Why Doesn't All Wine Come In Bottles With Screw Caps?

[Creaky]

I like wine. I hate corks. They are a pain. Matter of fact, the more wine I drink, of an evening, the more problematic those pesky corks become. Problem is, "good" wine always comes in corked bottles. I fail to see how screw caps on decent wine could detract from the quality of the beverage. Seems that they'd like to make it easier for us to actually get at the stuff. But then I really don't know a doggone thing about wine. Please advise.

[Sofa King]

The simplest answer to your question might be "because Orson Welles is dead."

A more complex explanation will involve the frictional and insulational properties of cork and its ability to preserve the aging process within the bottle, which I leave to those of us whose first choice is not Thunderbird, as mine is.

[Tequila Mockingbird]

Because corks, as Sofa mentioned, preserve wine and let it age better than a screw cap. Some wine gets better with age, and a screw cap just can't do as good a job as cork can at keeping air out (the bane of "better" wines). Wine is generally acidic, and metal can create an off taste in wine, as well as eventually deteriorate. A gasket on a metal cap eventually deteriorates without some form of moisture, so it's a no win situation. Wines that are meant to be drunk without further aging come in screw caps (TJ swann, Gallo, Boone's Farm, etc.). Wines that require a bit of aging are in corks.

So next time you have a party, and you have nothing but corked wine, pull all the corks for fast action prior. It won't hurt the wine as long as it will be drunk that night. If you are just looking to get plowed on wine, I recommend a good corked bottle of "good stuff" to start off with, and when it's done, drag out the "box o' wine" for the finish line

[Zenster]

Originally posted by Tequila Mockingbird
...I recommend a good corked bottle of "good stuff" to start off with, and when it's done, drag out the "box o' wine" for the finish line

Mocker, that's rich!

[Sue Duhnym]

Actually, it's tradition. There is a stigma attached to wines with "screw tops" and it's not good.

To be honest, it doesn't matter much. There needs to be some buffer between the wine and the air and a plastic "cork" does that as well as real cork.

Most wines aren't aged for longer than 10 years, and any "cork" will do.

[Doug Bowe]

Hear! Hear! for Sue

Cork has been around for hundreds of years.
The screw top has been around for a lot less.
And the screw top has seemed to show up on some
pretty horrible vintages (Thunderbird and MD20/20 come to mind).

Fact is, cork deteriorates after a while, and a
screw top would probably be much better for things like
old Port. Just convince the old winemakers of this.

[Moonshine]

I have to agree with Sue and Doug on this one. Having lived slap bang in a vineyard on the Deutsche Weinstrasse for more years than I care to remember I have had plenty of exposure to grapes, wine, farmers and probably got a touch of the noble rot myself.

The fact of the matter is that plastic corks are every bit as good as natural corks and somewhat cheaper too, with the added advantage of not degenerating if they are dried out (which is why you have to store wine on its side). Metal tops can react with the wine in certian circumstances so they aren't as good, though as has been poinbted out, most wine isn't stored long enough for that to make a difference anyway.

The main reason that the market hasn't completely gone over to plastic corks is because of tradition and the association of plastic and metal stoppers with 'plonk'. Personaly I blame the French, but then I'm English so who else am I supposed to blame, the Welsh?

[Sir Doris]

I heard a fair bit of debate about plastic vs. cork a few months back. It was based primarily of the effect on the wine.

My impression was most wine "experts" came down on the side of "real" cork, argueing plastic could also taint wine (cause it to be "corked"). I think there is still some snobbery there.

Connected was an article on the environmental effect of the wine industry turning to plastic or screw top. Currently cork forests are maintained to supply the industry, with beneficial effects to wildlife and the environment. Without the demand, the land could well be turned to other use, and all those birdies and squirrels will be out of a home. Plus, of course cork is biodegradable, and I would guess takes less energy to form into "corks". So that's good enough reason to continue to have real cork as far as I'm concerned. But, yes, in terms of convenience, screw tops are a lot easier.

[DVous Means]

Almost all of the wine companies in Australia would change to screw tops overnight if they thought they could do it without losing market share.

The advantages of cork are so minimal that the additional cost of importing halfway round the world from Portugal would not stack up against the cost effectivenes of a plastic or screw closure.

in fact, there is a company in South Australia that specialises in synthetic corks, whose business has grown exponentially over the past copule of years precisely because natural cork is so unreliable.

[choosybeggar]

Here's a thoughtful article on the topic

To sum it up: there are many reasons to favor synthetic closures over natural cork (screw caps are out of the question). Apparently there is something called "cork taint" that is affecting more and more wine. It is an off taste caused by the metabolism of a microbe that lives in natural cork.

In favor of natural cork is (first and foremost) tradition, but also some evidence that it aids and abets the wine aging process.

[AWB]

Because some people have taste.

AWB, wine snob since 1995.

[DVous Means]

Just an aside on the issue of "natural" vs "artificial", when talking about wine...

Much of the sentiment favouring cork could be due to its natural origin and traditional use. Similarly, many people who are ignorant of current wine-making techniques believe that wine is made in wooden barrels, just as it was in bygone years. Wood is warmly regarded because of its natural and traditional values.

But most commercial wine, even the premium vintages, are made in large stainless steel vats or tanks, where the process can be monitored and controlled in minute detail. No-one would argue that modern vintage wines are generally of a much higher quality than ever before, even though they are made in "unnatural" and "untraditional" ways.

Surely the same logic can be applied to the method in which bottles are sealed. It's just a matter of re-educating the consumer into realising that the cork may be the reason why an expensive wine tastes like battery acid.

[Cerowyn]

Originally posted by Moonshine
Personaly I blame the French, but then I'm English so who else am I supposed to blame, the Welsh?

And just what did we do to even merit mention in who's to blame for the continued use of corks?

My experience with plastic corks is limited, but I have noticed that they are more difficult to remove than natural corks. Well, usually anyway. Plastic corks do have the advantage of not breaking up as you're trying to remove them.

Huw

[El Zagna]

Few things are as burdened with snobbery as wine. Not too long ago no one with any sophistication at all would even consider a rose'. Then Sutter Homes came along with its White Zinfandel, called it a "blush" instead of a "rose'", and celebrated its beautiful color. Now you see rose's everywhere, but don't ever call them that or people will gasp that "It's not a rose', it's a BLUSH!"

So until someone comes up with a clever way of marketing a screw cap for wine, we're stuck with corks.

Actually, that's OK with me. I kind of like the ritual of the cork, and the ingenious gadgetry that people have come up with for wine openers.

[bordelond]

It seems possible to me to [b]make a screw-top from cork[/b}. Why couldn't cork be somehow tempered and fashioned into screwtops? Perhaps such a top could be sealed with foil for distribution.

If needed, I suppose the foil could have "breathing" perforations, if gas exchange between the wine & the outside air is necessary.

[Creaky]

This is great. Thank you all for your responses. I'm learning in leaps and bounds. I always suspected that it was a desire to adhere to "tradition" regarding the use of corks and not plastic or metal screws. And it never occurred to me that entire cork forest were maintained for the wine industry alone. I love learning stuff like this! As far as "taste" goes, I gotta admit, I probably don't have much. I tend to prefer "better" wine for marathon gulping sessions because I end up with less of a hangover the next day. I'm such a Philistine!!

[egkelly]

Screw caps are far superior to corks. They don't leak or admit oxgen, and are cheaper to manufacture. However, as is always the case, political considerations have impeded technical progress. A few years back, Spain and Portugal petitioned the European Parliament, to prohibit the use of screw-top wine bottles. This was done to save a few hundred jobs in the cork-growing industry.
No doubt a few well-placed bribes were essential to this!

[Bawdysurfer]

Once upon a time, a group of oh-so-uppercrusty, self anointed to varying degrees oenophiles were gathered round oaken monuments to various vintner's supposed best efforts. All good and decent people to be sure, who had tendencies to pontificate on the delicacies of fruit of the vine.

Preparations included the cleansing, sterilization, and label removal of various shapes and sizes of bottles, into which were decanted assorted price range, real and purported quality wines.

Some of the bottles had corks, others screw caps.

One at a time, samples were poured from each. The participants took notes.

All of the capped bottles contained what others might have rated as the best wines.

It was obvious to everyone that a bluff was being attempted.

Glasses were swirled, legs observed, and jargon let loose in truly colorful and de rigueur fashion.

The most noticeable outcome was that on significant average, every wine poured from a capped bottle received a substantially lower rating than those from corked bottles did.

Sobbery took a shot in the arm that night.

Perception, real or imagined, taints our tastes.

[cher3]

Quote:

"But most commercial wine, even the premium vintages, are made in large stainless steel vats or tanks, where the process can be monitored and controlled in minute detail. No-one would argue that modern vintage wines are generally of a much higher quality than ever before, even though they are made in "unnatural" and "untraditional" ways."

They may start out in steel, but most of them are aged in wood barrels, and the finer the wine, the smaller the barrel, in my winery touring experience.

My prediction is that plastic corks will gradually replace real cork in many wines, in the way that a wax circle has replaced the foil top. I had a South African wine with a plastic cork the other day. It wasn't a great vintage, but it was certainly completely respectable. They matched the color of the cork to the bottle, which might appeal to wineries looking for a distinctive "look" to make their wine stand out from the others on the shelf.

[Necros]

Then Sutter Homes came along with its White Zinfandel, called it a "blush" instead of a "rose'", and celebrated its beautiful color. Now you see rose's everywhere, but don't ever call them that or people will gasp that "It's not a rose', it's a BLUSH!"

Most just call it "nasty."

[smaft]

FWIW- a few wineries have begun bottling better stuff in screwtop bottles, testing the market, the last year or two, on the theory it'll age better without the problem of cork deterioration, etc., as discussed above.

Can't remember specifics off the top of my head, and can't seem to find links, but IIRC one was selling the same wine in both corked and screwed bottles; the screwtop cost some 15% more!

[JillGat]

It's not that unusual to open an expensive bottle of wine and find the cork to be rotted and the wine spoiled. It's happened to me a few times. I've also heard that the trees that produce cork are becoming scarcer - anyone know if that's true? I think there is a historic aesthetic there (like using laces on shoes). The plastic/rubber corks don't bother me as much as the screw caps do. I was given a $125 corkscrew with a bone handle as a gift once and I have to admit I'd be bummed if I couldn't use it anymore.

[obfusciatrist]

see, the problem is that we are discussing wine snobs here. Everyone realizes that all wine tastes like pig piss. This puts wine snobs into the same category as Star Trek fans and Datsun afficionados.

You see, when the subject of your adoration sucks so horribly, the surrounding fans must silently avoid the issue and are left only with the picayune for discussion. Thus "Picard or Kirk?", "510 or Z Car?", and "synthetic or natural cork?"

You'll note that the truly preferred alcohol delivery systems (gin and tequila) all come with twist tops.

I leave you now to the minutae of your strange hobbies. Oh, by the way, I'll take a synthetic cork over Captain Kirk any day.

[gazpacho]

obfusciatrist

You are drinking cheap tequila if it comes with a twist top.

I cannot think of any gin with a cork so I will let you slide on that one.

As for Kirk I think he uses a synthetic top now a days.

[dropzone]

Originally posted by obfusciatrist
"510 or Z Car?"

I'd go with the 510 except I used to own one. Granted, it was a wagon (live rear axle, not IRS) with the poorest excuse for an automatic (Borg-Warner) ever PLUS a tendency to stall for no good reason. But no Z Car after the 280Z; they just got too fat. I like my cars to be lighter than me.

So why do I drive a Taurus? Oh yeah, it's reliable and I fit into it.

Originally posted by DVous Means
No-one would argue that modern vintage wines are generally of a much higher quality than ever before, even though they are made in "unnatural" and "untraditional" ways.

No argument from me. Even crappy wine has gotten drinkable and mediocre wine is rather good these days.

[Sue Duhnym]

Really obfus, I have seen lots of tequila (and a few vodkas) with a plastic topped cork. That is, the top looks like a giant thumbtack, with the head made of plastic and the pin made of cork.

And don't go ripping on Datsuns!

[ModernRonin2]

Point 1: I am not a wine snob. I will drink a good Pino Grigio one day, and drink Mad Dog the next. One I drink to enjoy the flavor, one I drink to get wasted. I see no reason to be snobby about it. <G>

Point 2: Any wine snob worth their salt should already own one or more vacuum pumps with corresponding synthetic rubber vacuum corks. See http://www.vinetowine.com/voxcart/wi...and_sealer.asp. Buying one of these things was the best $15 I ever spent on anything even vaguely wine related. If you drink wine and you don't have one of these, get a good quality one ASAP. Then, whenever you open a fresh bottle, pop one of these babies in there. Excellent. With these things, one need not care whether the bottle is originally sealed with a cork or cap.

Point 3: I am a _total_ car snob. The Nissan 300ZX is (remainder deleted because it would get this post moved to IMO)


-Ben

[dropzone]

Originally posted by ModernRonin2
Point 3: I am a _total_ car snob. The Nissan 300ZX is

Too ugly to appear on the same road as a 240Z?

Now, the Datsun 2000 was a CAR!

[mojo filter]

.....and remember to ask the wine steward for the cap when he opens your Thunderbird. We don't want him to think we are uncivilized, now do we?

[obfusciatrist]

Oh well, that's what I get for speaking of things I know little. I've never actually had my own bottle of tequila, I've only ever ordered it at bars. Had no idea what kind of top they had, assumed they would be twist top like gin (of which I have puchased more than my share of bottles).

[Creaky]

I'm scared of gin. Gin makes me mean. Bourbon's good, though. No corks there, at least.

[kniz]

Not long ago, I read an article saying that one of the better wineries in California was putting out some of its best wine with twist caps. It said that others were thinking of doing the same. It stated that California wines were now highly thought of and that if it catches on that it could become widely accepted.

[Cheesesteak]

This discussion reminds me of the scene from the Muppet Movie where Steve Martin is serving wine to Kermit and Miss Piggie:

Steve (sneering) "Would you like to smell the bottle-cap?"

The wine drinking experience loses a bit of its luster this way, dontcha think?

Oh, and on Tequila, your average Cuervo type tequila has screwtops, expensive stuff get's a cork.

[JillGat]

I also like corks because I can do a kind of impressive little trick with them. The only other trick I can do is breaking an apple in half with my hands. So - get rid of corks and I'm down to one trick.

[Tapioca Dextrin]

Originally posted by JillGat
I also like corks because I can do a kind of impressive little trick with them.

Are you show us this trick or are we just just going to have to use our febrile imaginations?

[JillGat]

Ew, I just realized some of you perverts may have had other visuals in mind. This is the trick: I hold a cork in each hand, in the gap (web) between the thumb and index finger. I exchange the corks to the other hand, using the tips of the index fingers and thumbs, without letting go (of the fingertips). Guess you'll have to come to Albuquerque to see this... I can't describe it very well. It's worth about ten minutes of attention at a party.

[Edited by JillGat on 04-01-2001 at 01:14 PM]

[Tapioca Dextrin]

It's a cork based date then! I'm not free 'til next month, but I'll be right over. I'll even bring a couple of bottles if it'll help.

[Chronos]

...and also without the cork/finger loops ending up linked together. It's a lot more impressive when you see it done. I don't often have corks to practice with, but I can sometimes pull it off with marker caps (it's harder, 'cause they're shorter).

[JillGat]

Steal my thunder why don't you, Chronos.

[Bawdysurfer]

Corks seem to be near the ideal optimum for the high speed, right in your face, prevention of the linked loops syndrome. Potential audiences can pop up most anywhere, causing the need to improvise. Peanuts, of the in the shell ballpark variety, make a most acceptable alternative. At other times, a carrot stick snapped to somewhere around that magical 2 to 2½ inch length, will prove to be quite suitable. Chapsticks or traditional shaped lipsticks work nicely. As long as one remembers the needed incantation that disturbs the integration of at least one of the items held in the crotch of the thumb and forefinger at a speed near twice as fast as the blink of an eye, then re - integrates while under pressure from the thumb and finger, why then, the impossible remains routine.

[waterj2]

Originally posted by Creaky
I'm scared of gin. Gin makes me mean. Bourbon's good, though. No corks there, at least.

My bottle of Wild Turkey 101 Proof has one of those aforementioned plastic topped corks. I like it. Makes a nice satisfying pop when you open it.

[obfusciatrist]

Don't really have anything further to add other than to note that I just noticed that JillGat is JillGat and not JillCat. 18 months in this neck of the woods and I just noticed this.

Reading her name on staff reports and moderator lists and other stuff and I just noticed this.

I am an idiot.

[Creaky]

Waterj2: I didn't know that bourbon came with corks. Learn something every day here. (My usual tipple is Jim Beam, avec screw cap.)

Wowee.... that stuff you got is 101 proof? Just goes to show what a relative babe-in-the-woods I am. I bet that ole cork does make a nice satisfying pop when you pull it out. Must be the nuclear fission behind it....! Now I guess I got to try some.

I'll tell you one thing I do like about corks in bottles. Sometimes it's fun to get them most of the way out and then pretend to be a pirate wench and go "Arrr," and clamp my teeth around the cork and pull it the rest of the way out, then spit it across the room and take a big swig of whatever's in the bottle and wave the bottle around and sing raucous pirate songs.

This is easier to do with a real cork than a plastic one.

[shelbo]

Originally posted by Creaky
I'm scared of gin. Gin makes me mean. Bourbon's good, though. No corks there, at least.

If you like Bourbon, you owe it to yourself to try a shot of Blanton's. It does have a cork, topped with a little pewter horse (from Kentucky ya' know!). It will make you start talking like a wine snob -- "oh, the vanilla and caramel flavors". It is really fantastic.

[JillGat]

Originally posted by obfusciatrist
Don't really have anything further to add other than to note that I just noticed that JillGat is JillGat and not JillCat. 18 months in this neck of the woods and I just noticed this.

Reading her name on staff reports and moderator lists and other stuff and I just noticed this.

I am an idiot.

Really. And you've been here a year? How the heck do you search the archives for all my staff reports if you can't even spell my screen name?

[obfusciatrist]

Ummm...<desparately seeking foot/mouth removal answer>...let's see.....ah! yes! The unusually good search engine.

Yes, it would seem that the SD search engine is so good as to recognize what I meant and not what I said. Yay, SDMB infrastructure.

Actually, the real answer is that I had no need to search the archives as I religiously printed each report in triplicate, filing and hand indexing them for all keyword and partial-word phrases. This index was then studied for 90 minutes each night until memorized allowing me instant access to all your wisdom when combined with my nifty rear-pocket microfiche reader.

[JillGat]

Whew.