at 11:36 AM..
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  #15  
Old 06-02-2012, 11:38 AM
lawbuff lawbuff is offline
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Originally Posted by Elendil's Heir View Post
I have twice received written warnings for speeding from Shaker Heights, Ohio police officers. They apparently do keep a central record.
From past research, there are a few localities in Ohio that have speeding as an M-1, of course that makes it an arrestable offense and triable by jury.

Some type of "Hgts" community sounds familiar?
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  #16  
Old 06-02-2012, 11:39 AM
pkbites pkbites is offline
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Around here we tend to only write written warnings when they are equipment violations. And then if the violation is not fixed in 5-10-15 days (officers choice) the written warning becomes a citation. (After the repair the written warning has to be signed by an officer, ANY officer in the state, and mailed in to the issuing agency).

Verbal warnings still get an FI (field interview) card filled out and turned over to records. The verbal warning stays on the computer for 12 months so if another officer from that specific agency pulls you over again, he'll know about the previous warning. As of now there is no inter-agency sharing of verbal warnings.

Most of us write more than enough tickets than to worry about the Chief thinking we're slacking when we give out warnings. I've yet to write an adult for not wearing their seat belt. The fine is only $10 and if you're too stupid to buckle in I figure Darwin will take care of you in a better manner I can.
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  #17  
Old 06-02-2012, 11:56 AM
campp campp is offline
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Originally Posted by StephenG View Post
I was pulled over in New Jersey in 2000, and given a written warning.
I was pulled over in Oklahoma 2 weeks ago and given a written warning. I slowed down the rest of the way.
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  #18  
Old 06-02-2012, 01:03 PM
Elendil's Heir Elendil's Heir is offline
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Originally Posted by pkbites View Post
...I've yet to write an adult for not wearing their seat belt. The fine is only $10 and if you're too stupid to buckle in I figure Darwin will take care of you in a better manner I can.
Under Ohio law, no drivers seatbelt is a minor misdemeanor - $30 fine max. Passenger seatbelt likewise, but $20 fine max. You can't be stopped just for that, but it's a second or third charge in many traffic cases. I see them all the time in my courtroom.
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  #19  
Old 06-02-2012, 01:50 PM
Disposable Hero Disposable Hero is offline
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Originally Posted by VOW View Post
NO!

You mean cops don't tell the TRUTH all the time, cross their hearts, hope to die? Stick a needle in their eye?


~VOW
You're being sarcastic why exactly?
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  #20  
Old 06-02-2012, 02:17 PM
KneadToKnow KneadToKnow is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Disposable Hero View Post
I always thought it would make sense if the police had a central record of people who had been given verbal warnings with no further action taken. So the cop would know if the person they're talking to has been warned before or not, and if so give them a ticket the second time because the verbal warning obviously hasn't worked.

But apparently this is to complicated and/or expensive to implement...I know not why.
You don't understand why it costs more to implement a new layer of bureaucracy than not to?
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  #21  
Old 06-02-2012, 02:19 PM
VOW VOW is offline
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Originally Posted by Disposable Hero View Post
You're being sarcastic why exactly?
Because most people think that cops have to tell the gospel truth.

"You have to come with me," is typical.

Of course, if you are a loudmouth, vulgar, especially STUPID drunk, cops will tell you whatever they have to, to bring the situation under control.


~VOW
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  #22  
Old 06-02-2012, 02:31 PM
lawbuff lawbuff is offline
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Originally Posted by Elendil's Heir View Post
Under Ohio law, no drivers seatbelt is a minor misdemeanor - $30 fine max.

True, but Municipalities can have a MM under state law as far up as an M-1 for thier Ordinances, then you may get nailed, depending on where you get cited.
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  #23  
Old 06-02-2012, 02:38 PM
Disposable Hero Disposable Hero is offline
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Originally Posted by KneadToKnow View Post
You don't understand why it costs more to implement a new layer of bureaucracy than not to?
What a strange thing to say, of course I understand that to implement a policy costs money, but a system to record if a verbal warning has been issued to a driver doesn't seem especially difficult or expensive to add to police systems which already record other information about traffic stops and police contact with the public.

A record is made when a ticket is issued, how hard would it be for an extra tick box to be added to the form stating that a verbal warning was issued instead of a fine or penalty points, or even a system for the officer to tell his comms operator by radio that he has stopped someone, issued advice and warning and a record made against the numberplate in a database to that effect?

In the cost-benefit analysis it seems to be a relatively simple and extremely useful procedure to implement and would be helpful in the whole 'hearts and minds' relationship between police and the public. I imagine the vast majority of cops would prefer issuing a verbal warning for a first offence rather than issuing a ticket. But for that to be effective they need to know if the person they're talking to has had a warning before.

If you want to be pedantic you can read that as 'I don't understand why such an obviously useful system is too costly or complicated to implement'.

Quote:
Originally Posted by VOW View Post

Because most people think that cops have to tell the gospel truth.

"You have to come with me," is typical.

Of course, if you are a loudmouth, vulgar, especially STUPID drunk, cops will tell you whatever they have to, to bring the situation under control.
That's a potentially interesting thread in itself ("When is it OK for a cop to lie?"), we rightly expect police to be honest and law-abiding themselves but they're going to have to dishonest on occassion to do their job effectively. I suppose it depends on the nature of the lie and why it's being told.

But then policing is a human enterprise on both sides and like anything involving humans its a grey area.

Last edited by Disposable Hero; 06-02-2012 at 02:39 PM..
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  #24  
Old 06-02-2012, 02:39 PM
Rigamarole Rigamarole is offline
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Originally Posted by sevenwood View Post
A nearby residential street is one way during rush hour.
Wow, a street that toggles between being a two-way street and a one-way street depending on the time of day? That just sounds like a bad idea all around.
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  #25  
Old 06-02-2012, 02:54 PM
KneadToKnow KneadToKnow is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Disposable Hero View Post
What a strange thing to say, of course I understand that to implement a policy costs money, but a system to record if a verbal warning has been issued to a driver doesn't seem especially difficult or expensive to add to police systems which already record other information about traffic stops and police contact with the public.

A record is made when a ticket is issued, how hard would it be for an extra tick box to be added to the form stating that a verbal warning was issued instead of a fine or penalty points, or even a system for the officer to tell his comms operator by radio that he has stopped someone, issued advice and warning and a record made against the numberplate in a database to that effect?

In the cost-benefit analysis it seems to be a relatively simple and extremely useful procedure to implement and would be helpful in the whole 'hearts and minds' relationship between police and the public. I imagine the vast majority of cops would prefer issuing a verbal warning for a first offence rather than issuing a ticket. But for that to be effective they need to know if the person they're talking to has had a warning before.

If you want to be pedantic you can read that as 'I don't understand why such an obviously useful system is too costly or complicated to implement'.
Pedantic it may be (I've been called worse), but you're now saying that you don't understand why the costs seem to outweigh the benefits. That's not what you said before.
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  #26  
Old 06-02-2012, 03:10 PM
levdrakon levdrakon is online now
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Wow, a street that toggles between being a two-way street and a one-way street depending on the time of day? That just sounds like a bad idea all around.
Some streets in DC do that. Yes, I got stopped for turning onto one of those roads after the evening direction switch.
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  #27  
Old 06-02-2012, 03:38 PM
Rigamarole Rigamarole is offline
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Some streets in DC do that. Yes, I got stopped for turning onto one of those roads after the evening direction switch.
I can see so many issues with that.

"Hmm, is it Sunday or Monday? Car clock says it's 4:30 but did I ever switch this one for DST?"

Any road signs that require drivers to keep track of multiple variables and do math in order to determine the current traffic laws are a bad, bad idea. Plus it's discriminatory against people who are poor and have broken or stolen car stereos. How are they supposed to know what time it is if they don't have some fancy electronic device to tell them? And also against the unemployed - who can remember what day of the week it is when the days don't matter?
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  #28  
Old 06-02-2012, 03:58 PM
Disposable Hero Disposable Hero is offline
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Originally Posted by KneadToKnow View Post
Pedantic it may be (I've been called worse), but you're now saying that you don't understand why the costs seem to outweigh the benefits. That's not what you said before.
Well I said that I didn't understand why such a system would be to complicated and/or expensive to implement which is another way of saying that I think the benefits to such a system would outweigh (what I perceive) to be the costs of implementing it.

But I think we're talking past each other here, I'm perfectly willing to be corrected as to why I'm wrong in assuming it wouldn't be a particularly difficult procedure to put in place, especially as it would be an adjunct to or extension of already existing systems which are recording similar data already. But when I've brought it up in real life I've been told its not feasible and have never been given any particularly compelling reason why.

Last edited by Disposable Hero; 06-02-2012 at 03:59 PM..
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  #29  
Old 06-02-2012, 05:05 PM
VOW VOW is offline
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Wow, a street that toggles between being a two-way street and a one-way street depending on the time of day? That just sounds like a bad idea all around.
Another situation caused by MONEY.

If traffic volume increases over time, the typical solution is to build another highway, or add lanes to the existing one. In built-up areas of high property values and/or historical districts, either of those two choices is impossible.

By studying the traffic flow volumes over time, engineers can see if peak volumes can be channeled over existing streets and roads. Thus, a solution of making a two-way street temporarily one-way during "rush hour" is workable. Not perfect, but workable. The direction will usually change during the opposite rush hour period.

There are overhead signs that are above each lane, in each direction, with signalization indicating if a street lane is one way or two way.

This means, for instance, all lanes for the East-bound travel will have some green marking, like an arrow, in lights. The marking going in the opposite direction would be a red "X" also in lights.

You'll have a signal controller box which will handle the lighting, just like the signals at an intersection.

Should you appear at a cross-street, you can look in each direction and see green arrows or red "X"s, indicating which way you should turn.

Yes, it's confusing. And yes, people from out-of-town will be upset and probably quite pissed off. Folks who are on auto-pilot may make a turn and then be faced with a tunnel of red "X"s and think, "Oh, shit!"

The folks who are commuting are happy they aren't sidelined by construction.

The tax payers are delighted the politicians aren't trying to pass yet ANOTHER bond measure to finance new highways.


~VOW
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  #30  
Old 06-02-2012, 08:42 PM
Leo Bloom Leo Bloom is offline
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Originally Posted by VOW View Post
Because most people think that cops have to tell the gospel truth.

"You have to come with me," is typical.

Of course, if you are a loudmouth, vulgar, especially STUPID drunk, cops will tell you whatever they have to, to bring the situation under control.


~VOW
Once you are arrested, a cop can tell you anything, and swear to it, if he feels like it.
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  #31  
Old 06-02-2012, 09:25 PM
Loach Loach is offline
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Originally Posted by Rigamarole View Post
Wow, a street that toggles between being a two-way street and a one-way street depending on the time of day? That just sounds like a bad idea all around.
We have one street like that. It's a quiet residential street that really doesn't go anywhere. But it can be used as part of a bypass of a major road which gets backed up for short periods of the day. It's used as a preventative measure to keep the street from becoming a major through way during those short periods. Its not designed to be.

Quote:
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Once you are arrested, a cop can tell you anything, and swear to it, if he feels like it.
That is false. Police officers are able to lie in certain situations but there are many strict limits.
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  #32  
Old 06-02-2012, 10:15 PM
Rampant Coypu Rampant Coypu is offline
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Totally not sure. Last time I got a warning was when I ran a red light. TX DPS car was in front in the left turn lane as I ran it. He lit up when his left turn light went green and puled out to follow me.

Here's conversation:

Do you know why I stopped you?

Yeah

You disregarded that red light.

No, I didn't disregard it. I observed the situation carefully, weighed my options, and made a deliberate choice.

He ran me for warrants and came back with a form that looked just like a ticket, but was marked "warning".

These things might be recorded but it does not seem so. I'm just glad it was DPS. Houston Police would likely have been just as chill. Harris County cops are a mixed bag. and Southside Place or Bellaire? May the gods favor you.
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  #33  
Old 06-02-2012, 11:06 PM
Leo Bloom Leo Bloom is offline
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That is false. Police officers are able to lie in certain situations but there are many strict limits.
You are right. Every so often this comes up in a thread, and I contribute this same comment. one day I'll learn...
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  #34  
Old 06-03-2012, 04:53 AM
Disposable Hero Disposable Hero is offline
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That is false. Police officers are able to lie in certain situations but there are many strict limits.
Would there be any problem with lying in the scenario above, telling someone you've stopped for speeding that there is a record that they have been spoken to and if it happens again the offence will be taken further when no such record has been made?
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  #35  
Old 06-03-2012, 06:45 AM
Darth Panda Darth Panda is offline
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Would there be any problem with lying in the scenario above, telling someone you've stopped for speeding that there is a record that they have been spoken to and if it happens again the offence will be taken further when no such record has been made?
Well, 50 sets of laws right? But I certainly can't think of any crime it would constitute or civil cause of action. Lying in general just isn't illegal, unless it's part of some actual crime, like fraud, perjury, or obstruction of justice. Since the cop gets no benefit and the driver isn't harmed, finding a traditional crime is going to be really hard. The same is true for a civil cause of action - usually the damages relate to actual damages, no damages - no cause. So, unless a state has specific laws regarding officials making false statements in an official capacity, I doubt that that particular hypo could result in any type of successful action.
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  #36  
Old 06-03-2012, 09:18 AM
RickJay RickJay is offline
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In Toronto the police can "card" you, meaning they stop you and write notes on a card about you even if you aren't arrested. The information is kept.

Several studies have been done demonstrating the "Carding" system is used almost entirely against visible minorities, in spite of which it continues, so it's kind of gross.
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  #37  
Old 06-03-2012, 02:07 PM
thelabdude thelabdude is offline
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Did a search, http://www.policemag.com/Channel/Tec...are-In-1Q.aspx Note the June 2010 date.

Looks like you can be expected to be recorded.
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  #38  
Old 06-04-2012, 12:53 AM
magnusblitz magnusblitz is offline
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I did a ride-along with CHP (California Highway Patrol) last year. Most of their work was investigating possible DUIs. A lot of times they'd pull a guy over for a traffic violation, ask a couple questions, run his license, take a quick look at their eyes (informal nystigmus test), and if they didn't appear under the influence, they'd let 'em go with a warning.

The cops would make a quick note in their log - they had to note down everything they were doing for every period of time. So it'd be lots of stuff like "2200-2230, patrolled Main Street. 2230-2235, made traffic stop resulting in warning. 2235-2245, patrolled 8th Street" etc. They'd note the license plate number of anyone they pulled over in the log; don't think they actually logged the identity of the person unless the stop turned into more than a verbal warning. Of course, they name/license number of the person would be kept in whatever computer system they use to run it, no idea if thats permanently recorded anywhere.
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