The Straight Dope

Go Back   Straight Dope Message Board > Main > Great Debates

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 08-28-2012, 10:21 AM
Brad Watson, Miami Brad Watson, Miami is offline
BANNED
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 41
Dec. 21, 2012 is the beginning of the Age of Aquarius

In Matthew 24:3, Jesus'(74) disciples asked him, "What will be the sign of your return and of the closing of the age?" Some Bible versions wrongly use "end of the world" (KJV) or "end of time". It's very important to correct some people's wrong impression that on December 21, 2012 we will see the "end of the world" or "end of time". What we, in-fact, will see on 12/21/12 is the end of the Age of Pisces and the beginning of the Age of Aquarius. And yes, the Christ - GOD's 'chosen one' - will have returned and produced the "book/scroll" with the "7 seals" on the cover prophesied in The Revelation 5:1-10:10.

Last edited by Brad Watson, Miami; 08-28-2012 at 10:22 AM.. Reason: striving 4 perfection
Reply With Quote
Advertisements  
  #2  
Old 08-28-2012, 10:26 AM
GIGObuster GIGObuster is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
I will always wonder why people that claim to be christian follow things like astrology. On a more secular point of view, it is also unscientific.

http://www.christiananswers.net/q-eden/edn-occult.html

Quote:
Astrology (predictions by the planets or moon; horoscopes; sometimes referred to as “observing times” in the Old Testament)

Although the Bible does not go into great detail about astrology, it certainly makes its position clear. We should never trust in astrological beliefs or predictions. Astrology is an ancient, heathen practice that leads to disaster. Our lives are not determined by the stars or movement of planets. The Bible warns against the false predictions of astrology (Jeremiah 10:2; 27:9-10; Daniel 2:1-4; 4:7; 5:7-9) and repeatedly condemns the associated practice of worshipping the sun, moon and stars (or “deities or demons associated with them”) (Deuteronomy 4:19; 17:2-5; 2 Kings 21:3, 5; Zephaniah 1:5; Job 31:26-28; Jeremiah 8:1-2).

In Isaiah, God sarcastically rebukes Israel for practicing astrology,

Quote:
…For you have trusted in your wickedness… Therefore evil shall come upon you… trouble shall fall upon you… Let now the astrologers, the stargazers, And the monthly prognosticators stand up and save you from what shall come upon you. Behold, they shall be as stubble, The fire shall burn them; They shall not deliver themselves from the power of the flame…
-Isaiah 47:10-14a

Last edited by GIGObuster; 08-28-2012 at 10:27 AM..
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 08-28-2012, 10:34 AM
Czarcasm Czarcasm is online now
Charter Member
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Beervania
Posts: 40,082
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad Watson, Miami View Post
In Matthew 24:3, Jesus'(74) disciples asked him, "What will be the sign of your return and of the closing of the age?" Some Bible versions wrongly use "end of the world" (KJV) or "end of time". It's very important to correct some people's wrong impression that on December 21, 2012 we will see the "end of the world" or "end of time". What we, in-fact, will see on 12/21/12 is the end of the Age of Pisces and the beginning of the Age of Aquarius. And yes, the Christ - GOD's 'chosen one' - will have returned and produced the "book/scroll" with the "7 seals" on the cover prophesied in The Revelation 5:1-10:10.
A word, please? The different sized fonts and the various colors aren't really helping you here. Conversing with others on the message board is not the same as standing on a street corner holding a large cardboard sign. Nobody here is attracted by or impressed by how a post looks-they are impressed by what a post says.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 08-28-2012, 10:53 AM
blondebear blondebear is offline
Shouting Grasshopper
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Meridian/280
Posts: 10,451
If the song lyrics are true, I'm all for it.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 08-28-2012, 10:58 AM
Brad Watson, Miami Brad Watson, Miami is offline
BANNED
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 41
I AM Omni-religious & a scientist

Quote:
Originally Posted by GIGObuster View Post
I will always wonder why people that claim to be christian follow things like astrology. On a more secular point of view, it is also unscientific.
GIGObuster,

Hey! What does that screen name mean?

I AM more than a Christian, I AM Omni-religious and a scientist who has discovered at least 7 paradigm-shifting 'beyond Einstein theories'. I presented a one-page-paper/poster at the NASA Conference Missions for Exoplanets 2010-2020 in Pasadena, CA April 21-23, 2009 http://exep.jpl.nasa.gov/exep_exoMtgPosters.cfm

You don't deny that on the winter solstice of this year that a major cosmic alignment is going to happen that only happens every 26,000 years? Do you believe in randomness and 'coincidences'? Are you an atheist? Do you know anything about science?
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 08-28-2012, 11:01 AM
Rhythmdvl Rhythmdvl is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Shakedown Street
Posts: 12,431
What's with the influx of barely coherent, TimeCube-styled gibberish lately?
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 08-28-2012, 11:05 AM
Qadgop the Mercotan Qadgop the Mercotan is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Slithering on the hull
Posts: 22,461
For a self-proclaimed scientist, the OP's postings don't seem real scient so far.

I've got to get back to the lab and figure some stuff out. Later!
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 08-28-2012, 11:08 AM
Twoflower Twoflower is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Sacra-tomato
Posts: 1,021
What's this have to do with 74???
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 08-28-2012, 11:25 AM
Chimera Chimera is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: In the Dreaming
Posts: 15,261
Dial back the font.

As for the "alignment", it's called Precession and it's no great mystery or cosmic event. Every day's "alignment" happens only once every 26,000 years. Only, the stars move in the mean time, so it's never exactly the same twice.

"Earth goes through one such complete precessional cycle in a period of approximately 26,000 years or 1° every 72 years, during which the positions of stars will slowly change in both equatorial coordinates and ecliptic longitude. Over this cycle, Earth's north axial pole moves from where it is now, within 1° of Polaris, in a circle around the ecliptic pole, with an angular radius of about 23.5 degrees."

"The precession of Earth's axis was later explained by Newtonian physics. Being an oblate spheroid, the Earth has a nonspherical shape, bulging outward at the equator. The gravitational tidal forces of the Moon and Sun apply torque to the equator, attempting to pull the equatorial bulge into the plane of the ecliptic, but instead causing it to precess."
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 08-28-2012, 11:25 AM
PacifistPorcupine PacifistPorcupine is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad Watson, Miami View Post
And yes, the Christ - GOD's 'chosen one' - will have returned and produced the "book/scroll" with the "7 seals" on the cover prophesied in The Revelation 5:1-10:10.
What exactly should I expect to see on the news on Dec. 22, 2012 to demonstrate that this indeed happened?
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 08-28-2012, 11:25 AM
scabpicker scabpicker is online now
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Funkytown (Fort Worth)
Posts: 1,915
At least it's not the age of the Aerostar all over again.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 08-28-2012, 11:33 AM
Jas09 Jas09 is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
You should keep better count of your paradigm-shifting "beyond Einstein theory" discoveries. "At least 7" is frustratingly vague.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 08-28-2012, 11:34 AM
Brad Watson, Miami Brad Watson, Miami is offline
BANNED
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 41
How about replying to the info and NOT wasting our time(47)?

Czarcasm,

Do you have anything to say about the material in the post? I use size 4 of 7 font - it's a code and I AM far-sighted.

I also take advantage of the other features of this forum. If you don't like my style of writing, then don't read it and don't waste everyone's times with your complaints about fonts, sizes, colors, smiles, etc. If you don't like that this forum offers these writing features, take your complaint to the administrator.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 08-28-2012, 11:37 AM
pseudotriton ruber ruber pseudotriton ruber ruber is offline
BANNED
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Outer Control
Posts: 10,394
You mean the HAIR lyrics were off by 45 years? Or is 45 years just a long dawning?
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 08-28-2012, 11:38 AM
Brad Watson, Miami Brad Watson, Miami is offline
BANNED
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 41
composer=74, songs=74, melody=74

Quote:
Originally Posted by blondebear View Post
If the song lyrics are true, I'm all for it.
Blonde Bear,

I AM a composer(74=C3+O+M13+P16+O+S19+E5+R18). The lyrics to the songs(74) are true and the melody(74) has beauty(74).

Last edited by Brad Watson, Miami; 08-28-2012 at 11:38 AM..
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 08-28-2012, 11:42 AM
GIGObuster GIGObuster is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad Watson, Miami View Post
GIGObuster,

Hey! What does that screen name mean?
I bust the ones that just plug garbage into good algorithms.

And Busting Makes me feel good!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad Watson, Miami View Post
I AM more than a Christian, I AM Omni-religious and a scientist who has discovered at least 7 paradigm-shifting 'beyond Einstein theories'. I presented a one-page-paper/poster at the NASA Conference Missions for Exoplanets 2010-2020 in Pasadena, CA April 21-23, 2009 http://exep.jpl.nasa.gov/exep_exoMtgPosters.cfm

You don't deny that on the winter solstice of this year that a major cosmic alignment is going to happen that only happens every 26,000 years? Do you believe in randomness and 'coincidences'? Are you an atheist? Do you know anything about science?
Don't think for a second that we do notice how you are avoiding the point, Astrology is contradictory to Judeo-Christian principles.

Last edited by GIGObuster; 08-28-2012 at 11:43 AM..
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 08-28-2012, 11:43 AM
Wulabo Wulabo is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Astrology is a tricky one. Yes, there is a great deal of what you can call 'hokum' surrounding it, but one should be careful against throwing the baby out with the bath water. The daily write ups in the paper? Rubbish of course. But to say that human beings aren't affected by the movements and changes in the universe around us goes too far in my opinion.

Take the moon for instance, which figures into astrology. The moon clearly influences life on earth to an enormous degree. From control of the tides (and keep in mind we humans are 65% water) to changes in animal behavior (and yes we are animals as well). Then there is the Sun. It cycles through magnetic radiation patterns since its surface is molten and it's poles rotate faster than it's equator. The impact of this radiation can be seen in the northern lights and we know that radiation can have dramatic effects on a developing fetus. What's your sign? Is there something to it...perhaps. So, if we agree that there is some scientific evidence for the sun and moon then could the gravity of nearby planets have an influence as well? What about distant stars? Their effects would be far less than our sun's but could possibly have some influence.

As someone noted above, the signs of the zodiac relate to the precession of the equinoxes. We know now that it is a result of the earth's tilted axis, but really the twelve constellations were just markers in the sky chosen by ancients to describe the phenomena they observed but didn't fully understand. It's the earliest method of keeping time (or is it just coincidence that your watch has twelve points arranged in a circle?). So, to sum up, while Astrologists and daily columns are BS the ancient pseudo science of astrology is based on observation, and careful observation at that. In many ways it was the forerunner of science and it should be tested not tossed out.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 08-28-2012, 11:45 AM
PacifistPorcupine PacifistPorcupine is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad Watson, Miami View Post
Blonde Bear,

I AM a composer(74=C3+O+M13+P16+O+S19+E5+R18). The lyrics to the songs(74) are true and the melody(74) has beauty(74).
composer: C3+O+M13+P16+O+S19+E5+R18 = 74
songs: S19+O+N14+G7+S19 = 59.
Where are you getting 74 for songs from? Or is the O worth 15 when it is convenient?
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 08-28-2012, 11:47 AM
Robb Robb is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 1999
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad Watson, Miami View Post
In Matthew 24:3, Jesus'(74) disciples asked him, "What will be the sign of your return and of the closing of the age?" Some Bible versions wrongly use "end of the world" (KJV) or "end of time". It's very important to correct some people's wrong impression that on December 21, 2012 we will see the "end of the world" or "end of time". What we, in-fact, will see on 12/21/12 is the end of the Age of Pisces and the beginning of the Age of Aquarius. And yes, the Christ - GOD's 'chosen one' - will have returned and produced the "book/scroll" with the "7 seals" on the cover prophesied in The Revelation 5:1-10:10..
Do you still claim to be the author of the "book/scroll" from Revelation 5:1-10:10? If so, can we read the book/scroll now, or do we need to wait?
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 08-28-2012, 11:50 AM
Czarcasm Czarcasm is online now
Charter Member
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Beervania
Posts: 40,082
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wulabo View Post
Astrology is a tricky one. Yes, there is a great deal of what you can call 'hokum' surrounding it, but one should be careful against throwing the baby out with the bath water. The daily write ups in the paper? Rubbish of course. But to say that human beings aren't affected by the movements and changes in the universe around us goes too far in my opinion.

Take the moon for instance, which figures into astrology. The moon clearly influences life on earth to an enormous degree. From control of the tides (and keep in mind we humans are 65% water) to changes in animal behavior (and yes we are animals as well). Then there is the Sun. It cycles through magnetic radiation patterns since its surface is molten and it's poles rotate faster than it's equator. The impact of this radiation can be seen in the northern lights and we know that radiation can have dramatic effects on a developing fetus. What's your sign? Is there something to it...perhaps. So, if we agree that there is some scientific evidence for the sun and moon then could the gravity of nearby planets have an influence as well? What about distant stars? Their effects would be far less than our sun's but could possibly have some influence.

As someone noted above, the signs of the zodiac relate to the precession of the equinoxes. We know now that it is a result of the earth's tilted axis, but really the twelve constellations were just markers in the sky chosen by ancients to describe the phenomena they observed but didn't fully understand. It's the earliest method of keeping time (or is it just coincidence that your watch has twelve points arranged in a circle?). So, to sum up, while Astrologists and daily columns are BS the ancient pseudo science of astrology is based on observation, and careful observation at that. In many ways it was the forerunner of science and it should be tested not tossed out.
Could you please repost this in a separate thread? I think it would be a great topic on its own.
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 08-28-2012, 12:05 PM
Gyrate Gyrate is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Mandy: What star sign is he?

Wise Man #2: Capricorn.

Mandy: Capricorn, eh? What are they like?

Wise Man #2: He is the son of God, our Messiah.

Wise Man #1: King of the Jews.

Mandy: And that's Capricorn, is it?

Wise Man #3: No, no, that's just him.

Mandy: Oh, I was going to say, otherwise there'd be a lot of them.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 08-28-2012, 12:10 PM
GIGObuster GIGObuster is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wulabo View Post
Astrology is a tricky one. Yes, there is a great deal of what you can call 'hokum' surrounding it, but one should be careful against throwing the baby out with the bath water. The daily write ups in the paper? Rubbish of course. But to say that human beings aren't affected by the movements and changes in the universe around us goes too far in my opinion.

Take the moon for instance, which figures into astrology. The moon clearly influences life on earth to an enormous degree. From control of the tides (and keep in mind we humans are 65% water) to changes in animal behavior (and yes we are animals as well). Then there is the Sun. It cycles through magnetic radiation patterns since its surface is molten and it's poles rotate faster than it's equator. The impact of this radiation can be seen in the northern lights and we know that radiation can have dramatic effects on a developing fetus. What's your sign? Is there something to it...perhaps. So, if we agree that there is some scientific evidence for the sun and moon then could the gravity of nearby planets have an influence as well? What about distant stars? Their effects would be far less than our sun's but could possibly have some influence.

As someone noted above, the signs of the zodiac relate to the precession of the equinoxes. We know now that it is a result of the earth's tilted axis, but really the twelve constellations were just markers in the sky chosen by ancients to describe the phenomena they observed but didn't fully understand. It's the earliest method of keeping time (or is it just coincidence that your watch has twelve points arranged in a circle?). So, to sum up, while Astrologists and daily columns are BS the ancient pseudo science of astrology is based on observation, and careful observation at that. In many ways it was the forerunner of science and it should be tested not tossed out.
Already tested and tossed out:

http://skepdic.com/astrology.html
Quote:
Finally, astrology is probably the most widely practiced superstition and most popular Tooth Fairy science in the world today. Nevertheless, there are many who defend astrology by pointing out how accurate professional horoscopes are.

Astrology “works,” it is said, but what does that mean? Basically, to say astrology works means that there are a lot of satisfied customers. There are a lot of satisfied customers because thanks to subjective validation, it is easy to shoehorn any event to fit a chart. To say astrology "works" does not mean that astrology is accurate in predicting human behavior or events to a degree significantly greater than mere chance. There are many satisfied customers who believe that their horoscope accurately describes them and that their astrologer has given them good advice. Such evidence does not prove astrology so much as it demonstrates the Forer effect and confirmation bias. Good astrologers give good advice, but that does not validate astrology. (They also make ambiguous claims like the oracle of Delphi who told Croesus before he attacked Persia: “If you cross the river, a great empire will be destroyed.” So armed, Croesus attacked, resulting in the destruction of his own empire.)

There have been several studies that have shown that people will use selective thinking to make any chart they are given fit their preconceived notions about themselves and their charts. Many of the claims made about signs and personalities are vague and would fit many people under many different signs. Even professional astrologers, most of whom have nothing but disdain for sun sign astrology, can’t pick out a correct horoscope reading at better than a chance rate. Yet, astrology continues to maintain its popularity, despite the fact that there is scarcely a shred of scientific evidence in its favor. Even the former First Lady of the United States, Nancy Reagan, and her husband, Ronald, consulted an astrologer while he was the leader of the free world, demonstrating once again that astrologers have more influence than the stars do.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 08-28-2012, 12:12 PM
Marley23 Marley23 is offline
I Am the One Who Bans
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Brooklyn
Posts: 78,236
Moderating

I've banned the OP for ignoring staff instructions about his annoying colors and fonts. I'll leave this open for now if people want to discuss astrology in general.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 08-28-2012, 12:31 PM
Wulabo Wulabo is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by GIGObuster View Post
Already tested and tossed out:

http://skepdic.com/astrology.html
"Correlation is not causality" Great quote from your link - I may steal that line, thanks. As for the rest of the article, I can't find much to disagree with as it attacks and debunks the elements of astrology I agree are hokum; specifically divination. No, what I was trying to get at, and maybe I didn't get my point across well enough, was that there may be a kernel or two of truth amid all the swirling silliness. The examples I gave of lunar sway and solar radiation certainly merit consideration IMO. I think the observations of the ancients were accurate but they lacked the knowledge of the world to reach the true cause and so we get a lot of fluff and BS.

It's similar to religion in some ways. There, not unlike astrology, you have groups of people who over the course of thousands of years have lost sight of the initial observation or thought and built a lot of ritualistic pomp and circumstance around it obscuring the initial intent. But does that mean we throw it all out the window?

Last edited by Wulabo; 08-28-2012 at 12:31 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 08-28-2012, 12:34 PM
Czarcasm Czarcasm is online now
Charter Member
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Beervania
Posts: 40,082
The moon may hold sway over large bodies of water(oceans have tides, lakes don't), but a pencil on a desk in the same room has more of a gravitational influence on you than the moon.
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 08-28-2012, 12:40 PM
GIGObuster GIGObuster is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wulabo View Post
"Correlation is not causality" Great quote from your link - I may steal that line, thanks. As for the rest of the article, I can't find much to disagree with as it attacks and debunks the elements of astrology I agree are hokum; specifically divination. No, what I was trying to get at, and maybe I didn't get my point across well enough, was that there may be a kernel or two of truth amid all the swirling silliness. The examples I gave of lunar sway and solar radiation certainly merit consideration IMO. I think the observations of the ancients were accurate but they lacked the knowledge of the world to reach the true cause and so we get a lot of fluff and BS.

It's similar to religion in some ways. There, not unlike astrology, you have groups of people who over the course of thousands of years have lost sight of the initial observation or thought and built a lot of ritualistic pomp and circumstance around it obscuring the initial intent. But does that mean we throw it all out the window?
Like Tim Minchin said: "do you know what we call alternative medicine that is found to work?

MEDICINE."

The observations that are still useful from that era are called ASTRONOMY. And Medicine deals with any radiation effects detected on earth.
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 08-28-2012, 12:44 PM
mlees mlees is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chimera View Post
Dial back the font.

As for the "alignment", it's called Precession and it's no great mystery or cosmic event. Every day's "alignment" happens only once every 26,000 years. Only, the stars move in the mean time, so it's never exactly the same twice.

"Earth goes through one such complete precessional cycle in a period of approximately 26,000 years or 1° every 72 years, during which the positions of stars will slowly change in both equatorial coordinates and ecliptic longitude. Over this cycle, Earth's north axial pole moves from where it is now, within 1° of Polaris, in a circle around the ecliptic pole, with an angular radius of about 23.5 degrees."

"The precession of Earth's axis was later explained by Newtonian physics. Being an oblate spheroid, the Earth has a nonspherical shape, bulging outward at the equator. The gravitational tidal forces of the Moon and Sun apply torque to the equator, attempting to pull the equatorial bulge into the plane of the ecliptic, but instead causing it to precess."
Not only that, but aren't the stars themselves moving in relation to each other (and their position within the local stellar neighborhood)?

I assume the constellation Leo as it looks today won't quite look the same 26,000 years from now.
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 08-28-2012, 12:46 PM
kunilou kunilou is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Posts: 17,850
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marley23 View Post
I've banned the OP for ignoring staff instructions about his annoying colors and fonts. I'll leave this open for now if people want to discuss astrology in general.
Okay, but it won't be nearly as much fun.
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 08-28-2012, 12:48 PM
mlees mlees is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Czarcasm View Post
The moon may hold sway over large bodies of water(oceans have tides, lakes don't), but a pencil on a desk in the same room has more of a gravitational influence on you than the moon.
My pencil is not generating tides in the harbor outside (which is 250 feet from my desk), but the moon is.

Last edited by mlees; 08-28-2012 at 12:49 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 08-28-2012, 12:50 PM
Voyager Voyager is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Deep Space
Posts: 35,116
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wulabo View Post
Astrology is a tricky one. Yes, there is a great deal of what you can call 'hokum' surrounding it, but one should be careful against throwing the baby out with the bath water. The daily write ups in the paper? Rubbish of course. But to say that human beings aren't affected by the movements and changes in the universe around us goes too far in my opinion.
Besides the fact that astrology just doesn't work, your post is full of logical inconsistencies. First, obviously we are affected by the universe, which is everything around us. But that is far from saying we are affected by either the positions of the planets or the stars.
Quote:
Take the moon for instance, which figures into astrology. The moon clearly influences life on earth to an enormous degree. From control of the tides (and keep in mind we humans are 65% water) to changes in animal behavior (and yes we are animals as well).
Some examples, please? Are you saying that there are significant tidal effects in our cells? While I can believe that animal behavior is affected in some way by the different amounts of light emitted by the moon over a month, I doubt there is any gravitational effect. I can compute the force of the moon if you'd like.
Quote:
Then there is the Sun. It cycles through magnetic radiation patterns since its surface is molten and it's poles rotate faster than it's equator.
Uh, the sun is not liquid. It is a mite too hot for that.
Quote:
The impact of this radiation can be seen in the northern lights and we know that radiation can have dramatic effects on a developing fetus.
The impact or radiation can be seen by the fact that we see - light is radiation also. What is magnetic radiation exactly? Are you perhaps confusing nuclear radiation with electromagnetic radiation?
Quote:
What's your sign? Is there something to it...perhaps. So, if we agree that there is some scientific evidence for the sun and moon then could the gravity of nearby planets have an influence as well? What about distant stars? Their effects would be far less than our sun's but could possibly have some influence.
I'd have to check the numbers, but I'd expect living near a mountain would have more gravitational influence than that of any planet. And how does gravity affect our personalities again? Anyhow, since you phrased these things as questions, the answers are no and hell, no.
Quote:
As someone noted above, the signs of the zodiac relate to the precession of the equinoxes. We know now that it is a result of the earth's tilted axis, but really the twelve constellations were just markers in the sky chosen by ancients to describe the phenomena they observed but didn't fully understand. It's the earliest method of keeping time (or is it just coincidence that your watch has twelve points arranged in a circle?). So, to sum up, while Astrologists and daily columns are BS the ancient pseudo science of astrology is based on observation, and careful observation at that. In many ways it was the forerunner of science and it should be tested not tossed out.
Are you aware that the Babylonians used a base 60 system? That explains why there are 12 hours on your watch. (Except that in Europe everyone seems to use a 24 hour system.) Yes, equatorial constellations were useful for keeping time, but that is about where their utility ends. Remember, astrology began when everyone thought the stars were relatively close to us. Doesn't make a lot of sense considering their real distance, does it?

To convince anyone of anything astrology would have to make specific predictions about what you would expect for people with a given birth date, time and location. It does, and they have all failed.
Maybe you should get into something with real predictive value, like reading the entrails of chickens.

Last edited by Voyager; 08-28-2012 at 12:50 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #31  
Old 08-28-2012, 12:53 PM
Voyager Voyager is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Deep Space
Posts: 35,116
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wulabo View Post
"Correlation is not causality" Great quote from your link - I may steal that line, thanks. As for the rest of the article, I can't find much to disagree with as it attacks and debunks the elements of astrology I agree are hokum; specifically divination. No, what I was trying to get at, and maybe I didn't get my point across well enough, was that there may be a kernel or two of truth amid all the swirling silliness. The examples I gave of lunar sway and solar radiation certainly merit consideration IMO. I think the observations of the ancients were accurate but they lacked the knowledge of the world to reach the true cause and so we get a lot of fluff and BS.

It's similar to religion in some ways. There, not unlike astrology, you have groups of people who over the course of thousands of years have lost sight of the initial observation or thought and built a lot of ritualistic pomp and circumstance around it obscuring the initial intent. But does that mean we throw it all out the window?
That there is solar radiation is obvious, and that it affects the climate of the planet is also obvious. How is this related to astrology in any way?
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 08-28-2012, 12:53 PM
hajario hajario is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Santa Barbara, California
Posts: 13,232
I have heard it described that the Ages last for 2000 years. The current (or one we left several years ago) age was the Age of Pisces, i.e. the fish or the Age of Christianity. Prior to that was the Age of Taurus, the bull or the Age or Animism/animal sacrifice. Now we're on the the Age of Aquarius, water or whatever the Hell that brings.
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 08-28-2012, 12:56 PM
Chimera Chimera is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: In the Dreaming
Posts: 15,261
What do the entrails of some random animal have to do with me and what I'm on about?

Like God or the Universe specifically formed this animals internal organs in the exact pattern to tell me something; knowing I'd be walking by at that moment, doing exactly what the pattern was supposed to advise me on, and I'd just happen to go "Hey, let's gut that animal and read it's bits"?

How predeterministic.

And how utterly evil on the part of that God or Universe.

Can we gut Bob and get the same answers? He's an annoying twit, no one will mind.
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 08-28-2012, 12:59 PM
Chimera Chimera is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: In the Dreaming
Posts: 15,261
Quote:
Originally Posted by hajario View Post
I have heard it described that the Ages last for 2000 years. The current (or one we left several years ago) age was the Age of Pisces, i.e. the fish or the Age of Christianity. Prior to that was the Age of Taurus, the bull or the Age or Animism/animal sacrifice. Now we're on the the Age of Aquarius, water or whatever the Hell that brings.
The really stupid thing is that Aquarius (meaning "Water Bearer"), with the symbol of waves, is considered an AIR SIGN.
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 08-28-2012, 12:59 PM
Drunky Smurf Drunky Smurf is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by mlees View Post
Not only that, but aren't the stars themselves moving in relation to each other (and their position within the local stellar neighborhood)?

I assume the constellation Leo as it looks today won't quite look the same 26,000 years from now.
Correct.

Quote:
Because they are so very far away, it will take thousands of lifetimes to see significant changes in the star patterns. But, over time, they will change. Because of the motions of the stars within it, for example, the handle of the Big Dipper will, in about 50,000 years, appear significantly more bent than it is today (see figure at left).
http://www.physics.csbsju.edu/astro/...ation.faq.html
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 08-28-2012, 01:05 PM
Czarcasm Czarcasm is online now
Charter Member
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Beervania
Posts: 40,082
Quote:
Originally Posted by mlees View Post
My pencil is not generating tides in the harbor outside (which is 250 feet from my desk), but the moon is.
Once again-the larger the body of water, the more influence the moon has on it. Because of the distance involved, there are millions of things around you that have more gravitational influence on you than the moon.
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 08-28-2012, 01:25 PM
Ravenman Ravenman is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 14,702
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad Watson, Miami View Post
I AM more than a Christian,I AM Omni-religious and a scientist who has discovered at least 7 paradigm-shifting 'beyond Einstein theories'. I presented a one-page-paper/poster at the NASA Conference Missions for Exoplanets 2010-2020 in Pasadena, CA April 21-23, 2009 http://exep.jpl.nasa.gov/exep_exoMtgPosters.cfm
You all should really check out his paper, which is linked to on that page (the one about earth like planets at the bottom).

I bet the NASA scientists at this conference just included that paper for laughs. On the other hand, it reads better than any of the other materials...
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 08-28-2012, 01:34 PM
GIGObuster GIGObuster is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
One thing I would had like the OP to reply to was the fact that even Astrologers do not agree on where the heck the Age of Aquarius does begin.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astrological_age
Quote:
The Age of Aquarius (The Aquarian age)

Timeframes

In 1928, at the Conference of the International Astronomical Union (IAU) in Leiden, the Netherlands, the edges of the 88 official constellations became defined in astronomical terms. The edge established between Pisces and Aquarius locates the beginning of the Aquarian Age around the year 2600.

The Austrian astronomer, Professor Hermann Haupt,[40] examined the question of when the Age of Aquarius begins in an article published in 1992 by the Austrian Academy of Science: with the German title "Der Beginn des Wassermannzeitalters, eine astronomische Frage?" ("The Start of the Aquarian Age, an Astronomical Question?"). Based on the boundaries accepted by IAU in 1928, Haupt's article investigates the start of the Age of Aquarius by calculating the entry of the spring equinox point over the parallel cycle (d = - 4°) between the constellations Pisces and Aquarius and reaches, using the usual formula of precession (Gliese, 1982), the year 2595. However Haupt concludes:

"Though it cannot be expected that astrologers will follow the official boundaries of the constellations, there will be an attempt to calculate the entry of the spring equinox point into the constellation of Aquarius." ...

"As briefly has been shown, the results and methods of astrology in many areas, such as concerning the Aquarian age, are controversial on their own and cannot be called scientific because of the many esoteric elements."[41]

Zodiacal 30 degrees:

Neil Mann interpretation: begins AD 2150.
Dane Rudhyar's interpretation states that the Age of Aquarius will begin in AD 2062.
Nicholas Campion in The Book of World Horoscopes indicates that he has collected over 90 dates provided by researchers for the start of the Age of Aquarius and these dates have a range of over 2,000 years commencing in the 15th century AD.[42] The range of dates for the possible start of the Aquarian age range from 1447 to 3621.

Constellation boundary year:

Shephard Simpson interpretation: begins in ca. AD 2680.
Hermann Haupt interpretation begins in ca. AD 2595.
Michael Sidi interpretation begins in ca. AD 2720.
IMHO the best sign that we are in front of pseudoscience is when followers do not agree on even very basic items. BTW notice that when Astronomy does take a look at when that event should take place based on the true positions of the constellations the age of Aquarius is 600 years off of what several astrologers in the popular media have told us before.
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 08-28-2012, 02:46 PM
John Mace John Mace is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Quote:
Originally Posted by Czarcasm View Post
A word, please? The different sized fonts and the various colors aren't really helping you here. Conversing with others on the message board is not the same as standing on a street corner holding a large cardboard sign. Nobody here is attracted by or impressed by how a post looks-they are impressed by what a post says.
The fonts and colors are the least of his worries. Except that he got banned for them, which I found rather strange. Whatever.
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 08-28-2012, 02:48 PM
BrainGlutton BrainGlutton is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marley23 View Post
I've banned the OP for ignoring staff instructions about his annoying colors and fonts. I'll leave this open for now if people want to discuss astrology in general.
The OP must be a Taurus . . .
Reply With Quote
  #41  
Old 08-28-2012, 02:50 PM
Czarcasm Czarcasm is online now
Charter Member
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Beervania
Posts: 40,082
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrainGlutton View Post
The OP must be a Taurus . . .
Bull.
Reply With Quote
  #42  
Old 08-28-2012, 03:18 PM
mlees mlees is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Czarcasm View Post
Once again-the larger the body of water, the more influence the moon has on it. Because of the distance involved, there are millions of things around you that have more gravitational influence on you than the moon.
Respectfull request for a cite (the math) on how a 60 gram pencil has a bigger gravitational affect upon me from a distance of two feet than the moon (according to wiki, it masses 7.3477 × 10^22 kg at an average distance of 383,000 km) does.

(It seems counter-intuitive to me.)
Reply With Quote
  #43  
Old 08-28-2012, 03:30 PM
Telemark Telemark is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Hub of the sports world
Posts: 15,401
Quote:
Originally Posted by mlees View Post
Respectfull request for a cite (the math) on how a 60 gram pencil has a bigger gravitational affect upon me from a distance of two feet than the moon (according to wiki, it masses 7.3477 × 10^22 kg at an average distance of 383,000 km) does.

(It seems counter-intuitive to me.)
I don't have the math, but here's another cite from Scientific American - http://www.scientificamerican.com/ar...-the-full-moon

Quote:
As the late astronomer George Abell of the University of California, Los Angeles, noted, a mosquito sitting on our arm exerts a more powerful gravitational pull on us than the moon does.
More cites (without the requested math) - http://www.skepdic.com/fullmoon.html

Quote:
The lunar force is actually a very weak tidal force. A mother holding her child "will exert 12 million times as much tidal force on her child as the moon" (Kelly et al., 1996: 25). Astronomer George O. Abell claims that a mosquito would exert more gravitational pull on your arm than the moon would (Abell 1979).
Reply With Quote
  #44  
Old 08-28-2012, 03:34 PM
Telemark Telemark is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Hub of the sports world
Posts: 15,401
Here's some of the mass of Abell's claim - http://threesixty360.wordpress.com/2...ito-revisited/
Reply With Quote
  #45  
Old 08-28-2012, 03:40 PM
mlees mlees is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Telemark View Post
I don't have the math, but here's another cite from Scientific American - http://www.scientificamerican.com/ar...-the-full-moon



More cites (without the requested math) - http://www.skepdic.com/fullmoon.html
Thanks.

Please understand: I wasn't trying to say Czarcasm was making something up completely on his own.

I just can't get around my "gut" sometimes.

[/joke]I just moved my pencil. See how the ocean just sloshed a little to the left?[/joke]
Reply With Quote
  #46  
Old 08-28-2012, 03:46 PM
Marley23 Marley23 is offline
I Am the One Who Bans
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Brooklyn
Posts: 78,236
I can't do the math for this either, but I do know that gravity is goverened by the inverse square law: the force is dividend by the distance squared. The moon is very large compared to the pencil, but the pencil is very close and the moon is very freaking far. The gravitational force the moon is exerting on you is divided by 384,400 km times 384,400 km, or 147.763 billion.
Reply With Quote
  #47  
Old 08-28-2012, 03:50 PM
mlees mlees is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marley23 View Post
I can't do the math for this either, but I do know that gravity is goverened by the inverse square law: the force is dividend by the distance squared. The moon is very large compared to the pencil, but the pencil is very close and the moon is very freaking far. The gravitational force the moon is exerting on you is divided by 384,400 km times 384,400 km, or 147.763 billion.
I should be feeling the same force (from the moon) as are all the water molecules in the ocean. The ocean moves by many feet a couple times a day.

Are we (my precious bodily essensefluids, and the ocean) moving the same amount in proportion to our own size/mass?
Reply With Quote
  #48  
Old 08-28-2012, 03:54 PM
Czarcasm Czarcasm is online now
Charter Member
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Beervania
Posts: 40,082
Quote:
Originally Posted by mlees View Post
I should be feeling the same force (from the moon) as are all the water molecules in the ocean. The ocean moves by many feet a couple times a day.

Are we (my precious bodily essensefluids, and the ocean) moving the same amount in proportion to our own size/mass?
Have you read any of the links provided yet?
Reply With Quote
  #49  
Old 08-28-2012, 03:59 PM
mlees mlees is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Czarcasm View Post
Have you read any of the links provided yet?
Truthfully, I skimmed. I see much discussion on human behavior and folklore (including a discussion on menstration). What did I miss?
Reply With Quote
  #50  
Old 08-28-2012, 04:13 PM
Marley23 Marley23 is offline
I Am the One Who Bans
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Brooklyn
Posts: 78,236
Quote:
Originally Posted by mlees View Post
I should be feeling the same force (from the moon) as are all the water molecules in the ocean. The ocean moves by many feet a couple times a day.

Are we (my precious bodily essensefluids, and the ocean) moving the same amount in proportion to our own size/mass?
The moon does exert a gravitational force on you and everybody else. But that force is very weak and I think you are overlooking the fact that the molecules in your body are all influencing each other gravitationally much more than the moon is influencing any of them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scientific American
[Th]e moon’s gravitational force affects only open bodies of water, such as oceans and lakes, but not contained sources of water, such as the human brain.
Reply With Quote
Reply



Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:22 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

Send questions for Cecil Adams to: cecil@chicagoreader.com

Send comments about this website to: webmaster@straightdope.com

Terms of Use / Privacy Policy

Advertise on the Straight Dope!
(Your direct line to thousands of the smartest, hippest people on the planet, plus a few total dipsticks.)

Publishers - interested in subscribing to the Straight Dope?
Write to: sdsubscriptions@chicagoreader.com.

Copyright © 2013 Sun-Times Media, LLC.