Is God real?

[Meatros]

Originally Posted by Really Not All That Bright

That's what I said: Anselm. I mean thanks.

It reminded me of anselm and Descartes a bit.

[Meatros]

Originally Posted by Invictus

It is necessary for a mind-object to be well defined before it can be considered real.

That does not mean that all well-defined mind objects ARE real.

Please don't twist my words.

So then what does make that distinction?

[RedFury]

Originally Posted by Meatros

So then what does make that distinction?

When you define "God" as he does. Duh!

NB-which he is yet to do. And won't be able to outside of ethereal mumbo-jumbo, abusing word definitions to suit their purpose & 'personal experience'.

I'm excited though, this is like nothing we've ever read before on here.

[Voyager]

Originally Posted by Invictus

Thats the problem - already you are defining God in an inconsistent way by attributing omniscience and omnipotence. Straw man?

I was referring to your use of "necessary." It was just an example of a self-contradictory definition of god. But I clearly did not limit definitions of god to this one. Assuming we don't go to silly extremes - Augustus was called a God by the Romans, Augustus existed, thus God exists - give me a definition and I'll refute it.

[Voyager]

Originally Posted by Maggie the Ocelot

But that's the thing. I think a lot of times when people say "God", they aren't thinking necessarily of a specific god at all. They're thinking of some sort of benificent Creator-spirit, who may or may not have any defining characteristics beyond that.

If you're arguing for a Deist sort of god, you are NOT arguing for a god that fits the defined characteristics of either YHVH or Jesus. If you are arguing that God is Nature, or Eternity, or the Ravenous Bugblatter Beast of Traal - that's cool, and worth discussing - but again, that's not the same Deity described in the Torah or the New Testament.

Even the deity defined in the New Testament doesn't seem to be well defined, with different sects saying he loves gays or hates gays. This, and your first point, is exactly what I was referring to. A believer can't expect an atheist to demonstrate why the god he believes in makes no sense when he can't even describe the god he believes in.

It is like if a doctor is asked to create a cure for Bonkus of the Conkus, which is a disease which sometimes makes you feel tired on Monday or glad on Tuesday, and can be found in a leg, an arm, or nowhere at all. She can't come up with a cure? What kind of doctor is she, anyhow?

[Bamboo Boy]

Originally Posted by Invictus

It is necessary for a mind-object to be well defined before it can be considered real.

That does not mean that all well-defined mind objects ARE real.

Please don't twist my words.

I think this gave him that idea:

Originally Posted by Invictus

I am of the opinion that if something is well defined it is true, and that the cardinal attribute of a real object is truth (ie correspondence to reality).

and this:

Originally Posted by Invictus

Example - suppose I define God as reality.

God is real because reality is real.

Its very simple.

I know I'm late to the party, but I didn't see anyone here point this out explicitly. Are you for real, Invictus?

[jayjay]

Originally Posted by Maggie the Ocelot

*shrug* God is a category, a job title, not necessarily a first name.

Yeah, his first name is Yahu-Wahu. According to some sources, anyway...

[Morgenstern]

Originally Posted by Really Not All That Bright

Don Quixote is pretty well defined; there are 500,000 words in the novel about him, give or take. He's still fictional.

According to Peoplesmart, he's 27 and lives in Portland Oregon.

[MrDibble]

Originally Posted by The Hamster King

For example, I happen to know that there's a real animal called a quagga, but I have no idea what one looks like, or where they live, or what their habits are.

I hate to break it to you, but quaggas don't exist.





Anymore.

Kind of like God.

And that OP is the poorest restatement of the Ontological Proof I've ever read.

[jayjay]

Originally Posted by Morgenstern

According to Peoplesmart, he's 27 and lives in Portland Oregon.

Wait...I thought Donkey Hodey lived in Someplace Else?