Any of you not qualified for your present position?

[BlinkingDuck]

Just got off the phone with my boss.

We are hiring for someone in my area. Usually I do the hiring but my boss is new and wants to have 'input'. Talking with some colleagues I found out this is a quirk of hers.

No problem, but she crafted the Job Ad.

I read it and immediately dive for the phone and call her. The following is a paraphrasing of the conversation

Boss...about that Job Ad...

Yes?

I don't qualify for that position and I would be the boss of this hire.

Really?

You want an MBA or a PH.D....why?

Well, the position needs it don't you think?

I don't have an MBA or a PH.D.

You don't?! I was sure you do! You act like you have one.

You do know that Bob, Joe and Susan ( 3 people that work for me) don't either, right? In fact, only one of us in this whole division has a Ph.D.

I didn't know that...

So, let's drop that requirement, fine?

Ahhh, I think we should keep it.

Do you think Bob, Joe Susan and I don't do a good job?

No, you guys are fabulous! Especially you! (I blush)

Then why would you require it?

I just think it is necessary.

Ok, Boss...I don't agree but ok. You do know the position maxes out in the budget at $60K and requires at least 3 years of related experience, right?

Yess....?

Fine, never mind. Have a good weekend!

=====

I've seen this before. I have even heard people exclaim during the hiring process that they wouldn't have qualified for the position they were first hired into if they were interviewing today...but this is the first where one wouldn't even qualify for the position in which one will be the boss of that position.

Sigh...beats head against wall.

[zoid]

I learned long ago to ignore requirements in a job ad. I pay attention to the job desctiption and duties.
If they like you and you can do the job you're in.
When I stareted in telecom among the requirements for my position was an MBA and 5 years telco experince. I had neither and I still got the job.

[Richard Pearse]

For about six years I had a job that required you to be an Australian citizen, I was only a resident. This happened because the requirements were tightened up some time after I'd joined.

[MichaelEmouse]

Blinding,

Please do a follow up on this. I'd quite like to hear about your boss' take on how things develop and how he changes his mind, if he does.

[enipla]

Me. My title – GIS Programmer/Systems Analyst (I don’t have a degree).

I’ve been in GIS (Geographic Information Systems) for 23 years. It used to be called AM/FM. Automated Mapping and Facilities Management.

“I make maps with computers” was the response I had to give when asked what I did. Mostly, I got blank stares and the subject was quickly changed. Now, at least people know what it is. Though some think GIS stands for “Google Information Search”.

When I started, there was no such degree, or even related courses in college. There weren’t even that many programmers around.

I’ve got experience I sure do, but not the degree that we/they would want if I were to get replaced. Or the two people I supervise.

[kayaker]

I once applied for a job cooking in a soon-to-open classy restaurant. I was totally honest in my interview. Never cooked in a restaurant before, not a graduate of CIA, etc.

I told the interviewer that I enjoyed cooking, was willing to work my ass off, and would be happy to start at minimum wage. He liked my attitude and hired me! It was one of the most difficult jobs I ever had, but boy did I learn a lot!

[Cicero]

I'm well qualified to be a bludger.

[Mrs. Cake]

Oh yeah. People assume I have an MBA or CPA to do my job (my third Finance Director position), but I have actually never even taken an accounting class. 20-something years ago, I got a lot of mentoring from a senior accountant who had her degree in English Literature, never took an accounting class, and spent the last 25 years of her career as CFO of a pretty big company. She taught me it ain't rocket science, keep some reference books handy, and learn it from the bookkeeping end up so it all makes sense.

It all got easier when I started to be recruited rather than having to job hunt - nobody has questioned my credentials in years.

[clairobscur]

Nothing impressive, but I had a low-level accounting job without any knowledge of accountancy. The reasoning was that since I had studied some maths, I should do OK. Maths and accountancy, that's all figures, you know?

Neither of the two people who interviewed me knew anything about accountancy. Nor did my coworkers. Nor my boss, or my boss' boss. My boss's boss's boss was the lowest in the hierarchy with an actual (and advanced) knowledge of accountancy. The lowest in the hierarchy who had a clue about what my job was, in fact. Nobody had asked her her opinion when I got the job, of course.

All in all it had its good sides. Since nobody around me knew exactly what I was doing and how I was supposed to do it, they left me pretty much alone, though from time to time someone clueless would try to tell me what I should change or improve. Basically, as long as I was providing acceptably correct figures, give or take € 1 million, at the end of each quarter, nobody cared about me showing up late, or about how much I was putting in, for instance.

My real "coworkers" where the people from the central accountancy department. And even then, contacts were sporidical, except at the end of quarters/year. They were nice and very helpful. People who worked with me were very nice too, if not helpful.

My next job was in an accountancy department. Where I was the only one (except for the three people I was supervising) who *wasn't* an accountant, and didn't do any accountancy. Oh, well...

[suranyi]

Generally, the requirements for my position include a degree in CS. I don't have one. I have a Ph.D. in physics. Fortunately, for my first serious programming job the hiring manager didn't care about details like that; in the interview she just wanted me to show that I could solve difficult problems. She later told me, "it's easier for a good problem solver to learn to program, then for a good programmer to learn how to solve problems."

[EmAnJ]

The job I'm in now required an undergrad degree, which I don't have (I have two, two year diplomas though). My awesome personality and drive is what got me hired.

Actually, I was told by my boss and co-worker, who were both in the interviews, that when they asked me why I should get the job, and I said "because I have a lot of potential", that's what clinched it.

[Tamex]

I think I technically was not qualified for my last position, because ads I've seen recently hiring for that job title at my company have required that the applicant demonstrate that he/she can lift 50 lbs. This was not a requirement when I was hired on, and it certainly was not necessary in our department...the parts we handled were usually rather small and lightweight. I would say that most of the individual packages were 1 lb. or less. If you could push a cart with wheels, you were golden. They've never posted an ad to replace me, so so I'm not sure if they would make it a requirement or not. They've tried to standardize requirements to facilitate cross-training that never actually occurs.

[notsoheavyd3]

Originally Posted by BlinkingDuck

Then why would you require it?

I just think it is necessary.

Man, if I could just have a nickle everytime I saw a manager make a decision of what's necessary not based on a reasoned decision but instead took the attitude of a 5 year old who claims "But I need it!"

I guess I should explain. I do software engineering as my career and we get this same thing there. Some nitwit will want a useless feature. We'll point out nobody is going to need it. (And point out the group in the company that wants the feature has a track record of asking for features and then turning around and never using them.) We'll point out how it'll take away time from implementing features that we recognize right now as actually being necessary and will cause the product to not work if not implemented. I've even gotten suggestions from the target audience what they actually needed and pointed this out to the manager. I empathize, it's aggravating as hell to have the people who know the most about what's actually needed get blown off by people who don't but happen to be in charge.

[panache45]

I've almost always been overqualified, until I decided to be self-employed.

[elfkin477]

I'm super qualified for my job. Maybe mostly because my job description was severely revised when I went from 20 to 32 hours a week

[hotflungwok]

I'm not. Apparently, my job calls for someone who:
- Enjoys working while people have loud conversations behind him all day long, and is told they have to listen to all the conversations in case there's something that concerns him
- Can stand there and get berated for things they didn't do because they had no way of knowing about them, have not been given any time to do them, or have actively been prevented from doing them
- Likes having what he's working on to further his career taken by his manager so they can work on it
- has no problem working with a group that's always at the bottom of the shit slope
- wants to give up their free time whenever management decides something is an emergency at the last minute, even if said free time occurs during time off scheduled months ago
- Doesn't mind having his 2 sided tempered glass desk with adjustable keyboard tray and drawers taken from him so he can work on an 8' plastic walmart folding table with 3 others

[Jack Batty]

I hold a middle-management type position at a fairly large bank. I maintain a chunk of software, run a shit-load of queries, conduct analyses that filter to bank executives, and run the quarterly goal setting program for all our branches and employees ... and I don't even have a college degree.

But I feel pretty damned qualified.

[Sicks Ate]

Originally Posted by zoid

I learned long ago to ignore requirements in a job ad. I pay attention to the job desctiption and duties.
If they like you and you can do the job you're in.
When I stareted in telecom among the requirements for my position was an MBA and 5 years telco experince. I had neither and I still got the job.

Originally Posted by EmAnJ

The job I'm in now required an undergrad degree, which I don't have (I have two, two year diplomas though). My awesome personality and drive is what got me hired.

Actually, I was told by my boss and co-worker, who were both in the interviews, that when they asked me why I should get the job, and I said "because I have a lot of potential", that's what clinched it.

This is pretty encouraging, since I got discouraged looking and finding jobs I thought I could do, but wasn't 'qualified' for on paper.

Maybe I'll bang out some resumes this weekend.

[Khadaji]

I'm currently job hunting (I want a change, I don't need one...) and am constantly amazed at many of the postings. They often are asking for everything and offering little.

But I have a friend who told me that they get 100s of applicants for every job they post at his place of work and so I guess the economy allows them to get away with asking for the world.

[BlinkingDuck]

Originally Posted by hotflungwok

- Likes having what he's working on to further his career taken by his manager so they can work on it

I have a joke at work that I know that I have come up with a good idea when a client takes credit for it. It has happened...lemmeesee...I can come up with 12 times in the past 8 years without thinking hard.

I have complained bitterly about this to my boss and my bosses boss and even once to my bosses bosses boss but they basically say that they are not going to piss off a client by bringing this up. Sigh.

The worst one was a large fortune 500 company decided to use us as their supplier and they demanded that I sign a legal form before they shared their proprietary method with me. I did this..and they sent me the method...and it was MY FRACKIN METHOD I DID FOR THEM 3 YEARS AGO!!!!! They didn't even frackin change the frackin document that frackin explained the frackin method that I FRACKIN WROTE! It was word for word identical to what I wrote 3 years ago.

I had to sign a legal document saying I wouldn't steal a method that they claimed they invented but I actually did. Grrrrrrrrrr. This sent me into a tizzy because it was really weird that they stopped using us all of a sudden 3 years ago...and it is very likely that they stopped using us because my client wanted to claim the method as his own and so cut off contact with us. I thought THIS would actually get my company to act...but no. Why should they care, they didn't steal from them, just me I guess.

We have one large client that always requests that I work on his projects...and has taken credit for no less than 5 new methods that his company now uses. I know this for a fact because he has taken credit for them while I was sitting in the room. Yet, if I was to contest him on this, I would probably be fired. I know he has noticed that my imagination/creativity has suffered on his projects during the past couple years...because he has asked my why I have dried up on new ideas

Even people in my own company have tried this...twice. THAT I descended on like a hound from hell to make sure everyone realized it was my invention.

It is so frustrating and is the least favorite part my my work world by far, so I sympathize.

[goldmund]

I'm a Systems Engineer, formerly a Systems Administrator. I've been doing IT for nearly 17 years, and I have no degree, no certifications, and no formal training. I find it's fairly common in this field, really.

[WhyNot]

I'm not. I'm not qualified on paper (they "only hire" RNs with at least two years of clinical experience, except for all of us who they hired as new grads). Worse, I'm not qualified in reality. I'm too new, and got zero training before they sent me out alone. I'm terrified every single day that something too complicated for me is going to pop up and I'm going to have no clue how to handle it. Worse, because I work in home health care, I don't have coworkers, really. That is, I can't run over to the more experienced RN on the floor and ask her opinion on this breath sound, or how to program that pump. The best I can do is call my supervisor, who is an experienced RN, but is also often an hour's car ride away and has her own caseload of patients to see.

So far, I've been very, very careful not to take any patients who aren't stable. I've also been very, very lucky. And I'm looking for a job where I can safely practice under the eye of a more experienced RN.

I literally lose sleep over this every night, but my kids insist on eating, and I have no other way to put food on the table...

[Nava]

Originally Posted by Sicks Ate

This is pretty encouraging, since I got discouraged looking and finding jobs I thought I could do, but wasn't 'qualified' for on paper.

Maybe I'll bang out some resumes this weekend.

I'm not qualified for my job. Certified, that is. There's a running joke in the sector that the ones with the certs tend to be the ones who produce the worst results: they do things by a book which is very, very badly written.

Diplomas are a shorthand way to say "this person has XYZ knowledge", but the real qualification is the knowledge.

[Tapioca Dextrin]

Not directly related to the discussion, but I remember, from way back in 1996, a job ad for a programmer. It required at least three years experience using Java.

SPOILER:

Java wasn't released in any form before 1995

[Senegoid]

Originally Posted by Tapioca Dextrin

Not directly related to the discussion, but I remember, from way back in 1996, a job ad for a programmer. It required at least three years experience using Java.

Likewise, the "word on the street", back in the day that the IBM PC was first unveiled upon the world, was that companies immediately began advertising for programmers with 5 years experience programming the IBM PC.

[Raguleader]

Strictly speaking, I'm not qualified for my current job as NCOIC (the sergeant who runs everything) in my office. What it basically comes down to is that for whatever reason, there is a rank gap in my career field that seems to cut off right around the point where folks finish their first enlistment and have an opportunity to get out of the military or apply for another job speciality, and so I am the next-best-thing to someone of the rank and experience to fill a chair that needs filling.

The joys of serving in the Armed Forces. It's an Adventure! An Adventure that comes with free dental and a strict dress code.

Anyhow, I *am* getting trained (some might call it a "Crash Course") in my job responsibilities, which includes getting trained in other sections that I don't technically work in, because my career specialty can also be slotted into those positions. So by next month, I will be marginally qualified for my own job, and qualified for someone else's too .

[Raguleader]

Originally Posted by Tapioca Dextrin

Not directly related to the discussion, but I remember, from way back in 1996, a job ad for a programmer. It required at least three years experience using Java.

SPOILER:

Java wasn't released in any form before 1995

Maybe they wanted someone who could do coffee runs?

[Kyrie Eleison]

Originally Posted by BlinkingDuck

I've seen this before. I have even heard people exclaim during the hiring process that they wouldn't have qualified for the position they were first hired into if they were interviewing today...but this is the first where one wouldn't even qualify for the position in which one will be the boss of that position.

You don't realize that this is common? If it weren't, any organization which had a position that required a PhD would have to be run by a CEO with a PhD. In fact, the CEO would have to meet every requirement for every position in the company. He'd have to be a PhD in engineering with 4 years experience in HR, have worked in custodial services for 3 years, be certified in ISO 9000 training, have 4 years experience in corporate event planning, etc.

[Little Nemo]

Originally Posted by Raguleader

The joys of serving in the Armed Forces. It's an Adventure! An Adventure that comes with free dental and a strict dress code.

Anyhow, I *am* getting trained (some might call it a "Crash Course") in my job responsibilities, which includes getting trained in other sections that I don't technically work in, because my career specialty can also be slotted into those positions. So by next month, I will be marginally qualified for my own job, and qualified for someone else's too .

I've read that there are high-level courses for Admirals and Generals who have advanced to the stage in their career where they are put in command of joint-service forces. Somebody like Eisenhower or Nimitz can end up in a position where they're commanding thousands of professionals in a service they've never been in. So they take courses that are essentially "Remedial Army" or "Navy 101" or "Air Force for Beginners".

[TruCelt]

Oh no, not even remotely. My job is one normally done by those with a law degree who don't like the partnership atmosphere. Me - studied programming part time for a while, never quite finished a bahcelor's degree.

So, except for those 24 years' experience and the incredibly successful past performance, I don't qualify in the least. LOL!

[Rich G7subs]

Originally Posted by hotflungwok

I'm not. Apparently, my job calls for someone who:
- Enjoys working while people have loud conversations behind him all day long, and is told they have to listen to all the conversations in case there's something that concerns him
- Can stand there and get berated for things they didn't do because they had no way of knowing about them, have not been given any time to do them, or have actively been prevented from doing them
- Likes having what he's working on to further his career taken by his manager so they can work on it
- has no problem working with a group that's always at the bottom of the shit slope
- wants to give up their free time whenever management decides something is an emergency at the last minute, even if said free time occurs during time off scheduled months ago
- Doesn't mind having his 2 sided tempered glass desk with adjustable keyboard tray and drawers taken from him so he can work on an 8' plastic walmart folding table with 3 others

You don't have a red stapler, do you?

[hotflungwok]

Originally Posted by Rich G7subs

You don't have a red stapler, do you?

Hell no. Our new 'desks' aren't big enough to hold something that takes up that much space.

[Chefguy]

I'm just barely qualified to be retired. I don't have hobbies, I avoid "adult education" classes, I don't live in Arizona or Florida or some other excruciating shithole, I detest golf and I don't wear white sneakers. On the other hand, the pay matches my resume.

[BlinkingDuck]

Update.

HR has questioned the Ad saying that the budget allocation would not allow for a reasonable hire of a person with those qualifications. They have questioned the need for these new qualifications as they have never been part of the position before.



I know HR departments get a bum rap...but ours really does do some things well.

Not touching this one. My boss can answer this.

[Agent Foxtrot]

I write large and complex architecture and construction contracts for a large metropolitan hospital. I also manage the purchase orders required to pay for the work as a result of said contracts. I don't have a law or finance degree, much less a bachelor's, but I feel like I should have at least the latter.

Am I underqualified? No. Do they entrust me with a large amount of responsibility usually reserved for a mid-to-upper-level manager? You bet.

[Loach]

I am currently seated. I am very qualified for this position.

[Omar Little]

Originally Posted by BlinkingDuck

Update.

HR has questioned the Ad saying that the budget allocation would not allow for a reasonable hire of a person with those qualifications. They have questioned the need for these new qualifications as they have never been part of the position before.



I know HR departments get a bum rap...but ours really does do some things well.

Not touching this one. My boss can answer this.

If you work it right your entire department could be getting raises!!

[BlinkingDuck]

Originally Posted by Omar Little

If you work it right your entire department could be getting raises!!

Ahh, no. In my OP I was subtley pointing out that meh boss was being unreasonable with the salary allocated and her increase in qualifications. No raises..but HR will force the elimination of my bosses inflation in requirements...I know my company

As an aside, the company I work for is known for being tough on their employees work-wise and expectations. However, they also pay above 'standard' wages. They have stated many times that they want to be a 'destination' company for people to work at and 'want to come here during the prime of their careers'. To their credit, they do walk the talk...except for internal promotions which is something I ranted on here before.

[etv78]

Originally Posted by Rich G7subs

You don't have a red stapler, do you?

I'm going to have to ask you to move your stuff downstairs.