I'm interested in learning how to cook Thai food. Thoughts, experiences, advice?

[Skald the Rhymer]

Some thread titles are sufficiently clear that naught but a wisecrack is needed in the OP.

Well, that and a link to a recipe, per the new RhymerRule. I'm thinking Basque lamb stew, also known as what I'm planning to make for dinner next Sunday night, though of course I may opt for something Thai if I master it over the weekend.

[kayaker]

We now have a dwarf kaffir lime tree. My gf has been doing some Thai cooking, but had trouble finding kaffir lime leaves. Through the wonders of the internet, UPS, and Visa, we now have more than we need.

[silenus]

Several friends of mine took courses in Thai cooking offered through a local Buddhist temple. They loved the experience and have folded Thai ingredients into their regular cooking repertoire.
I'd check for local availability of spices and such, but if they are to be had locally and cheaply, go for it. It is without a doubt one of my favorite "foreign" cuisines.

[andrewbub]

Just remember the fish sauce.

If you have an asian market nearby, you should be able to get galangal (looks like ginger). They also sell kaffir lime leaves in the freezer section.

If you're feeling extra ambitious, you can make your own curry paste at home, but a lot of the store-bought pastes are great.

[melondeca]

I'm no expert in Thai cooking, but it has been my experience that curry paste gets much hotter as you go along. A nice pan of chicken curry leftovers can go from sweat-inducing to licking-the-surface-of-the-sun in two days.

[the_diego]

A lot of their curry dishes (as served in restaurants mind you) is crap (not literal) disguised with cococnut milk and curry. Observe basics in souteeing and simmering meat before applying the "make-up."

[pancakes3]

I have a problem with the noodles. All noodles. The rice noodles sticking to the pan, and the wide drunken noodles being cooked to al dente.

[andrewbub]

Originally Posted by pancakes3

I have a problem with the noodles. All noodles. The rice noodles sticking to the pan, and the wide drunken noodles being cooked to al dente.

pre-cooking your noodles is key.

for the rice noodles, make sure you have plenty of lube in the pan, and add them at the last minute, just to heat them through and coat in sauce.

with the drunken noodles, cook them to al dente, and then do the same thing i mentioned above.

[Soul Brother Number Two]

My fave cookbook is True Thai by Victor Sodsook. Superb renditions of all your faves plus some special dishes.

My take is that Thai is ingredient-driven, meaning that if you have the ingredients (Thai basil, lemongrass, kaffir lime leaves, galangal, fish sauce et al) the rest is dead easy, unlike Chinese, which can be much more focused on technique as well as ingredients. If you don't have the right ingredients, don't try, subsitutions do not work.

The iconic book is Thai Food by David Thompson. PS if you make the curry paste yourself the awesomeness factor becomes expotential.


It's been my experience that following the recipes creates Thai food that is SO MUCH BETTER than restaurant food. You and yer pals will be amazed I tell you.

I can't spell today and can't be arsed to fix it. Sorry folks.

[Chronos]

My take is that Thai is ingredient-driven, meaning that if you have the ingredients (Thai basil, lemongrass, kaffir lime leaves, galangal, fish sauce et al) the rest is dead easy,
...

It's been my experience that following the recipes creates Thai food that is SO MUCH BETTER than restaurant food. You and yer pals will be amazed I tell you.

Does this imply that most restaurants don't use the authentic ingredients?

[zoid]

Originally Posted by Chronos

Does this imply that most restaurants don't use the authentic ingredients?

In my experience Thai food is significantly dumbed down in most restaurants. Go with someone from Thailand and you experience will be vastly different than walking in as a white guy.

[Soul Brother Number Two]

What I think, Chronos, is that concentrating on a couple of dishes instead of cooking for 100 plus people seems to make a big difference when making Thai food. Haven't experienced this kind of disparity in other cuisines... Chinese can sometimes be like that too, though. For me. Full disclosure: I cooked professionally for 20 years, so I do have chops.

[pulykamell]

This is the English language bible of Thai cooking. It's exhaustive, not dumbed down, and doesn't even get to the first recipe until a few hundred pages in. If you're really really into a definitive book on the subject, that's the one.

[kayaker]

Originally Posted by Soul Brother Number Two

The iconic book is Thai Food by David Thompson. PS if you make the curry paste yourself the awesomeness factor becomes expotential.

Originally Posted by pulykamell

This is the English language bible of Thai cooking. It's exhaustive, not dumbed down, and doesn't even get to the first recipe until a few hundred pages in. If you're really really into a definitive book on the subject, that's the one.

Placed the order last night after Soul Brother's recommendation. Due to arrive Monday. Thanks!

[pulykamell]

Originally Posted by Soul Brother Number Two

My take is that Thai is ingredient-driven, meaning that if you have the ingredients (Thai basil, lemongrass, kaffir lime leaves, galangal, fish sauce et al) the rest is dead easy, unlike Chinese, which can be much more focused on technique as well as ingredients. If you don't have the right ingredients, don't try, subsitutions do not work.

I would say some substitutions or omissions are okay, as long as you have the bulk of the ingredients. It may not be 100% "authentic" Thai, but it'll still be good. Like I'm fine with leaving out kaffir lime leaves if I don't have them around, or I might substitute with a little bit of lime zest. It's not the same thing, but it's vaguely in the ballpark. Thai holy basil tastes quite different from Thai sweet basil, which is still different from Italian basil, but they all work fairly well. (My favorite Thai dish is holy basil chicken, but I almost always make it with Thai sweet basil or cinnamon basil. It is possible to find holy basil here, which has a bit of a camphor-like taste to it, but fairly difficult.) Ginger for galangal is also okay in my book. Once again, different flavor, same ballpark, but galangal is distinct and more "peppery," for lack of better description. Luckily, galangal is not that difficult to find here. Coriander/cilantro root are difficult to find, so I substitute stems. And so on.

[ShibbOleth]

Originally Posted by andrewbub

pre-cooking your noodles is key.

for the rice noodles, make sure you have plenty of lube in the pan, and add them at the last minute, just to heat them through and coat in sauce.

with the drunken noodles, cook them to al dente, and then do the same thing i mentioned above.

Drunken noodles should be made with fresh rice noodles, so there is no need to precook them. For rice stick noodles, it usually sufficient to soak them in cold water for sometime before using. Also make sure you're using enough oil. At least this is how my Thai wife and MIL do these, ymmv. Agree on the just toss them in at the end part.

[ShibbOleth]

Originally Posted by zoid

In my experience Thai food is significantly dumbed down in most restaurants. Go with someone from Thailand and you experience will be vastly different than walking in as a white guy.

We have a local friend who complained he couldn't get them to make the food spicy enough for him in the local restaurants. We suggested a couple of different places and my wife wrote him a "permission slip", in Thai, that said something like "this farang is okay, please make him food as spicy as any Thai person can eat". It seems kind of silly, but it actually worked. Now he's got a place that knows him near his house. IME Thais find it quite amusing when they meet a non-Thai who can handle the full on spice.

[Gray Ghost]

Originally Posted by pulykamell

This is the English language bible of Thai cooking. It's exhaustive, not dumbed down, and doesn't even get to the first recipe until a few hundred pages in. If you're really really into a definitive book on the subject, that's the one.

Originally Posted by kayaker

Placed the order last night after Soul Brother's recommendation. Due to arrive Monday. Thanks!

Originally Posted by ShibbOleth

We have a local friend who complained he couldn't get them to make the food spicy enough for him in the local restaurants. We suggested a couple of different places and my wife wrote him a "permission slip", in Thai, that said something like "this farang is okay, please make him food as spicy as any Thai person can eat". It seems kind of silly, but it actually worked. Now he's got a place that knows him near his house. IME Thais find it quite amusing when they meet a non-Thai who can handle the full on spice.

I have Thompson's book, and it is gorgeous and deep. But, it is a little daunting for the newcomer to Thai cooking---again, as pulykamell and others have noted, the recipes don't start until well into the book. It's sat, mostly unread, on my shelf. Probably time for me to dig it back out.

I don't have a 'Thai for Dummies' recommendation though. For me, I just adapted techniques I knew from Indian cooking, only using Thai ingredients. Still trying to figure out just how to use shrimp paste, for example. And I'll keep a look out for Thai holy basil. God knows we've enough Asian supermarkets here, that one of them should have it in their daunting produce sections. I have to tried to make my own curry pastes, with vastly differing results. The only constant was that I found it to be quite a bit of work. I do recommend the pre-made pastes from Mae Ploy though. The Panang curry is delicious, as is the Red. They keep awhile, not that they last that long here.

On the Thai restaurants differ between native Thais and Americans, I found the food at places like Lotus of Siam to taste much different than your run of the mill Thai restaurant. Not necessarily that much better, for my palate, just different. Though their chicken coconut soup [Edit: The shrimp coconut soup. Though I'm sure the chicken is great too.] is the finest rendition of this dish that I've ever had. Kind of like the difference between greasy spoon Cantonese (E.g., any place that still advertises 'Chop Suey',) and authentic Szechuan.

As for the spicy, I can't do it, but my pick for the Houston area's best Thai restaurant lists the available spiciness at the top of their menu, reserving the hottest range for "Thai Hot", with all sorts of warnings that you'll still be responsible for the charge if you order it and don't eat it. I can barely get past "Warm", but I'm a wimp. FWIW, the food at Lotus wasn't aggressively spiced at all, at least as far as the heat goes.

[pulykamell]

Originally Posted by Gray Ghost

I have Thompson's book, and it is gorgeous and deep. But, it is a little daunting for the newcomer to Thai cooking

Yep, it's not exactly "Thai in Ten Easy Pieces" or anything like that. It's an advanced cookbook, and perfect for the food geek types who want a deep understanding of the food. It's the only Thai cookbook I have, but I'm fairly experienced in the kitchen, so I wanted something exhaustive in its approach.

That said, it really isn't difficult to cook from. It's not written as a doctoral dissertation, but it does require some scouting for ingredients (and Thompson does mention substitutions where applicable.)

[Gray Ghost]

Originally Posted by pulykamell

..It's an advanced cookbook, and perfect for the food geek types who want a deep understanding of the food. It's the only Thai cookbook I have, but I'm fairly experienced in the kitchen, so I wanted something exhaustive in its approach.

That said, it really isn't difficult to cook from. It's not written as a doctoral dissertation, but it does require some scouting for ingredients (and Thompson does mention substitutions where applicable.)

I remember getting it around when it first came out. (And going, "It costs how much?! ($75, IIRC.) Well, O.K.?") After all, we liked Thai food a lot, we thought we were acquainted with cooking, and this was supposed to be the gold standard Thai cookbook: time to save money by cooking more and not ordering out as much, right? Then we tried one or two of the recipes, (when I eventually found some). Those meals were bollixed up, with, importantly, me having no idea how I'd bollixed them up, and shortly thereafter I put the book back on the shelf. Kind of the same thing that happened when I bought Charlie Trotter's eponymous cookbook, but there, I had an idea that sort of thing was going to happen. Now that I know a bit more about cooking---though nowhere near as much as pros and former pros, like yourself--- and have played around with Thai cooking and Indian curries, I think I could understand more of the holistic concepts Thompson tries to convey in the book. It certainly seemed like the exhaustive text you said you were looking for.

Cooks Illustrated doesn't do an offshoot cookbook for Thai food, do they? I think that's more of what I was looking for, and what we originally thought "Thai Food" was going to be.

[pulykamell]

Originally Posted by Gray Ghost

Then we tried one or two of the recipes, (when I eventually found some). Those meals were bollixed up, with, importantly, me having no idea how I'd bollixed them up, and shortly thereafter I put the book back on the shelf.

I wonder if you got screwed up with the coconut milk and cream technique. You do kind of have to read the explanatory notes for that. I tend to stay away from coconut-based dishes (not because of that, but because they're extremely caloric.) One thing you will notice about his recipes is that they are a lot less meat-heavy than what you might be used to at American Thai restaurants.

[Skald the Rhymer]

Thanks to everyone who responded. I wanted to drop in because I didn't have time to go online yesterday (sick baby) and I didn't want y'all to think I was ignoring you.

[Soul Brother Number Two]

True Thai is a very accessible book written by a chef who loves and understands Thai food. I couldn't recommend it more highly. Way easier/less daunting than Thompson's book. The food tastes great and wonderfully authentic. I cook chicken and basil twice a month. It takes 20 minutes with prep to get it on the table.

I do live in NorCal where the ingredients are readily available.

[Shalmanese]

Originally Posted by Gray Ghost

Cooks Illustrated doesn't do an offshoot cookbook for Thai food, do they? I think that's more of what I was looking for, and what we originally thought "Thai Food" was going to be.

Cooks Illustrated tends to be great when it comes to regional, American cuisine but when they attempt ethnic cuisines, some of the decisions they make can be rather questionable.

[pulykamell]

Originally Posted by Shalmanese

Cooks Illustrated tends to be great when it comes to regional, American cuisine but when they attempt ethnic cuisines, some of the decisions they make can be rather questionable.

Glad to know I'm not the only one with this opinion of CI and ATK.

[Labrador Deceiver]

Oh good god, no. You're not the only one by a long shot.

[pulykamell]

Originally Posted by Labrador Deceiver

Oh good god, no. You're not the only one by a long shot.

OK. Good. I read CI (although my gift subscription just ran out) and watch ATK every once in awhile. I'm not a huge proponent of their recipes, but I glean a lot of interesting things from their techniques: from the "reverse sear" in making steaks/roasts to adding gelatin to burgers and loaves made from low-fat meats (like chicken breast/turkey) to salting beans during the soak and things like that. That's good stuff. But their recipes suffer, in my opinion, from the "design by committee" approach. And that's most evident in their ethnic recipes. I just remember reading through a recipe for Hungarian goulash that had me (inwardly) screaming at the page for getting everything about it wrong. (That said, I did read a recipe from CI a few years later that actually was well-researched and got it right. Even though they deviated from the traditional approach here and there, they mentioned what they were doing and why. Which I'm cool with.)

[ShibbOleth]

Originally Posted by pulykamell

I wonder if you got screwed up with the coconut milk and cream technique. You do kind of have to read the explanatory notes for that. I tend to stay away from coconut-based dishes (not because of that, but because they're extremely caloric.) One thing you will notice about his recipes is that they are a lot less meat-heavy than what you might be used to at American Thai restaurants.

I find that last line interesting. In my experience, Thai restaurants in America seem to be less meat heavy than Thai food in Thailand. Maybe because meat costs more than vegetables, or maybe because in Thailand it's more normal to order and share several dishes. Could just be my memory slipping. IIRC in Thailand they'll bring side veggies and accompaniments, like long beans, cabbage and cucumbers to chew on, but most of the dishes when they're meat dishes tend to be mostly meat. This might be less so in high end restaurants.

[pulykamell]

Interesting. His curry dishes use a lot less meat than I find typically used in American restaurants. I don't feel like digging up his book to find it, but I did find this thread commenting on his cookbook that says:

* Beef panaeng, page 316 - Good, but to my taste, it was not quite enough meat for the amount of curry. I hear that traditionally, Thai curries have a lot less meat than we're used to being served in the West.

There's at least one other poster in that thread commenting on the meat-to-curry ratio. His (coconut-based) curries are positively swimming in coconut sauce compared with what I've experience at the average US restaurant.

[pulykamell]

Actually, I did dig up the book. I'm still looking for his explanatory note on how much meat is used, but, for example, the referenced beef panang curry has this list of ingredients:

200 g (6 oz) beef brisket or cheek
4 cups coconut milk
3 cups coconut cream (which you first "crack" to get the oil to separate from the solids, kind of like clarifying butter. This may not be possible with many brands of coconut cream.)
etc

Green curry of chicken starts with:

2 cups coconut cream (same note as above)
150 g (5 oz) skinless chicken thigh fillets
2 tablespoons fish sauce
2 cups coconut milk
etc...

[ShibbOleth]

Originally Posted by pulykamell

Interesting. His curry dishes use a lot less meat than I find typically used in American restaurants. I don't feel like digging up his book to find it, but I did find this thread commenting on his cookbook that says:



There's at least one other poster in that thread commenting on the meat-to-curry ratio. His (coconut-based) curries are positively swimming in coconut sauce compared with what I've experience at the average US restaurant.

To be clear, I'm not knocking the less meat thing; I actually like to have more veggies in my food. I'll have to check out that cookbook and see how it compares to my experience. It sounds interesting enough, although I'd probably prefer to find a library copy or something.

We don't really have a lot of Thai cookbooks, but the one I can find is pretty nice, it's called Practical Thai Cooking by Puangkram C. Schmitz and Michael J. Worman.

[elbows]

I love and cook Thai food regularly, having been to Thailand several times, and even got a few lessons from the locals!

For me, the only book to consider is "Hot, Sour, Salty, Sweet" by Jeffrey Alford and Naomi Duguid. It won cookbook of the year the year it was published and will give you a good grounding in many Asian cuisines.

Because, in reality, it's silly to try and strictly separate Thai from Cambodian from Vietnamese from Indonesian - way too much bleeding, of one into the other, for any such thing to be possible, in my opinion.

[pulykamell]

Originally Posted by ShibbOleth

To be clear, I'm not knocking the less meat thing; I actually like to have more veggies in my food. I'll have to check out that cookbook and see how it compares to my experience. It sounds interesting enough, although I'd probably prefer to find a library copy or something.

To clarify more on my part, it's not like these curries have a lot of vegetables, either. The panang curry recipe, for example, has none. The green curry chicken with baby corn just has 5 oz thigh and 6-10 baby corn. The recipes are just a lot saucier and less meaty than what I'm used to.

[pulykamell]

Originally Posted by elbows

Because, in reality, it's silly to try and strictly separate Thai from Cambodian from Vietnamese from Indonesian - way too much bleeding, of one into the other, for any such thing to be possible, in my opinion.

Nah, I think Vietnamese and Cambodian are distinct enough from Thai and Indonesian. Otherwise, you might as well lop Rissisn, German, Polish, Hungarian, etc. all together, as there's a plenty of bleed there--I'd argue much more similarity.

[Siam Sam]

I find Thai food to be completely different from Indonesian and somewhat different from Cambodian. Certainly the northern and southern Thai cuisines differ markedly from Cambodian. (No dog, for one thing.)

[kayaker]

Originally Posted by Siam Sam

I find Thai food to be completely different from Indonesian and somewhat different from Cambodian. Certainly the northern and southern Thai cuisines differ markedly from Cambodian. (No dog, for one thing.)

A biologist friend of mine studied a species of primate in Vietnam years ago. He was guest of honor at a village celebration and found out halfway through his meal that he was eating dog. He was extremely freaked out, but managed to not embarrass himself

[Siam Sam]

Originally Posted by kayaker

A biologist friend of mine studied a species of primate in Vietnam years ago. He was guest of honor at a village celebration and found out halfway through his meal that he was eating dog. He was extremely freaked out, but managed to not embarrass himself

I hope he was thankful he wasn't eating the primate.

[kayaker]

Originally Posted by Siam Sam

I hope he was thankful he wasn't eating the primate.

Heh. He woulda rather eaten monkey than dog. I got him to tell the dog story last time I ran into him and he was getting sick even after 30 years.

Thompson's book arrived UPS today.

[FrigidLizard]

My one little trick that may be helpful is to run galangal and lemongrass over a microplane grater rather than chopping it or mashing it in a pestle. I've been much more excited about making Thai curries ever since I learned it.

[Oslo Ostragoth]

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