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  #1  
Old 10-11-2012, 02:10 PM
GQELITE33 GQELITE33 is offline
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The main factors in why people dress down much more today compared to previous generations?

Your thoughts on this?

Only in todays society can you show up to dinner at a five star steakhouse and have someone be surprised to see someone dressed up in a suit.

Same thing goes for a funeral.

I think the only time people find it normal to see someone in a suit is at a wedding.

What factors have caused the average person to want to dress down to functions that once upon a time, you knew you had to dress up?

Also when did dressing up become a chore? People should feel good about putting on a suit and looking sharp.

Nowdays people complain more than not when they are told there is a dress code. It blows my mind really to hear people whine about having to dress up.

Last edited by GQELITE33; 10-11-2012 at 02:12 PM..
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  #2  
Old 10-11-2012, 02:17 PM
GQELITE33 GQELITE33 is offline
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What else is sad is when someone does dress better than their boss, and when you have meetings the people that show up think the employee is the owner.

Last edited by GQELITE33; 10-11-2012 at 02:17 PM..
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Old 10-11-2012, 02:23 PM
gazpacho gazpacho is offline
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People have better thing to do with their lives than put up with arbitrary dress codes. Dress clothes are more expensive to buy, harder to take care of and they are less comfortable.
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Old 10-11-2012, 02:24 PM
even sven even sven is online now
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To begin with, a lot more people are doing these things. Even the relatively poor today could, if they prioritized it, visit an expensive steakhouse without making too much of a financial dent. Generations ago, this probably wouldn't be possible without sacrificing money for medicine, heating, daily food or other essentials. It didn't used to be normal to work in offices, attend college, go to the bank, shop at department stores, travel long distances, dine out, etc. So when people did these things, they dressed up. Now we see these things as everyday, and so we don't make as much of a big deal of it. Yesteryear's cross country flight was a once-in-a-lifetime event. Today's is just a hassle.

Our clothing habits have changed. All clothing used to be relatively expensive, requiring skilled tailors and pricey raw materials from far-flung places. People tended to have fewer sets of clothes, which they would wear carefully and repair as needed. Today, we tend to want to have many sets of clothes which we wash frequently and rarely repair. And we have developed mass production that has made clothing cheap. A casual, less tailored look is a better match for this paradigm.

Finally, we have the invention of cool and youth culture. Cool requires looking like you don't care too much. Bankers and lawyers are not cool. Musicians, students and other less-employed people are cool. And these people can wear casual wear.
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Old 10-11-2012, 02:26 PM
Sister Vigilante Sister Vigilante is offline
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Because it's a pain in the ass, takes more time to get ready, and costs more money. I want to roll out of bed, put a shirt on, a pair of pants, slip on some sandals, and be done. No pantyhose, no dresses, no skirts. I refuses to wear any of those items ever again.

My boss dresses nicely, but it doesn't stop her from wandering around the office barefoot when she feels like it.
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  #6  
Old 10-11-2012, 02:27 PM
Ludovic Ludovic is offline
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Originally Posted by GQELITE33 View Post
Your thoughts on this?

Only in todays society can you show up to dinner at a five star steakhouse and have someone be surprised to see someone dressed up in a suit.

Same thing goes for a funeral.
Last time I went to a funeral, around 8 years ago, there were plenty of people in suits, including myself. Has this changed?

ETA: I did however wear a brightly colored tie because I didn't know the black tie rule. If I ever go to another one, I probably still won't buy a black tie just for the occasion.

Last edited by Ludovic; 10-11-2012 at 02:28 PM..
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Old 10-11-2012, 02:30 PM
Yorikke Yorikke is offline
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You couldn't get white onions, because of the war. The only thing you could get was those big yellow ones...
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Old 10-11-2012, 02:31 PM
DrFidelius DrFidelius is online now
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Don't care why others dress down. Makes me look sharper.
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  #9  
Old 10-11-2012, 02:40 PM
Voyager Voyager is offline
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My guess is role models. When I was a kid any adult you saw higher than waiter or ditch digger was in a suit. But then we started getting people like Bill Gates who hardly ever wore suits but were looked up to and made billions. When we moved to Silicon Valley 16 years ago we noticed that people here were a lot less dressed up than people in NJ - this is starting to spread.
Also, when people get away with it a lot follow. Today no one at the conference I attend wears a suit to give a paper. When I was General Chair I wore one to give the introductory remarks - no more. Even salesmen don't wear suits on sales calls any more.
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Old 10-11-2012, 02:47 PM
GQELITE33 GQELITE33 is offline
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Dressing up takes time, effort and money invested into a persons image. The more they do that, the more they make a statement that they care about themselves. A person who wants to be perceived as a leader and set an example, dresses up. People that are comfortable just being one of the sheep, dresses down. Bill Gates was never the type of guy that would ever dress up. He was a hippie nerd savant who had high intelligence and even though he is very smart he is very ignorant when it comes to style sense.

In my profession, I want people to know I am the boss. I am the leader of the pack. I want them to say "There is the Alpha Male!"

I have always taken pride in my clothing and having it pressed and dry cleaned and making sure it looks great. I shine my shoes a couple times a week.I make sure I groom myself at an exceptional level and smell nice. It makes me feel good and gives me confidence in myself. If I look in the mirror and look like I should be giving a speech in front of thousands, I will feel like a bad ass. I will feel power. Thats the way I look at it. Its all psychological.

Last edited by GQELITE33; 10-11-2012 at 02:50 PM..
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  #11  
Old 10-11-2012, 02:47 PM
Machine Elf Machine Elf is offline
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Originally Posted by Ludovic View Post
Last time I went to a funeral, around 8 years ago, there were plenty of people in suits, including myself. Has this changed?
I work in a laboratory setting, so Very Nice Clothes are a bad idea. I typically wear jeans and a golf shirt (and steel-toed boots) to work, and even with a lab coat on, my jeans often get dirty. My boss for the past decade or so always wore dress pants, a button-front shirt, and a tie, and it certainly did give him a professional bearing. My new boss is much more casual, and I think I even outdress him on some days.

I hadn't worn a suit for years and years, until last year when my wife's boss died, and I suddenly had to attend my first funeral; we rushed out and bought a suit for me. Dressing up is one way people recognize special occasions (even sad ones), and I felt like it would have been rude to show up in ordinary street clothes as if it were just another social gathering.

I feel the same way about going to nice restaurants. Wearing jeans and a t-shirt is fine if you're going to Chili's or McDonald's, but if you're headed to the kind of restaurant where a team of five waiters simultaneously present the food to everyone at your table, dressing in clothing appropriate to the scene seems like the thing to do; "the food was delicious, and everyone looked nice, too."
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Old 10-11-2012, 02:55 PM
GQELITE33 GQELITE33 is offline
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Originally Posted by Machine Elf View Post
I work in a laboratory setting, so Very Nice Clothes are a bad idea. I typically wear jeans and a golf shirt (and steel-toed boots) to work, and even with a lab coat on, my jeans often get dirty. My boss for the past decade or so always wore dress pants, a button-front shirt, and a tie, and it certainly did give him a professional bearing. My new boss is much more casual, and I think I even outdress him on some days.

I hadn't worn a suit for years and years, until last year when my wife's boss died, and I suddenly had to attend my first funeral; we rushed out and bought a suit for me. Dressing up is one way people recognize special occasions (even sad ones), and I felt like it would have been rude to show up in ordinary street clothes as if it were just another social gathering.

I feel the same way about going to nice restaurants. Wearing jeans and a t-shirt is fine if you're going to Chili's or McDonald's, but if you're headed to the kind of restaurant where a team of five waiters simultaneously present the food to everyone at your table, dressing in clothing appropriate to the scene seems like the thing to do; "the food was delicious, and everyone looked nice, too."
An old mentor of mine always said "Dress the part."

That is some of the best advice I ever received.

If you are a businessman, dress like the owner of the best company in the world.

If you are a musician, dress like a rockstar.

If you work in the factory and build motorcycles, get some tattoos and wear a cut off t-shirt.

If you owned a motorcyle shop, and a big biker came in and saw you dressed in a suit , you could possibly turn him away.

If you are a businessman on wall street and showed up with a cut off shirt and tattoos, people would not take you seriously and you more than likely would be sent home.

Its all the way you want to be perceived in life. Want to be taken seriously? Dress the part!

If you go to a fine dining establishment, dress the part. Its that simple.

Last edited by GQELITE33; 10-11-2012 at 02:58 PM..
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  #13  
Old 10-11-2012, 03:11 PM
Exapno Mapcase Exapno Mapcase is online now
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The simple answer is that most western countries used to have a distinct class system in which your mode of dress indicated your place in that system. It worked because the lower classes were so large a piece of the system, and the upper classes controlled the image-making machinery.

WWII broke that class system. The middle class grew to astounding size in the U.S. Their values and their money came to dominate the culture. It took time. The 50s still saw dressing up for most occasions, but the 60s and 70s made a huge rise in leisure time and leisure activities possible by the leap in disposable income and most people started to prefer keeping that leisure dress on a regular basis. Having everybody dress alike was an affirmation of the strength of the middle class. It's the same force that turned a college degree from a luxury earned by 5% of the population to a mandated standard requiring 60% of the population to attend some college. White collar jobs no longer stood out. They were the norm. You didn't need to dress up to prove you were special. It's taken for granted.

Most of us old enough to remember when you had to wear a coat and tie to work every day don't miss those times at all. Suits are awful: expensive, uncomfortable, hard to maintain, and unflattering on most figures. And then you had to add ties, shoes, dress shirts, and all the paraphernalia that goes with them. Forget it. I've worn jeans of some color almost every single day since I left the formal office 22 years ago. The casual culture is as wonderful a part of the new modern world as acceptance for minorities is. You're not going to get me to go back on either one.
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Old 10-11-2012, 03:21 PM
Pleonast Pleonast is offline
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People wear what they want to wear, and are less affected by peer pressure than people in the past were. It's that simple.
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Old 10-11-2012, 03:30 PM
Procrustus Procrustus is offline
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People wear what they want to wear, and are less affected by peer pressure than people in the past were. It's that simple.
Yep. I'm the boss, so I can dress as I please. My employees don't care if I'm in jeans every day, and I don't care too much what they wear. Perhaps we've reached a time where people can be judged on more important things.

When I'm in a courtroom, I wear a suit. When I'm at a funeral (and most weddings), I wear a suit. Otherwise, I'm wearing something I can spill on.
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Old 10-11-2012, 03:31 PM
Yarster Yarster is offline
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While I would certainly agree that the fact role models and captains of industry (Richard Branson, Steve Jobs, Bill Gates) seldom wear suits, which contributes to making the statement that not doing so is o.k., I think the real reason it started to occur is the result of it being a low/no cost concession to improve employee morale. Every business is looking for ways to get employees to do more with less and everyone wants to attract top quality personnel. So, if I want to give my employees a 'bonus', that doesn't cost me as an employer any money, I tell employees they get to dress down, which hopefully gives the impression of a more homey feel to the company, and saves the employee money in dry cleaning costs. Then everyone in the industry starts doing it, so I have to up the ante...

It started off as 'casual Friday' where even that meant "wear Dockers and a button down shirt", which evolved into "jeans and a button down shirt", which eventually evolved into "just wear clothes that are clean and don't smell".


Now carry that forward a while in time, and the management wants to seem more like their workers, so they also dress down. Next thing you know, people are no longer buying suits or nice clothes, and thus, they don't have nicer clothes to wear when they go out, and their behavior is reinforced by everyone else not dressing up.

I still have to dress up in a suit for work, but that said, I hate dressing up when I go out, even if it is to a nice steakhouse, where I will still wear slacks and a button down shirt or polo, but never a suit. Why? Because a tie will always find it's way into my food if I'm not careful, and if I stain my polo or button down, it is no big deal and I can launder it at home. If I stain my wool suit jacket, it is a race against time if it is oil based (i.e. every God-damned salad dressing which always makes a break for freedom off the edge of a lettuce sprig on it's way to my mouth) and I have to go to a dry cleaner. If I forget to treat the stain on a polo, big deal, I throw it out. But a ruined suit jacket means the whole suit is hosed and that's some serious expense. I actually try to avoid eating salads for lunch during the week when I am dressed in a suit to avoid this problem.

Last edited by Yarster; 10-11-2012 at 03:32 PM..
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  #17  
Old 10-11-2012, 03:39 PM
leahcim leahcim is offline
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Originally Posted by GQELITE33 View Post
Dressing up takes time, effort and money invested into a persons image. The more they do that, the more they make a statement that they care about themselves. A person who wants to be perceived as a leader and set an example, dresses up. People that are comfortable just being one of the sheep, dresses down. Bill Gates was never the type of guy that would ever dress up. He was a hippie nerd savant who had high intelligence and even though he is very smart he is very ignorant when it comes to style sense.

In my profession, I want people to know I am the boss. I am the leader of the pack. I want them to say "There is the Alpha Male!"
I think exactly the opposite of this. Where I work, I have skills that are valued and I am valued for having those skills. Dressing down says, "look, I am not fucking around here, you are talking to the guy who gets stuff done, and that has nothing to do with whether or not I am wearing a tie". Leave the "uniform" for insecure people who need propping up.

I have to think this comes from late-90s tech culture, when computer skills became a lot more important all of the sudden, and a generation of college graduates rose rapidly through the ranks without being indoctrinated into "business culture" first.
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Old 10-11-2012, 03:50 PM
suranyi suranyi is offline
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Your thoughts on this?

Only in todays society can you show up to dinner at a five star steakhouse and have someone be surprised to see someone dressed up in a suit.

Same thing goes for a funeral.

I think the only time people find it normal to see someone in a suit is at a wedding.

What factors have caused the average person to want to dress down to functions that once upon a time, you knew you had to dress up?

Also when did dressing up become a chore? People should feel good about putting on a suit and looking sharp.

Nowdays people complain more than not when they are told there is a dress code. It blows my mind really to hear people whine about having to dress up.
I would agree that one rarely sees people in suits at restaurants nowadays. But they're still pretty common at funerals. I was at one just a few years ago and most men were in suits.

Actually, I don't mind wearing a suit -- occasionally. A couple of months ago my wife and I celebrated our anniversary at a very expensive restaurant that is one of the few that still requires men to wear jackets. And I'm talking really expensive -- about $100 per person, without drinks.

But I'm glad I don't have to wear one every day.
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Old 10-11-2012, 03:52 PM
Telemark Telemark is offline
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If you go to a fine dining establishment, dress the part. Its that simple.
I'm not going to a fine dining establishment to impress anyone; I'm going to have a fine dining experience. For me that means dressing in something nicer than jeans and a t-shirt, but business casual certainly is enough. There is no "part" unless society decides there is one; and society seems less and less inclined to include suits and fancy dresses in that mix.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GQELITE33
A person who wants to be perceived as a leader and set an example, dresses up. People that are comfortable just being one of the sheep, dresses down.
Only in some groups; certainly not in mine. I work in the software engineering world, and my bosses show up in shorts, t-shirts, and sandals. That's perfectly acceptable, and these guys are technology leaders. They earned their respect by their work, not what they wore to work.

Style is arbitrary and fluid. You seem stuck in the static past. Not to say that I don't enjoy dressing up from time to time but the rigid rules of the past are no longer accepted as the only way to go.
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Old 10-11-2012, 03:52 PM
suranyi suranyi is offline
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I think exactly the opposite of this. Where I work, I have skills that are valued and I am valued for having those skills. Dressing down says, "look, I am not fucking around here, you are talking to the guy who gets stuff done, and that has nothing to do with whether or not I am wearing a tie". Leave the "uniform" for insecure people who need propping up.

I have to think this comes from late-90s tech culture, when computer skills became a lot more important all of the sudden, and a generation of college graduates rose rapidly through the ranks without being indoctrinated into "business culture" first.
That's true, but the the guy in the suit is the guy who tells the guy like you what stuff to get done.
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Old 10-11-2012, 03:53 PM
gazpacho gazpacho is offline
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I think exactly the opposite of this. Where I work, I have skills that are valued and I am valued for having those skills. Dressing down says, "look, I am not fucking around here, you are talking to the guy who gets stuff done, and that has nothing to do with whether or not I am wearing a tie". Leave the "uniform" for insecure people who need propping up.
Exactly. When you refer to someone as a "suit" it is not usually a complement.
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Old 10-11-2012, 03:56 PM
flano1 flano1 is offline
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Blame the Baby Boomers!

No more Sunday-Going-To-Meeting-Clothes for us!

I remember reacting with a lot of angst when my mother would insist that we kids put on good clothes to go downtown to do the shopping.

" What would the neighbours think? ". Harumph, I say.

So when we became all growed up and those over 30 faded away we just wore what we always wanted.

As an aside, you'll notice a vast array of hairstyles and lengths; nobody cares as long as you are clean and don't pollute your natural bodily essences!
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Old 10-11-2012, 03:56 PM
GQELITE33 GQELITE33 is offline
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If I go out and spend money on nice clothes, I am gonna wear them. Get my moneys worth out of them. Then I will go out and buy some new clothes that are nice, and wear those as much as I can.

If I invest money into something, I don't want it sitting in a closet for months on end. I will make sure to wear them when I can. If I go to a steakhouse where the waiters are in tuxes, that tells me that wearing a suit is more than acceptable. Why would you own dress clothes and not wear them? When you invest money into something, get your moneys worth out of them. Thats they way I look at it. Find places where you can go to do this.

Thats why when I go out , I go to nice places. Cause I invest money into slacks, dress shirts, and suits.

You don't want to open your closet and see that moths ate holes in your clothes do you? Also let me tell ya something.

Why in the world do people find that dressing up is hard work? If looking sharp is hard work or uncomfortable, then that is really bazarre to me.. Just my two cents.

Last edited by GQELITE33; 10-11-2012 at 04:00 PM..
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  #24  
Old 10-11-2012, 03:57 PM
TriPolar TriPolar is online now
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Clothing is much less expensive and less functional now.
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Old 10-11-2012, 04:00 PM
Blakeyrat Blakeyrat is offline
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That's true, but the the guy in the suit is the guy who tells the guy like you what stuff to get done.
I work in IT in Seattle. This isn't true in any company I've worked at. In fact, in my first professional position, I usually out-dressed the CEO. (And I was just wearing normal business casual attire.) The boss I most respect wore blue jeans and torn concert t-shirts from 15 years ago, every day.

It's not the 60s anymore.
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Old 10-11-2012, 04:01 PM
GQELITE33 GQELITE33 is offline
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I work in IT in Seattle. This isn't true in any company I've worked at. In fact, in my first professional position, I usually out-dressed the CEO. (And I was just wearing normal business casual attire.) The boss I most respect wore blue jeans and torn concert t-shirts from 15 years ago, every day.

It's not the 60s anymore.
You are from the northwest. You won't find that to be true in New York.
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Old 10-11-2012, 04:02 PM
Great Antibob Great Antibob is offline
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If I go out and spend money on nice clothes, I am gonna wear them.
Ok, so that works for you.

Why should that mean it works for everybody else?

Rather than the question you originally asked, you are explicitly stating, "Why don't other people share MY values and what's wrong with THEM?", which is an entirely different kettle of fish.
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Old 10-11-2012, 04:03 PM
GQELITE33 GQELITE33 is offline
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Doesn't it make you feel good to hop in a hot shower, have a nice shave, put on some deodorant and maybe a little mens fragrance like Clubman, and then throw on a nice outfit ? I mean who in their right mind wouldn't like that? Get out of bed and throw on sweats and gym shoes and a t-shirt when you are going out for dinner? You don't have to wear a suit, but atleast groom yourself well and wear a pair of slacks and a polo. When people dress like they just got out of bed, that tells me "I don't really have that much confidence in myself to pull off a suit or a really nice outfit."

Last edited by GQELITE33; 10-11-2012 at 04:05 PM..
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Old 10-11-2012, 04:08 PM
Great Antibob Great Antibob is offline
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Doesn't it make you feel good to hop in a hot shower, have a nice shave, put on some deodorant and maybe a little mens fragrance like Clubman, and then throw on a nice outfit ?
For me? Sure.

Why does that mean it works for everybody else? You never really answered that, other than implying it's self-evident (hint: it's not).

Again, you seem to be answering a different question than your original one. You are no longer asking about the main factors in why people dress the way they do (which have been given by other posters) and are now asking why people have different values than yourself.

If you want to know why other people have different values and contend those values are a "bad" thing, that's more of a debate topic, rather than a question with factual answers.
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Old 10-11-2012, 04:09 PM
SirRay SirRay is offline
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That's true, but the the guy in the suit is the guy who tells the guy like you what stuff to get done.
Well, more commonly around these parts, likely the guy in the suit is either a security guard or insurance/investment salesman.
Heck, even politicians seems to be wearing more business casual nowadays
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Old 10-11-2012, 04:10 PM
GQELITE33 GQELITE33 is offline
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Well, more commonly around these parts, likely the guy in the suit is either a security guard or insurance/investment salesman.
Heck, even politicians seems to be wearing more business casual nowadays
When they are campaigning in blue collar communities. In the White House they will always be dressed in a suit.
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Old 10-11-2012, 04:11 PM
GQELITE33 GQELITE33 is offline
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For me? Sure.

Why does that mean it works for everybody else? You never really answered that, other than implying it's self-evident (hint: it's not).

Again, you seem to be answering a different question than your original one. You are no longer asking about the main factors in why people dress the way they do (which have been given by other posters) and are now asking why people have different values than yourself.

If you want to know why other people have different values and contend those values are a "bad" thing, that's more of a debate topic, rather than a question with factual answers.
Just between me and you, how the heck does a person go out of their house without a fresh shower and shave? Its the same thing as how does a person wake up in the morning without having a cup of coffee, water, or juice.

Its odd.

Last edited by GQELITE33; 10-11-2012 at 04:11 PM..
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Old 10-11-2012, 04:11 PM
lazybratsche lazybratsche is offline
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Doesn't it make you feel good to hop in a hot shower, have a nice shave, put on some deodorant and maybe a little mens fragrance like Clubman, and then throw on a nice outfit ? I mean who in their right mind wouldn't like that?
A lot of people apparently. Unless you're seriously arguing that all the kids these days are literally not in their right mind?

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Get out of bed and throw on sweats and gym shoes and a t-shirt when you are going out for dinner? You don't have to wear a suit, but atleast groom yourself well and wear a pair of slacks and a polo.
Why? Because some old codger disapproves of me; because I don't meet their personal grooming standards?

Meh. I don't have to impress you, or anyone else in my life. (At least not with my clothing.)

Really, I'd stand out as rather eccentric if I did wear a suite every day. In academia, slacks + shirt with buttons counts as "dressing up" when giving a talk at a big time international conference.

Last edited by lazybratsche; 10-11-2012 at 04:12 PM..
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  #34  
Old 10-11-2012, 04:12 PM
Blakeyrat Blakeyrat is offline
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You are from the northwest. You won't find that to be true in New York.
I purposefully put my location in the post because:
1) Nobody/few other people are
2) This question is very region-specific

Because you're right: the East Coast is full of companies who have dress codes, require suits, etc. The West Coast is altogether more casual.

Which is why I live here and love it so much.
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  #35  
Old 10-11-2012, 04:13 PM
Bosstone Bosstone is offline
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Originally Posted by GQELITE33 View Post
Just between me and you, how the heck does a person go out of their house without a fresh shower and shave?
Wait, wait.

Either you're talking about wearing casual clothing, or you're talking about basic hygiene such as showering and shaving. They are not the same thing.
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  #36  
Old 10-11-2012, 04:14 PM
leahcim leahcim is offline
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Originally Posted by GQELITE33 View Post
You are from the northwest. You won't find that to be true in New York.
I find that to be true in New York.
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  #37  
Old 10-11-2012, 04:16 PM
Blakeyrat Blakeyrat is offline
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Originally Posted by GQELITE33 View Post
Doesn't it make you feel good to hop in a hot shower, have a nice shave, put on some deodorant and maybe a little mens fragrance like Clubman, and then throw on a nice outfit ? I mean who in their right mind wouldn't like that? Get out of bed and throw on sweats and gym shoes and a t-shirt when you are going out for dinner? You don't have to wear a suit, but atleast groom yourself well and wear a pair of slacks and a polo. When people dress like they just got out of bed, that tells me "I don't really have that much confidence in myself to pull off a suit or a really nice outfit."
Ok, we've gone off the rails here.

What about wearing casual clothing implies bad grooming? Do you think that because I wear blue jeans and a button-up shirt to work, I must have awful BO and crazy Einstein hair? There's no connection between the two things.

But to answer your question:

Quote:
Originally Posted by GQELITE33 View Post
Doesn't it make you feel good to hop in a hot shower, have a nice shave, put on some deodorant and maybe a little mens fragrance like Clubman, and then throw on a nice outfit ?
No. Not really. I don't have whatever quirk of personality that would make throwing on a nice outfit enjoyable.

Confidence? Ridiculous. Confidence is demonstrated by what you do, not how you look. Maybe I'm not dressed as nicely as my colleague, but he took months to write some Ruby code that took 20 hours to execute, I wrote code to do the same thing in 3 days and it executes in 6 minutes. And I don't even like Ruby.

I know I've got the skills. That's confidence. It has nothing to do with what I'm wearing.

Last edited by Blakeyrat; 10-11-2012 at 04:18 PM..
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  #38  
Old 10-11-2012, 04:17 PM
Inner Stickler Inner Stickler is offline
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Originally Posted by GQELITE33 View Post
Just between me and you, how the heck does a person go out of their house without a fresh shower and shave? Its the same thing as how does a person wake up in the morning without having a cup of coffee, water, or juice.

Its odd.
It's pretty complicated but my understanding is that it goes something like this: they wake up, they get dressed, they open the front door, (now here comes the tricky bit) they go out the door, turn around and close it, and be about their way.

Also, what makes a shower fresh? Are there people taking stale showers? How does a shower go off anyway?
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  #39  
Old 10-11-2012, 04:17 PM
Great Antibob Great Antibob is offline
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Originally Posted by GQELITE33 View Post
Its the same thing as how does a person wake up in the morning without having a cup of coffee, water, or juice.
Um, no.

Basic hygiene is still expected.

Wearing a suit is not.

Waking up without the need for juice, coffee, or water is also not.

Again, you seem to be addressing a different point about values and customs, rather than about casual vs formal clothing.
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  #40  
Old 10-11-2012, 04:18 PM
Procrustus Procrustus is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GQELITE33 View Post
Doesn't it make you feel good to hop in a hot shower, have a nice shave, put on some deodorant and maybe a little mens fragrance like Clubman, and then throw on a nice outfit ? I mean who in their right mind wouldn't like that? Get out of bed and throw on sweats and gym shoes and a t-shirt when you are going out for dinner? You don't have to wear a suit, but atleast groom yourself well and wear a pair of slacks and a polo. When people dress like they just got out of bed, that tells me "I don't really have that much confidence in myself to pull off a suit or a really nice outfit."
My wife would leave me if I put on a "little mens fragrance." Ugh. I think the pushback you're hearing is that for many of us, dressing up seems to be unnecessary if we're confident already. Maybe even a bit pretentious. Certainly not worth the effort.

I was at a fancy restaurant two nights ago. Dinner and wine for four of us exceeded $600. The three men at the table were all wearing jeans. ( I was also wearing tennis shoes, very comfortable) We had a very nice dinner.
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  #41  
Old 10-11-2012, 04:20 PM
Pleonast Pleonast is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GQELITE33 View Post
Doesn't it make you feel good to hop in a hot shower, have a nice shave, put on some deodorant and maybe a little mens fragrance like Clubman, and then throw on a nice outfit ? I mean who in their right mind wouldn't like that? Get out of bed and throw on sweats and gym shoes and a t-shirt when you are going out for dinner? You don't have to wear a suit, but atleast groom yourself well and wear a pair of slacks and a polo. When people dress like they just got out of bed, that tells me "I don't really have that much confidence in myself to pull off a suit or a really nice outfit."
What you're not getting is what you think of as "nice outfit" doesn't really match what a lot of other people think of as a "nice outfit".

And discerning confidence level based of dress doesn't work like you think it does. Confident people are confident no matter what they wear. Good looking people are good looking no matte what they wear. It doesn't take anything special to wear a suit--it means that person likes to wear a suit. Just like it doesn't mean anything when someone wears a tee and sweats, other than that's what they wanted to put on.
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  #42  
Old 10-11-2012, 04:22 PM
GQELITE33 GQELITE33 is offline
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Originally Posted by Procrustus View Post
My wife would leave me if I put on a "little mens fragrance." Ugh. I think the pushback you're hearing is that for many of us, dressing up seems to be unnecessary if we're confident already. Maybe even a bit pretentious. Certainly not worth the effort.

I was at a fancy restaurant two nights ago. Dinner and wine for four of us exceeded $600. The three men at the table were all wearing jeans. ( I was also wearing tennis shoes, very comfortable) We had a very nice dinner.
I think this all comes down to a pychological standpoint.

If I feel more confident wearing a suit , then I will wear a suit.

If you want to wear jeans and gym shoes, and feel more confident doing that, be my guest.

One thing is for certain though. I will look like I stepped out of GQ magazine and you will look like you stepped out of bed.
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  #43  
Old 10-11-2012, 04:23 PM
Blakeyrat Blakeyrat is offline
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Originally Posted by GQELITE33 View Post
One thing is for certain though. I will look like I stepped out of GQ magazine and you will look like you stepped out of bed.
... and?

That doesn't bother me. No matter how much you'd like it to-- I'm sorry, it just doesn't bother me.

I don't even read GQ magazine.
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  #44  
Old 10-11-2012, 04:26 PM
Procrustus Procrustus is offline
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Originally Posted by GQELITE33 View Post


One thing is for certain though. I will look like I stepped out of GQ magazine and you will look like you stepped out of bed.
The strange thing is, you apparently would prefer to look like you stepped out of a GQ magazine and I'd rather roll around in old fish than look "GQ." The SDMB is a great way to discover there are all kinds of people in the world. Before arriving here, I literally had no idea so many men urinated sitting down, or that some men honestly enjoyed dancing. Everyone is not like me, even in ways I never imagined. I think the same thing is happening to you in this thread. Relax and enjoy the ride.
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  #45  
Old 10-11-2012, 04:26 PM
skdo23 skdo23 is offline
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Originally Posted by GQELITE33 View Post
If you are a businessman, dress like the owner of the best company in the world.'
In other words, dress like these guys.

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  #46  
Old 10-11-2012, 04:27 PM
GQELITE33 GQELITE33 is offline
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Originally Posted by Blakeyrat View Post
... and?

That doesn't bother me. No matter how much you'd like it to-- I'm sorry, it just doesn't bother me.

I don't even read GQ magazine.
So if you see a beautiful woman from across the room and you were single, who do you think she would more than likely respect more? The guy in the suit, or the guy in the pair of jeans and gym shoes? Especially if she is out at a five star restaurant with a cocktail dress on?'

See this is the problem. Your values are not on the same level as I and the thousands of others who share my point of view. Not saying you are a bad person cause you are not. Just saying there are certain things that you must do to attract the attention of certain people in life and one of those things is dressing better than everyone else.
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  #47  
Old 10-11-2012, 04:29 PM
Bosstone Bosstone is offline
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Originally Posted by GQELITE33 View Post
Your values are not on the same level as I and the thousands of others who share my point of view.
And your values are not on the same level as our and the thousands of others who share our point of view.

I'm sorry, but the not-so-subtle attempt at appeal to popularity won't work.
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  #48  
Old 10-11-2012, 04:31 PM
Blakeyrat Blakeyrat is offline
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Originally Posted by GQELITE33 View Post
So if you see a beautiful woman from across the room and you were single, who do you think she would more than likely respect more? The guy in the suit, or the guy in the pair of jeans and gym shoes? Especially if she is out at a five star restaurant with a cocktail dress on?'
To give the cliched and expected answer, if she's that shallow I don't want to meet her.

But more seriously, despite my looking like a slob (by your definition), I've never had any problems in that department. Maybe you're hanging out at the wrong bars.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GQELITE33 View Post
See this is the problem. Your values are not on the same level as I and the thousands of others who share my point of view. Not saying you are a bad person cause you are not. Just saying there are certain things that you must do to attract the attention of certain people in life and one of those things is dressing better than everyone else.
You haven't yet demonstrated that your point-of-view is the majority view, or even a common view.
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  #49  
Old 10-11-2012, 04:31 PM
Inner Stickler Inner Stickler is offline
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Originally Posted by GQELITE33 View Post
See this is the problem. Your values are not on the same level as I and the thousands of others who share my point of view. Not saying you are a bad person cause you are not. Just saying there are certain things that you must do to attract the attention of certain people in life and one of those things is dressing better than everyone else.
Which do you want? People to dress better or the advantage of dressing better than anyone else?
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  #50  
Old 10-11-2012, 04:45 PM
filling_pages filling_pages is offline
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Originally Posted by GQELITE33 View Post
So if you see a beautiful woman from across the room and you were single, who do you think she would more than likely respect more? The guy in the suit, or the guy in the pair of jeans and gym shoes? Especially if she is out at a five star restaurant with a cocktail dress on?'
Frankly, if I see a beautiful woman from across the room she is probably drinking a beer at a punk show. Sure, she'd probably be into a rude boy in a nice suit, but she's just as likely to respect my jeans and boots. Lucky for me, eh?
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