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  #1  
Old 12-04-2012, 12:45 PM
Skald the Rhymer Skald the Rhymer is offline
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What fictional characters do judge most (and least) trustworthy?

In the current Walking Dead thread, Human Action writes:

Quote:
Originally Posted by what did I just say?!?!?!? View Post
Michonne is seriously committed to the idea that Andrea should trust her on principle and without evidence.
This thread is not about The Walking Dead in general, or Michonne's mute psychopathy, or how hot Laurie Holden is. Those are all worthy topics, particularly, the last, but if you want to talk about them you should go to the linked thread, unless you're posting cheesecake of Laurie Holden of course, because, damn, that girl has some nice wheels. No, this thread is about the trustworthiness of fictional characters. The question is this:

You're in a given fictional universe of the action/adventure type, and you come across Heroic Character X apparently about to assault or murder someone you had heretofore trusted. Absent evidence, what characters are you going to trust on principle and immediately, and thus be willing to await an explanation given at that character's convenience? Contrariwise, who are you most likely to be suspicious of and want an immediate explanation from?

In the Immediately Trust category, I'm going to nominate Jethro Gibbs, from NCIS. If, while in the NCISverse, I turn a corner and see Gibbs holding a gun on Barack Obama, I'm going to think, "Holy crap, Barry really was the Manchurian candidate!"

In the Probably Suspicious, I'll nominate Xena. If I turn a corner and see Xena's latest reincarnation about to disembowel the president, I'm likely to think, "Damn it, woman, you backslid again? (I'm not going to try to stop her, though, as I want to live.)

But that's just me. Anybody else

Incidentally, the spirit of the thread calls for us to restrict ourselves to heroic characters. If you turn a corner and see the Joker about to shoot someone you'll surely assume it's an unjustified murder unless the victim is, I dunno, the Joker or somebody. That said, I expect this caveat to be ignored by post 10, so I'm only including it so I don't have to rant later.

Last edited by Skald the Rhymer; 12-04-2012 at 12:49 PM..
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  #2  
Old 12-04-2012, 12:54 PM
phouka phouka is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skald the Rhymer View Post
In the current Walking Dead thread, Human Action writes:
In the Immediately Trust category, I'm going to nominate Jethro Gibbs, from NCIS. If, while in the NCISverse, I turn a corner and see Gibbs holding a gun on Barack Obama, I'm going to think, "Holy crap, Barry really was the Manchurian candidate!"
Dammit, Skald, get the frak out of my head. I would totally have said this if I had thought of it first.

As for untrustworthy, it's going to be Gregory House, MD. I wouldn't trust that man with the combination to my old high school locker. He can practice medicine on me if my life's in danger, but I want someone with a Taser standing right behind him.
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  #3  
Old 12-04-2012, 01:02 PM
Skald the Rhymer Skald the Rhymer is offline
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Originally Posted by phouka View Post
Dammit, Skald, get the frak out of my head.
As I have told you before, I am not in your head. I have quasi-telepathic nanobots in your head transmitting certain pieces of information on a regular schedule. And they're there for RhymerInc profit because of contract you signed at gunpoint for your own good.
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  #4  
Old 12-04-2012, 01:13 PM
bouv bouv is offline
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In the completely untrustworthy category, I'd say Mr.Morden from Babylon 5. Even before he says a single word, he just oozes sleaze. And then once the,
"What do you want?"-s start pouring out, I wouldn't even bother saying "nothing" before leaving for fear that he'd fulfill that request and make the universe cease to exist.
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  #5  
Old 12-04-2012, 01:13 PM
Lasciel Lasciel is offline
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Immediate Trust for Factual Situations: Sherlock Holmes from the BBC re-boot. Brains almost totally divorced from distortions caused by empathy or emotion. Not anyone I'd want for a friend, but if there's facts, I'm going with whatever he says.

Immediate Trust just because: Michael Carpenter from the Dresden Files novels. I'm not a Christian, but I want to be on that man's team.


Immediate Distrust just because: Mal from Firefly. Poor dude is constantly picking fights cause he's peeved, and just generally getting shit wrong. Good heart, but not wrapped up too tight. He'd be able to convince me he's right if necessary, but my immediate response is "Oh Lord, what's he gotten himself into this time."
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  #6  
Old 12-04-2012, 01:13 PM
pravnik pravnik is offline
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Immediately trust Sam Vines or Carrot Ironfoundersson.
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  #7  
Old 12-04-2012, 01:20 PM
Elmer J. Fudd Elmer J. Fudd is offline
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Immediately Trust: Horton
Probably Suspicious: The Cat in the Hat
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  #8  
Old 12-04-2012, 01:23 PM
Scumpup Scumpup is offline
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Immediately trust: Batman
Probably suspicious: Roland of Gilead
Immediately distrust: Mason Verger
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  #9  
Old 12-04-2012, 01:27 PM
Skald the Rhymer Skald the Rhymer is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lasciel View Post
Immediate Distrust just because: Mal from Firefly. Poor dude is constantly picking fights cause he's peeved, and just generally getting shit wrong. Good heart, but not wrapped up too tight. He'd be able to convince me he's right if necessary, but my immediate response is "Oh Lord, what's he gotten himself into this time."

I wouldn't automatically distrust Mal, and I'd be inclined to believe him once he explained himself, but I'd need him to do just that. Unless he were pointing a gun at Jane or Simon, or Kaylee, that is. In the first case, J'd assume Mal was in the right unless I had enormous evidence otherwise; in the second I'd assume Simon had started something he couldn't finish but I might try to talk Mal down; and in the third I'd say "What the fuck is wrong with you, Cap'n? Kaylee is not to be harmed for any reason! Now put down the gun before I shoot you in the back!"

(I would not say any of that if I were in Mal's eyeline for obvious reasons.)

Zoe, on the other hand: immediate trust, nearly but not quite at the Gibbs level.
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Originally Posted by Scumpup View Post
Immediately trust: Batman
Probably suspicious: Roland of Gilead
Immediately distrust: Mason Verger
I'm with you on the latter two, but Batman? When was the last time that he was both entirely stable and not an asshole?

For comic book characters: Wonder Woman, Captain America, Thor, and Storm all get the default benefit of the doubt.

Last edited by Skald the Rhymer; 12-04-2012 at 01:28 PM..
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  #10  
Old 12-04-2012, 01:34 PM
well he's back well he's back is offline
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Trust - Sam from LOTR
Distrust - Gollum
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  #11  
Old 12-04-2012, 01:35 PM
Scumpup Scumpup is offline
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Originally Posted by Skald the Rhymer View Post

I'm with you on the latter two, but Batman? When was the last time that he was both entirely stable and not an asshole?
Especially in light of Crazy Steve Batman in All Star Batman and Robin, your point is not without merit. Keep in mind though that, other than the odd Elseworlds, I'm not a regular reader. My mental picture of Batman is how he was portrayed in the 70's and early 80's as the writers made a deliberate effort to leave 60's camp Batman behind, but before The Dark Knight Returns was published and Crazy Steve was conceived. I'm also strongly influenced by how he was portrayed in BTAS. That Batman was a good egg. For a character with as many different versions as Batsy has, I guess I should have specified which Batman I'd trust.
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  #12  
Old 12-04-2012, 01:41 PM
Skald the Rhymer Skald the Rhymer is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by well he's back View Post
Trust - Sam from LOTR
Distrust - Gollum
Gollum's not a hero. But then, I did predict people would ignore that part of the OP.

I'm not sure about Sam. I can think of at least one major incident when Sam's instincts were wrong.

I'd trust (the book versions of) Gandalf, Aragorn, Faramir, Elrond, and probably Merry out of hand; whoever they were holding the sword on has just been revealed as a servant of Morgoth, and I'm just late to the party. Legolas and Gimli may have lost their tempers at an insult to Galadriel. Pippin may well be mistaken; Eowyn may be trying to commit suicide-by-proxy; Boromir and Frodo may be ring-influenced, depending on the point in the story.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scumpup View Post
Especially in light of Crazy Steve Batman in All Star Batman and Robin, your point is not without merit. Keep in mind though that, other than the odd Elseworlds, I'm not a regular reader. My mental picture of Batman is how he was portrayed in the 70's and early 80's as the writers made a deliberate effort to leave 60's camp Batman behind, but before The Dark Knight Returns was published and Crazy Steve was conceived. I'm also strongly influenced by how he was portrayed in BTAS. That Batman was a good egg. For a character with as many different versions as Batsy has, I guess I should have specified which Batman I'd trust.
Oh, I'm sure I've made worse mistakes.

Ignoring the Adam West version (too different from any other to be reconciled), my experience of Batman begins with the Englebert/Aparo version in the 70s: specifically the Joker fish story. That Batman isn't an asshole, but you can push him too far. Even then it was clear that his no-killing rule isn't an ethical stance like Superman's; it's because he knows that once he starts, he's not gonna stop till the Justice League puts him down.

Last edited by Skald the Rhymer; 12-04-2012 at 01:43 PM..
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  #13  
Old 12-04-2012, 03:17 PM
G0sp3l G0sp3l is offline
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Originally Posted by Skald the Rhymer View Post
[Snip]

In the Immediately Trust category, I'm going to nominate Jethro Gibbs, from NCIS. If, while in the NCISverse, I turn a corner and see Gibbs holding a gun on Barack Obama, I'm going to think, "Holy crap, Barry really was the Manchurian candidate!"[/Snip]
but what if Jethro is about to break Natalie Portman's clavicles? Then what?

Immediately Trust -- Arya Stark - Possible insane, but she's never been wrong. And only one murder of pure convenience that I can recall.

Immediately Suspicious -- Daenerys Targaryen - Much to hormonal. Easily deceived and/or manipulated.

Immediately Distrust -- Sansa Stark - A starry-eyed fool. She is definitely someone's catspaw. Probably Littlefinger's.

Last edited by G0sp3l; 12-04-2012 at 03:18 PM.. Reason: spellin
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  #14  
Old 12-04-2012, 03:22 PM
Scumpup Scumpup is offline
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I ignored the part that all three choices are supposed to be heroes. So let me ammend my list to replace Mason Verger with Rick Deckard as one I would immediately distrust.
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  #15  
Old 12-04-2012, 03:25 PM
Skald the Rhymer Skald the Rhymer is offline
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Originally Posted by G0sp3l View Post
but what if Jethro is about to break Natalie Portman's clavicles? Then what?
I'm not sure whether to be mildly flattered or mildly dismayed by the attention this shows to my posting history. Just to be safe I'm sending someone over to rummage through your drawers, install key loggers on all your computers, et cetera.

With the exception of pre-op transexuals who have murdered an NCIS agent, Gibbs is unlikely to do violence to a woman. I think Portman would be very hard for him. I don't know exactly how old she is but I would guess early 30s, and having recently done the math I believe he is in his mid-fifties. (Enlisted the Marines in '76, presumably anyone from 17-19). He's going to see an attractive woman of her age and think "Kelly," and have a hard time initiating any conflict. If he's managed to do so, it means that he's just found out she killed Abby or that she's a vampire or something.
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  #16  
Old 12-04-2012, 03:53 PM
TV time TV time is offline
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Is Bill O'Reilly a fictional character?
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  #17  
Old 12-04-2012, 04:39 PM
Oakminster Oakminster is offline
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Immediately trust: Captain America. He's pretty much the poster boy for "Lawful Good" alignment.

Immediately distrust: Gaius Baltar and Tom Zarek.
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  #18  
Old 12-04-2012, 04:47 PM
Malthus Malthus is offline
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Immediately trust: Captain Horatio Hornblower.

Suspicious of: Richard Sharpe.

Immediately distrust: Harry Paget Flashman.
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  #19  
Old 12-04-2012, 04:51 PM
Rollo Tomasi Rollo Tomasi is offline
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Immediate trust: Atticus Finch. The only drawback there is that he's so completely, morally upright that he might not be as helpful in situations that call for a certain . . . flexibilty.

Immediate distrust: Iago, 'cause obviously.
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  #20  
Old 12-04-2012, 04:52 PM
G0sp3l G0sp3l is offline
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Originally Posted by Skald the Rhymer View Post
I'm not sure whether to be mildly flattered or mildly dismayed by the attention this shows to my posting history. Just to be safe I'm sending someone over to rummage through your drawers, install key loggers on all your computers, et cetera.

With the exception of pre-op transexuals who have murdered an NCIS agent, Gibbs is unlikely to do violence to a woman. I think Portman would be very hard for him. I don't know exactly how old she is but I would guess early 30s, and having recently done the math I believe he is in his mid-fifties. (Enlisted the Marines in '76, presumably anyone from 17-19). He's going to see an attractive woman of her age and think "Kelly," and have a hard time initiating any conflict. If he's managed to do so, it means that he's just found out she killed Abby or that she's a vampire or something.
Seven bloody hells!! It looks stalker-ish typed out like that. I swear, clavicles and Portman and Skald just seems to have created some sort of weird mnemonic in my head. Now I'm going to have self-esteem issues. I need a drink.

and I run Windows so all of my computers already have keyloggers.

Trust - Daredevil
Suspicious - The Punisher
Don't Trust - Deadpool
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  #21  
Old 12-04-2012, 05:16 PM
Chronos Chronos is offline
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Quote:
Quoth pravnik:

Immediately trust Sam Vines or Carrot Ironfoundersson.
Ironically, Sam Vimes is on his own "immediate distrust" list.

Come to think of it, there are a lot of Discworld characters on my "immediate trust" list:
Lu-Tze
DEATH
Susan Sto-Helit
Nanny Ogg

Granny Weatherwax almost makes the list, but there's always that tiny little chance that she's gone cackling. Nanny Ogg, though, I'm pretty sure will never cackle.
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  #22  
Old 12-04-2012, 05:30 PM
G0sp3l G0sp3l is offline
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Rincewind is THE most trustworthy person on the Disc.
CMOT Dibbler and the Nac Mac Feegle probably tie for most suspect.
Vetinari, no way no how.
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  #23  
Old 12-04-2012, 05:39 PM
Reno Nevada Reno Nevada is offline
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Originally Posted by Lasciel View Post

Immediate Trust just because: Michael Carpenter from the Dresden Files novels. I'm not a Christian, but I want to be on that man's team.

I came in to say pretty much this. However, I will note that Scald's actual question is slightly different than the one that most people are answering, since it has an element of unlikely to be wrong in there was well.

So, I will add: Immediately Distrust: Morgan from the Dresden File novels. Because c'mon, the guy is always wrong about what is going on (I have not read the latest novel, btw).
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  #24  
Old 12-04-2012, 05:57 PM
Bosda Di'Chi of Tricor Bosda Di'Chi of Tricor is offline
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Trust:
Superman
Mr Spock


Mistrust:
Dracula
Hannibal Lechter
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  #25  
Old 12-04-2012, 09:01 PM
silenus silenus is offline
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Trust:
Sgt. Zim
Lady Sybil
Nanny Ogg
Anne when acting as a Fair Witness

Mega-Distrust:
Lazarus Long
Nobby Nobbs
Louis Wu

Last edited by silenus; 12-04-2012 at 09:03 PM..
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  #26  
Old 12-05-2012, 06:52 AM
Ranchoth Ranchoth is offline
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After thinking about it, I realized that there's one character I probably would mistrust in the scenario in the OP:

Superman.

Now, true enough, there's also enough variations in iterations of Superman throughout the various universes and continuities to make this problematic, even leaving out Elseworld Evil Supermen and whatnot, but hear me out.

Usually, when Superman is about to outright kill someone, it seems like it's at a point in a story where he's finally been pushed way too far, and isn't thinking straight, and this is about the point where some other character jumps in and tries to talk him out of it. Usually with a "Clark, please listen to me, this isn't you..." or a "No! If you kill him, you'll be just like him!" Now I'm hardly a deontologist, so I'm skeptical—at best—of statements like the latter, but I'm at least willing to consider in that situation, Superman might be under stress and not making the best decisions, or that there might be other, more pragmatic reasons to try and stop him. (Like too many witnesses, or it'd give him PTSD, etc.)

(This is also leaving aside the possibility that he's being mind controlled by a villain.)

But the other big thing—which to be fair also applies to a lot of other "never kill" superheroes, and not just Superman—is, well...Superman is a bigot.

At least towards artificial or exotic forms of life, like androids and AIs. He'll kill and mangle them without hesitation, or a second thought. As I hinted above, I'm not one for keeping dangerous supervillains alive purely for the sake of morality, but thoughtlessly slaughtering them just because their "race" makes it okay leaves a foul taste in my mouth.

So if I see Superman about to kill an intelligent robot? I have to question if he's doing it because the robot genuinely needs to die...or just because Superman has a cavalier definition of "person."
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  #27  
Old 12-05-2012, 07:09 AM
Gagundathar Gagundathar is offline
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Gee, and here I was going to say:
Trust - Superman, Captain America, Thor

Now, based upon your analysis and some research (does Google count?) I am amending my answer to:
Trust Implicitly- Captain America, Thor
Trust Provisionally - Superman
Neutral - Ironman
Distrust - Batman (the guy is insane)

ETA: I forgot my original entry!
Trust - Salvor Hardin

Last edited by Gagundathar; 12-05-2012 at 07:10 AM..
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  #28  
Old 12-05-2012, 10:23 AM
Wargamer Wargamer is offline
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From the HillBilly Section of the Multiverse.

Trust: Sheriff Andy Taylor
Jed Clampett
Arnold Ziffel
Lisa Douglas

Suspicious: Granny
Gomer Pyle
Ellie Mae Clampett
Oliver Douglas

Distrust: Barney Fife
Jethro Bodine
Ernest T. Bass
Wilbur Drysdale
Mr. Haney

I think that covers it.
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  #29  
Old 12-05-2012, 10:26 AM
Sir Not Appearing In This Film Sir Not Appearing In This Film is offline
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Immediate Trust:
Qui-Gon Jinn
Hermione Granger
Jon Snow
Spike Spiegel

Probably Suspicious:
Titus Pullo
Det. Sgt. Jack Vincennes
Lt. Col. Kilgore & Capt. Willard
Turin Turambar
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  #30  
Old 12-05-2012, 10:29 AM
Scumpup Scumpup is offline
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From videogames:

Immediately Trust: Harry Mason
Probably Suspicious: Auron
Immediately Distrust: The Courier
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  #31  
Old 12-05-2012, 11:19 AM
Tapiotar Tapiotar is offline
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Immediate, complete trust:
Leroy Jethro Gibbs of the infallible gut and strong sense of right and wrong
Nero Wolfe, Doyle's Sherlock Holmes, Father Brown, Peter Wimsey
I'd think about it a few minutes:
Patrick Jane. I'd assume that he was running a scam, and things were not as they seemed.
even though he seems amoral, he does perform gratuitous bits of healing, once he's through messing with people.
Bigby Wolf (of Fables), in Fabletown and beyond. He has the moral code of a noir hero, but is smarter and has evil deeds to repent.
Distrust:
Mal Reynolds and Castle. Both jump to false conclusions way too often.
Lancelot, King Arthur, Lazarus Long
Shawn and Gus. Lazy and frequently wrong, but doesn't care about making mistakes or wrecking lives.
I was going to talk about Gandalf, but I think he's a Wise Old Man, and not a Hero.
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  #32  
Old 12-05-2012, 11:42 AM
The Second Stone The Second Stone is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skald the Rhymer View Post
I'm not sure whether to be mildly flattered or mildly dismayed by the attention this shows to my posting history. Just to be safe I'm sending someone over to rummage through your drawers, install key loggers on all your computers, et cetera.

I would have thought you would send a swarm of bees, or your father disguised as a pollster.

Immediately trustworthy: Gandalf
Probably suspicious: Boromir
Immediately distrust: Saruman
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  #33  
Old 12-05-2012, 01:38 PM
kaylasdad99 kaylasdad99 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skald the Rhymer View Post
I
Incidentally, the spirit of the thread calls for us to restrict ourselves to heroic characters. If you turn a corner and see the Joker about to shoot someone you'll surely assume it's an unjustified murder unless the victim is, I dunno, the Joker or somebody. That said, I expect this caveat to be ignored by post 10, so I'm only including it so I don't have to rant later.
Quote:
Originally Posted by well he's back View Post
Trust - Sam from LOTR
Distrust - Gollum
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skald the Rhymer View Post
Gollum's not a hero. But then, I did predict people would ignore that part of the OP.
And you called it on post 10, too! Nice.
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  #34  
Old 12-05-2012, 03:58 PM
Skald the Rhymer Skald the Rhymer is offline
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Originally Posted by Rollo Tomasi View Post
Immediate trust: Atticus Finch. The only drawback there is that he's so completely, morally upright that he might not be as helpful in situations that call for a certain . . . flexibilty.
I thought of Atticus and began to list him even ahead of Gibbs. But I can't imagine him at the point of murder.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Bosda Di'Chi of Tricor View Post
Trust:
Superman
Mr Spock


Mistrust:
Dracula
Hannibal Lechter
The problem with Spock and Superman is that they're both so unlikely to engage in murderous violence (Spock by philosophy, Supes because he simply won't need to) that the times they have done so have been under someone else's control. If you're in their universes, you'd have to consider that.

The problem with Lecter, apart from his not being a hero (the default assumption is that he's in the wrong), is that there's no H in his name.
Quote:
Originally Posted by silenus View Post
Trust:

Anne when acting as a Fair Witness

Mega-Distrust:
Lazarus Long
While I agree with Ann, I disagree on Laz. He's not given to losing his temper or indiscriminate violence. If he's calm and about to kill someone, then that person has just passed up a dozen opportunities to resolve things peaceably (be retreating. If he's in a rage, then somebody has just done something violent to Maureen, Laz-Lor, Ishtar, or Hamadryad, or Tamara. Or harmed any child. Or tried to rape someone, or enslave Laz.

The point is that Lazarus doesn't start shit; he ends it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Not Appearing In This Film View Post
Immediate Trust:
Qui-Gon Jinn
Hermione Granger
Jon Snow
Spike Spiegel

Probably Suspicious:
Titus Pullo
Det. Sgt. Jack Vincennes
Lt. Col. Kilgore & Capt. Willard
Turin Turambar

Turin was wrong in strategy, not in particular engagements. Apart from poor Beleg, I can't think of an act of violence he committed when he was egregiously wrong.

Last edited by Skald the Rhymer; 12-05-2012 at 04:00 PM..
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  #35  
Old 12-05-2012, 04:04 PM
well he's back well he's back is offline
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KaylasDad, Skald - I'm so glad I made that mistake by not reading the OP closely enough & gave you two something to giggle over.
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  #36  
Old 12-05-2012, 04:19 PM
Silver Tyger Silver Tyger is offline
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Distrust: Spider Jerusalem from Transmetropolitan. Not because he'd be wrong, but because he's a jerk who likes to screw people over, and I'd expect him to shoot me, drug me, or somehow ruin my life.

Trust: The Shadow (specifically from the pulp novels) or any of his agents. He's a jerk to everyone, but he's always right. I want to hate him for being a jerk, but I can't.

Distrust: John Constantine (from the Hellblazer comics). Same deal as Spider, except he screws up more often. Actually if I was in the same place as Constantine, I'd probably just run. The best I could hope for from being around him is to die.

Trust: Sir Integral Hellsing from Hellsing. Or Seras. Or probably even Alucard, but only because I know who holds his leash. Also, I don't want to die.
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  #37  
Old 12-05-2012, 04:21 PM
Scumpup Scumpup is offline
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Originally Posted by Skald the Rhymer View Post
The problem with Lecter, apart from his not being a hero (the default assumption is that he's in the wrong), is that there's no H in his name.
I shall quibble with you here. Hannibal, as he was introduced to us in the novel Red Dragon was certainly evil. Monstrously and inexplicably so and, therefore, he does not qualify for this list.
Over the course of several more novels, and a couple of movies, Hannibal has morphed into an anti-hero. In the novel Hannibal, and the movie as well, I can't think of anybody he killed who wasn't a reprehensible piece of shit. Hannibal is basically a grand guignol re-imagining of the vigilante-as-hero that we've seen in about a million movies, tv shows, and shitty paperbacks.
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  #38  
Old 12-05-2012, 04:23 PM
Skald the Rhymer Skald the Rhymer is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silver Tyger View Post
Trust: The Shadow (specifically from the pulp novels) or any of his agents. He's a jerk to everyone, but he's always right. I want to hate him for being a jerk, but I can't.
Are you feeling well? You left out Tygra, Cheetara, Panthro, and Jagga in the "trust" category. Not to mention Lion-O & the Wilies in the "suspicious" category.
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  #39  
Old 12-05-2012, 04:27 PM
Skald the Rhymer Skald the Rhymer is offline
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Originally Posted by Scumpup View Post
I shall quibble with you here. Hannibal, as he was introduced to us in the novel Red Dragon was certainly evil. Monstrously and inexplicably so and, therefore, he does not qualify for this list.
Over the course of several more novels, and a couple of movies, Hannibal has morphed into an anti-hero. In the novel Hannibal, and the movie as well, I can't think of anybody he killed who wasn't a reprehensible piece of shit. Hannibal is basically a grand guignol re-imagining of the vigilante-as-hero that we've seen in about a million movies, tv shows, and shitty paperbacks.
I haven't read Hannibal Rising and shall throttle anyone who quotes from it, but in Hannibal-no-suffix he rapes and brainwashes Clarice Starling. Even apart from my love of book-Starling, which is deep and abiding, movie-Starling is either Jodie Foster or Julianne Moore, both as sacrosanct in their persons as Kaylee.

Hannibal Lecter needs killing. The most I'll concede is that a person in combat with Hannibal may ALSO need killing.

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Originally Posted by well he's back View Post
KaylasDad, Skald - I'm so glad I made that mistake by not reading the OP closely enough & gave you two something to giggle over.
Rhymers do not giggle. Never have, never shall, at any age. My daughter is less than a year old, and even shy, watching me pretend to be a Skald the Rhesus for her amusement, restricts herself to a wry smile, then returns to sharpening her daggers.

I wasn't complaining. While I think responses should LOGICALLY be restricted to heroes (as villains are by definition untrustworthy in such matters), I knew the qualification wouldn't be honored; allthreads mutate.

Last edited by Skald the Rhymer; 12-05-2012 at 04:30 PM..
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  #40  
Old 12-05-2012, 04:36 PM
Intergalactic Gladiator Intergalactic Gladiator is offline
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Trust: Sean Connery's James Bond
Suspicious of: Daniel Craig's James Bond
Distrust: Timothy Dalton's James Bond
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  #41  
Old 12-05-2012, 04:38 PM
Scumpup Scumpup is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skald the Rhymer View Post
I haven't read Hannibal Rising and shall throttle anyone who quotes from it, but in Hannibal-no-suffix he rapes and brainwashes Clarice Starling. Even apart from my love of book-Starling, which is deep and abiding, movie-Starling is either Jodie Foster or Julianne Moore, both as sacrosanct in their persons as Kaylee.

Hannibal Lecter needs killing. The most I'll concede is that a person in combat with Hannibal may ALSO need killing.
Clearly, you allowed your unclean desires for the character of Starling to interfere with really reading the novel both textually and sub-textually. As I've noted before, the theme of all the novels, except Rising which doesn't actually exist, is metamorphosis into a true self as midwifed by Dr. Lecter. The Tooth Fairy was trying to become The Red Dragon. Buffalo Bill was trying to become a woman. Lecter did not mind rape and brainwash Starling. He helped her through the difficult process of metamorphosis (which TF and BB had both failed) into her true self. You, sirrah, would have kept her as a well scrubbed, hustling rube with a little taste because that Starling appeals to you. Hannibal, heroically, aids her in putting all that behind her. Remember, other than her idealized memories of her father, her life up to the point of what you call "mind rape and brainwashing" had little in it that was good. She was not a happy woman until the end of the novel.
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  #42  
Old 12-05-2012, 04:42 PM
Skald the Rhymer Skald the Rhymer is offline
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Originally Posted by Scumpup View Post
Clearly, you allowed your unclean desires for the character of Starling to interfere with really reading the novel both textually and sub-textually.
Untrue. Jodie Foster is beautiful; she isn't hot. I appreciate her aesthetically.

Quote:
As I've noted before, the theme of all the novels, except Rising which doesn't actually exist, is metamorphosis into a true self as midwifed by Dr. Lecter. The Tooth Fairy was trying to become The Red Dragon. Buffalo Bill was trying to become a woman. Lecter did not mind rape and brainwash Starling. He helped her through the difficult process of metamorphosis (which TF and BB had both failed) into her true self. You, sirrah, would have kept her as a well scrubbed, hustling rube with a little taste because that Starling appeals to you. Hannibal, heroically, aids her in putting all that behind her. Remember, other than her idealized memories of her father, her life up to the point of what you call "mind rape and brainwashing" had little in it that was good. She was not a happy woman until the end of the novel.
As my great-grandmother said just before she shot the solipsist for whose murder she was hanged: "Yeah, you talk a good game, sonny, but I'm not buying it. It is NOT turtles all the way down."
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  #43  
Old 12-05-2012, 04:50 PM
Skald the Rhymer Skald the Rhymer is offline
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Oh, Starling was NOT a hustling little rube, Scumpup! She was a hero worthy to be a champion of Athena.

I have made note of your libelous statements and will be passing them on to God. What happens next is up to Her.
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  #44  
Old 12-05-2012, 04:54 PM
Scumpup Scumpup is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skald the Rhymer View Post
Oh, Starling was NOT a hustling little rube, Scumpup! She was a hero worthy to be a champion of Athena.

I have made note of your libelous statements and will be passing them on to God. What happens next is up to Her.
I have notified Tchernobog that you went crying to mommy. He said not to worry about it.
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  #45  
Old 12-05-2012, 04:57 PM
Skald the Rhymer Skald the Rhymer is offline
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Originally Posted by Scumpup View Post
I have notified Tchernobog that you went crying to mommy. He said not to worry about it.
Rhymers also do not weep. While Pallas understands sorrow, having grieved mightily over the tragic but entirely necessary destruction of Troy, she expects and requires that her adult acolytes petition her rationally, not lachrymosely.
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  #46  
Old 12-05-2012, 05:06 PM
Silver Tyger Silver Tyger is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skald the Rhymer View Post
Are you feeling well? You left out Tygra, Cheetara, Panthro, and Jagga in the "trust" category. Not to mention Lion-O & the Wilies in the "suspicious" category.
None of them would ever kill someone, despite what those ridiculous comics said. Actually, I can't think of a cartoon I watch where they would kill people. Maybe a few people in Batman: The Brave and the Bold, but not heroes.
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  #47  
Old 12-05-2012, 05:30 PM
Moonlitherial Moonlitherial is offline
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I haven't watched the first episode of Leverage yet but it's waiting for me and so the chars are on my mind so:

Immediately Trust: Eliot, Hardison and surprising to me but instinctively Parker
Probably suspicious:Nathan, Sophie
Distrust: At this point no one. For a gang of crooks they've done a hell of a job of going not quite straight but definitely moral.
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  #48  
Old 12-05-2012, 05:37 PM
Skald the Rhymer Skald the Rhymer is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonlitherial View Post
I haven't watched the first episode of Leverage yet but it's waiting for me and so the chars are on my mind so:

Immediately Trust: Eliot, Hardison and surprising to me but instinctively Parker
Probably suspicious:Nathan, Sophie
Distrust: At this point no one. For a gang of crooks they've done a hell of a job of going not quite straight but definitely moral.
I'd not necessarily trust Parker; she has poor impulse control. I'd be most inclined to trust Eliot, because more than any of the others, his deal is that he wants to atone for an outright murderous and evil past. He's the one most conscious of his own capacity for evil and most diligent about controlling it. If he decides that someone needs killing, he's probably right.
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  #49  
Old 12-05-2012, 05:42 PM
KneadToKnow KneadToKnow is offline
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Trust:
Spenser
Hawk, if he's working for Spenser
Jules Winnfield

Distrust:
Hawk, if he's not working for Spenser
Vincent Vega
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  #50  
Old 12-05-2012, 05:45 PM
Little Plastic Ninja Little Plastic Ninja is offline
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Trust: The Doctor.
Distrust: The Doctor.
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