I’m having my roof replaced as we speak, and underneath, it’s noisy. They are putting on an asphalt shingle surface, and using a compressed-air nailgun.
Why compressed air? Isn’t there an electric version that will do the same thing? That would make the power cable a little lighter, remove the need for a bulky compressor, and an electric gun could be made with battery power, removing the cable tether all together.
Yeah, construction techniques aren’t my strong suit.
There are cordless ‘electric’ guns that use an electric spark and combustible gas.
They’re more expensive up front, and more expensive to operate since you have to keep replacing the gas. They’re more useful for applications like interior trimwork where dragging a hose through hallways and around walls is a pain, though they have a framing version too. I haven’t seen them for roofing, and I assume that it’s simply due to the volume of nails that roofing requires…it would burn up gas cartridges pretty quickly.
If I were to hazard a guess, I would say that there are two reasons there isn’t gun that is exclusively electric.
First, electric tools have a lot of things that can break. Pneumatic tools are really very simple.
Second, and I think the biggest obstacle, would be the size of the device. Pushing a nail into/through wood takes quite a bit of force. I’m not any kind of engineer, but I think that by the time you made an electrically driven piston that could drive a nail, you’d end up with something that was too cumbersome, too expensive, or both.
Missed the window, but they DO make electric guns for small applications like wire brads. I’ve even owned one (may still own it…hmmm…) but wasn’t impressed with its performance. Others may have had better luck with them.
They may well exist, but I don’t remember seeing any electric nail guns, though I have seen electric staple guns. Pneumatic nail guns, as you’ve already seen, use a compressor and hoses. The “cordless” ones use little canisters of combustible fuel to drive the nail. They aren’t notably quieter and are considerably more expensive to use, as you are constantly replacing fuel canisters. For high volume work, the pneumatic ones are a more economical choice. The cordless ones have advantages in tight spaces or low volume work where you just want to sink a few nails without all the set-up time a compressor can involve.
Electric nail guns are available.
But only for limited nail sizes. Driving a nail takes high instantaneous power; an elecric nail gun capable of driving framing nails would require an unwieldy large capacitor and electromagnet.
For roofing, it’s possible that electric nail guns could do the job, but if the roofing company already owns a cabinet full of air-powered nail guns, then it’ll be a while before they replace them with anything else - and if they do, it’s likely to be more pneumatic guns, lest they end up with a mix of pneumatic and electric guns that require a mix of power supplies at future job sites.
pneumatic tools have more power for the size as mentioned.
the power is also transported long distances safely, with electrical there is loss at long distances as well as a slight hazard (cords long distance up in the air and around corners and sharp edges).
Yeah I have to agree, having used both the airgun simply our performs the electric, enough so that it’s worth putting up with the hose.
I have seen an electro-pneumatic gun - using an internal cylinder of gas that is compressed by an electric motor. The compressed gas then forces a piston to drive the nail. This is a one shot process, the motor then re-compresses the cylinder of gas. However I don’t think the design is capable of driving roofing nails, nor would it have the duty cycle needed by a tradesman. But a cylinder of compressed gas can store a lot of energy and deliver it pretty quickly. Whilst you could do something similar with a capacitor and solenoid, the overall cost would probably be much higher.
I have a DeWalt electric (rechargeable) nailer for trim, and a pneumatic nailer for framing. One big issue is weight. Gun plus nails plus battery can be heavy, which limits your ability to work overhead.
The other big factor is flexibility. With a big compressor, you can run a number of nail guns at once, but you can also run other kinds of tools as well – sanders, air wrenches, etc. So it’s worthwhile for a contractor simply to have a compressor anyway. At that point you can take advantage of the fact that air tools are about half the price of electric.
As to the Paslode, which is the cartridge-driven nailer, it also requires meticulous scheduled cleaning. Some people don’t want to bother.
That’s really cool, I didn’t even realize there was such a thing!
Huh, cool…my first impression was that the motor compresses the gas, but the gas cylinder actually never loses compression. The motor just moves the piston back in the cylinder:
I talked to the roofing dudes, who just finished. They said that they like the compressed air device better; it’s more powerful and the hose isn’t a problem to lug around. They said the electric battery ones are wimpy and need to be recharged frequently, so they only use them for light jobs or really inaccessible locations.
Yup, that is the beast. I couldn’t remember the name.
The description the manufacturer gives is a truly awful bit of writing, clearly written by someone who had no clue how to express how it works. Yes the cylinder is run at an initial pressure - that ensures that the drive to the nail continues throughout the cycle. But the motor still provides the stored energy, and it does this by further compressing the gas. They seem to be trying to convey how the motor isn’t running during the actual driving of the nail.
The gas cylinder is really functioning in much the same manner as a big spring. The initial pressure in the cylinder is no different to a pre-load on a spring.
As mentioned earlier in the thread, there are cordless nailers that use combustible gas and electric spark. I own this one: http://www.amazon.com/Paslode-CF325-902200-Cordless-Framing/dp/B001FCNN38/ref=pd_cp_hi_0
I bought mine used at Home Depot for $250, and boy has it been well worth the price. I’m finishing my basement at the moment and thought about renting or buying an air compressor and framing nailer, which actually would have been more expensive than what I paid. Yes, you have to pay for the gas, but they last quite a while (between 500-1000 nails depending on how often you ‘false prime’ by setting and not firing a nail, which wastes fuel), and they’re not that expensive. If you were a contractor the cost might be up there…for me, it’s an extra $40 over the course of the project, which still wouldn’t have me break even with buying an air compressor. It drives nails beautifully and I’m so glad I don’t have to deal with the compressor hose. Was really a good buy for this project.
Air power rules the auto mechanics’ world, too.
It’s reliable, fast, tested and the tools are all fairly light. There’s an entire support network around it and the costs, investment and risks are all well-known.
Just food for thought. I’d rather have an air cord versus an electric one around any shop or hazzard area.
Used to work right next to one of their distributors
Then why isn’t a spring used? Poorer weight:performance ratio?
I guess so. There is also more freedom with a gas cylinder - you just change the amount of gas to change the spring characteristics - it may not be actually possible to create a spring with the right mix of length of stroke, preload, and spring constant in the space available - springs run out of travel when the coils touch - something gas doesn’t. Manufacture and repair would be a nightmare too. Preloading the spring versus just gassing up the cylinder.
Gas struts are a good example of something very hard to do with a spring. So I suspect there are a lot of tradeoffs that point to a gas filled cylinder as the best answer. No doubt weight will be right up there too.
Here’s a former construction and machinist monkey with tuppence: pneumatic tools rule for a couple of reasons. An air gun is a paragon of simplicity. There are maybe five moving parts in a big gun and two of them have loose tolerances. You can fire off four 16 penny nails per second all day and the only maintenance is a couple of drops of oil every morning. I can’t even imagine an electrical gun with that kind of performance: it would weigh a ton. You get that same performance as you scale down to brad nailers and pin guns, too, all at a very nice price since they’re pretty simple tools. The overhead is buying a good airflow capable compressor upfront, of course.
…and in re-reading the thread Sicks Ate hit it one.
Well technically two, but thanks 