"Can I pet your dog?" No.

[Malthus]

Originally Posted by TheChileanBlob

Should OP have to make a little speech to every kid who wants to pet her dog? Sometimes you just want to get on with your day. No one is owed a chance to handle your dog, and no one is owed an explanation why they can't.

Sure, you have no positive duty to be nice to a child. No-one has an actual job of being polite to random people on the street. Want to make someone kid's day just that slight bit more unpleasant, to avoid the effort of saying a sentence? Go ahead, there is no law against it.

[Malthus]

Originally Posted by TriPolar

I would think that saying it with a smile to a stranger would be sufficient. As much of a dick as I am I would probably add something for a child, but I'm confused by the idea that a curt question answered with "Sorry, no" would be considered rude. I certainly do know how to be rude, and it's usually more complicated than that to avoid the misimpression that I'm not being rude.

Take the example of asking a guy visibly wearing a watch "do you have the time?".

The guy answers "sorry, no".

It's not the guy's job to give you the time, but what would you think of that guy after? Maybe he has a perfectly valid reason for not giving you the time of day. But if he says nothing more, you'd probably think he just doesn't like your face or something.

[Dogzilla]

For me, it depends on the kid, just as it depends on the other adult who initiates a conversation with me. That's why I posted my two examples on the previous page. In story one, the mom and kid were polite and respectful and listened to what I told them about interacting with my dog. And everything went fine. In the other story, some random kid comes running at us with a big stick in his hand... that's not going to end well. A nice polite, "No honey, don't hit my dog with a stick, you're scaring her" was obviously not going to slow that kid down one step. And I think he was pre-verbal anyway, but even a kid that young should understand a stern "NO!" in a loud voice. It was obvious a high-pitched "good kid" voice was going to be completely ignored.

So I have no criticism for the OP. We read people as they approach us. There is probably no one single perfect way to handle this situation.

[TriPolar]

Originally Posted by Malthus

Take the example of asking a guy visibly wearing a watch "do you have the time?".

The guy answers "sorry, no".

It's not the guy's job to give you the time, but what would you think of that guy after? Maybe he has a perfectly valid reason for not giving you the time of day. But if he says nothing more, you'd probably think he just doesn't like your face or something.

Perhaps I'm assuming too much about people. I would expect an adult to understand that there are many reasons they wouldn't be allowed to pet a dog.

Also, in the case of the time of day, a reasonable assumption is that the person asking has a need to know the time. Asking to pet a dog is not based on need.

Again, I'll point out that even rude old me would make more allowances for a child. And I'm generally not that curt anyway about dog petting or the time of day.

And one more little thing to clear up: Did the person (child or adult) making the request use the magic word?

[Lynn Bodoni]

Originally Posted by Malthus

Take the example of asking a guy visibly wearing a watch "do you have the time?".

The guy answers "sorry, no".

It's not the guy's job to give you the time, but what would you think of that guy after? Maybe he has a perfectly valid reason for not giving you the time of day. But if he says nothing more, you'd probably think he just doesn't like your face or something.

I'd assume that the guy's watch wasn't working well, or at all, or he'd forgotten that he was wearing it. Possibly I'd think that he thought I was trying to make small talk.

[Malthus]

Originally Posted by TriPolar

Perhaps I'm assuming too much about people. I would expect an adult to understand that there are many reasons they wouldn't be allowed to pet a dog.

Also, in the case of the time of day, a reasonable assumption is that the person asking has a need to know the time. Asking to pet a dog is not based on need.

Again, I'll point out that even rude old me would make more allowances for a child. And I'm generally not that curt anyway about dog petting or the time of day.

And one more little thing to clear up: Did the person (child or adult) making the request use the magic word?

Sure, no-one needs to pet a dog.

I don't think whether one gives a curt response to a child really depends on whether that child has asked for something she wants as opposed to something she needs - rather, it should be based on whether that child was acting politely herself when doing the asking.

Nothing in the OP indicated the child had acted rudely when asking to pet the dog.

[Malthus]

Originally Posted by Lynn Bodoni

I'd assume that the guy's watch wasn't working well, or at all, or he'd forgotten that he was wearing it. Possibly I'd think that he thought I was trying to make small talk.

The expression "he wouldn't even give you the time of day" doesn't spring to mind?

[TriPolar]

Originally Posted by Malthus

Sure, no-one needs to pet a dog.

I don't think whether one gives a curt response to a child really depends on whether that child has asked for something she wants as opposed to something she needs - rather, it should be based on whether that child was acting politely herself when doing the asking.

Nothing in the OP indicated the child had acted rudely when asking to pet the dog.

As I said, I wouldn't be curt with a child who was not rude. Children are exceptions.

[Bass Chick]

Originally Posted by CarnalK

In some cases, like this one, you don't need some strategy. Just the short and simple truth would have sufficed. Misanthropic people are often annoyed that the rest of society isn't as misanthropic as them - until they need directions or change for a dollar. So in the back of your mind, be quietly happy everyone doesn't share your hidden thoughts.

Thoughts are just that - thoughts. It's how a person chooses to act regarding those thoughts that determine who they really are.

[fluiddruid]

Originally Posted by TriPolar

Perhaps I'm assuming too much about people. I would expect an adult to understand that there are many reasons they wouldn't be allowed to pet a dog.

Hey, I'm one of those pesky people that does occasionally ask to pet other peoples' dogs. I only do this rarely but I absolutely love pugs, I have one myself, and I love to say hello to other pugs. Usually I only do this if it's in a setting like a farmer's market where people are milling around and the dogs are generally well socialized (not flagging someone down on a walk or anything). Or, at the dog park, assuming the dog is leashed and doesn't just come right up and lean on you for attention.

I totally understand why there are reasons why you might not be allowed to pet. I get that not all dogs like it. At the same time, if I got a "No" with no explanation, I'd feel, well, a bit deflated. It seems like pleasant social lubrication to give a quick reason, so it's not a "No, fuck you" or "No, you're weird" type of rejection -- "Sorry, no, he's a bit afraid of strangers" or "Sorry, no, we're learning leash manners today" is enough. Maybe it's my Midwestern sensibilities -- I find myself waving at policemen and UPS drivers, smiling and nodding at strangers who catch my eye, and all that. Just seems nice to make it clear it's not a "No, you weird sweaty dog-manhandling creeper, go away" response.

Now, I wouldn't go so far to say it's rude to just say no, it just feels weird to me. It's like saying "Hi, how are you?" to someone in passing, and them just ignoring you. They're not obliged to talk to you, it just feels weird, like a brush-off.

[TriPolar]

Originally Posted by fluiddruid

Now, I wouldn't go so far to say it's rude to just say no, it just feels weird to me. It's like saying "Hi, how are you?" to someone in passing, and them just ignoring you. They're not obliged to talk to you, it just feels weird, like a brush-off.

The phrase in question in this thread for me is "Sorry, no". I would have thought that was sufficient. But I would actually say something more in this case, and most others. My rudeness is usually reserved for much ruder questions in real life.

[billfish678]

Originally Posted by TriPolar

The phrase in question in this thread for me is "Sorry, no". I would have thought that was sufficient. .

Well, I think that the many people here that disagree with that should be a clue that you and the OP (and few of your fellow cohorts here) two will often be considered wrong and or rude by others that exist in society. Social norms define rudeness, not Vulcan logic.

You guys can bitch and moan about how "nobody deserves an explaination" and so and so on. But guess what? "Sorry, no" is going to be considered curt/rude by many people in this world. You want them to think you are rude? Fine do that. Its your reputation you are putting out there.

But don't keep acting like society is putting some kind of heavy burden on you by asking you for a one sentence explaination.

Yeah, the mother in the OP reacted rudely. But the OP ain't winning any awards for positive social behavior either IMO.

[Trinopus]

Originally Posted by stpauler

That's what I'm getting from this thread too. I think in the future, I'll give a little more like "Sorry, no, he's really shy."

This rather surprises me, as I thought "Sorry, no," was perfectly fine. But I guess it doesn't hurt any to add a few words of explanation, so this thread has been educational, at least.

My experience has often been the other way around; I'm out walking on a trail, and someone comes up with a dog, and the dog wants to be friends with me! Sniffs my pants, looks up at me with a big happy grin, etc. But even then, I ask the human: "He seems really friendly; can I let him sniff my hand?"

Never assume anything when it comes to other people's property...especially critters!

[TriPolar]

Originally Posted by billfish678

Well, I think that the many people here that disagree with that should be a clue that you and the OP (and few of your fellow cohorts here) two will often be considered wrong and or rude by others that exist in society. Social norms define rudeness, not Vulcan logic.

You guys can bitch and moan about how "nobody deserves an explaination" and so and so on. But guess what? "Sorry, no" is going to be considered curt/rude by many people in this world. You want them to think you are rude? Fine do that. Its your reputation you are putting out there.

But don't keep acting like society is putting some kind of heavy burden on you by asking you for a one sentence explaination.

Yeah, the mother in the OP reacted rudely. But the OP ain't winning any awards for positive social behavior either IMO.

I'll repeat again that I would add some more to a response than "Sorry, no". And I don't find it burdensome either. What I'm looking for is some sort of conclusion here, and I don't see an overwhelming number of people who think "Sorry, no" is rude. I think is still up in the air. Social norms aren't the same everywhere.

[IvoryTowerDenizen]

"Sorry, no" can be perfectly nice or curt and somewhat rude depending on the situation.

"Do you know what street the closest bus stop is?" "Sorry, no" is perfectly fine.

"Can I borrow your pen?" "Sorry, no" would be somewhat rude.

I guess it becomes borderline rude when the usual answer is "yes". Most people who have dogs out and about the general public are happy to have them petted by nice people. It's ok if you don't want to have your dog petted, but the expected answer is yes. A word of explanation makes it a courteous response.

[billfish678]

Originally Posted by TriPolar

I'll repeat again that I would add some more to a response than "Sorry, no". And I don't find it burdensome either. What I'm looking for is some sort of conclusion here, and I don't see an overwhelming number of people who think "Sorry, no" is rude. I think is still up in the air. Social norms aren't the same everywhere.

Virtually nobody here is considering it a positive though.

Lets see. "Sorry, no". Some fraction consider it neutral at best, good fraction think "rude/curt/dickish".

"Sorry, no, explaination X". Pretty much everbody agrees this is BETTER than just "Sorry, no".

Choices, choices! How complicated is this?

I've always though of myself as pretty socially stunted but dayum sometimes this place makes me feel like I could run a charm school.

[fluiddruid]

Originally Posted by TriPolar

The phrase in question in this thread for me is "Sorry, no". I would have thought that was sufficient.

I understand that that's the phrase you're using, I just have to reiterate that I would find it slightly offputting (though not outright rude). It just seems like the nice thing to do to give a few words why when it's a pretty innocuous request.

[TriPolar]

Originally Posted by fluiddruid

I understand that that's the phrase you're using, I just have to reiterate that I would find it slightly offputting (though not outright rude). It just seems like the nice thing to do to give a few words why when it's a pretty innocuous request.

Again, not using, attempting to get a clarification about.

[IvoryTowerDenizen]

Originally Posted by TriPolar

Again, not using, attempting to get a clarification about.

So substitute 'contemplating, asking about, questioning etc' into the sentence instead of 'using'. Answer still works.

[billfish678]

Originally Posted by TriPolar

Again, not using, attempting to get a clarification about.

Here's the answer to the question "is it polite to say "sorry, no""?

No.

[TriPolar]

Originally Posted by billfish678

Here's the answer to the question "is it polite to say "sorry, no""?

No.

Actually, as someone pointed out above, the question is "Is it impolite to say 'Sorry, no'". The trouble with your argument and others is that you assume that the reply is curt, but the definition of 'curt' is 'rudely brief'. Thus the determination must first be made if the replay is rude in order to call it curt. Terseness is not automatically curt. Politeness has to be based on a reasonable standard, not the least common denominator. The fact that some people would be offended means nothing. I don't think I need to explain all the ways that people can be offended even when they receive polite responses.

Let's take this to another thread.

[put down the sabre]

Yes, you were rude, or at least borderline so. Politeness is a social construct, and in situations like these, especially when dealing with kids, it is borderline rude to simply refuse a request, without giving some kind of explanation.

Saying 'sorry' before a flat refusal doesn't make it any more polite than saying 'no offence, but...' before an insult does.

I'll add that your demeanour in this thread has not been particularly polite, either.


Summary: saying 'sorry, no' is curt to the point of rudeness.

Not to say the mother wasn't also rude to badger you, though.

[billfish678]

Originally Posted by TriPolar

Let's take this to another thread.

Do a poll then. But please go to the trouble to have the choices be numerous and well thought out.

[Jackmannii]

Originally Posted by FloatyGimpy

Most children hear "don't pet strange dogs, they may bite" so asking "Does he bite?" seems like a pretty regular question.

I've decided my regular answer to "Does he BITE?" will be "Only when I want him to."

That'll help the kiddies learn to beware strange dogs and strange owners.

[Lynn Bodoni]

Originally Posted by Lynn Bodoni

I'd assume that the guy's watch wasn't working well, or at all, or he'd forgotten that he was wearing it. Possibly I'd think that he thought I was trying to make small talk.

Originally Posted by Malthus

The expression "he wouldn't even give you the time of day" doesn't spring to mind?

To me, "do you have the time?" is not an actual request to know the time, in most cases, but rather a conversation starter. Very occasionally someone has asked me the time, I've given it, and then they thank me (or not) and go on their merry way. Or hurried way. Instead, guys ask me the time (or did, back when I wore a watch) and then tried to chat me up. So, IME, asking for the time of day is actually an icebreaker most of the time, and is not a genuine anxiety that one is about to become a White Rabbit. YMMV.

[billfish678]

Originally Posted by Lynn Bodoni

To me, "do you have the time?" is not an actual request to know the time, in most cases, but rather a conversation starter. .

Your experiences with that question have nothing to do with the socially understood implications of "he wouldn't even give me the time of day".

Nice story but totally beside the point.

[pravnik]

I had a guy totally go off on me a while back when I asked if I could pet his dog. It's not like the dog was nervous about crowds or anything, either, there was literally nobody else around but the two of us. He didn't just say no, either, he starts freaking out, waving his arms and yelling a bunch of gibberish about "evacuation" and "bomb-sniffing" or something. Geez, sorry I asked, Mr. Grouchy!

[pulykamell]

Originally Posted by Lynn Bodoni

To me, "do you have the time?" is not an actual request to know the time, in most cases, but rather a conversation starter.

This is surprising to me, but, then again, I'm an average looking guy. Every time someone has asked me "do you have the time," their request was, quite plainly, for the time. Maybe if I had a pair of tits it would be different.

Wait, how is this relevant in a "Can I pet your dog" thread again?

[Autolycus]

Tits are always relevant.

Wait, what were we talking about again?

[rowrrbazzle]

Originally Posted by Taomist

1. At least the people asked! It's stupid when people don't ask; don't they realize it's an animal, not a robot?

2. No, you have no obligation to let people pet your dog.

You DO have two obligations, though.

1. To your pet, to not let them be petted when they don't want to be. That's just forcing them into situations they have no good way of dealing with.

2. To protect people FROM your pet, when said pet is not doing well in a social situation

So, you did fine. I'm sure all pet owners thank you for not backing down. People need to learn societal limits. Like taking no for an answer, not as an insult.

QFT.

We had a dog when I was a child. But with someone else's dog, I was taught always to ask permission to pet it, don't go near it when it's eating or it's a mother with her pups, and other common-sense things.

There are a lot of people out there who think they're ENTITLED to getting you to do whatever they want unless you can state a reason that satisfies THEM.

[Hilarity N. Suze]

You could get one of these and possibly wouldn't be asked the question so much.

I think these are a good idea for a reactive dog. You can't socialize the dog unless you can take him into the kinds of places he needs to get used to, but if you can't take him there because people are scaring him, then you can never get him used to them.

Besides this one I've linked to, I've also seen leashes that have the words woven in, along with an appropriate color. Red for don't pet, yellow for caution, green for okay to pet!

I don't think the OP was rude. I have a slightly reactive dog myself, and sometimes he gets all excited and barks. I wouldn't want him to bark at a friendly child and possibly scare the child away from dogs forever. If I have treats, I have sometimes asked a kid if he wanted to give him a treat, and this usually works but does not guarantee he'll sit still for petting afterward. But there are some days when "Sorry, no," has to be the answer. It's usually "Sorry, not today." I don't know if that's any better, and probably would apply to my situation (regular walks through the same neighborhoods) better than a one-time art fair.

[Lynn Bodoni]

Originally Posted by pulykamell

This is surprising to me, but, then again, I'm an average looking guy. Every time someone has asked me "do you have the time," their request was, quite plainly, for the time. Maybe if I had a pair of tits it would be different.

Wait, how is this relevant in a "Can I pet your dog" thread again?

If your measurements are 37-27-38, many guys will turn any conversation into a request for your contact info. Including a request for the time. Maybe he's curious as to the time, but he'll ask it of the woman with an hourglass figure.

It's relevant to this discussion because it shows that people will ask a person for something, and expect to get that something if they just use the word please.

Originally Posted by rowrrbazzle

QFT.

We had a dog when I was a child. But with someone else's dog, I was taught always to ask permission to pet it, don't go near it when it's eating or it's a mother with her pups, and other common-sense things.

There are a lot of people out there who think they're ENTITLED to getting you to do whatever they want unless you can state a reason that satisfies THEM.

Exactly my point. It's not particularly rude to say "No, sorry" because you don't want to play the game of "I'll come up with reasons why I don't want to do whatever you want, and they won't satisfy you", which can be quite time consuming.

Nobody is owed an explanation. Not even a little kid. I don't have to say "Oh, I am SO broke right now" when someone asks me to donate to a charity, even if the asker says "Please please PLEASE". And I sure as hell don't have to prove how broke I am. I don't have to tell someone why I don't want to participate in a "volunteer" position at work (party planning committee, etc.) (and I use quotes for volunteer, because a lot of time it's not really voluntary). When I say "Sorry, no", that is or should be enough.

Each of us has the right to set our own limits on social interactions. We are not obliged to coo over babies and brides unless we're actually, you know, related to the baby or bride in question. And even then, we don't have to coo endlessly. We are not obliged to play the "Why?" game with random kids, you know, when you make a statement and the kid says "Why?", not out of curiosity on the subject, but just to keep you talking to him or her.

[Malthus]

Originally Posted by Lynn Bodoni

If your measurements are 37-27-38, many guys will turn any conversation into a request for your contact info. Including a request for the time. Maybe he's curious as to the time, but he'll ask it of the woman with an hourglass figure.

It's relevant to this discussion because it shows that people will ask a person for something, and expect to get that something if they just use the word please.

Exactly my point. It's not particularly rude to say "No, sorry" because you don't want to play the game of "I'll come up with reasons why I don't want to do whatever you want, and they won't satisfy you", which can be quite time consuming.

Nobody is owed an explanation. Not even a little kid. I don't have to say "Oh, I am SO broke right now" when someone asks me to donate to a charity, even if the asker says "Please please PLEASE". And I sure as hell don't have to prove how broke I am. I don't have to tell someone why I don't want to participate in a "volunteer" position at work (party planning committee, etc.) (and I use quotes for volunteer, because a lot of time it's not really voluntary). When I say "Sorry, no", that is or should be enough.

Each of us has the right to set our own limits on social interactions. We are not obliged to coo over babies and brides unless we're actually, you know, related to the baby or bride in question. And even then, we don't have to coo endlessly. We are not obliged to play the "Why?" game with random kids, you know, when you make a statement and the kid says "Why?", not out of curiosity on the subject, but just to keep you talking to him or her.

You have every right in the world to be rude to strangers. Do not be surprised, however, if others find it rude.

In the case of the OP, no-one is suggesting that the fellow had to engage these people in debate. Nor is anyone claiming that the mom wasn't rude herself to question the decision, once made. However, there is no reason to assume in advance that a kid and mom at a street art fair are going to be rude, and so use pre-emptory rudeness on them.

Same with someone asking for the time. Sure, you can judge that the person isn't really asking for the time, but wants your number (or worse, is setting you up for a mugging, or whatever). Then, be as rude as you want. The only consequences are that, if you are wrong, people will think you are rude, because you quite literally will not give them the time of day. Imagine if the person who asked you for the time turns out to be anxious to be on time to interview you for a job opening. Awkward!

Myself, I prefer to be polite to people until they have, you know, actually demostrated some offensive behavior that justifies not being polite to them. I do not count a child asking politely to pet one's animal, or a person asking politely for the time, has acted offensively. Hence, the default setting is to treat them politely. At least initially. Should they then go on to act impolitely, be curt in return.

[billfish678]

Originally Posted by Malthus

. Imagine if the person who asked you for the time turns out to be anxious to be on time to interview you for a job opening. Awkward!

Reminds me of something I've almost started a thread about a couple of times. If I am at home, I don't plop down on a chair for hours on end. I'll got outside 2 or 3 times an hour for 5 to 10 minutes. Pretty much every hour I am home and awake.

So, I am often out front watching the birds, squirrels, airplanes, clouds, approaching thunderstorms, sunrises, sunsets, the stars, satellites, people walking their dogs, people running, walking, driving by blah blah blah.

I "know" a bunch of my distant neighbors only in the fact I see them going by. I wave, they nod or wave and its all good. The old fart in the red Toyota. That teenage boy in the heavily modified junker. That preacher down the street and his wife in the Lincoln town car. Some are more friendly than others, but we generally acknowledge each others existence with a wave, a nod, or a smile.

Then there are the people walking or running by. I'll say hi or wave and if it seems they want to engage in some friendly chatting I am happy to do it. If not, a nod or something is perfectly okay by me and off they continue.

Except for one guy and his wife who walk by every day. They won't even acknowledge my very existence. No eye contact. Nothing. This has been going on for years. Technically they don't have to.

But guess what? If I see him broke down alongside the road how friendly and helpful do you think I'm going to be feeling?

[CarnalK]

Originally Posted by Lynn Bodoni

If your measurements are 37-27-38, many guys will turn any conversation into a request for your contact info. Including a request for the time. Maybe he's curious as to the time, but he'll ask it of the woman with an hourglass figure.

Umm, is anyone in this conversation 37-27-38? And the OP was asked by a Mom and child... would this hypothetical hourglass figured lady suspect they were hitting on her?

It's relevant to this discussion because it shows that people will ask a person for something, and expect to get that something if they just use the word please.

Yes, there's all sorts of conversations going on out there. Regardless, a simple short explanation added to a curt "no" is simple politeness. If it turns out the question was some insidious plot to ask you out on a date, then feel free to be rude.

[PunditLisa]

Originally Posted by billfish678

Except for one guy and his wife who walk by every day. They won't even acknowledge my very existence. No eye contact. Nothing. This has been going on for years. Technically they don't have to.

My good friend and neighbor, who I'll call Miss Congeniality (MC), is a waver. Our mutual neighbor, K, is not. They were casual friends, too, hanging out on each other's porches on occasion. Still, K would not return the wave. And it bugged MC to no end.

This went on for years. MC went through several phases, from ignoring K altogether (that'll sting!) to hugely exaggerated smiles and waves. Still nothing. Then one summer day, Miss Congeniality had had ENOUGH. She waved as K passed by. And when she got nothing back, she stepped into the street and raised her middle finger...just in time to see K raise her hand to wave back, for the very first time.

Awkward!

Now we're back to square one again.

[Sam I Am]

I have two young girls that like dogs, so any walk I take with them is punctuated with them asking strangers "Hi, please may I pet your dog?". We have our OWN dog, but of course the grass is greener...

As far as I am concerned, my girls and I know that we are intruding* on someone else's day/time/space when we ask. If we get the response "sorry, no", I wouldn't have a problem with that. If it bothered the girls, I would have reminded them (likely out of earshot) that we are intruding, that the dog could be skittish, the owner in a hurry, etc., and that's exactly why we ask first.

Some people will reinforce the girls' approach ("Thank you for asking first"), some will explain why they can't pet the dog if they can't, but I don't think it's rude not to do that. It's all a learning experience for the kids.

Now, the parent disagreeing with you over saying no - she is in the wrong!

*Intruding is how I see it, as an introvert, anyway. I know others may not.

[billfish678]

Originally Posted by PunditLisa

.

Awkward!

Now we're back to square one again.

That was funny.

[An Gadaí]

It has never once occurred to me to ask could I pet a dog.

[pulykamell]

Originally Posted by An Gadaí

It has never once occurred to me to ask could I pet a dog.

Huh. Even when I didn't own a dog (which is 99% of my life), I was always taught it was polite to ask. I was even at a farmer's market today where a child got yelled at by his mother for not asking first. Must be a cultural difference (as I understand you're from Ireland. ETA: Or maybe it's Northern Ireland. At any rate, not from my geographic/cultural background.)

[elbows]

I think kids are taught in school here, with an unfamiliar dog, they should always ask first.

You have no obligation, of course. But if the amount of social interchange required in explaining to others is too great for you (no harm, no foul, I've had those days!), put a tag on him "I'm having a grumpy day!". It would take a second to do, save you the polite interchange you seem to find imposing and tedious.

You will not be questioned, people will get it, the dog will be fine.

And the villagers can rejoice!

[StarvingButStrong]

It's never occured to me to ask if I could pet a dog, either.

Of course that's because I don't walk around *wanting* to pet strange dogs. My own pets, sure. The pets of my friends that I'm around long enough to get to know and be known? Yes. But I just don't get wanting to fondle random dogs.

I wish dogs in general well, don't get me wrong. I hope they are happy and healthy, but I have no desire to touch them.

[billfish678]

Originally Posted by StarvingButStrong

Of course that's because I don't walk around *wanting* to pet strange dogs. My own pets, sure. The pets of my friends that I'm around long enough to get to know and be known? Yes. But I just don't get wanting to fondle random dogs.
.

I don't pet dogs so much because I personally get anything out of it. I got pets at home I can and do fondle 24/7 (just ask em). Its because most dogs really like meeting and getting petted by strangers. It also helps a dog to become more socialized and therefore less likely to act up, be scared, or bit someone while they are in public. So, you are being nice to the dog and helping the dog become a better dog.

We've had a new guy walking his dog through the neighborhood lately. His dog is about a 35 pounder. First time I saw him I said hi and asked if I could pet her. He told me she was skittish around other people and dogs. I told him I understood and I'd take the risk but maybe we could work on that. He agreed. So, now everytime he swings by I pet her and I often go get our dog for a moment. She's still a bit shy but she is getting better.

[Lynn Bodoni]

I've seen a blind woman get totally confused by her dog's signals, because someone just came up and petted the dog without saying anything to the woman. I spoke up, loudly, and said that the dog was getting petted by a stranger who clearly didn't understand that the dog was working right now.

The petter seemed to be embarrassed, but he quit petting the dog. And the dog went back to being on duty.

However, when I was growing up, my mother was friends with a blind couple, so I learned early on about asking someone if I could pet the dog, and to not bother a working dog, even if the dog would enjoy being petted.

[An Gadaí]

Originally Posted by pulykamell

Huh. Even when I didn't own a dog (which is 99% of my life), I was always taught it was polite to ask. I was even at a farmer's market today where a child got yelled at by his mother for not asking first. Must be a cultural difference (as I understand you're from Ireland. ETA: Or maybe it's Northern Ireland. At any rate, not from my geographic/cultural background.)

I really don't know. I suspect here though if you had a dog that was skittish enough to attack a child that randomly petted it then it would be muzzled in public/social situations like the OP described. I don't see that many muzzled dogs though. Some dogs obviously aren't interested in human contact so I wouldn't go near them but I can't speak for wee kids. Maybe it's more common here too that dogs walk around off a lead on streets without their owner obviously nearby?

[pulykamell]

Yeah, walking a dog off-lead/leash here in an urban environment--well, I don't consider that too cool, unless it's done in specially designated areas. It pissed me off before I had a dog, because when I jogged through the neighborhood those yappy little fucks would come and try to nip at my heels. And, now, I have a breed of dog that is looked at askance by a lot of folks, so if something happens and a small off-leash dog provokes mine (who seems so far not to be easily provoked), who's going to get in trouble? And then I won't even start about the people who let their pitbulls run off leash at 2 a.m. for their exercise, so when my wife goes out to grab something from her car, she gets charged at by an unfamiliar (although friendly) 60 pound dog made of pure muscle, who just wants to say "hello!" If you live in a metropolitan area, keep that dog on a leash.

[raventhief]

I am very much a dog person, and love to meet new pups, but I do always ask. If the person said just “sorry, no,” I would feel a bit rebuffed, but I’d assume the dog had issues with socialization. It might cross my mind that the owner did too.

I have two dogs right now, one who takes stranger attention in stride and loves being petted, and one who…does not. The one who doesn’t needs more socialization, and we’re working on that. She reacts badly to people who are not “her family” being anywhere near her. If I am walking with the dogs and someone asks if they can pet my dogs, I always say, yes, you can love on the black and white lady, but keep your distance from the brown pup, she is very nervous about stranger danger! I don’t use those exact words, but I make sure they understand. Honestly, I am thrilled that sometimes rambunctious kids know to ASK so I would not want to come across as brusque. I want to encourage that kind of behavior, so I make sure I answer kindly. And some part of my brain feels like if my nervous nelly hears my calm, conversational tone, she will feel these strangers are more “okay” in her book. Silly, I know, but I feel like if I brushed the kids off and strode away, the idea that they are dangerous might be reinforced in her fluffy little head. Kids are fascinated by furry critters, and I understand that fascination.

Incidentally, I am a girl, and any time I’ve been asked the time, I assume it’s because they really want to know the time. It rarely is a pretext to chat me up – except in a bar or somewhere similar.

[mlees]

"Does your dog bite?"

"No."

Grrrrowff! Chomp!!

"I thought you said your dog doesn't bite!?"

"That is not my dog."

[Ulfreida]

My life more or less revolves around dogs, and I NEVER pet other people's dogs, unless the dog very obviously initiates contact with me, and you'd be surprised how rarely this happens if you are completely neutral in demeanor.

If you go to a sheepdog trial or other gathering where there are a lot of highly trained dogs accompanied by experienced dog people, you won't see anybody petting anyone else's dog. Or talking to them. Or staring into their faces. It is considered to be stupid, ill-mannered, and quite possibly dangerous behavior. Frankly I do not understand the obsession with petting other people's dogs. If you could read dog body language you'd see that the majority of dogs only tolerate it, they don't enjoy it, and for many dogs, it is quite a strain to tolerate it. And then there are the dogs who cannot tolerate it. Petting other people's dogs is selfish, it is only for YOUR pleasure, not the dog's, even if the dog does an obsequious puppy-crawl with flattened ears for you.

I have one dog who really distrusts strangers. He also has quite poor bite inhibition. I've had total strangers push me aside, grab my dog by the face and make kissy kissy sounds, saying "Oh dogs love me!" These people will be lucky to avoid plastic surgery, with this habit. Children are by and large much easier to dissuade, than these adults with bizarrely over-inflated self-images of how loveable they are to animals. I just smile apologetically and say, "my dog doesn't do well meeting people, sorry." He does wear a muzzle in places where I am going to encounter a lot of people. Not that he would randomly bite someone, it just keeps people away.

It's always good to be polite if you can avoid being rude, in my opinion. Just works out better. However, I have had to almost literally fight people off to protect my dog from them, so I see the OP's point.

The only thing you owe strangers, while walking your dog in public, is to prevent your dog from biting them.