Gay pride parades.. more helpful or harmful to the gay rights movement?

[the apples fell]

Some say they are empowering, giving gays and lesbians a chance to be themselves. Others, including some LGBT people, say they pander too much to stereotypes, fetishes, and caricatured behavior and make the LGBT community look bad.

What do you think? I am gay, so this is particularly important to know for me.

[hogarth]

Personally, I think the fact that the Pride parade is fun and entertaining builds a lot of good will. It's much better for public relations than an event full of grim, humourless dignity.

[the apples fell]

Originally Posted by hogarth

Personally, I think the fact that the Pride parade is fun and entertaining builds a lot of good will. It's much better for public relations than an event full of grim, humourless dignity.

I agree. But I can see the other side as well.

[Guinastasia]

Helpful -- it's not like Pride parades consist of people having sex right there on floats. (Which I wouldn't like to see in a non-Pride parade, either) Parades are supposed to be flashy and fun. (Look at Mardi Gras!) Besides you have all kinds of people marching in them as well. Depending on the area, some are more outrageous than others, too.

Plus the truly bigoted aren't going to attend, or be convinced either.


(Not gay, but totally pro-gay rights, and flashy parades.)

[Rachellelogram]

I think they're good, because the first step to un-othering a minority is increasing their visibility. It's easier for homophobes to spout their bullshit when they've never met or talked to a person they knew to be gay. At the parade, though, you can see groups of normal-looking people who happen to be gay, and they don't have hairy palms or extra limbs or anything!

My sister marched and played flute in a gay pride parade in Texas last week (go sis!!).

[the apples fell]

I've never marched in a pride parade but I'd like to, at some point, to see first hand what it is like to be at one.

[ZipperJJ]

I have a young gay friend who is all "gay pride parades are awful! Those scary leather daddies don't represent me! They hurt the community!" And I agree with that sentiment that those sorts of parades can and do hurt.

But I went to the 2011 Cleveland parade and it was 90% churches advertising their acceptance, and, like....Frito Lay. There were maybe 3 or 4 mostly-naked dudes and that's it.

So it irks me that my friend has given a blanket description of ALL Pride parades which is clearly false for his hometown parade.

Today he was going off on a news story about a guy who was sent to drive a donated truck in the parade, who skipped out on the job when he realized it was Pride. My friend was all "SEE? SEE HOW SCARY THEY ARE?" and I'm like "but...he didn't get scared off by leather daddies, he got scared off by the rainbow."

Anyway he drives me nuts.

But I'm not L, G, B or T so I don't get too much of a say

[Spoons]

I played golf over the weekend, and one of our foursome was gay. He supports the idea of gay rights, obviously; and has no problem with the celebrations that occur in the gay community at this time of year. He and his spouse have a great time at them.

What he has a problem with is the word, "pride." He's not necessarily proud to be gay. Oh, he's proud to be many things: a loving husband, an educated person, a pillar of the community, a hard worker who has achieved much. But as he puts it, he was born gay--so for him, saying "I'm proud to be gay," means about the same as "I'm proud to be right-handed," or "I'm proud to have brown hair" or "I'm proud to be six feet tall." In other words, he asks, should one be proud to be born with certain attributes, or should one simply accept them as the way one is? Celebrate them, sure, but is "pride" really the word we should be using?

It was an interesting take. I don't play golf for the philosophical questions, but we sure had a good think during our round!

[Odesio]

Originally Posted by the apples fell

What do you think? I am gay, so this is particularly important to know for me.

I used to think it was harmful to the gay rights movement. After all, shows like the 700 Club used some of the more outrageous images from pride events in their efforts to show just how Godless and immoral those homosexuals were. I'm convinced that those images aren't really all that helpful to the gay rights movement.

However, I think gay pride parades have been helpful to the gay rights movement. I've never been to a pride parade, but from what I've seen you've got all sorts of different people from the LGBT community who are participating as one big group. It doesn't matter if you're a girlie lesbian, a bear, a troll or a drag queen because they're all welcome. I think that kind of unity is pretty beneficial and outweighs any negativity that images from the parade might have on the nation as a whole.

[AqualungBats5th]

Joe Jervis of joe.my.god has an excellent essay about just this topic:

http://www.joemygod.blogspot.com/201...efectives.html

I am in complete agreement with him.

[boytyperanma]

Gay pride not harmful to gay rights movements.

Those St Paddy's day parades however completely damaging to the Irish rights movements. Since they've been having those parades for years not they'll never achieve equality. It completely gives the perception the Irish are nothing but drunks and leprechauns.

[Miller]

Originally Posted by rachelellogram

My sister marched and played flute in a gay pride parade in Texas last week (go sis!!).

If "played flute in a gay pride parade" isn't a euphamism for something, it should be.

[Alley Dweller]

Originally Posted by Spoons

I played golf over the weekend, and one of our foursome was gay. He supports the idea of gay rights, obviously; and has no problem with the celebrations that occur in the gay community at this time of year. He and his spouse have a great time at them.

What he has a problem with is the word, "pride." He's not necessarily proud to be gay. Oh, he's proud to be many things: a loving husband, an educated person, a pillar of the community, a hard worker who has achieved much. But as he puts it, he was born gay--so for him, saying "I'm proud to be gay," means about the same as "I'm proud to be right-handed," or "I'm proud to have brown hair" or "I'm proud to be six feet tall." In other words, he asks, should one be proud to be born with certain attributes, or should one simply accept them as the way one is? Celebrate them, sure, but is "pride" really the word we should be using?

It was an interesting take. I don't play golf for the philosophical questions, but we sure had a good think during our round!

Society has for a long time told gay people that they should be ashamed, hide in the closet, whatever. "Pride" rubs it in the face of those who would want you to be ashamed.

And besides, "Gay Pride Parade" is a little catchier than "Gay We're Going to Stop Being Ashamed Parade."

[even sven]

I don't see many people complaining about how the majorettes in their leotards and beauty queen in a bikini are ruining things for women by bring such racy and provocative clothing into what should be a wholesome event. Sexuality in a parade doesn't seem so offensive, I guess, when it's aimed at your tastes.

Gay pride is fun, and I'm delighted to see how it's turned from a political protest into a mainstream street festival for the whole neighborhood. I marched this year with Peace Corps in DC, and it was So. Much. Fun.

Somehow, I feel like even a gay parade where every dressed like bankers would upset the haters. Their problem is the gay, not the event.

[Spoons]

Originally Posted by Alley Dweller

Society has for a long time told gay people that they should be ashamed, hide in the closet, whatever. "Pride" rubs it in the face of those who would want you to be ashamed.

And besides, "Gay Pride Parade" is a little catchier than "Gay We're Going to Stop Being Ashamed Parade."

Perhaps we've come far enough that "I'm gay" is nothing more than "I'm right-handed" is to my gay golfing friend. I'll admit that I was a little surprised at his remarks, made as they were here in Canada's Bible Belt--I though he'd be a little more "in your face." He would be justified, IMHO, in doing so--locally, we have plenty of creationists who believe that the earth began in 4004 BC, and folks who write Letters-to-the-Editor about how when an abortion or gay sex occurs, Jesus cries. But he's not; he is happy with who he is, he likes where he lives, he's pretty easygoing even with those who disagree with him, and he doesn't care what others think. In short, "gay" is just one of his many qualities; you can take him or leave him based on all. (I'll take him; he's a good golfer, and I hope we're paired up in an upcoming best ball tourney. ) I don't expect that every LGBT person thinks as he does, though. As I said, it was a thoughtful round of golf.

Maybe that's the key--I don't see him as gay; I see him as someone whom I would like to play golf with again. He had some good tips, and helped me with my game. He commiserated with bad shots, and applauded good shots, and was someone I hope to play with again. His sexual preference had nothing to do with that. By his simple sportsmanship, he proved himself to be more than just gay--he was just one of the guys, out golfing. And perhaps that's worth noting--he is more than just a gay person. As I would imagine, all LGBT people are.

Note that I agree with you on the second point--I don't think the LGBT community ought to be ashamed of anything.

[drewtwo99]

Sexuality in gay pride parades is not a problem. End of story.

For the same reason we don't get mad at scantily-clad women in parades, beauty pageants, etc, there's no reason to feel like scantily-clad men are doing some sort of disservice to gay men.

Or maybe you do get your panties in a bunch at scantily-clad women on TV, magazines, parades, convention centers, billboards, etc... in which case you are being entirely consistent in your disgust for the scantily-clad gay men at gay pride parades.

If you think one is a problem, and the other is not, then you might be a bit homophobic and not realize it.

[BigT]

Oddly enough, helpful, but not for the reason you think. I've recently had a conversation with my sister, and, despite being a fundamentalist Christian, she's all for gay marriage. Part of it is that she can't see how it would be constitutional otherwise--something she thought of on her own without any other legal stuff, just based on the tenor of the document itself. Part of it was the whole "hate the sin, love the sinner" doctrine. But one thing she said caught my eye: she thought that, maybe if gay people finally felt like equal citizens, they'd stop feeling the need to constantly proclaiming their sexuality like it's something important. She specifically talked about how she dislikes gay pride parades, and she'd rather not see that stuff.

So, in other words, such things help because they give people like her something to try to stop by giving you what you want.

BTW, I know for a fact my sister would say the same thing about a Het pride parade. It's the sexuality that bugs her.

[AK84]

I have no opinion. I just find it weird that people wish to define themselves by whom or what the like to sleep with. I can understand that others might find my opinion weird.

[clairobscur]

I voted "pander too much for stereotypes". When younger I participed in a number of homosexual rights marches. I stopped when they became carnivals displaying proeminently guys in full SM attire or such things. Watching that on TV wasn't going to convince the average Joe that an homosexual was "normal" and typically looked and behaved like his neighbor who goes to work as a bank teller every day.

[clairobscur]

Originally Posted by drewtwo99

For the same reason we don't get mad at scantily-clad women in parades, beauty pageants, etc, there's no reason to feel like scantily-clad men are doing some sort of disservice to gay men.
.

If it were solely a parade, your position would make sense. But it's also (and should primilary be IMO) a march asking for equal right and respect for gays. I see it more as a kind of protest, and there aren't any scantily clad women in protests.

[Noone Special]

Not voting because my vote would be for "it depends"

Jokingly, I'd say it depends on who's semi-naked -- if it's women, bring it on! Guys, no I'm not really interested.... (Hey, I'm straight so it won't actually *lead* to anything, but a guy can *look*, right? Not to mention I'm married as well, so double whammy! )

More seriously -- I think most Pride Parades (and I've marched in Tel Aviv Pride Parades, because it's the best party in town and there are probably 3 straight people marching for every gay one. Oh, and because I want to show my support for the community even if I'm not part of it) are just a party. In other words, fun, and a good way to bring attention to the cause.

OTOH, as much as it bothers me on a moral level, there is no denying that some people will use any and all excuses to stoke their own homophobia, including claiming that "we're not homophobic, it's just those disgusting parades that annoy us! Oh and it proves we can't trust those people"
Yeah, in an ideal world the response should be "fuck them sideways with the blunt instrument of their preference." But we don't live in an ideal world yet and the haters are still far too many and with far too much clout....

So, it depends.

[amanset]

Originally Posted by clairobscur

If it were solely a parade, your position would make sense. But it's also (and should primilary be IMO) a march asking for equal right and respect for gays. I see it more as a kind of protest, and there aren't any scantily clad women in protests.

Au contraire. The topless protest is a very real thing. For example FEMEN.

There's a wiki page about nudity in protests.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nudity_and_protest

[amanset]

Originally Posted by hogarth

Personally, I think the fact that the Pride parade is fun and entertaining builds a lot of good will. It's much better for public relations than an event full of grim, humourless dignity.

Not all Gay Pride "parades" are the same. An ex called me from Latvia when she was at a Pride parade in Riga. It was more a political rally with many, many people protesting the parade, shouting slogans and holding up signs calling for, amongst other things, the killing of all homosexuals.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pride_parade#Latvia

I fall on the side of what someone else said:

I agree. But I can see the other side as well.

[Gyrate]

Not voting because there ought to be a "Both/it depends" option. Visibility is good; reinforcing people's views that gay men are all drag queens is less so. And of course the media will focus on the one person acting outrageously and ignore the 99 quiet and dignified marchers which also doesn't help. I'd love to see an entire gay pride parade of people dressed like middle-class suburbanites (chinos on the march!), just to blow people's minds.

So I dunno. But then I'm not big on parades and pageantry in general, so I suppose that colors my views somewhat. And at least gay pride parades don't involve green (urk) beer.

[Cheesesteak]

Originally Posted by even sven

I don't see many people complaining about how the majorettes in their leotards and beauty queen in a bikini are ruining things for women by bring such racy and provocative clothing into what should be a wholesome event. Sexuality in a parade doesn't seem so offensive, I guess, when it's aimed at your tastes.

You have a 15 year old baton twirler wearing a leotard, that doesn't mean the next group can have a 50 year old man dressed as a French Maid, or a 50 year old woman dressed as a dominatrix because we've sexualized the event.

Parades aren't events to "be yourself". The baton twirler isn't being herself, she's putting on a structured performance as a member of her school's marching band. I'm not sure what the guys wearing nothing but a speedo, or the guy in the fairy costume, or the cross dressing guy with the pink feather boa are doing, besides reinforcing a unfair stereotype of gay men as hypersexualized weirdos.

Of course, it does depend on the purpose of the parade. If it's to show yourselves and promote a better relationship with the straight majority, it should be toned down. If it's to be a no holds barred F/U to the assholes who'll hate you anyway, bring it on!

[Nava]

Originally Posted by hogarth

Personally, I think the fact that the Pride parade is fun and entertaining builds a lot of good will. It's much better for public relations than an event full of grim, humourless dignity.

Yeah. Plus they're getting less and less cartoonish, both in reality and as reported; nowadays you're as likely to see extended families with everybody from the grandparents to a couple of babies as to see that dozen guys in drag which used to be the one thing news programs showed. Or to see an extended family which includes a dude in drag and someone who leaves half the onlookers wondering whether it was a she or a he.

[hogarth]

Originally Posted by Gyrate

I'd love to see an entire gay pride parade of people dressed like middle-class suburbanites (chinos on the march!), just to blow people's minds.

Perhaps things are different in your part of the world, but I find that boring stuff doesn't tend to blow people's minds.

[Loach]

What's good for the assless chaps industry is good for the country.



I know all chaps are assless but it just sounds better that way

[Moonlitherial]

The Toronto Pride Parade is 32 years old this year and the community attitudes have changed pretty radically. Less than 10 years ago it was a big deal when the first chief of police marched in the parade and for the last couple of years it's been a huge deal that our current mayor skips it every year with flimsy excuses.

I grew up with racist homophobic relatives and things like the pride parade were a huge help to me in realizing that people are just people and helping me to distance myself from my relatives beliefs. Even without going to the parade itself most of the time (I hate crowds) the discussions that the coverage triggers spreads awareness that for the most part these are just people who want to live their lives.

I vote helpful.

[AqualungBats5th]

Originally Posted by clairobscur

I voted "pander too much for stereotypes". When younger I participed in a number of homosexual rights marches. I stopped when they became carnivals displaying proeminently guys in full SM attire or such things. Watching that on TV wasn't going to convince the average Joe that an homosexual was "normal" and typically looked and behaved like his neighbor who goes to work as a bank teller every day.

Okay, but here's the thing. It's nice that you were a straight/cis ally at parades and all. But Pride does not exist to convince you that we are "just like you". It does not exist so that you will give us permission to exist. It does not exist for you at all. It's for us. To say we do exist and we don't need your stamp of approval just to continue being who we are. Hell yeah, it's a protest. It's protesting the idea that we should be closested and invisible (or dead). It's not about winning rights, though.

Because you know what? A parade of heteronormative looking gay and trans people was never going to convince anyone of anything. When it comes to convincing "average Joe" that we ought to have the same rights as him, his heart and mind is changed through day to day interactions, and knowing queer people on a personal level. No parade can do that. And no parade can take it away.

[johnpost]

You do this every year! We are used to it.

[Gyrate]

Originally Posted by hogarth

Perhaps things are different in your part of the world, but I find that boring stuff doesn't tend to blow people's minds.

I live in London. The last GPP I saw included a man in drag with his head in a birdcage. A parade of people dressed in Banana Republic-wear would certainly blow my mind by comparison.

[Jragon]

I don't know, I feel like it SHOULD be in some ways harmful, but not for the reasons described in the poll. I feel like by making a big deal about it, you're drawing attention to it as something unusual. Society treats homosexuality as unusual already (which, granted, it is STATISTICALLY), but uses that as an excuse to discriminate. So by drawing attention to it, it feels like you're just reinforcing its oddness. It seems like if everybody was just open about "yeah, I'm homosexual, so what?" And dropped the topic as if it were no big deal, then it would be no big deal. In other words, it feels like treating it as something to have attention drawn to it is only going to make it be viewed as more odd, whereas just not flaunting it, but also not concealing it (meaning, kiss in public, hold hands, openly admit you're gay, whatever) will make people not really notice it after a while.

HOWEVER, this is why I'm spearheading any civilization-altering movements. Clearly before there was any sort of movement, homosexuals were marginalized and ignored way more than they were now, so in reality I find that despite what I would think would happen -- they're helpful. So I'm probably describing the way things ought to be (homosexuality is no big deal, nobody feels compelled to hide it, but neither to draw specific attention to it) rather than how they are (homosexuality is no big deal, though people act like it is so people feel compelled to hide it and drawing specific attention to it helps step things in the right direction towards acceptance).

[jordanr2]

Originally Posted by AK84

I have no opinion. I just find it weird that people wish to define themselves by whom or what the like to sleep with. I can understand that others might find my opinion weird.

not weird, just mistaken. No one is "defining themselves by whom they like to sleep with," they're openly acknowledging that it's one facet of who they are and that this isn't reason for shame.

[Blackzilla]

I'm surprised at the responses - have any of you been to big city Pride Parades?

The reality of Pride Parades, in my experience, is much more like this Onion article.

I went to the Chicago Pride Parade a few weeks ago, and -

Originally Posted by The Onion

...A group of obese women in leather biker outfits passing out clitoris-shaped lollipops to horrified onlookers; a man in military uniform leading a submissive masochist, clad in diapers and a baby bonnet, around on a dog leash; several Hispanic dancers in rainbow wigs and miniskirts performing "humping" motions on a mannequin dressed as the Pope; and a dozen gyrating drag queens in see-through dresses holding penis-shaped beer bottles that appeared to spurt ejaculation-like foam when shaken and poured onto passersby.

...is downright tame compared to that parade and the surrounding activity.

[Guinastasia]

Originally Posted by Loach

What's good for the assless chaps industry is good for the country.



I know all chaps are assless but it just sounds better that way

Depends on who's wearing them.

[guizot]

Originally Posted by even sven

I don't see many people complaining about how the majorettes in their leotards and beauty queen in a bikini are ruining things for women by bring such racy and provocative clothing into what should be a wholesome event.

True. But I would say that ALL parades are stupid, whether wholesome or not. If there's something I want to see--or music I want to hear--I don't want to have to compete with everyone else to squeeze into some place on a sidewalk just in order to see (or hear) it for 25 seconds as it goes by, craning my neck to get a glimpse from behind the 50 other people who are in front of me because they showed up at 5:00 in the morning to get a good place.

Especially when it comes to majorettes in leotards and beauty queens in bikinis.

Of course, that's only in the rare cases of parades that actually have something interesting in the first place. I mean, really--a Flag Day parade????? Let's face it: The vast majority of parades are really just pathetic spectacles at the public expense where every guy and his dog can pretend that the world for some reason wants to watch him walk buy.

[panache45]

Originally Posted by Spoons

What he has a problem with is the word, “pride.” He’s not necessarily proud to be gay. Oh, he’s proud to be many things: a loving husband, an educated person, a pillar of the community, a hard worker who has achieved much. But as he puts it, he was born gay--so for him, saying “I’m proud to be gay,” means about the same as “I’m proud to be right-handed,” or “I’m proud to have brown hair” or “I’m proud to be six feet tall.” In other words, he asks, should one be proud to be born with certain attributes, or should one simply accept them as the way one is? Celebrate them, sure, but is “pride” really the word we should be using?

This is something that needs to be addressed . . . especially because I used to feel the same way.

We’ve all heard stories about kids who are bullied and teased because they’re perceived as gay. Tragically, some of these kids are driven to end their own lives. But for the most part these kids go on to rise above the pain, learn to deal with the adversity, and grow up to be happy and productive members of society. There are also kids who are exposed to stifling religious teachings from an early age. Tragically, some of these kids, when trying to come to terms with their sexuality, are disowned and banished by their families and churches. Many of them become involved with drugs and prostitution. Yet there are also kids who luckily find a way of surviving and flourishing in spite of the odds. There are also people whose childhoods are relatively uneventful, and who go on to college and professional lives, who are living with a secret they cannot divulge, out of fear of losing family, friends, homes or jobs. So they go though life on the “down-low,” living in constant fear of being found out, and made to suffer the consequences. But there are also many who choose to reject that fear, and choose to deal with the consequences of being open and honest about who and what they are.

We are the survivors. We are the ones who have left the bullies and the bigots in our dust, and rejected the idea of “a love that dare not speak its name.” Many of us have overcome enormous odds, and rejected the idea that we should be “ashamed” of who we are. And we continue to fight, on a daily basis, both the childhood nightmares and today’s bigots, whether personal or political. And we continue to fight, not just for our own sake, but for today’s kids who don’t yet have a voice of their own. And we’re not content to merely survive, but to flourish.

Kids are not driven to suicide because of the color of their hair or eyes . . . but because they are perceived as being gay. People don’t lose their friends and families and jobs because they are left-handed . . . but because they come out as - or are discovered to be - gay. In a perfect world, my sexuality would be no more important than any other accidental characteristic. But we do not live in a perfect world, and my sexuality has been turned into a life-or-death issue. Our very survival - both as individuals and as a culture - depends on our constant fight for the rights and dignity that straight people take for granted. And we are gradually winning that fight. That’s something to be proud of.

So I continue to march in the Pride parade, as I’ve done for over 40 years . . . along with the leather daddies, the drag queens, the speedo bois and the “Dykes on Bykes” . . . and yes, the investment bankers and stay-at-home moms and dads too. Because we are ALL survivors . . . and flourishing in our own way. And nobody's path is more valid than another. We are ALL leather daddies; we are ALL drag queens; we are ALL bankers. We take this one day to exhibit our Pride in who and what we have become, against the odds; and to celebrate that beautiful diversity among us. And it’s very telling that this is some people’s opportunity to criticize us for what we have become, for that very diversity.

So yes, Pride is exactly the right word, to symbolize both where we have come from and where we are, and where we are going. In the context of our battles . . . past, present and future . . . I can’t think of a better word.

[HMS Irruncible]

Seems like the Pride parade in my town has gone from one extreme to the other in recent memory. First one I went to, there were men and women naked except for paint. Which, fun, but not really a wise strategy for reaching out to the mainstream. Last one I went to, more than half the floats were area churches and businesses putting their tolerance on display. Which, okay, progress, but what happened to all the gay people?

[Spoons]

Originally Posted by panache45

This is something that needs to be addressed . . . especially because I used to feel the same way....

So yes, Pride is exactly the right word, to symbolize both where we have come from and where we are, and where we are going. In the context of our battles . . . past, present and future . . . I can’t think of a better word.

I must thank you, panache45, for your remarks. They put a whole 'nother light on my gay golfing friend's POV.

May I pass them along to my gay golfing friend? Not that they are likely to change his mind--but they are interesting, and he might like to hear a clear and articulate explanation of "the other side," as it were.

[gatorslap]

Pride definitely has a lot of stereotypical appearances/behavior on display and plenty of outlandishness. But that's a feature, not a bug. Pride gives us a "day off" from heteronormative society. It allows us to "let our hair down", so to speak, and just go nuts and have a good time.

Plus, if we don't accept the flamers, the ultra-butch, the drag queens, etc., what grounds do we have to demand acceptance from society at large? I definitely don't think we're going to advance civil rights by throwing fellow queer people under the bus.

[Miller]

Originally Posted by Cheesesteak

You have a 15 year old baton twirler wearing a leotard, that doesn't mean the next group can have a 50 year old man dressed as a French Maid, or a 50 year old woman dressed as a dominatrix because we've sexualized the event.

Parades aren't events to "be yourself". The baton twirler isn't being herself, she's putting on a structured performance as a member of her school's marching band. I'm not sure what the guys wearing nothing but a speedo, or the guy in the fairy costume, or the cross dressing guy with the pink feather boa are doing, besides reinforcing a unfair stereotype of gay men as hypersexualized weirdos.

Of course, it does depend on the purpose of the parade. If it's to show yourselves and promote a better relationship with the straight majority, it should be toned down. If it's to be a no holds barred F/U to the assholes who'll hate you anyway, bring it on!

I hate to break it to you, but actually? The parades aren't about straight people. At all. They're about gay people. The name's a bit of a giveaway.

[Miller]

Originally Posted by AK84

I have no opinion. I just find it weird that people wish to define themselves by whom or what the like to sleep with. I can understand that others might find my opinion weird.

Practically speaking, the most important aspect of a person's identity is the one other people want to kill you for. If there were no homophobia, there'd be no gay pride. If other people didn't insist on making our sexuality such a big deal, our sexuality wouldn't be a big deal.

[Cheesesteak]

Originally Posted by Miller

I hate to break it to you, but actually? The parades aren't about straight people. At all. They're about gay people. The name's a bit of a giveaway.

The OP asked about the gay rights movement. Do you think that has nothing to do with straight people?

[Nava]

Originally Posted by panache45

People don’t lose their friends and families and jobs because they are left-handed . . . but because they come out as - or are discovered to be - gay.

Or even thought to be, with no actual proof; just some asshole (with my apologies to exit sphincters) who decided that specific subordinate/ candidate/ student was gay and got them fired/ hired someone else who didn't ping their gaydar/ flunked them, etc.

[panache45]

Originally Posted by Spoons

I must thank you, panache45, for your remarks. They put a whole 'nother light on my gay golfing friend's POV.

May I pass them along to my gay golfing friend? Not that they are likely to change his mind--but they are interesting, and he might like to hear a clear and articulate explanation of "the other side," as it were.

I'd be interested in his feedback.

[Living Well Is Best Revenge]

Shocking how many of the board conservatives are in the "harmful" category.

[shiftless]

Helpful, up to a point. When I drive through DC and see a big parade or protest, of any kind, it makes me aware that a lot of people have an interest in that subject. It isn't just a few people doing things I might find icky in back rooms. That is a first step toward learning to accept other people or learning to accept certain things about yourself. A gay pride parade makes me aware that there are a lot of gay folks out there. It makes me ask questions about what you want and who you are. Those are good things. It also once made my kids ask why those two men were kissing and why that other man didn't have any pants. Not subjects I wanted to discuss while driving through the nightmare of DC during an event but I can see why gay people want those questions out there.

I think of Ren Fairs in the same way. I'm nerdy and I wouldn't mind dressing up in fun costumes, talking in a bad accent and pretending for a while. A Ren Fair would allow me to do that if I wanted. In the end, such events make me aware that there are a lot of people out there that have similar interests and even if I am not interested myself, I can at least see they aren't crazy people. Just a little different.

When events become huge parties they are bound to alienate the non-partiers, like me. The wilder partiers can easily become the image people remember.

[Fear Itself]

Originally Posted by ZipperJJ

But I went to the 2011 Cleveland parade and it was 90% churches advertising their acceptance, and, like....Frito Lay.

Nabisco posted a rainbow Oreo on their Facebook page in support of gay pride, so the tide is turning in corporate America, though some conservative heads are still exploding:

Over the past 17 hours more than 157,000 people have "liked" the image, 40,000 people have shared it and 20,000 have commented on it.

But while many of the comments were supportive, some Facebook users pledged to boycott the cookie because of the post.

"I'll never buy Oreo again," one commenter wrote.

"Disgusted with oreos," wrote another. "Being gay is an abmonitation in GOd's eyes i wont be buying them anymore."

[Lamia]

Originally Posted by Odesio

I used to think it was harmful to the gay rights movement. After all, shows like the 700 Club used some of the more outrageous images from pride events in their efforts to show just how Godless and immoral those homosexuals were. I'm convinced that those images aren't really all that helpful to the gay rights movement.

It's not like The 700 Club was exactly gay-friendly to begin with, though. If someone has an agenda that requires them to depict homosexuals as godless and immoral then they'll find a way to do it, pride parades or no.

However, I think gay pride parades have been helpful to the gay rights movement. I've never been to a pride parade, but from what I've seen you've got all sorts of different people from the LGBT community who are participating as one big group. It doesn't matter if you're a girlie lesbian, a bear, a troll or a drag queen because they're all welcome. I think that kind of unity is pretty beneficial and outweighs any negativity that images from the parade might have on the nation as a whole.

Yeah, I agree and think it would be a lot more harmful to have gay pride events where everyone pretended that drag queens, etc., didn't even exist. While I think it's best for all involved if participants in pride parades -- and other parades -- refrain from violating local laws regarding public nudity, etc., if everyone but the "middle-class suburbanites" were forced to hide then the event wouldn't be about pride at all. It wouldn't even be much of a parade.