Tell me about telescopes.

[enipla]

I live very high in the mountains, far from any city lights. It’s time I take advantage of that.

I’ve always had an interest in astronomy, and would like to do some star gazing.

I’d like something to view the planets, and perhaps be able to pick out galaxies.

So, could I find something in the $300-$500 range that isn’t a piece of crap?

What type? Reflector or refractor. Wiki describes them but I don’t see the different advantages.

[Athena]

You want a Dobsonian if you want the most bang-for-the-buck. They're not sexy, but they work, and you probably can pick up a used one in the price range you're talking.

You're best bet is to find a local star party and go hang out there for a while. People will have a variety of different telescopes and are generally VERY happy to talk about them. Plus you can try out the different types of scopes and see what you like.

And you're right, you're gonna get some GREAT views up there. Heck, we got good views in our backyard in the Boulder/Longmont area. Definitely saw planets, galaxies, and even smaller stuff.

[Grey]

I've got an 8" Dob and it's pretty great. I don't find it too hard to move around and the views can be really good. I do wish I knew more about how to optimize my viewing but the Moon, Orion Nebula and the clusters I could find from my driveway in Ottawa were great. Yours will likely be fantastic.

It also gave me a chance to ask for a big solar filter for Christmas which worked out great this year. Even I can find the sun.

[ducati]

I've got a bit of everything for different viewing, but Athena's right. Aperture is king, and the best value on aperture is a Dobsonian.

Take a look at this introduction and browse the website and get a better idea of what you'd like to get. A local astronomy club is an excellent resource for learning and getting equipment.

Also, people tend to get bored with scopes, so look at Craigslist or Ebay for bargains.

Your main brands to consider are Meade and Celestron, but the Orion house brand is perfectly acceptable as well.

[enipla]

Thanks all. Great link Ducati. I'll look at the Dobs. They seem kinda big and awkward though.

I have two 14,000 foot peaks that make up the other side of the valley I'm above, and would like to look at wildlife and stuff on them too.

I've got my eye on a 6" Orion Newtonian reflector

[N9IWP]

Note that that is 5.1", not 6"

I've got an 8" Orion Dob (older model). A little cumbersome to transport in a car, but quick to set up.

Brian

[enipla]

Originally Posted by N9IWP

Note that that is 5.1", not 6"

I've got an 8" Orion Dob (older model). A little cumbersome to transport in a car, but quick to set up.

Brian

Thanks I noticed that after I posted. 130mm.

[Athena]

You are kinda running into the "piece of crap" range when you're talking $300 brand-new price. They're hard to collimate, if you do manage to get it collimated, it doesn't hold, the mounts are rickety, bad mirrors, etc. If you need to keep it that low, really, look at the used market. You can find good deals at www.astromart.com, for example.

If you want to do wildlife viewing, be aware that any scope that's good for astronomy is going to be crap for closer wildlife viewing. If you're talking miles away across the valley, they'll be OK (and that's what it sort of sounds like you're doing?)

Dobsonians are going to be bad for wildlife viewing if only because you'd probably have to be laying on the ground to look through the viewfinder. They are slightly big & awkward, but they just work. It's just one of those things where the Big Ugly Thing actually performs the best and tends to be inexpensive as well.

This guy looks pretty good, but it's a little outside your price range new. A used one would be miles above the Orion you linked, though, and might be in the same price range.

Really, go to a star party and look through people's scopes before you buy. They're really fun, and you'll get a much better idea about what is what.

[jharvey963]

A couple of (egad!) decades ago I worked for Orion Telescopes. (I was also married for a short time to the Meade Instruments owner's sister, but that's another story.)

I have a very high opinion of Orion, even after all of these years. You'll find them to be honest and friendly and very knowledgeable. Do as others suggested, and browse their website for a lot of introductory material.

Good Luck,
J.

[Max Torque]

I've had this tabletop model on my wishlist for a while, mainly because I hate dealing with tripods, and I'd like a scope that can tell me where to find the cool stuff, because I suck at locating it manually. They get bigger and bigger as you get willing to spend more.

[N9IWP]

I also am contracually obligated to mention binoculars, as theey are a great into to astronomy and can be used for birdwatching and stuff I have these -- I like the eye releif (you don't need to mash the lenses into your eye)

Brian

[Jbone]

I'm new to telescopes myself. Back in February of this year is when i got interested. I found a local society/club and started going to their meetings and viewing nights and enjoyed it very much. I purchased an Orian SpaceProbe 3" equatorial mount reflector. It was very easy to setup, but I had no idea how to find much more than the moon/Venus/Jupiter at that time of year. At the first viewing party I brought it too, they were looking at Saturn. I figured that my little scope couldn't see that, but was I ever wrong! It was a bit hard with the 25mm lense, but the 10mm would let me see Saturn, and the rings pretty clearly. I knew right then that I needed something bigger. I have been dragging my feet, but plan to sell it soon and get a 4.5" reflector (I'm an equatorial mount kind of guy right now).

A few of our members do have the Orion dobs, and I'm quite fond of them. My current goal is to upgrade to the 4.5", but down the road save up enough for a 10" dob or bigger. I would also recommend Orion scopes. I must say though that most of this comes from reviews on Amazon (I've read tons). Orion seems to get high marks across the board. Celestron's reviews seemed hit-and-miss, though one of our members has a 6" and claims that he has had no problems with it.
Good luck and clear skies to you!

[ducati]

While aperture is king for deep-sky objects, if you have a 30" Obsession that you never take out, what's the point?

My first suggestion is a minimum of 10" reflector, whether its a Dob or Newtonian.
If you can't find galaxies and nebula, you'll be disappointed and quit.

My other suggestion is a Meade ETX or similar. I found a 125mm on my local Craigslist for 600. Benefits are:
computer controlled- you can find anything.
Small and portable -easy to set up anywhere anytime..
Easy to attach a camera for photos.
Useful for terrestrial viewing - birdwatching, neighbor watching, forest fire watching, and more.

Don't get anything until you test some at a club or star party. Unless you're like me.
I don't believe in delayed gratification!

[Xema]

Originally Posted by enipla

I have two 14,000 foot peaks that make up the other side of the valley I'm above, and would like to look at wildlife and stuff on them too.

Then you should probably take a serious look at image-stabilized binocs. They are excellent for casual astronomy, and unbeatable for wildlife viewing and birdwatching.

[crowmanyclouds]

I'll second Astromart, at least from my experience with it 10 years ago, when I got a great deal on a 12.5 truss tube Dob with an exotic mirror (ASM black vitreous ceramic primary, 1/15^th wave - f/5.6 - 1,810mm fl).

Something to consider, there's a reason used smaller aperture scopes are easy to find. The first time you go to a nice dark sky spot with your 6 or 8 inch scope, and happen upon another dude with a 10 or 12 inch and they offer to let you have a peek at something cool, you'll understand why "aperture is king" and get bitten by the light-bucket bug, and that's almost always the reason those smaller scopes are being sold.

Now getting a less expensive, small aperture scope, isn't a bad idea so you can really be certain that you enjoy being outside on a 20° January night. Hot muggy August nights and cold fogged over glass is much more annoying than freezing your ass off with perfect skies!

I can't recommend this one thing above every thing else, if you can find a larger aperture truss tube Dob in anything close your price range buy it and avoid solid tube scopes at all costs. There's nothing that inherently bad about solid tubes in general, they can be annoying on cool nights if your primary isn't close to the outside temperature, convection currents in the tube are really annoying.

Fully assembled my 12.5 is about 6 feet tall, but broken down (three pieces; mirror box and rocker, secondary cage, and the bag of truss poles) it fits in the back seat/trunk of pretty much any car. Above a certain size a tube scope require a SUV and a 5 or 6 foot tube can be a little difficult for one person to maneuver.

CMC fnord!

[enipla]

Thanks for all the info.

Next question. One of the reasons I’ve become more interested is Google Sky. I have it on my Android. While I’m sure it’s enough for me to locate planets, it also shows where Messier objects are. Would this be enough to get me pointed in the right direction to find things?

I’m wondering about getting a computer controlled scope, and also wonder if half the fun is hunting stuff down (when you basically know where they are).

And for the record, I’m not a person that buys used. Just the way I am.

[Grey]

You want to look into Stellarium for sky viewing or planning. It's great.

[Max Torque]

Originally Posted by enipla

Thanks for all the info.

Next question. One of the reasons I’ve become more interested is Google Sky. I have it on my Android. While I’m sure it’s enough for me to locate planets, it also shows where Messier objects are. Would this be enough to get me pointed in the right direction to find things?

I’m wondering about getting a computer controlled scope, and also wonder if half the fun is hunting stuff down (when you basically know where they are).

And for the record, I’m not a person that buys used. Just the way I am.

On the "half the fun is hunting stuff down" deal: you may feel differently, but I'm not too keen on spending my telescope time like this:

"Okay, that bright spot there is Jupiter, let's see if I can dial it in."

(sets up scope)

(locates terrestrial object to fine-tune finder scope)

(swings scope toward Jupiter and locks in)

(looks through finder scope and fiddles with three or four levers to make the Jupiter dot appear in the middle)

"Aha, got it! Now let's see...."

(looks through scope, sees nothing)

(tweaks levers a tiny bit in case it's just a wee bit off, continues to see nothing)

"Hm. Let's try this again...."

(Re-tunes finder scope on an even more distant terrestrial object)

(Re-swings scope toward Jupiter, re-locks down scope)

(Looks through finder scope, more lever fiddling)

"Finally, let's observe the wonders of the universe...."

(leg bumps tripod)

"FFFFFFUUUUUUUUUU....."

----

Which is how I do things presently.

[Yeticus Rex]

Another happy Orion 8" Dob Owner chiming in. Besides getting a 25mm lens, also get a 9 or 10mm, and a solar filter for viewing the Sun when there are no stars to view...except the Sun.

[billfish678]

A few comments.

A 12 to 14 inch scope is where things in the sky other than planets start to actually look good vs "I think I can see it". Though a scope that big is going to be outside your price range.

As others have said, join local astronomy clubs and definitely go to their star parties. You will find out how things work and how things actually look through a telescope.

A computer controlled telescope requires several things. An idea of what to expect when you are looking at what you are trying to look at. An ability to work with the telescope enough to use it properly. Enough knowledge of the sky to easily set it up so the computer system to work. By the time you can do all that, you really don't NEED a computer control system.

Which brings up another point. IMO some of the fun IS the ability to find stuff without using a computer controlled computer.

[terentii]

Originally Posted by ducati

My first suggestion is a minimum of 10" reflector, whether its a Dob or Newtonian.

If I'm not mistaken ... doesn't Dobsonian refer to the mount and Newtonian to the optical system?

I agree as to the mirror size: get the largest you can afford. It's light-gathering ability you're interested in, not magnification.

For a reflector, Newtonian is the simplest and most affordable optical system.

I have a fondness for equatorial/horseshoe mounts, but they're best confined to permanent observatories. Dobsonian mounts are much easier to drag in and out of the garage.

What I don't like about Dobsonians is not being able to use setting circles to find deep-sky objects. But, hey, life is full of trade-offs.

I really want a good scope with a tubular frame. We had one at my college's observatory, and it was great!

[Ken001]

My two cents.

I've been fascinated by space and the heavens since I was a schoolboy. Still, I've hardly ever used a telescope. I wanted to but seldom found the opportunity.

Now that I'm middleaged I can afford my own telescope and set about the quest. I joined my local astronomical society and learned much wisdom from the greybeards there. Their advice and my own conclusions -

1. Wearing glasses limited my ability to see through a telescope. No glasses delivered a few seconds of clarity but then my eye watered and everything degraded.
2. Dobsonian telescopes are very good.
3. Dobsonians aren't easy for local (ground) viewing because the human brain struggles to accept an image at right angles.
4. Keen amateur astronomers do use good quality binoculars and/or spotting scopes. When you understand what you are looking for, you don't really need mega power. Especially within the Solar System

I bought a small Dobsonian and it has sat unused. I far prefer to do my astronomy on the interweb and through reading books. The Hubble images available are breathtaking especially when you understand just how deep is the Deep Field.

Nevertheless I echo the encouragement to go to star parties. You'll meet interesting intelligent people and learn much.

[Athena]

Originally Posted by Ken001

[*]Wearing glasses limited my ability to see through a telescope. No glasses delivered a few seconds of clarity but then my eye watered and everything degraded.

??

Most viewfinders have a "glasses" and "no glasses" mode, where the rubber cup that surrounds the opening rolls up for "no glasses" and stays down for "glasses". Mr. Athena wears glasses and is blind as a bat without them, and has spent many, many hours with his telescopes. He's never reported any issues other than complaining when I came to take a look and messed up his viewfinder by rolling up the eyecups so my non-glasses eyes could see through it.

[ducati]

Originally Posted by terentii

If I'm not mistaken ... doesn't Dobsonian refer to the mount and Newtonian to the optical system?

You are correct of course. I was just trying to keep terms simple and match what the OP would see in a catalog or website. Dobs would be separate from equatorial and A/A mounts, but the category for the latter would often be referred to as Newtonian reflectors, and then further reading would expose the OP to the differences and options.

I was hoping he would do some learning on his own!

[Mr. Miskatonic]

If glasses are an issue then consider getting a couple of long eye relief eyepieces. Orion sells a couple of eyepiece lines. It will be worth it if your eyes are watering.

[billfish678]

A question for the OP. If you decide you really like this astronomy stuff, how much money could you "afford" to spend in the next year or three on it?

[Mr. Miskatonic]

Originally Posted by jharvey963

A couple of (egad!) decades ago I worked for Orion Telescopes. (I was also married for a short time to the Meade Instruments owner's sister, but that's another story.)

I have a very high opinion of Orion, even after all of these years. You'll find them to be honest and friendly and very knowledgeable. Do as others suggested, and browse their website for a lot of introductory material.

Good Luck,
J.

Was that when Orion was still mostly selling other brands?

[Quartz]

Originally Posted by crowmanyclouds

Fully assembled my 12.5 is about 6 feet tall, but broken down (three pieces; mirror box and rocker, secondary cage, and the bag of truss poles) it fits in the back seat/trunk of pretty much any car. Above a certain size a tube scope require a SUV and a 5 or 6 foot tube can be a little difficult for one person to maneuver.

Don't they have tube telescopes which ahem telescope?

[billfish678]

Yes they do. But they are pain in the ass to make. A take apartable truss "tube" design is much better all around.

[enipla]

Originally Posted by billfish678

A question for the OP. If you decide you really like this astronomy stuff, how much money could you "afford" to spend in the next year or three on it?

If I really got into it, I could certainly drop $1000 on another scope. Maybe more.

Thanks for all the info folks. I have purchased the 5" Orion. I like the idea of it's better portability and it should be easier for viewing the mountains accross the valley. I can always upgrade.

[ducati]

for viewing the mountains across the way, your image will be reversed and off-vertical.
a star diaganol or erecting prism can put the image back properly. do some research on what works how and you'll be able to spot those coeds mountains right side up and left-to-right proper!

what, we're not gonna do everything for you!

[enipla]

Thanks. Will do. I forgot about that whole image rotation and reversal.

When I first moved up here, my brother bought me a VERY cheap telescope. Refractor. Cardboard tube, with a cheap wood tripod. Kept it for a while just to be nice.

The Orion is going to be a huge step up from that. I may get really into it. I think it's enough of a scope to get me interested.

Now the Dob looks good, but I don't like the size, or the base. I may change my mind.

For friends coming during a cookout or some such thing and we have a peak at a planet, I think the standard tripod would be better to set up on a gravel drive or 'yard' away from any house lights and the vibration from folks walking around on the deck.

We'll see. Pun intended It'll be a few weeks before I can get it set up and have time to look and evaluate. I will come back to let you all know what I think from a newbie.

[billfish678]

Hey enipla. I wanted to give a few pointers but am pretty busy. But for now I'll just give you this link before I forget to do it. Here is a forum and maybe THE forum for astronomy and telescope related stuff. Great place to get educated and advised.

http://www.cloudynights.com/ubbthrea...reads.php?Cat=

[Kevbo]

nm

[Yeticus Rex]

Originally Posted by enipla

For friends coming during a cookout or some such thing and we have a peak at a planet, I think the standard tripod would be better to set up on a gravel drive or 'yard' away from any house lights and the vibration from folks walking around on the deck.

We'll see. Pun intended It'll be a few weeks before I can get it set up and have time to look and evaluate. I will come back to let you all know what I think from a newbie.

Do take the time during the day to collimate (great youtube video from Orion) your mirrors, and then line up your finder scope on a distant target (for me, there is a mountain with a flag on top about 2 or 3 miles away that I focus set my finder scope on), so when you take your scope out at night, you will look like a pro when slewing that dob around at various targets and you will have tight points of light in your eyepiece.

Saturn and Mars is out in the early evening now.....Mars is an orange "meh" in my 8", but Saturn was very impressive and my wife and her friend had mental orgasms seeing that planet. Another easy target is Mizar and Alcor, the middle "star" in the handle of the Big Dipper which is a double double Binary system (but now seems to have a total of 6 stars in the system). Also pointing along vast stretches of the Milky Way will bring out the WOW in most people.

[jharvey963]

Originally Posted by Mr. Miskatonic

Was that when Orion was still mostly selling other brands?

At that time they were just beginning to sell their own stuff. They had Orion branded lenses (eyepieces) and were just beginning to build their own Dobsonian telescopes.

J.

[Mr. Miskatonic]

Originally Posted by jharvey963

At that time they were just beginning to sell their own stuff. They had Orion branded lenses (eyepieces) and were just beginning to build their own Dobsonian telescopes.

J.

Cool. Did you know Eric Kopit? I think he was an engineer at that time.