Mods/Admins, seriously stop it with the "Pls help, I need money" threads.

[TriPolar]

Originally Posted by Telemark

Not really. It can check for basic correctness (not political, not illegal) without any further vetting because this is a different type of thread. I do that on a board I moderate just to make sure something doesn't break the ground rules. Beyond that there's no editorial control.

Ok, but it's still pre-approval. If it's that minimal, then they should say so, and then everybody would know that saying a thread has mod approval means nothing. This is a type of thread where you need pre-approval. Other's don't. That approval comes from mods. It's either random, arbitrary, or there's a standard. But the mods are saying the thread is approved, and that's not the case with other threads. We don't if a mod has ever read any particular OP or post, but in this case they are claiming that they have done so before it was posted. That's different from other threads and posts.

[LavenderBlue]

Originally Posted by Lute Skywatcher

In my case, I was looking toward Dopers if what we had saved + money from my sister came up short, without getting into the financial quagmire that would have come with borrowing against my retirement account. I met my sister's conditions and she sent enough to combine with our savings to pay for the parts and spread out the labor over a few months. All monies sent by Dopers would have been returned anyway because they were not needed.

Some of you won't believe that but whatever.

The bottom line is that you were asking for money to help keep a bunny air conditioned. Worse, you admitted you had the money on hand but it would be too much much of a pain in the rear for you to get it. That's not what most people think of as a worthy charity.

The Getty Owl Foundation, (run by a doper and designed to help really sick kids) is what most of us think of as more appropriate.

[Lute Skywatcher]

Originally Posted by LavenderBlue

Worse, you admitted you had the money on hand but it would be too much much of a pain in the rear for you to get it.

Not just "a pain in the rear"; I could have easly gone into default on such a loan due to the way that retirement account is set up.

[LavenderBlue]

Originally Posted by Lute Skywatcher

Not just "a pain in the rear"; I could have easly gone into default on such a loan due to the way that retirement account is set up.

Not to be a dick but that's still not a problem for Dopers to help solve. You should have talked to your bank or your financial planner or your company's HR department first instead of asking Dopers to contribute to get air conditioning for your bunny. The fundamental point is that you admit you had the money to fix the problem.

Please tell me you see the difference between your "problem" and that of the Doper who reasonably asks for money for research into and equipment for his baby daughter's horrible medical condition.



The Getty Owl Foundation is the sort of cause that should be allowed. The give me money so I can get air conditioning because I don't want to touch my retirement fund is not.

It was mocked and rightfully so.

[TriPolar]

Originally Posted by Lute Skywatcher

Not just "a pain in the rear"; I could have easly gone into default on such a loan due to the way that retirement account is set up.

You didn't reveal all the relevant details up front.

[Lute Skywatcher]

Originally Posted by LavenderBlue

Please tell me you see the difference between your "problem" and that of the Doper who reasonably asks for money for research into and equipment for his baby daughter's horrible medical condition.



The Getty Owl Foundation is the sort of cause that should be allowed. The give me money so I can get air conditioning because I don't want to touch my retirement fund is not.

Please tell me where it says you get final say on what Dopers can contribute to.

[Lute Skywatcher]

Originally Posted by TriPolar

You didn't reveal all the relevant details up front.

Right. My bad.

[LavenderBlue]

Originally Posted by Lute Skywatcher

Please tell me where it says you get final say on what Dopers can contribute to.

I don't. But, like my fellow Dopers, I get to mock them when I find them stupid. I've personally been scammed by someone a few years ago. It's annoying. Worse it makes it that much harder for real causes to get noticed and funded.

Do you really want to rehash this? Because I believe you admitted you were in the wrong.

[Colibri]

Originally Posted by bucketybuck

With all due respect, there is no need for serious vetting of requests, we are just suggesting that you ask one simple question, "what do you need it for?"

Take the bunny cooler for example. One thing that struck me at the time was it seemed like the mods had not even asked him what he wanted the money for. Everything in his OP screamed that it was not life or death levels of poverty, yet somehow he was allowed to post the request.

...

Sounds simple but fuck me I would almost bet some English pounds that when Lute Skywatcher posted his Bunny comforts requests that nobody had actually asked him what he wanted the money for.

Basically he sent us the same information that was in his OP, saying he needed it to fix his AC. He left out a lot of the other relevant details. Once we found out the actual situation, the thread was closed. As Idle Thoughts acknowledged when he closed the thread, we should have examined it more thoroughly. (But "life or death levels of poverty" is not a requirement for us to allow a thread.)

Here a suggestion for you. Next time a poster requests permission to ask for money, tell them to submit a copy of their proposed OP via PM. All the info required should be there and the mods can make a yes/no judgement from there, job done.

We do require such proposals. Since the above situation developed, we have been looking at them more critically than before. Even so, as has been said above, we have no way of knowing for sure if someone is accurately presenting their case. So you're always going to have to depend on your own judgement as to whether to contribute.

[Colibri]

Originally Posted by Lute Skywatcher

Please tell me where it says you get final say on what Dopers can contribute to.

Originally Posted by LavenderBlue

I don't. But, like my fellow Dopers, I get to mock them when I find them stupid. I've personally been scammed by someone a few years ago. It's annoying. Worse it makes it that much harder for real causes to get noticed and funded.

Do you really want to rehash this? Because I believe you admitted you were in the wrong.

[Moderating]

Let's not get into an argument about this situation in this thread. The Pit is still available if you want to revisit it.

Colibri

[not what you'd expect]

I want to help when I can.

Unless someone makes a habit of it, I'm not going to suspect a scam from a doper who has been here for years. And so long as they are honest about the need, I have no problem with it. After the last incident, it must have been especially difficult to ask for some help here.

[Guinastasia]

Originally Posted by bucketybuck

Here a suggestion for you. Next time a poster requests permission to ask for money, tell them to submit a copy of their proposed OP via PM. All the info required should be there and the mods can make a yes/no judgement from there, job done. Sounds simple but fuck me I would almost bet some English pounds that when Lute Skywatcher posted his Bunny comforts requests that nobody had actually asked him what he wanted the money for.

I seem to recall that that used to be the rule -- you had to have the mods permission before starting a solicitation thread.

[IvoryTowerDenizen]

You still do. Each of these threads in question indicated that they had permission.

I think what being suggested is not just asking permission but providing the actual OP, so it can be looked at.

[Lute Skywatcher]

Originally Posted by Colibri

Basically he sent us the same information that was in his OP, saying he needed it to fix his AC. He left out a lot of the other relevant details. Once we found out the actual situation, the thread was closed. As Idle Thoughts acknowledged when he closed the thread, we should have examined it more thoroughly. (But "life or death levels of poverty" is not a requirement for us to allow a thread.)

AC and, eventually, heat for everyone and everything that resides within these walls. Some people chose to ignore that and focus on the rabbit but, as I said earlier, whatever.

[Loach]

Originally Posted by Lute Skywatcher

AC and, eventually, heat for everyone and everything that resides within these walls. Some people chose to ignore that and focus on the rabbit but, as I said earlier, whatever.

Do you really want to go though this again? As was pointed out no air conditioning is not the same as no heat. Plenty of us grew up with no air conditioning. And the argument that there is no heat and it will become a problem doesn't hold much weight at the beginning of summer. It was clear you had a problem. It was also clear you were not to the point that begging was necessary. It really isn't a big deal. But if you keep wanting to rehash it people will join in. Sure it's bound to come up for a while when the subject comes up. But let it go and it will just become part of the background noise.

[Guinastasia]

Originally Posted by Lute Skywatcher

AC and, eventually, heat for everyone and everything that resides within these walls. Some people chose to ignore that and focus on the rabbit but, as I said earlier, whatever.

People also gave you tons of other suggestions, and ways to keep your pets cool, but you kept waving them away. THEN you blamed it on your depression. Sorry, no dice.

[aldiboronti]

Any misgivings I may have had about this have been entirely dispelled by TubaDiva's post. I wouldn't argue with a word of it. This is a community and that's what community members do, help each other out in times of trouble. Sure, the generosity of members could be taken advantage of, but we have the admins and mods as our first line of defense and anyway Dopers are a pretty astute bunch and I fancy it wouldn't be easy to pull the wool over their eyes for long.

[twickster]

People, Lute Skywalker is not the issue here, and neither are the details of that incident. Anyone who wants to rehash them should go to the Pit.

Consider this a moderator instruction, and ignore it at your own peril.

twickster, for the SDMB

[Shakes]

Originally Posted by Fenris

How about, at bare minimum, a modicum of judgement on which beg-a-thons to allow. I mean, granted, there're bound to be some grey areas but it shouldn't be too hard to distinguish between

A) I'm homeless, and posting from the public library while living in an abandoned refrigerator box. And I've been eating nothing the fine selection of products available from McDonald's dumpsters
vs
B) My bunny-wunnies need air conditioning. And I don't want to touch my savings account or retirement funds

or

A) My wife has cancer and needs an expensive experimental drug that has a 90% chance of curing her but the insurance company won't cover it.
vs
B) I want to go to school to become a web-cartoonist because of the wide-open opportunities there.

or even

A) My computer broke and while I'm making ends meet, I really can't afford a new one. Anyone able to help with an old computer?
vs
B) Hi, I'm a known mooch on the SDMB, and I made some dumbass decisions that really aren't going to ruin my life, just make things uncomfortable for me for a while. Gimme money so I don't have to worry about the consequences.

It's really not hard to distinguish between real, honest emergencies and people who just want free stuff.

I mean, seriously. If the standard is "I don't want to spend money that I have in savings (retirement or otherwise) to buy air-conditioning for my bunnie-wunnies" then I'd like to ask permission to start a "Get Fenris a shiny new iPad3, 64 gigs...oh, and a couple of 3 Tb Hdds. Oh, and a few rare books I've always wanted" thread.

Do I have permission to do so? Because, hey...I need these things and I'd rather spend Doper's money than my own.

Thank you for this Fenris, I haven't laughed so hard in as long damn time.

[Fenris]

Originally Posted by Shakes

Thank you for this Fenris, I haven't laughed so hard in as long damn time.

You're more than welcome. If my post amused you, please send money to the "Upgrade Fenris's iPad*" fund.

All donations can be sent to my attorney

Jay Krackle,
Snap, Krackle & Pop Attorneys at Law
One Kellogg Square
P.O. Box 3599
Battle Creek, MI 49016-3599

Please send small, unmarked non-sequential bills.

The "Upgrade Fenris's iPad fund" is a division of the Fenris Fund^tm

THE FENRIS FUND. Remember our motto: People helping people helping Fenris^tm

*I...did mention that I have an iPad already, right? But it's a 1st Gen, it only has 32 gigs and, of course, tint-control.

[IvoryTowerDenizen]

Do you want a Banana Jr while you're at it?

[splatterpunk]

Originally Posted by aldiboronti

...we have the admins and mods as our first line of defense...

Have you read any post in this thread besides Tuba's? The two questionable threads mentioned here were both approved by admins and mods.

[billfish678]

Originally Posted by Fenris

THE FENRIS FUND. Remember our motto: People helping people helping Fenris^tm

Wait one minute. I thought the mailing address was for Kruger Industrial Smoothing, care of Koko Castansa.

[aldiboronti]

Originally Posted by splatterpunk

Have you read any post in this thread besides Tuba's? The two questionable threads mentioned here were both approved by admins and mods.

Of course I have. You'll notice that I spoke of the mods as being the first line of defense. Perhaps you missed that. It can sometimes be difficult to maintain one's concentration through a whole post.

[splatterpunk]

Originally Posted by aldiboronti

Of course I have. You'll notice that I spoke of the mods as being the first line of defense. Perhaps you missed that. It can sometimes be difficult to maintain one's concentration through a whole post.

So how effective is this first line of defense if these questionable threads are approved by the administration? That's what this entire thread is about. Not to mention that we have one admin stating that these requests are seriously vetted, and another who says, essentially, "oh, no we can't do that..." This does not sound like a very formidable "line of defense" to me.

And I didn't miss anything in your post. You'll notice that I didn't bother to respond to this little gem:

Dopers are a pretty astute bunch and I fancy it wouldn't be easy to pull the wool over their eyes for long

umkay...

[Colibri]

Originally Posted by Guinastasia

I seem to recall that that used to be the rule -- you had to have the mods permission before starting a solicitation thread.

You could also have determined that it is still a rule by reading the posts by moderators in this thread.

Originally Posted by IvoryTowerDenizen

You still do. Each of these threads in question indicated that they had permission.

I think what being suggested is not just asking permission but providing the actual OP, so it can be looked at.

As I said above, they generally do.

Originally Posted by splatterpunk

Have you read any post in this thread besides Tuba's? The two questionable threads mentioned here were both approved by admins and mods.

Have you read my post, Marley's posts, and Dex's post? As we've repeatedly said, it's up to you to determine whether you feel it's something you want to donate to. You are free to ask questions of the requester. If you don't think it's worthy, then don't donate.

[jackdavinci]

If anything, I think the worst result is that it will cause the mods extra work or headaches. If they want to take that on, bravo for them.

Personally I never give money unless I have zero expectations about the ultimate outcome. If that homeless guy is asking for food money but spends it on cough syrup, hey maybe that's what he really needs in that moment. If someone misuses my charity, that's on their karma.

So if you are worried about being scammed, just ignore those threads.

Personally I was benefitted by a donated membership while unemployed, and I'm very grateful that was possible.

[Lute Skywatcher]

Originally Posted by Loach

Do you really want to go though this again? As was pointed out no air conditioning is not the same as no heat. Plenty of us grew up with no air conditioning. And the argument that there is no heat and it will become a problem doesn't hold much weight at the beginning of summer. It was clear you had a problem. It was also clear you were not to the point that begging was necessary. It really isn't a big deal. But if you keep wanting to rehash it people will join in. Sure it's bound to come up for a while when the subject comes up. But let it go and it will just become part of the background noise.

Hell, I even joked about it in MPSIMS recently! I'd prefer people keep their facts straight, though, but that's also my fault for not being clear in the first place.

I'll shut up now.

[twickster]

Originally Posted by Lute Skywatcher

Hell, I even joked about it in MPSIMS recently! I'd prefer people keep their facts straight, though, but that's also my fault for not being clear in the first place.

I'll shut up now.

I strongly encourage you to, since my post upthread applies to you as well:

Originally Posted by twickster

People, Lute Skywalker is not the issue here, and neither are the details of that incident. Anyone who wants to rehash them should go to the Pit.

Consider this a moderator instruction, and ignore it at your own peril.

twickster, for the SDMB

[Colibri]

Originally Posted by Marley23

We do vet all threads of this type, and we're trying that much hard to evaluate them carefully after the bunny thread. .... We can't do very much to prove the people asking for money are telling the truth, and for that reason and because it's just good common sense, we've always encouraged people to think carefully about these situations and come to their own conclusions.

Originally Posted by C K Dexter Haven

ON THE TOPIC: Sorry to disillusion y'all, but (generally speaking) mods don't do any serious vetting of requests beyond superficial levels. We can't -- we don't have the resources or the time to check whether someone is expressing a legitimate need or not. We don't ask for bank statements, sworn affadavits, or a credit check. We just take the person pretty much at their word.

Originally Posted by splatterpunk

Not to mention that we have one admin stating that these requests are seriously vetted, and another who says, essentially, "oh, no we can't do that..."

I'm not seeing a serious conflict between Marley's and Dex's statements. We do vet requests to the extent we can, but we can't do any serious investigation beyond what people tell us.

[billfish678]

Originally Posted by jackdavinci

So if you are worried about being scammed, just ignore those threads.

I'd agree with that for the most part with one caveat. That in those threads it is pefectly acceptable to question the reasons for asking for the money as well as arguing why said person does not "deserve" the money. Neither behavior in my opinion should be construed as either thread shitting or the poster asking the hard questions being told "if you don't like it don't participate". Consider it as a group sanity check I suppose. If you need/want the help that bad you can suck it up. I guess you can sorta do that now, but I don't think it has been codified that such behaviours are perfectly acceptable in such threads.

[TriPolar]

Originally Posted by Colibri

I'm not seeing a serious conflict between Marley's and Dex's statements. We do vet requests to the extent we can, but we can't do any serious investigation beyond what people tell us.

So if it's not an overt request to run a scam then it gets approved?

[Loach]

Originally Posted by aldiboronti

Any misgivings I may have had about this have been entirely dispelled by TubaDiva's post. I wouldn't argue with a word of it. This is a community and that's what community members do, help each other out in times of trouble. Sure, the generosity of members could be taken advantage of, but we have the admins and mods as our first line of defense and anyway Dopers are a pretty astute bunch and I fancy it wouldn't be easy to pull the wool over their eyes for long.

I would argue with it. To me right now it's in some sort of untenable middle ground. Permission has to be asked but they really don't check and buyer beware. IMHO which will be ignored is either they reserve these threads to those that are in desperate need such as critical health problems or eviction or something like that or just opening a sub-forum and let anyone ask. I don't expect the mods to be detectives and ensure the 100% accuracy of the problem but there needs to be a consistent level of need for the begging posts or just let them all happen and have the dopers make up their own minds.

Originally Posted by Lute Skywatcher

Hell, I even joked about it in MPSIMS recently! I'd prefer people keep their facts straight, though, but that's also my fault for not being clear in the first place.

I'll shut up now.

FTR I certainly don't hold it against you and I'm glad you can joke about it now.

[Colibri]

Originally Posted by TriPolar

So if it's not an overt request to run a scam then it gets approved?

That's not what I said. We evaluate requests on a case by case basis. I'm not going to discuss hypotheticals, since the specific case is what's going to matter.

Really, although there have been several such threads lately, we don't have all that many of them in total.

[BigT]

Originally Posted by Loach

Since it looks like CK is opening the flood gates now I'll just automatically ignore any pleas. I would otherwise have been inclined to help with those in genuine need.

You would intentionally hurt people you would otherwise have helped because you didn't get your way on a message board? You somehow think such an unethical stance is going to change anyone's mind here?

Because that is what it seemingly boils down to: ethical people versus selfish people. The former can't stand the idea of one legitimate cause being left out. The latter can't stand the idea of one illegitimate idea taking up their time--the super long amount of time it takes to read a freaking post.

The Dope is not here to do your thinking for you. The mods are not going to coddle you and decide for you what deserves your attention and what doesn't.

What surprises me most though is that Fenris of all people is on the "coddle me" side.

EDIT: And why in the world don't you just pit the people who do something you don't like? Oh, wait, such pit threads often go awry. So you're jumping to the mods to force your opinions. Funny how that was a horrible idea when it was done about Bo's catchphrase.

[TriPolar]

Originally Posted by Colibri

That's not what I said. We evaluate requests on a case by case basis. I'm not going to discuss hypotheticals, since the specific case is what's going to matter.

Really, although there have been several such threads lately, we don't have all that many of them in total.

Ok, fair enough. If it continues hopefully it evolves to the point where there are some known guidelines.

[Beastly Rotter]

Originally Posted by TriPolar

Ok, fair enough. If it continues hopefully it evolves to the point where there are some known guidelines.

They need Heart, Drive and Hustle. They're my three miniature schnauzers; anyone who volunteers to walk all three of them gets the dough.

[Rilchiam]

Originally Posted by Colibri

Really, although there have been several such threads lately, we don't have all that many of them in total.

How many do there have to be before concerns like those expressed by Shakes and Fenris get taken seriously?

[kambuckta]

Oh for goodness sakes people. It is tres simple. On a messageboard that has become a virtual community, why shouldn't members be able to ask for help? We ask for medical advice, psychological assistance, building tips, recipes.....and for some of us sometimes financial help is needed.

If you don't want to assist, don't. But don't shit on the person needing that help by denying them the right to ask. I have helped a couple of members who were experiencing difficult times (because I was able to at the time). And I don't regret it one iota. Some requests have raised my eyebrow a few centimetres, but it is my choice to help or not as the case may be.

It isn't rocket surgery.....let the mods vet requests (so that blow-ins aren't able to do a shifty begging routine) but let the longer term members have the opportunity to ask for help as needed.

See? Simple!!

[Mame]

What Kam said.

[Cicero]

Obviously begging requests need to go to the Market Place.

Only legitimate requests, need to be a member and seen by folks with green stuff to spend.

Problem solved.

[Loach]

Originally Posted by Colibri

That's not what I said. We evaluate requests on a case by case basis. I'm not going to discuss hypotheticals, since the specific case is what's going to matter.

Really, although there have been several such threads lately, we don't have all that many of them in total.

That's kind of the point. Such requests were rare. When they were allowed it was for dire need. The bar seems to have been lowered considerably. Hence the thread. You can allow all of them without approval and I wouldn't care a bit. I just would or wouldn't open them. As with many of these threads it's more about inconsistencies in enforcement or a perceived unannounced change in the rules.

Originally Posted by BigT

You would intentionally hurt people you would otherwise have helped because you didn't get your way on a message board? You somehow think such an unethical stance is going to change anyone's mind here?

Because that is what it seemingly boils down to: ethical people versus selfish people. The former can't stand the idea of one legitimate cause being left out. The latter can't stand the idea of one illegitimate idea taking up their time--the super long amount of time it takes to read a freaking post.

The Dope is not here to do your thinking for you. The mods are not going to coddle you and decide for you what deserves your attention and what doesn't.

What surprises me most though is that Fenris of all people is on the "coddle me" side.

EDIT: And why in the world don't you just pit the people who do something you don't like? Oh, wait, such pit threads often go awry. So you're jumping to the mods to force your opinions. Funny how that was a horrible idea when it was done about Bo's catchphrase.

I know you are the self appointed moral authority on the board. You suck at your job. The occasional plea for a dire emergency will get my attention and help if possible. Increasing numbers of threads asking for money for problems that are less dire than most of my normal days will make such requests fade into background noise. It's as simple as that.

[Bob Ducca]

The only guideline that I feel should be implemented is a requirement to add "Donation Solicitaion" or something similar to the thread title so that we know what the thread is before we open it. That will make it easier to ignore the thread if you're that averse to them.

[Anaamika]

I read this whole thread. I don't agree the mods should vet anything beyond checking to make sure it's not outright a scam. Why shouldn't Dopers be allowed to ask? It's YOUR job to not give if you don't like the idea. Likewise, Dopers should be allowed to call out the people who ask, in the thread (provided they follow the rules of the forum).

I also think a "Donation Solicitation" title would be appropriate.

[Telemark]

Originally Posted by Loach

The occasional plea for a dire emergency will get my attention and help if possible. Increasing numbers of threads asking for money for problems that are less dire than most of my normal days will make such requests fade into background noise. It's as simple as that.

Agreed. If we set a high bar, some needy folks will likely get some relief. If we set a low bar, a random selection of people will get less relief, IMO. I'm not sure I would donate any money under the former system, but I definitely won't donate under the latter.

[MsWhatsit]

Originally Posted by Anaamika

I read this whole thread. I don't agree the mods should vet anything beyond checking to make sure it's not outright a scam. Why shouldn't Dopers be allowed to ask? It's YOUR job to not give if you don't like the idea. Likewise, Dopers should be allowed to call out the people who ask, in the thread (provided they follow the rules of the forum).

Because we don't want MPSIMS to turn into the Begging Forum, and if people see that others are posting "send me money for [non-emergency reason]" threads and getting cash as a result, I promise you it will.

[Inner Stickler]

"I lost my job unexpectedly, the car gave its last gasp and my wife left me-looking for enough to pay the mortgage this month." = appropriate.

"I wanna do X but don't have the funds this minute-help me out please" = not appropriate.

If anyone ever posts again about the entitlement attitude of the millennial generation, I'm going to laugh in their face.

[Anaamika]

Originally Posted by MsWhatsit

Because we don't want MPSIMS to turn into the Begging Forum, and if people see that others are posting "send me money for [non-emergency reason]" threads and getting cash as a result, I promise you it will.

I guess it doesn't bother me that much. Sometimes I think it's fun to hear people criticize, even harshly, the stupid requests of other people. Regardless, if it's a dumb cause, it will either drop off the front page pretty quick, or we'll get a nice yelling match where people tell exactly how stupid their request is.

[Moonlitherial]

Originally Posted by Marley23
We do vet all threads of this type, and we're trying that much hard to evaluate them carefully after the bunny thread. .... We can't do very much to prove the people asking for money are telling the truth, and for that reason and because it's just good common sense, we've always encouraged people to think carefully about these situations and come to their own conclusions.

Originally Posted by C K Dexter Haven

ON THE TOPIC: Sorry to disillusion y'all, but (generally speaking) mods don't do any serious vetting of requests beyond superficial levels. We can't -- we don't have the resources or the time to check whether someone is expressing a legitimate need or not. We don't ask for bank statements, sworn affadavits, or a credit check. We just take the person pretty much at their word.

Originally Posted by Colibri

I'm not seeing a serious conflict between Marley's and Dex's statements. We do vet requests to the extent we can, but we can't do any serious investigation beyond what people tell us.

While I understand that you don't see the conflict between those statements Marley's in isolation led some to believe that more vetting was being done than [b]CK's[b] suggests.

I don't have an issue with the mods not vetting the requests, it always seemed like an impossible job BUT if there's not any vetting at all being done we'd actually be better off without mod permission being required because that assumption would go away and people would understand that they were responsible to ask questions themselves.

Also other people might understand that asking questions of someone requesting donations doesn't make you the devil or unsympathetic just someone who would like to help without feeling robbed later.

[TriPolar]

I don't care if someone wants money to pay for hookers and blow as long as there up front in asking for it.

I would like to know when a 'mod approved' request for money is made:

A. That it's a member. Then the mods claim they at least have a valid email address for the person
B. That the mods have read the OP and know what will actually be asked for and why