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Old 11-27-2012, 12:55 PM
Exapno Mapcase Exapno Mapcase is offline
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Punctuation for multiple quotes in one sentence

Say that I'm writing about answers people have given to a survey. Does each one get its own period?

The responses included both "I decided to vote at the last minute." and "I made my decision weeks before the election."

or

The responses included both, "I decided to vote at the last minute" and "I made my decision weeks before the election."

I can't find this in my Chicago Manual of Style.
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Old 11-27-2012, 01:03 PM
pulykamell pulykamell is online now
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It's the second, but let me try to dig up an official site. (Except I wouldn't use the comma.)

Last edited by pulykamell; 11-27-2012 at 01:04 PM.
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Old 11-27-2012, 01:06 PM
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I don't have the Chicago manual right here so I don't know if this is their style, but the way I learned it was if a quote is a complete sentence it gets its own period. And of course the period goes inside the quote.

If they are not complete sentences, each does not get a period. If one of the quotes ends the sentence, the sentence period goes inside the quote (American usage) or outside the quote (British usage).
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Old 11-27-2012, 01:10 PM
TriPolar TriPolar is online now
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I use the second form because it flows better. Seems to me the quote ends the sentence if there's no ellipsis.

Last edited by TriPolar; 11-27-2012 at 01:11 PM.
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Old 11-27-2012, 01:13 PM
pulykamell pulykamell is online now
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I've never been taught to use the period in a quotation encapsulated within another sentence.

For example, the rule here says:

Quote:
A direct quotation is set off from the rest of the sentence by commas. Do not use a period to end a sentence quoted within another sentence.
I cannot think of a time I have ever seen a period used like that. Question marks and exclamation points, yes. But not a period.
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Old 11-27-2012, 01:33 PM
Musicat Musicat is offline
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Do it this way:

The responses included both, "I decided to vote at the last minute," and "I made my decision weeks before the election."

The period that was formerly at the end of the first quoted sentence is replaced by a comma. This is also true of lists of words enclosed in a single sentence.

Reference: The Gregg Reference Manual, ninth ed., by William A. Sabin, par. 247a&b

Examples: Their latest article, "Scanning the Future of E-Commerce," will appear in next month's issue of Inc. Magazine.

"All he would say was 'I don't remember,'" answered the witness.
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Old 11-27-2012, 01:39 PM
Jragon Jragon is offline
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What if the punctuation is important?

For instance:

As I was walking down the hall I saw a sign that said "Stop" another that said "Stop." and yet another than said "Stop!"

Is that when you just throw out the sentence and do something else?
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Old 11-27-2012, 01:42 PM
Musicat Musicat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jragon View Post
What if the punctuation is important?

For instance:

As I was walking down the hall I saw a sign that said "Stop" another that said "Stop." and yet another than said "Stop!"

Is that when you just throw out the sentence and do something else?
Some rules just cry out to be broken.

One way could be this: "...another that said, "Stop." [sic]..."

[sic] can be used when the author wants to let everyone know that what is written is not a mistake, and/or came from the original. It seems to fit in this case.
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Old 11-27-2012, 01:57 PM
Jragon Jragon is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Musicat View Post
Some rules just cry out to be broken.

One way could be this: "...another that said, "Stop." [sic]..."

[sic] can be used when the author wants to let everyone know that what is written is not a mistake, and/or came from the original. It seems to fit in this case.
Huh, I was not aware that you could use [sic] for anything other than a mistake in the original source. I guess sometimes breaking rules is cleaner than following them, though.

Also,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jragon View Post
As I was walking down the hall I saw a sign that said "Stop" another that said "Stop." and yet another than said "Stop!"
That "than" really should have a t instead on an "n"...
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Old 11-27-2012, 02:26 PM
TriPolar TriPolar is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jragon View Post
That "than" really should have a t instead on an "n"...
As I was walking down the hall I saw a sign that said "Stop" another that said "Stop." and yet another than[sic] said "Stop!"
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Old 11-27-2012, 02:32 PM
njtt njtt is offline
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I agree with Musicat. If it is a quote within a sentence it can't end with a period, but it should have a comma in place of the period that would otherwise be there.
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Old 11-27-2012, 02:41 PM
pulykamell pulykamell is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jragon View Post
What if the punctuation is important?

For instance:

As I was walking down the hall I saw a sign that said "Stop" another that said "Stop." and yet another than said "Stop!"

Is that when you just throw out the sentence and do something else?
That's a pain in the ass, as you need commas in there, too. When you run into this sort of stuff in programming books, where a period has syntactic meaning to the computer and is not just used as an end-of-sentence marker, the usual convention is to set the type in another font (usually something like Courier.) I've never took quotes like that to be absolutely literal. For example, in your sign, is the "S" the only capital? This is one case I would re-write and include clarifying information.
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Old 11-27-2012, 02:50 PM
Musicat Musicat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jragon View Post
Huh, I was not aware that you could use [sic] for anything other than a mistake in the original source. I guess sometimes breaking rules is cleaner than following them, though.
From the Gregg manual (a great desktop companion, in spiral binding so it lies flat), Par 283:
Quote:
When the original wording contains a misspelling, a grammatical error, or a confusing expression of thought, insert the term sic (meaning "so" or "this is the way it was") in [square] brackets to indicate that the error existed in the original material.

As he wrote in his letter, "I would sooner go to jail then [sic] have to pay your bill."

Note: Italicize the word sic when it is used this way...
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Old 11-27-2012, 02:51 PM
pulykamell pulykamell is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Musicat View Post
From the Gregg manual (a great desktop companion, in spiral binding so it lies flat), Par 283:
Isn't that just confirming Jragon's thoughts about "[sic]"?
  #15  
Old 11-27-2012, 02:58 PM
Musicat Musicat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pulykamell View Post
Isn't that just confirming Jragon's thoughts about "[sic]"?
Yes, but he was confirming mine, and I wanted a reference so no one would take me as the ultimate authority.
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Old 11-27-2012, 04:22 PM
RealityChuck RealityChuck is online now
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It's a single sentence. Assume the quotes are each a single word:

The responses included both "Hello" and "Goodbye."

No comma or period is necessary before the "and."
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  #17  
Old 11-27-2012, 05:46 PM
Musicat Musicat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RealityChuck View Post
It's a single sentence. Assume the quotes are each a single word:

The responses included both "Hello" and "Goodbye."

No comma or period is necessary before the "and."
The Gregg Manual seems to agree with you, in par. 232:
Quote:
When quoting a series of words or phrases in the exact sequence in which they originally appeared, use quotation marks before and after the complete series. However, if the series of quoted words or phrases did not appear in this sequence in the original, use quotation marks around each word or phrase.

According to Selma, the latest issue of the magazine looked "fresh, crisp, and appealing." (Selma's actual words were, "I think the new issue looks especially fresh, crisp, and appealing."

BUT: Selma thinks the magazine looks "fresh" and "crisp."
(NOT: Selma thinks the magazine looks "fresh and crisp."
This would seem to contradict my reference to par. 247, in an earlier post. I can only explain that by noting that par 247 is illustrating quotes "with Periods and Commas," while par 232 is directly under the "with direct quotations" section. Maybe the authors never noticed the conflict as their attention was elsewhere.

So there may be some leeway here; a comma or not. But never a period in the middle of a sentence (unless you use [sic]).
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Old 11-27-2012, 06:31 PM
Exapno Mapcase Exapno Mapcase is offline
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Yes, the comma doesn't belong there. Chicago is clear that while a comma is normally used to introduce a quote, it is not used when the quote is a predicate nominative. 13th edition, 5.64

I was just surprised that I couldn't find a reference to multiple quoting. You'd think that it would be a common situation.
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Old 11-28-2012, 09:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Exapno Mapcase View Post
Yes, the comma doesn't belong there. Chicago is clear that while a comma is normally used to introduce a quote, it is not used when the quote is a predicate nominative. 13th edition, 5.64

I was just surprised that I couldn't find a reference to multiple quoting. You'd think that it would be a common situation.
It may not cover your specific situation, but does it not cover that quoted sentences do not end in a period unless they end the overarching sentence, and that they instead use a comma?

That's what I was taught, and although I wasn't taught the Chicago Manual of Style, what I was taught seems to almost always line up with it. In other words, I would write the following (italics used to set off the quote only):
The responses included both "I decided to vote at the last minute," and "I made my decision weeks before the election."
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Old 09-12-2017, 11:06 AM
Rob_B Rob_B is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pulykamell View Post
I've never been taught to use the period in a quotation encapsulated within another sentence.

For example, the rule here says:


I cannot think of a time I have ever seen a period used like that. Question marks and exclamation points, yes. But not a period.
Sorry to rake up an old thread, but you link is giving me: Not Found [CFN #0005].
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Old 09-12-2017, 11:23 AM
Rob_B Rob_B is offline
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Sorry for the typo. Don't we have an edit option?
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Old 09-12-2017, 11:26 AM
Rob_B Rob_B is offline
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And now I have the edit option!

But I don't see any option to insert a screenshot.
  #23  
Old 09-12-2017, 11:28 AM
Rob_B Rob_B is offline
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Let’s try another exercise:

Robin said, “My friend says that the responses included ‘I decided to vote at the last minute’ and ‘I made my decision weeks before the election.’”

Robin said, “My friend says that the responses included ‘I decided to vote at the last minute,’ ‘I made my decision weeks before the election,’ and ‘I didn’t vote, did you?’”

In the second example, the comma is required for the list.
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Old 09-12-2017, 11:31 AM
Chronos Chronos is offline
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Of course, logical style is to use a period to end all three sentences, the two quoted sentences and the one containing them, and to put inside the quote marks exactly what is being quoted. Thus:

The responses included both "I decided to vote at the last minute." and "I made my decision weeks before the election.".

At the end there, the period inside the quote mark is because what was quoted was a sentence, and thus the period is part of the quote. And the period outside of the quote mark is to end the sentence which started with "The responses included...", and is necessary because the other periods ended quoted sentences, not the outer sentence.
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Old 09-12-2017, 12:20 PM
Rob_B Rob_B is offline
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Okay, thank you, Chronos.
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Old 09-12-2017, 01:40 PM
engineer_comp_geek engineer_comp_geek is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob_B View Post
And now I have the edit option!

But I don't see any option to insert a screenshot.
Welcome to the SDMB, Rob_B.

You can only edit your posts for 5 minutes. After that, the posts are no longer editable.

We do not allow images (screenshots or otherwise) to be posted here. You can put the image on any sort of image hosting site (photobucket, imagur, etc) and link to it if you'd like.

If you have any further questions about how the message board itself works, feel free to ask in our About This Message Board forum.

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Old 09-12-2017, 03:14 PM
Chronos Chronos is offline
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Quote:
We do not allow images (screenshots or otherwise) to be posted here. You can put the image on any sort of image hosting site (photobucket, imagur, etc) and link to it if you'd like.
Correction: That should say "imgur, etc". There's no 'a' in "imgur", and there's no photo hosting in Photobucket.
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  #28  
Old 09-12-2017, 09:21 PM
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I think you need to get rid of the period at the end of the first quote. It should go comma, end quotation mark, and, beginning quotation mark.
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Old 09-12-2017, 09:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chronos View Post
Of course, logical style is to use a period to end all three sentences, the two quoted sentences and the one containing them, and to put inside the quote marks exactly what is being quoted. Thus:

The responses included both "I decided to vote at the last minute." and "I made my decision weeks before the election.".

At the end there, the period inside the quote mark is because what was quoted was a sentence, and thus the period is part of the quote. And the period outside of the quote mark is to end the sentence which started with "The responses included...", and is necessary because the other periods ended quoted sentences, not the outer sentence.
It may be "logical," but it doesn't agree with any style guides I am aware of. Thus it will be seen as a mistake.

The rules of language aren't governed by logic.

Last edited by BigT; 09-12-2017 at 09:31 PM.
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Old 09-12-2017, 10:46 PM
pulykamell pulykamell is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chronos View Post
Of course, logical style is to use a period to end all three sentences, the two quoted sentences and the one containing them, and to put inside the quote marks exactly what is being quoted. Thus:

The responses included both "I decided to vote at the last minute." and "I made my decision weeks before the election.".
I have never ever seen a sentence punctuated like that. While that may be "logical" (and I do see the logic behind it), I don't know of any single style guide that would suggest to render the sentence that way. That's just an unholy mess of punctuation. Unless you're just trying to make the point that this is the "logical" style, but not any style widely accepted in the English language. And American style quotes never put the period outside the quotation marks. (Or at least I am trying my hardest to think of an exception to the rule, but I can't.)

Last edited by pulykamell; 09-12-2017 at 10:49 PM.
  #31  
Old 09-13-2017, 12:32 PM
Exapno Mapcase Exapno Mapcase is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pulykamell View Post
I have never ever seen a sentence punctuated like that. While that may be "logical" (and I do see the logic behind it), I don't know of any single style guide that would suggest to render the sentence that way.
Why would we need style guides if logic had anything to do with it? Moreso, why would we have multiple, contradicting style guides if logic were a factor?

Quote:
And American style quotes never put the period outside the quotation marks. (Or at least I am trying my hardest to think of an exception to the rule, but I can't.)
British style puts the quotation marks on the inside. I like the way that looks and I've been sneaking that style into my posts here. No one has yet said anything. Let's make it spread.
  #32  
Old 09-13-2017, 12:38 PM
pulykamell pulykamell is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Exapno Mapcase View Post
Why would we need style guides if logic had anything to do with it? Moreso, why would we have multiple, contradicting style guides if logic were a factor?



British style puts the quotation marks on the inside. I like the way that looks and I've been sneaking that style into my posts here. No one has yet said anything. Let's make it spread.
Yes, we agree on both points (though I can't break out of the habit of putting periods and commas on the inside of quotes, as much as I don't like it most of the time.)

Last edited by pulykamell; 09-13-2017 at 12:39 PM.
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