The King is dead. (Rodney King dead at 47)

[KneadToKnow]

Originally Posted by stpauler

I thought bodies floated when they were dead, or is that just after they start to decompose?

This staff report addresses the factors related to sinking/floating bodies.

[Leaper]

Originally Posted by PlainJain

I agree and said so in my penultimate post. My previous post was specifically responding to the claim that...

I get that. I still don't think that there's anything "just" (as in "only," the same way you meant it) about being "just overly brutal" to anyone, even scumbags.

[Acsenray]

Originally Posted by PlainJain

Are you sure about that? Or were they just overly brutal with drug addicts, petty criminals, and lowlifes? I don't keep up but I never heard of any examples of decent citizens being targeted.

You don't recall Crash, Rampart? So long as you define "decent" as "white" and "drug addicts, petty criminals, and lowlifes" as "all black and Hispanic youths," then you're pretty much right. The L.A.P.D. basically ran a police state in minority neighborhoods enforced with random brutality and frameups. As a bonus, some of were even running their own drug trafficking operations. The Rodney King trial revealed evidence of a faction of cops who engaged in beatings as a form of entertainment.

[MeanOldLady]

I perhaps need to take a vacation from this board, as the scumminess that comes out of you people is sometimes barely even understandable.

Anyway, I remember that shitty trial and the ensuing riots that engulfed my neighborhood like it was yesterday. Bad times. Ah well.

[Washoe]

Originally Posted by Washoe

Well, we could dredge up all the 20-year-old jokes—

Originally Posted by Acsenray

The L.A.P.D. basically ran a police state in minority neighborhoods enforced with random brutality and frameups.

Dammit, I forgot the best one: have you heard the LAPD’s new motto? “We’ll treat you like a King.”

[Siam Sam]

Originally Posted by ducati

Why? Seriously? Let's jump in the Way-Back machine, shall we?


July 27, 1987: According to a complaint filed by his wife, King beat her while she was sleeping, then dragged her outside the house and beat her again. King was charged with battery and pleaded "no contest."

November 3, 1989: King, brandishing a tire iron, ordered a convenience store clerk to empty the cash register. The clerk grabbed the tire iron, causing King to fall backwards and knock over a pie rack. King swung the rack at the clerk and fled the store with $200. King was arrested and charged with assault with a deadly weapon, second-degree robbery, and intent to commit great bodily injury.

March 3, 1991: After being seen speeding on the 210 freeway by CHP officers, King led them on a chase at speeds estimated at up to 110 to 115 mph. When finally stopped, King refused requests to get into the prone position and appeared to charge one of the officers. He was beaten and arrested. King was charged with felony evading.

May 11, 1991: King was pulled over for having an excessively tinted windshield.

May 28, 1991: King picked up a transvestite prostitute in Hollywood who happened to be under surveillance by LAPD officers. King and the prostitute were observed in an alley engaging in sexual activity. When the prostitute spotted the officers, King sped away, nearly hitting one of them.

June 26, 1992: King's second wife reported to police that King had hit her and she feared for her life. King was handcuffed and taken to a police station, but his wife then decided against pressing charges.

July 16, 1992: King was arrested at 1:40 A.M. for driving while intoxicated.

August 21, 1993: King crashed into a wall near a downtown Los Angeles nightclub. He had a blood alcohol level of 0.19. King was charged with violating his parole and sent for sixty day to an alcohol treatment center. He was also convicted on the DUI charge and ordered to perform twenty days of community service

May 21, 1995: King was arrested for DUI while on a trip to Pennsylvania. King failed field sobriety tests, but refused to submit to a blood test

July 14, 1995: King got into an argument with his wife while he was driving, pulled off the freeway and ordered her out of the car. When she started to get out, King sped off, leaving her on the highway with a bruised arm. King was charged with assault with a deadly weapon (his car), reckless driving, spousal abuse, and hit-and-run.

March 3, 1999: King allegedly injured the sixteen-year-old girl that he had fathered out of wedlock when he was seventeen, as well as the girl's mother. King was arrested for injuring the woman, the girl, and for vandalizing property. King claimed that the incident was simply "a family misunderstanding."

September 29, 2001: King was arrested for indecent exposure and use of the hallucinogenic drug PCP.

August 27, 2003, King was arrested again for speeding and running a red light while under the influence of alcohol. He failed to yield to police officers and slammed his vehicle into a house, breaking his pelvis

March 3, 2011, King was stopped by Los Angeles police for driving erratically. He was issued a citation for driving with an expired license. This arrest led to his February 2012 misdemeanor conviction for reckless driving

Today: King's fiancée is telling friends King had been drinking and even smoked weed in the hours just before his death.


Rodney King was an unrepentent, criminal piece of shit who robbed and beat whoever he felt like, drove drunk numerous times - that he was caught, and was a danger to society. When given a lawful order by police officers, 3 of the 4 people in King's car that fateful night complied immediately. King chose to fight instead. He was subdued with the force necessary to obtain his compliance and effect an arrest.

His videotaped arrest helped to widen even more the racial gap that exists, erasing decades of progress towards bringing races together. The resulting riots simply illustrate this, not to mention costing a billion dollars and 53 deaths. I submit to you that had King simply complied with a lawful arrest instead of engaging in a life-threatening high speed chase and fight, none of that would have happened.

His actions throughout his life show a complete disregard for authority, order, and anyone's life but his own. He should have been removed from society decades ago.

Fuck him.

The King is dead. Long die the King.

[billfish678]

Originally Posted by Martin Hyde

I think he may have even had most/all of his utilities turned off.

Not the water apparently.

[PlainJain]

Originally Posted by Acsenray

You don't recall Crash, Rampart? So long as you define "decent" as "white" and "drug addicts, petty criminals, and lowlifes" as "all black and Hispanic youths," then you're pretty much right. The L.A.P.D. basically ran a police state in minority neighborhoods enforced with random brutality and frameups.

I do remember the Crash unit corruption but as I say I didn't follow it closely. If they did regularly target innocent minorities, I capitulate the point. Regardless, painting them as worse doesn't make King a good person. He was a violent, repeat offending criminal and a real danger to society.

[Siam Sam]

He was found at the "bottom of a swimming pool." I'm curious why he wasn't floating. Did someone chain something heavy to him?

BBC is mentioning that his fiancee was one of the jurors in his civil case. That's interesting too.

[billfish678]

Originally Posted by Siam Sam

He was found at the "bottom of a swimming pool." I'm curious why he wasn't floating. Did someone chain something heavy to him?

I think it had something to do with the fact he was a drain on society.

[Gatopescado]

Too bad pools don't flush.

[Nunzio Tavulari]

This promotes the stereotype that victims of beatings can't swim.

[Mr. Excellent]

King was a deeply flawed guy - I don't know of anyone who would deny that. But - at the height of the riots, he went on television and made a very public, very emotional call for calm. "Can't we all get along?" By all accounts, the man was genuinely appalled by the violence, and did what he could to end it. That can't have seemed the safest possible option; would have been easy enough to do nothing at all.

I don't think I'd have liked Rodney King. But along with all the wretched parts of his character, he did seem to care about acting decently, and he did some good work in that regard. He's dead, and thus past caring, but I've a measure of respect for the man; he was a better person a week ago than he was twenty years ago, and a better person twenty years ago than anyone would have expected. Some people are shit; for all the genuinely shifty stuff King did, I would not call him that.

[GuanoLad]

Please stop quoting ducati's entire post. Three times is enough.

[dnooman]

Rosa Parks made a statement, based on her actions, regarding civil rights. She became a civil rights icon, and for good reason.

Rodney King was made into an icon based on what happened to him.

The beatings he endured were savage, and were videotaped. Even for someone resisting arrest, I think the beatings were too much.

The police trials and the subsequent riots were a result of a media frenzy. Riots only happen when people are motivated, and the media did that as best they could. Live coverage with helicopters, live news events, it spread like wildfire. Innocent people died during that, and there is no excuse for that.

The only thing that died today was a scumbag felon that liked to do whatever the fuck he wanted, damn the circumstances. He was no Ghandi or Parks, or Theresa, he was a shitball criminal.

What happened to him is another thread entirely. He was always a menace to society.

[Musicat]

Is there any independent corroboration that ducati's lengthy post of King's actions is accurate? I find pieces of it all over the Web, but haven't spotted any "official" source.

[mhendo]

Originally Posted by dnooman

He was no Ghandi or Parks, or Theresa...

I'm glad you cleared that up. That will certainly give pause to all the people in this thread who have been comparing him to those people.

Oh, wait, nobody has been doing that.

[Hippy Hollow]

I had the same feeling of disgust as MeanOldLady reading this thread.

I think one of the measures of how civilized a society is, is how the least powerful, and indeed, the least... well-behaved?... are treated.

Despite his many transgressions I think it's a callous, inhumane thing to deliver the parting shot "fuck him" or those variants. I believe in the power of repentance and forgiveness. Perhaps Rodney King had, or was in the process of making amends for his mistakes in the past. I don't know, and it's likely that none of us on this board know that, either.

The early 1990s demonstrated to me in vivid detail that there are very different experiences for Black and White people in the criminal justice system, if I had been even slightly inclined to believe that justice is blind. In fact, Mr. Excellent's point of how King, in his own way, made an appeal for peace. He didn't have to do that, and I remember he was mocked in many quarters for doing so. However, a day after his appeal, the riots were essentially over. I'm not saying he ended the riots single handedly, but it likely had an impact.

Upon reading his Wikipedia entry, it seems apparent that King had a lifelong struggle with chemical dependency, which had terrible consequences throughout his life.

[Bryan Ekers]

Well, the increasing availability of video cameras suggests to me that if it hadn't been King, footage of some other whale-a-thon would have outraged the public and such. I'm not particularly sympathetic to King, but the LAPD needed a good chain-yank.

[dnooman]

Originally Posted by mhendo

I'm glad you cleared that up. That will certainly give pause to all the people in this thread who have been comparing him to those people.

Oh, wait, nobody has been doing that.

They have not. Nor has anyone called him a martyr, but we need to see this as it is.

A habitual criminal died today. Many habitual criminals died today, but this one gained public attention.

Tell me how his death is different from any of the others?

[YogSosoth]

Originally Posted by Acsenray

Actually, he was savagely beaten by three to six police officers who were acting under the color of authority. Some of these were officers who engaged in rampant brutality as a routine component of their exercise of their duties. Rodney King was a run-of-the-mill drug addict, petty criminal, and lowlife. However, these officers were part of a governmental organization, one authorized by the state to use force in order to protect the populace, that instead used its power to brutalize hundreds or thousands of people and punish them extra-judicially. That makes them far, far worse than Rodney King. So if one's reaction to news of King's death is "fuck him, good riddance," it should be far more extreme upon hearing of the deaths of Daryl Gates, Stacey Koon, and the like. King was an ordinary lowlife. The people who beat him and the superiors who oversaw their brutality were extra-ordinary scum. King did the entire country a favor in his role exposing them and ending their reign of terror. For that, we should thank him rather than curse him.

That's what I think. King was a nobody and a petty criminal, but the assault on him by the cops and the exposure of the evil that was within the LAPD and those in authority made up for whatever little evils he ever did. King needed to exist for the system to be cleaned up

[mhendo]

Originally Posted by dnooman

They have not. Nor has anyone called him a martyr, but we need to see this as it is.

You really are very good at setting people straight about arguments that they have never made.

Kudos to you!

[Odesio]

I'm a little surprised that his death has served as a catalyst for some much vitriol. No, King wasn't a good person. So far as criminals go he wasn't even a particularly bad one. I see no reason to cheer his death and I honestly hope he didn't suffer very much.

[billfish678]

Originally Posted by YogSosoth

That's what I think. King was a nobody and a petty criminal, but the assault on him by the cops and the exposure of the evil that was within the LAPD and those in authority made up for whatever little evils he ever did. King needed to exist for the system to be cleaned up

No he did not. Some random, most likely minority or down and out white person needed to cross the LAPD at the right time and place to get videod and cause a scandal in order to get it cleaned up.

I'll give King credit that once he started the shit storm (by being a shit head) he did have one moment of "doing the right thing" a short time later by his appeal to the public. The LAPD was probably a bunch of shit heads. But it wasn't a requirement that a general low life criminal/fuckup was NEEDED to show them to be such. And even if it was, the fuckupedness of the LAPD doesn't somehow absolve his fuckeupedness.

If Tony Soprano hires a guy to burn a building and then realizes there are OMG orphans in there and then goes in to save them I ain't give ole Tony any medals.

[mhendo]

Originally Posted by billfish678

And even if it was, the fuckupedness of the LAPD doesn't somehow absolve his fuckeupedness.

Another person who's awesome at rebutting arguments that no-one has made.

[billfish678]

Originally Posted by mhendo

Another person who's awesome at rebutting arguments that no-one has made.

This from someone who posted this:

"Hanging, drawing, and quartering was too good for this man! Put him in the brazen bull, i say. "

Yeah people MADE that arguement too didnt they?

Or did you mean fabulous?

[mhendo]

Originally Posted by billfish678

This from someone who posted this:

"Hanging, drawing, and quartering was too good for this man! Put him in the brazen bull, i say. "

I assume you're joking.

Mmmm. Perhaps not.

Here, happy to help

[Zebra]

Originally Posted by Farmer Jane

He was quite a fuck up. I can't believe he never killed anyone with his drunk-driving ways. How the hell did he still have a license?!

Doesn't CA have a three strikes law?

[billfish678]

Its not as black and white as one would expect.

[dnooman]

Originally Posted by mhendo

You really are very good at setting people straight about arguments that they have never made.

Kudos to you!

You're equally good at ignoring pertinent questions, and snipping statements to meet your needs.

Shame on you.

[billfish678]

Ironically its kinda like the early edited King videos where it looks like the LAPD is beating up on some law abiding random black dude.

[mhendo]

Originally Posted by dnooman

You're equally good at ignoring pertinent questions, and snipping statements to meet your needs.

Shame on you.

If you really need me to explain to you why King's death garnered more attention than the death of the average person, or the average criminal, and why he is thus different from the average criminal, then please let me know.

I was trying to give you some credit by assuming that your question was merely rhetorical, but if you truly don't understand, and would like it explained, then i'll help you out. If you do want an explanation, let me know if multi-syllable words are OK.

[Little Nemo]

Originally Posted by ducati

Let me know when you've been a cop for a few years on a fugitive squad, made hundreds of violent felon arrests and fought with some of the most hateful, cop-hating scum Georgia has to offer in order to serve arrest warrants and bring criminals back to jail where they belong. Please include a picture of the feather you used to tickle them into submission. Then we'll talk.

I was a prison guard at Attica. I know the difference between a legit use of force and a beat down. What happened to King was a beat down.

Was King a violent thug? Yes.

But how were the police officers who beat him up any better? Are you going to celebrate when they die?

[faithfool]

The post that was made that brought up all of King's transgressions...... did anyone else notice that there was nothing listed between 2003 and 2011? That says to me that he was, at the very least, trying (and doing a good enough job that he stayed out of trouble for that length of time) to clean up his act. Does that count for nothing in the 'we don't have to wish him to hell' department now that he's died?

For me, I appreciate what he exposed and how he tried to reconcile the factions warring during the riots. Whatever demons he faced, I hope he's at peace now.

[dougie_monty]

Originally Posted by Little Nemo

I was a prison guard at Attica. I know the difference between a legit use of force and a beat down. What happened to King was a beat down.
Was King a violent thug? Yes.
But how were the police officers who beat him up any better? Are you going to celebrate when they die?

Touché!
How many times did those four cops really need to hit him with their billy clubs, inasmuch as he wasn't on drugs or whatever?
I seem to remember what the Eighth Amendment says about "cruel and unusual punishments."
And while we're on the subject, just what was done to Reginald Denny, who was pulled out of his sand truck near the flash point of the riots? And was he a slimeball like Rodney King is supposed to have been, or is he just guilty of 1) being white and 2) carrying 27 tons of sand in his truck?

[Condescending Robot]

Originally Posted by ducati

He doesn't, but that's a debate for another thread.

Let me know when you've been a cop for a few years on a fugitive squad, made hundreds of violent felon arrests and fought with some of the most hateful, cop-hating scum Georgia has to offer in order to serve arrest warrants and bring criminals back to jail where they belong. Please include a picture of the feather you used to tickle them into submission. Then we'll talk.

Are you confessing to a crime?

[Eve]

Originally Posted by dnooman

He was no Ghandi or Parks, or Theresa, he was a shitball criminal.

What happened to him is another thread entirely. He was always a menace to society.

That's true, he was much less a menace to society than Mother Teresa [no "h," by the way], and fewer people suffered because of him.

[Acsenray]

Originally Posted by Eve

That's true, he was much less a menace to society than Mother Teresa [no "h," by the way], and fewer people suffered because of him.

You forgot to correct his spelling of "Gandhi."

[Blackberry]

Originally Posted by Zebra

Doesn't CA have a three strikes law?

Yes it does, but three strikes laws only applies to certain felonies. From the list posted earlier in this thread it sounds like most of King's crimes were misdemeanors and several didn't result in convictions (and some more were infractions, not crimes).

[PlainJain]

Originally Posted by dougie_monty

Touché!
How many times did those four cops really need to hit him with their billy clubs, inasmuch as he wasn't on drugs or whatever?
I seem to remember what the Eighth Amendment says about "cruel and unusual punishments."
And while we're on the subject, just what was done to Reginald Denny, who was pulled out of his sand truck near the flash point of the riots? And was he a slimeball like Rodney King is supposed to have been, or is he just guilty of 1) being white and 2) carrying 27 tons of sand in his truck?

(emphasis mine)

We're actually not on that subject. People keep bring it up to paint the cops as worse to somehow lessen the perceived 'bad-ness' of King. King's worth to society (or lack thereof) stands alone and is independent of the actions of the cops.

[The Great Sun Jester]

Rodney King's life is swimming in irony.

I think the world probably is a better place without the guy. If not better, then certainly safer. I don't have a lot of patience for people who can own a rap sheet like his, but I do stop short of being happy about his death. For all his sins, it seems someone in his life is mourning him.

Originally Posted by Nunzio Tavulari

This promotes the stereotype that victims of beatings can't swim.

If only Bobby hadn't beaten Whitney ... oh wait. I see what you did there. I'm already on the Hell-bound bus for giggling at billfish's observation that King's water bill appears to have been current. I'm sure there's room in here for you.

[Zebra]

Originally Posted by Blackberry

Yes it does, but three strikes laws only applies to certain felonies. From the list posted earlier in this thread it sounds like most of King's crimes were misdemeanors and several didn't result in convictions (and some more were infractions, not crimes).

So should they add a "Four fouls and you're out" law?

[terentii]

Is the LAPD still considering changing its motto from "To Protect and to Serve" to "We Treat You Like a King!"?

[ducati]

Originally Posted by dnooman

He was no Ghandi or Parks, or Theresa, he was a shitball criminal.

Originally Posted by mhendo

I'm glad you cleared that up. That will certainly give pause to all the people in this thread who have been comparing him to those people.

Oh, wait, nobody has been doing that.

Originally Posted by dnooman

They have not. Nor has anyone called him a martyr, but we need to see this as it is.

A habitual criminal died today. Many habitual criminals died today, but this one gained public attention.

Tell me how his death is different from any of the others?

Originally Posted by mhendo

You really are very good at setting people straight about arguments that they have never made.

Kudos to you!

Originally Posted by mhendo

Another person who's awesome at rebutting arguments that no-one has made.

Originally Posted by dnooman

You're equally good at ignoring pertinent questions, and snipping statements to meet your needs.

Shame on you.

Originally Posted by mhendo

If you really need me to explain to you why King's death garnered more attention than the death of the average person, or the average criminal, and why he is thus different from the average criminal, then please let me know.

I was trying to give you some credit by assuming that your question was merely rhetorical, but if you truly don't understand, and would like it explained, then i'll help you out. If you do want an explanation, let me know if multi-syllable words are OK.

Please, Dopers...













Can't we all get along?

[Mr. Miskatonic]

I would point out that while the videotape caused rage the riots did not start until the LA jury aquitted the cops. Which brings the questions:

1) Was the videotape not the whole story? We were shown bits of it by the media, IIRC the defense showed the whole thing and I recall many folks trying to spin that Rodney was doing a lot of stupid **** the result in further blows.

2) If the 2nd sentence of #1 is not even remotely true, what the hell LA jury?

[Slithy Tove]

"stupid ****?" When he first got out of the car, he reached for his back pocket, which is a good way to get shot. Instead, the cops holstered their weapons and tasered him. When he still resisted, they beat him down. This gave the people across the street time to point the video camera onto the scene.

But still, something else would have triggered the riots anyway.

[Philster]

http://law2.umkc.edu/faculty/project...ngarrests.html

[MeanOldLady]

Originally Posted by billfish678

Ironically its kinda like the early edited King videos where it looks like the LAPD is beating up on some law abiding random black dude.

Juh? Was there a green arrow spliced in that I missed, pointing to him with the caption "Totally random and law-abiding guy who the cops decided to beat"? We saw four cops with batons beating a man who was on the ground. There was no statement or implication of the victim being a monk. All we saw was a senseless beating, and that was all there was to it. Evidence later surfacing that he'd led the cops on a pursuit, etc, didn't and doesn't change that.

[billfish678]

Post # 96 by Slithy covers it.

King wasn't some nice guy pulled over for driving while black (well maybe he was, I forget that detail). But driving while black wasn't wat got him in big trouble. The cops were dipshits but so was he. If he hadn't been a dipshit he would not have had the shit beaten out of him. Did he deserve that (for what he had just done)? No. But had he reacted like his passengers it wouldn't have happened either.

In theory I should be able to walk into a bad biker bar and call em all fat fucking loosers with tiny dick issues. I got enough sense to not do that and if I do I don't deserve a beatdown but that is what I am likely gonna get.

King was an idiot.

[Acsenray]

I think I have different expectations from police and bikers. And even if I didn't, it wouldn't matter to me whether what provoked them was a dipshit.