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  #1  
Old 09-11-2012, 08:06 PM
JackieLikesVariety JackieLikesVariety is offline
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menage a trois wine, would you call it sweet?

I asked about red wines I might like (being used to sweeter white wines so far) in this thread

red wine thread

lots of good info & my plan is to try all the wines mentioned I did find one red too sweet but danged if I can remember which one it was, hope I wrote it down *blushing*

today I had my first glass of menage a trois and I love it, just love it. what do you think of this wine in particular? I ask because Snickers posted

Quote:
very fruity without being sweet
which is how I found it

while Athena posted it is very sweet. opinions?

FoieGrasIsEvil: I read what you said about "sweet" & hope you post
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  #2  
Old 09-11-2012, 09:09 PM
Athena Athena is offline
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To clarify: I find it sweet for a DRY wine. It's not a sweet or dessert wine by any definition. It's just on the very-sweet side of dry to my palate.
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  #3  
Old 09-11-2012, 09:47 PM
JackieLikesVariety JackieLikesVariety is offline
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well, it was perfect IMO, at least today it was. I fell pretty smug I only had one glass.
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Old 09-11-2012, 09:54 PM
Dangerosa Dangerosa is online now
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I consider that sort of wine to be "drinkable" - it isn't sweet like a sweet wine (try the Rombauer Old Vine Zin or there is a South African Shriaz called Jam Jar that deserves its name). And it certainly isn't sweet like a dessert wine. But it has enough sugar to go down easy.
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Old 09-11-2012, 10:05 PM
Horatio Hellpop Horatio Hellpop is offline
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I've never tasted it. From the name alone, I'd imagine a description like: "A complex wine, not suitable for people who can't walk and chew gum at the same time. Equally good with beef or fish. Too fruity for some, but just right for others. Be careful about pushing menage on a neophyte wine drinker; she might want it every weekend."
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Old 09-12-2012, 09:57 AM
Snickers Snickers is offline
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I think FoieGrasIsEvil absolutely nailed it towards the end of your linked thread, there - there seems to be some confusion between "fruity" and "sweet." Some call the big, jammy, fruit bombs that I love "sweet," when they're not sugary at all. For me, I reserve "sweet" to refer to the presence of residual (or otherwise) sugars found in dessert wines or off-drys like Rieslings, Moscatos, white Zinfandels, some roses, ports, that sort of thing.

But it's definitely true that Menage a Trois is really easy drinking. I really enjoy it; and at the price it's great to keep around for a table wine that should please most palates. Try the Apothic red blend too - I think I like it more than MaT.

After you get your toes a little more wet, I'd start looking at Zinfandels (not the white kind; these are red red red) and Shirazes for more jammy, fruit-forward wines.
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Old 09-12-2012, 10:08 AM
Snickers Snickers is offline
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Dammit, edit time expired. For Zinfandels, I can recommend the Seven Deadly Zins and Zen for Zin wines as big, jammy, fruit-forward wines. Careful, though: they tend to have higher alcohol content. Run about $15 a bottle. I also love love love Hanwood Estate's Shiraz; not sure how easy this is to find (but it seems pretty available around here). Runs $10ish a bottle.

And only one glass? I admire your restraint!
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  #8  
Old 09-12-2012, 10:25 AM
Duke of Rat Duke of Rat is offline
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Another drinkable sweet red wine is Barefoot Sweet Red California. I'm not a fan of tart, acidic, make you pucker wines, but this stuff caught me off guard with how sweet it is.

I have a bottle of that Apothic red, and the Menage a Trois, I'll give them a whirl this weekend. I started buying a bottle or two of generic "red" every trip to the store, but I don't drink a lot and I'm getting quite a stockpile.
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Old 09-12-2012, 10:58 AM
FoieGrasIsEvil FoieGrasIsEvil is offline
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Aw, somebody on the internet found me useful!



Anyway, from the menage a trois red fact pdf here: http://www.menageatroiswines.com/ass...ct%20Sheet.pdf

This wine is 1.2g/100ml in residual sugars, which means this is a dry wine. Most dry wines generally will have around a gram or so per 100ml of residual sugar, IIRC because certain types of sugars are difficult/impossible for yeasts to convert to alcohol. Truly sweet wines aren't usually perceived as such by most people until you get upwards of 30 or more grams of sugar per 100ml, and many very sweet wines will have a lot more than that.

Remember: there is a big distinction between tasting "fruit" flavors in a wine (again, often misconstrued as "sweet") and there being actual perceptible levels of sugar left in the finished wine, rendering it "sweet".

This red we're talking about is part of a pretty good-sized trend of blended reds intended for immediate consumption, often are non-vintage, are designed to be inoffensive (in a good way) with low tannins and a lot of forward fruit. They are also typically quite inexpensive.

I second Snicker's suggestion to take the next step towards a more structured wine, using Red Zinfandel as your primer. Since there is already a significant portion of Zinfandel in the Menage a Trois wine, and you like that style, chances are good you will like a well-made Red Zinfandel too.
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  #10  
Old 09-12-2012, 11:05 AM
OtisCampbellWasRight OtisCampbellWasRight is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duke of Rat View Post
I have a bottle of that Apothic red, and the Menage a Trois, I'll give them a whirl this weekend. I started buying a bottle or two of generic "red" every trip to the store, but I don't drink a lot and I'm getting quite a stockpile.
Understand that these, as well as the seven deadly Zins that was mentioned earlier are blends of more than one type (variety and/or species) of grape. Modern vintners use refractometry and gas chromatography to produce consistant, excellent blends. One random bottle will taste exactly the same as the next; and this is a good thing.

My wife and I love the MaT, 7DZ and Apothic reds. The popularity of these types of wines is one of the things that has me excited about wine drinking in America: Just solid, good tasting wines at a fair price, with none of the wine snobbery! I suppose many of the old-world vinophiles got this a long time ago.

In answer to the OP, sweet wine does not equal fruity, jammy wine. Remember that part of the fun of wine drinking is in the discovery of what you really like. Don't overthink it.
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  #11  
Old 09-12-2012, 11:10 AM
OtisCampbellWasRight OtisCampbellWasRight is offline
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Originally Posted by FoieGrasIsEvil View Post
Aw, somebody on the internet found me useful!

Not to appear like a fanboy or anything, but I could talk wine with you all day - if I didn't have to work once in a while.

Thanks for the tips on the German/Alsatian reislings. Tried a couple Labor day weekend. Very nice, very refreshing!

OP - sorry for the slight H/J.

Last edited by OtisCampbellWasRight; 09-12-2012 at 11:11 AM.. Reason: typno
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  #12  
Old 09-13-2012, 07:51 PM
JackieLikesVariety JackieLikesVariety is offline
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Quote:
Aw, somebody on the internet found me useful!
dang right!

Quote:
this is a dry wine
hurrah, the first dry wine I like!! I'm gunnu get all sophisticated, you watch my dust!

Quote:
I second Snicker's suggestion to take the next step towards a more structured wine, using Red Zinfandel as your primer. Since there is already a significant portion of Zinfandel in the Menage a Trois wine, and you like that style, chances are good you will like a well-made Red Zinfandel too.
I'm going to bookmark this thread (if you have that here?) or save it to favorites. or just write your suggestion down!

so little time, so many wines to try.

thanks, everyone
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  #13  
Old 09-13-2012, 09:29 PM
John Mace John Mace is offline
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Zins are great, and there are lots of good CA ones out there. Try Earthquake Zin (it'll make the earth move under your feet), Zen Zin (mentioned above), or anything from Dry Creek Valley in Sonoma County. That's one of the best regions for Zins.

Look for "old vines" on the label. Although that can sometimes be a marketing gimmick, the real old vine Zins have some interesting character.

I love the Zins and Zin blends from Ridge Vineyards, but they are pretty pricey. Try the Oltranti if you can get your hands on a bottle (many of their wines can only be bought at the winery). Talk about your fruit forward!! These are the one of the guys who "beat the French" in 1976 and again int 2006.

Jackie: Have you tried any Pinots yet? I'm sure you'll find some that satisfy!

Last edited by John Mace; 09-13-2012 at 09:31 PM..
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  #14  
Old 09-14-2012, 12:31 AM
Gray Ghost Gray Ghost is offline
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Originally Posted by FoieGrasIsEvil View Post
...Anyway, from the menage a trois red fact pdf here: http://www.menageatroiswines.com/ass...ct%20Sheet.pdf

This wine is 1.2g/100ml in residual sugars, which means this is a dry wine. Most dry wines generally will have around a gram or so per 100ml of residual sugar, IIRC because certain types of sugars are difficult/impossible for yeasts to convert to alcohol. Truly sweet wines aren't usually perceived as such by most people until you get upwards of 30 or more grams of sugar per 100ml, and many very sweet wines will have a lot more than that.

Remember: there is a big distinction between tasting "fruit" flavors in a wine (again, often misconstrued as "sweet") and there being actual perceptible levels of sugar left in the finished wine, rendering it "sweet".

I second Snicker's suggestion to take the next step towards a more structured wine, using Red Zinfandel as your primer. Since there is already a significant portion of Zinfandel in the Menage a Trois wine, and you like that style, chances are good you will like a well-made Red Zinfandel too.
Damn, 1.2%? That is awfully high for a dry red.
Quote:
Dry wines are typically in the 0.20.3 percent range, off-dry wines in the 1.05.0 percent range, and sweet dessert wines in the 5.015 percent range
I guess Athena was right and that it actually was sweet, not just fruity. I didn't remember that when I had it, but it was awhile ago.

I'm kidding but, were you weaned on Essencia, FGIE? 30 g/100mL or 30% residual sugar, is comfortably higher than even stuff like Yquem. 30 g/L, and I'll agree with you. Completely agree with you on confusing fruit with sweetness. I do it all the time, and often have to ask my GF, (who thinks Trimbach could be drier) whether the wine's sweet or not. Also agree with you and John Mace that the OP would probably like a good Zin. The best part is: there's so many to choose from!

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Originally Posted by John Mace View Post
Zins are great, and there are lots of good CA ones out there. Try Earthquake Zin (it'll make the earth move under your feet), Zen Zin (mentioned above), or anything from Dry Creek Valley in Sonoma County. That's one of the best regions for Zins.

Look for "old vines" on the label. Although that can sometimes be a marketing gimmick, the real old vine Zins have some interesting character.

I love the Zins and Zin blends from Ridge Vineyards, but they are pretty pricey. Try the Oltranti if you can get your hands on a bottle (many of their wines can only be bought at the winery). Talk about your fruit forward!! These are the one of the guys who "beat the French" in 1976 and again int 2006...
Reading your mention of the Judgment of Paris, the funny thing for me is that Ridge Monte Bello (not a Zin, incidentally.) is probably the most Continental of the wines from America that were tasted. I'm not experienced in it at all, but the few times I've tried it, it was a lot more reticent and less fruit-forward than either Montrose or Mouton.

Moving along, I love their Zins, especially Lytton Springs and Geyserville. Pagani and Dusi aren't slouches either. Hard to find a juicier Zin that an over-ripe Pagani. Shame they don't make Lytton Estate anymore. Never heard of the Oltranti til you mentioned it; I'll have to keep an eye out for it. Zin, especially old vine Zin, is IMHO a place where terroir really shines in CA. Those head-trained vines are essentially irreplaceable. Tried another one of the "R's", Rafanelli, the other day. I was really surprised by how restrained it was, compared to what I was expecting. Difficult to find, and somewhat pricey when you do, it's still an interesting glass. Rosenblum's are a lot easier to find, and usually cheaper.

Really though, I came in to recommend another very fruit-forward, occasionally sweeter wine for the OP: Valpolicella Ripasso. I like Zenato's version, but there are others and all of them should be jammy, tasty, and fairly high alcohol. Usually inexpensive too. (Unlike their big brother Amarone.)
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Old 09-14-2012, 01:19 AM
squeegee squeegee is online now
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Hmmm, I'm not sure. Next time I have some, I'll reserve my opinion and ask the two ladies I'm sharing it with what they think.

More seriously: I found it a "serviceable" bottle, not bad, but unremarkable. I haven't had one in a while and can't speak to the 'sweet' question very well, but my recollection was it had a fruit note with a dry finish. YMMV.

Last edited by squeegee; 09-14-2012 at 01:21 AM..
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Old 09-14-2012, 08:03 AM
FoieGrasIsEvil FoieGrasIsEvil is offline
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Originally Posted by Gray Ghost View Post
Damn, 1.2%? That is awfully high for a dry red. I guess Athena was right and that it actually was sweet, not just fruity. I didn't remember that when I had it, but it was awhile ago.

I'm kidding but, were you weaned on Essencia, FGIE? 30 g/100mL or 30% residual sugar, is comfortably higher than even stuff like Yquem. 30 g/L, and I'll agree with you. Completely agree with you on confusing fruit with sweetness. I do it all the time, and often have to ask my GF, (who thinks Trimbach could be drier) whether the wine's sweet or not. Also agree with you and John Mace that the OP would probably like a good Zin. The best part is: there's so many to choose from!



Reading your mention of the Judgment of Paris, the funny thing for me is that Ridge Monte Bello (not a Zin, incidentally.) is probably the most Continental of the wines from America that were tasted. I'm not experienced in it at all, but the few times I've tried it, it was a lot more reticent and less fruit-forward than either Montrose or Mouton.

Moving along, I love their Zins, especially Lytton Springs and Geyserville. Pagani and Dusi aren't slouches either. Hard to find a juicier Zin that an over-ripe Pagani. Shame they don't make Lytton Estate anymore. Never heard of the Oltranti til you mentioned it; I'll have to keep an eye out for it. Zin, especially old vine Zin, is IMHO a place where terroir really shines in CA. Those head-trained vines are essentially irreplaceable. Tried another one of the "R's", Rafanelli, the other day. I was really surprised by how restrained it was, compared to what I was expecting. Difficult to find, and somewhat pricey when you do, it's still an interesting glass. Rosenblum's are a lot easier to find, and usually cheaper.

Really though, I came in to recommend another very fruit-forward, occasionally sweeter wine for the OP: Valpolicella Ripasso. I like Zenato's version, but there are others and all of them should be jammy, tasty, and fairly high alcohol. Usually inexpensive too. (Unlike their big brother Amarone.)

I guess I was off on my residual sugars (by an order of magnitude!). I'm sure you're right, and ya'll will have to forgive me as I've been out of the wine world for quite awhile now. I don't know why I had my g/ml figures skewed so upward. I guess I just forgot and guessed. Ah well.

I will third the suggestion for Ridge Zinfandels, and will add another that I have spoken of before: Seghesio's Sonoma Red Zin bottling. Its an excellent example of the varietal, isn't as pricey as their single vineyard bottlings (IIRC about $25/btl) and is very high quality.

And as to those old zin vines: they are irreplaceable and look like gnarled little old men.

Last edited by FoieGrasIsEvil; 09-14-2012 at 08:03 AM..
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Old 09-14-2012, 09:13 AM
Athena Athena is offline
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Damn, 1.2%? That is awfully high for a dry red. I guess Athena was right and that it actually was sweet, not just fruity. I didn't remember that when I had it, but it was awhile ago.
Of course I'm right! I'm the Goddess of Wisdom!

And yeah, I've been quiet because I don't want to rain on a parade, but those wines like Menage a Trois, Apothic, and a pile more have a style that's very high in sugar for a wine marketed as dry, along with very little acidity or tannins. They're unbalanced and almost flabby IMO, and really not to my taste at all.

That said, I think they're being marketed to people who don't think they like wine, or like only sweeter whites, and it's working. I see them at a lot of restaurants, served by the glass, and people like 'em. And all the power to them! I think it's great that we're assimilating more people into the Great Wine Cult they're making wine that appeals to a broader section of people.

And the reverse is true, too - I don't know many hardcore wine drinkers who like the style. It's NOT just fruity - it's off-balance on the sugar side. Like others have mentioned, a good Zin can be over-the-top fruity but still have balance and complexity.
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Old 09-14-2012, 10:42 AM
KneadToKnow KneadToKnow is offline
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Originally Posted by Duke of Rat View Post
Another drinkable sweet red wine is Barefoot Sweet Red California. I'm not a fan of tart, acidic, make you pucker wines, but this stuff caught me off guard with how sweet it is.
That's my regular red, which I try to drink 3-4 times a week as part of my cholesterol-lowering regimen. I enjoy it very much.
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Old 09-14-2012, 11:16 AM
pulykamell pulykamell is offline
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Originally Posted by FoieGrasIsEvil View Post
This wine is 1.2g/100ml in residual sugars, which means this is a dry wine. Most dry wines generally will have around a gram or so per 100ml of residual sugar, IIRC because certain types of sugars are difficult/impossible for yeasts to convert to alcohol. Truly sweet wines aren't usually perceived as such by most people until you get upwards of 30 or more grams of sugar per 100ml, and many very sweet wines will have a lot more than that.
I'm wondering if you meant 30g/L, not 100mL. Here's another chart.

1.2% residual sugar would fall on the low side of medium dry or "off dry" wine. Menage a trois is sweet for a dry wine, but it doesn't strike me as particularly sweet overall. Just a nice, easy-drinking wine, tastes best served a bit cooler than your dry and tannic reds. If I want to quaff a wine, which I often do, that one works fine.
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Old 09-14-2012, 12:02 PM
Athena Athena is offline
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Originally Posted by pulykamell View Post
1.2% residual sugar would fall on the low side of medium dry or "off dry" wine. Menage a trois is sweet for a dry wine, but it doesn't strike me as particularly sweet overall. Just a nice, easy-drinking wine, tastes best served a bit cooler than your dry and tannic reds. If I want to quaff a wine, which I often do, that one works fine.
Isn't that what everyone's saying? It's on the sweet side for a dry wine.

I think it's not to my taste because it doesn't have enough acidity or tannins to balance the sweetness. I've have plenty of off-dry wines that I think are great, just not this particular one.

Last edited by Athena; 09-14-2012 at 12:03 PM..
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Old 09-14-2012, 12:23 PM
pulykamell pulykamell is offline
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Isn't that what everyone's saying? It's on the sweet side for a dry wine.
Yes. I'm not disagreeing. I'm trying to suss out Foie Gras's post (assuming he missed by a factor of ten) and am agreeing with the rest of y'all who are saying it's a little bit sweet for a "dry" wine, and that technically it would be "off-dry" or "semi-dry" or somesuch.

Last edited by pulykamell; 09-14-2012 at 12:24 PM..
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  #22  
Old 09-15-2012, 07:12 AM
JackieLikesVariety JackieLikesVariety is offline
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I've been quiet because I don't want to rain on a parade, but those wines like Menage a Trois, Apothic, and a pile more have a style that's very high in sugar for a wine marketed as dry,
no, no - don't hold back! I'd rather hear the truth!

anyway, I LIKE the stuff so I've still got that.

Last edited by JackieLikesVariety; 09-15-2012 at 07:13 AM..
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Old 09-15-2012, 10:32 AM
Gray Ghost Gray Ghost is offline
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no, no - don't hold back! I'd rather hear the truth!

anyway, I LIKE the stuff so I've still got that.
Not to borrow to heavily from Palahniuk, but the first rule of any esthetic appreciation is that if you like it, it's good. For you. (You can go ahead and tell whoever you want about it...) No one else may like it, but that doesn't mean that you are wrong for doing so. If you, like some apocryphal restaurant customers I heard about, enjoy dumping a sweet tea's worth of sugar into your Merlot (after asking the waiter, "Th' shit always taste like this?"), then go and do so. It's your tongue and stomach, after all.

When seeking advice on esthetics, describing your taste in as much detail as possible helps narrow the set of possibilities that you might like. It also provides clues about other things that you might want to try, that you might not like now, but may grow to appreciate. (Or not, it's entirely up to you.)

When describing specific technical characteristics about something, then correct/incorrect can apply. But not mere preference, IMHO.
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Old 09-15-2012, 01:54 PM
Athena Athena is offline
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Yeah, I'm with Gray Ghost - if you like the wine, that's all that matters. And it's helpful to know the style you like so you can find more wines that you like.

Heck, I remember a point in time where I couldn't really distinguish between ANY wines. Red wine tasted like red wine... heck if I could perceive the difference between a cab and a Pinot or whatever. That boggles me now, because I find the differences so pronounced.

So there ya go, the more you drink, the more you'll start to taste the nuances, and next thing you know you'll be waxing poetic about the subtle menthol notes and tobacco finish of that latest wine you found.
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Old 09-15-2012, 02:08 PM
FoieGrasIsEvil FoieGrasIsEvil is offline
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Originally Posted by pulykamell View Post
I'm wondering if you meant 30g/L, not 100mL. Here's another chart.

1.2% residual sugar would fall on the low side of medium dry or "off dry" wine. Menage a trois is sweet for a dry wine, but it doesn't strike me as particularly sweet overall. Just a nice, easy-drinking wine, tastes best served a bit cooler than your dry and tannic reds. If I want to quaff a wine, which I often do, that one works fine.
Yeas, I meant per litre. Shit, I am really slipping!

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Old 09-15-2012, 09:30 PM
John Mace John Mace is offline
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Reading your mention of the Judgment of Paris, the funny thing for me is that Ridge Monte Bello (not a Zin, incidentally.) is probably the most Continental of the wines from America that were tasted. I'm not experienced in it at all, but the few times I've tried it, it was a lot more reticent and less fruit-forward than either Montrose or Mouton.
Right. Monte Bello is estate grown on "Monte Bello Road" near the "Ridge" of the Santa Cruz mountains in Cupertion. Get it? Great place to grow Cab and Chard, but not Zin. Their Zins are from other vineyards all around CA. If anyone ever is in the area, it's a great place to Wine Taste (the Monte Bello tasting room that is; haven't been to the Lytton Springs place in Sonoma although I assume that is wonderful, too).

Quote:
Moving along, I love their Zins, especially Lytton Springs and Geyserville. Pagani and Dusi aren't slouches either. Hard to find a juicier Zin that an over-ripe Pagani. Shame they don't make Lytton Estate anymore. Never heard of the Oltranti til you mentioned it; I'll have to keep an eye out for it. Zin, especially old vine Zin, is IMHO a place where terroir really shines in CA. Those head-trained vines are essentially irreplaceable. Tried another one of the "R's", Rafanelli, the other day. I was really surprised by how restrained it was, compared to what I was expecting. Difficult to find, and somewhat pricey when you do, it's still an interesting glass. Rosenblum's are a lot easier to find, and usually cheaper.
I've been a member for about 5 years now. The Oltranti is pretty rare, and they may not even make it anymore. Thought I had died and gone to heaven the first time I had it.

Last edited by John Mace; 09-15-2012 at 09:30 PM..
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Old 09-15-2012, 11:04 PM
FoieGrasIsEvil FoieGrasIsEvil is offline
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Also, not California Zinfandel conversation is complete without an honorable mention to Cline Cellars for their affordable, juicy California Zin at about $11 a bottle. Their Syrah is very good too.
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Old 09-16-2012, 01:56 AM
Gray Ghost Gray Ghost is offline
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Right. Monte Bello is estate grown on "Monte Bello Road" near the "Ridge" of the Santa Cruz mountains in Cupertion. Get it? Great place to grow Cab and Chard, but not Zin. Their Zins are from other vineyards all around CA. If anyone ever is in the area, it's a great place to Wine Taste (the Monte Bello tasting room that is; haven't been to the Lytton Springs place in Sonoma although I assume that is wonderful, too)...

...I've been a member for about 5 years now. The Oltranti is pretty rare, and they may not even make it anymore. Thought I had died and gone to heaven the first time I had it.
Both tasting rooms are beautiful. The Sonoma building goes for more of the "rustic" farm outbuilding look. The view from up on Montebello ridge is absolutely stunning. The wine's usually not bad either. (snicker). Crazy road to get up there though, especially with all of the bicyclists you have to dodge. Still not as bad as the road to get up to Mount Eden though. And you don't need an appointment, either. Ridge is really worth anyone's time, if they're in the South Bay on a weekend. It's been at least 10 years since I've been up there, but when I was, they had very friendly people working the counter.

I wonder if you could grow Zin up on Montebello? Thought they used to (in the early 80s maybe?) have a Zin from Jimsonaire, (EDIT, actually Jimsomare, and they did make Zin from it.) the now, if I'm not mistaken, wholly-Cab vineyard about halfway up the hill on that road. Not sure if Santa Clara County follows the rule of thumb for Northern Coastal CA that, the higher on the slope you get, the warmer it is. (Fog lingers in the low-lying valleys.) Maybe that's just true for Mendocino?

If it is true for Santa Clara county, then I'd think it might get warm enough for Zin up on the top of the ridge. I think Draper et al, can get a little bit better price for Cab grapes up there than for Zin though.

I wasn't thrilled with the quality for the price as an ATP member. I often wished they'd combine the two bottle shipments into a half case, and send them 4X a year, instead of every month---cut down on shipping costs that way. I also wasn't thrilled at spending in the late 90s, with shipping, ~$30 a bottle for Carignan. OTOH, I wouldn't have gotten any Lytton Estate (Syrah or the Zin), or Pagani Late Picked, or Essence without it, and you used to be able to get 'futures' on Monte Bello as an ATP member. Sounds like I should add the Oltranti to that list.

I agree with you FGIE, on Cline. IME, for the most part, they make affordable, varietally correct wines. Like their lovely Mourvedre.

It's one of the things I miss about living in California. Texas has wineries, but bless their sweet hearts, it's just not the same.

Last edited by Gray Ghost; 09-16-2012 at 01:57 AM..
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Old 09-16-2012, 12:04 PM
John Mace John Mace is offline
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Join Date: Dec 2002
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gray Ghost View Post
I wasn't thrilled with the quality for the price as an ATP member. I often wished they'd combine the two bottle shipments into a half case, and send them 4X a year, instead of every month---cut down on shipping costs that way.
They have been doing that now for about a year. I'm in the 4-bottle deal and I get a case a few times a year instead of a box of 4 almost every month in the late summer/fall.
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