The Straight Dope

Go Back   Straight Dope Message Board > Main > Cafe Society

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 12-21-2012, 11:28 PM
silenus silenus is offline
Hoc nomen meum verum non est.
Charter Member
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: SoCal
Posts: 41,331
Lee Dorman(Iron Butterfly) dead at 70.

Another one bites the dust.

So many memories of mis-spent youth.
Reply With Quote
Advertisements  
  #2  
Old 12-21-2012, 11:40 PM
PlainJain PlainJain is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 4,439
Damn! That song is 44 years old? I must be getting old.

R.I.P. Lee.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 12-22-2012, 12:39 AM
wolf_meister wolf_meister is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Where the owls say "Whom"
Posts: 5,405
It's good to see Lee Dorman remembered on the SDMB.
Iron Butterfly were "heavy metal" long before that phrase entered the musical lexicon.
R.I.P. Lee
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 12-22-2012, 07:31 AM
Meurglys Meurglys is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Edinburgh
Posts: 1,872
That's a shame, always liked the songs on the other side of Vida as well... maybe finally get the Fillmore East cd now...
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 12-22-2012, 09:06 AM
Chefguy Chefguy is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Portlandia
Posts: 29,572
Featuring Charles Manson on the drums! I remember thinking that song was interminable, even back in '68, when it came out. One guy in the barracks played it over and over. The story goes that the original title was "In the Garden of Eden", but the lead singer was drunk or high when he sang it, so the title was changed to his slurred version.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 12-22-2012, 09:46 AM
Eugene of Sandwich Eugene of Sandwich is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chefguy View Post
Featuring Charles Manson on the drums! I remember thinking that song was interminable, even back in '68, when it came out. One guy in the barracks played it over and over. The story goes that the original title was "In the Garden of Eden", but the lead singer was drunk or high when he sang it, so the title was changed to his slurred version.
Interesting. Makes sense. Was sort of the Stairway or Free Bird of it's time. An anthem. Remember it well. Sweet bird of youth.

Rest in peace, Mr. Dorman.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 12-22-2012, 10:39 AM
johnpost johnpost is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chefguy View Post
Featuring Charles Manson on the drums! I remember thinking that song was interminable, even back in '68, when it came out. One guy in the barracks played it over and over. The story goes that the original title was "In the Garden of Eden", but the lead singer was drunk or high when he sang it, so the title was changed to his slurred version.
it was a multipurpose song; church hymn and rock and/or roll.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 12-22-2012, 10:53 AM
Meurglys Meurglys is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Edinburgh
Posts: 1,872
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chefguy View Post
Featuring Charles Manson on the drums!
I hadn't heard that before, and a quick search doesn't bring up any connection other than that the Manson Family occupied a house that the group had moved out of some time previously...
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 12-22-2012, 11:26 AM
Peanuthead Peanuthead is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: May 2002
Quote:
Originally Posted by Meurglys View Post
I hadn't heard that before, and a quick search doesn't bring up any connection other than that the Manson Family occupied a house that the group had moved out of some time previously...
I think Chefguy was making a joke. And as to that famous drum solo, if you listen carefully, it seems to be a series of variations of the old "shave and a haircut" riff.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 12-22-2012, 11:46 AM
Meurglys Meurglys is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Edinburgh
Posts: 1,872
I'll consider myself whooshed, then...
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 12-22-2012, 12:03 PM
Chefguy Chefguy is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Portlandia
Posts: 29,572
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peanuthead View Post
I think Chefguy was making a joke. And as to that famous drum solo, if you listen carefully, it seems to be a series of variations of the old "shave and a haircut" riff.
Yeah, I just thought he looked a bit like him. I remember we all thought the drum solo was cool, but it's really pretty boring stuff in comparison to what some can do. I always smile when I see old videos like that. They didn't even bother to plug a cord into the guitars to give it some semblance of an actual performance. It was the same with groups on variety shows like Ed Sullivan. Evan at a young age, I knew it was being lip-synched.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 12-22-2012, 12:48 PM
Emtar KronJonDerSohn Emtar KronJonDerSohn is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
I remember inna gada da vida playing on the radio when I was 7 or 8 years old and my dad explaining "In the 70's, radio DJ's loved these 10 minute drum solos and 20 minute songs because they could get them rolling and step out back to blaze a doobie." "What's blaze a doobie?" "I mean, have some lunch."
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 12-22-2012, 01:16 PM
silenus silenus is offline
Hoc nomen meum verum non est.
Charter Member
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: SoCal
Posts: 41,331
We used to refer to them as "taking a crap" songs.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 12-22-2012, 09:22 PM
Shoeless Shoeless is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: The Sunflower State
Posts: 3,776
Quote:
Originally Posted by Meurglys View Post
I hadn't heard that before, and a quick search doesn't bring up any connection other than that the Manson Family occupied a house that the group had moved out of some time previously...
If you google "Ron Bushy images" (he was the drummer) you'll see a black & white photo where he does kind of look like Charles Manson. I think that was the photo from the back cover of Inna Gadda Da Vida.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 12-22-2012, 10:20 PM
blondebear blondebear is offline
Shouting Grasshopper
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Meridian/280
Posts: 10,451
Lee was the bassist for another great band, Captain Beyond.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 12-22-2012, 11:30 PM
Quasimodem Quasimodem is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
No one read/heard that "In a Gadda Da Vida" was supposed to be Yiddish for "In The Garden Of Love", or was that just PR to cover up the fact Dorman was drunk?

Q
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 12-23-2012, 02:11 AM
TreacherousCretin TreacherousCretin is offline
Horrified Onlooker
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Moscow, Idaho
Posts: 3,801
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quasimodem View Post
No one read/heard that "In a Gadda Da Vida" was supposed to be Yiddish for "In The Garden Of Love", or was that just PR to cover up the fact Dorman was drunk?Q
As I remember it, the story has always been that Ingle (not Dorman) was slobbering drunk when he first presented it to the band. I wonder if being drunk made him sound even more like Boris Karloff?
Trivia of interest only to me: I saw them at the concert that became the "Live" album. (San Diego Sports Arena, '68 or '69). It was far out and groovy.
A couple of years later, I missed seeing Dorman with Captain Beyond, because I didn't like the headline group (Deep Purple, IIRC). My friend was there and told me later, and often, that Dorman, Reinhardt and Caldwell were as good on stage as on record.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 12-23-2012, 03:24 AM
Cicero Cicero is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Australia
Posts: 8,641
I remember my uncle was visiting when I was playing my record of In A Gadda Da Vida. When (at about the 11 minute mark) there was that rather scratchy guitar noise his comment was "that guy outside is wrecking his gearbox!".
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 12-23-2012, 04:38 AM
damagedgoods damagedgoods is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Actually,Neil Yong was quoted as saying something to the fact Manson was a talented lyricist and musician.Who know's if Beach Boy's manager didn't fuck him(please,I'm not a Manson fan,but a total young freak)the 69 rampage might not have happened. (not an excuse just a btw)Young stopped hanging w/Manson 'cuz he was "getting a little farout".(Neil Young-Journey through the past-by Nigel Wiliamson).Or we're you fucking around?I never heard Manson played drum's,just geetar and singing.(an entire LP was put out of his recording's,supposedly o.k., however I only heard one tune.(liked it)anywho we're talkin'n 'bout Iron Maid...errr. Butterfly.But come on guy's and gal's,wasn't the title album's musicianship alittle basic?One hit wonder?

Last edited by damagedgoods; 12-23-2012 at 04:41 AM..
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 12-23-2012, 04:50 AM
damagedgoods damagedgoods is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
If you google "bushy Ron images" I bet you'll find something alittle different.
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 12-23-2012, 05:35 AM
damagedgoods damagedgoods is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
response to Eugene's post

I was only 2-3 at the time,however I'd hardly call ...."Da Vida" an "anthem" of it's time.It was basiclly an nonsensical song. Vietnam, race riot's, gay & woman's movement's.Come on, it was a one hit wonder-w/out any real meaning. It's basiclly 'bout "gadda" gettin "ina" chick's pant's! How 'bout "Woodenships" "ohio" "The Time's They Are 'A Changin" "Senator's Son". How 'bout Guthrie's "Alice's Restaurant"? Come on dude! "Ina Gadda Da Vida" is hardly an "Anthem of the end of the "Summer of Love" Ohh yeah!That remind's me. "Paint it Black, Gimme Shelter" "Free Bird" and Zep's tune are almost an era later!

Last edited by damagedgoods; 12-23-2012 at 05:36 AM.. Reason: 4got title
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 12-23-2012, 05:45 AM
Cicero Cicero is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Australia
Posts: 8,641
What the hell are you on about? The album sold more than 30 million copies and is among the top 40 selling albums of all time.

Iron Butterfly also charted with two subsequent albums Metamorphosis and Ball also charted well.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 12-23-2012, 09:12 AM
Biffy the Elephant Shrew Biffy the Elephant Shrew is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Over on the left
Posts: 11,813
Quote:
Originally Posted by TreacherousCretin View Post
Trivia of interest only to me: I saw them at the concert that became the "Live" album. (San Diego Sports Arena, '68 or '69). It was far out and groovy.
Definitely of interest to me too, as that was my first concert ever! December 1969, and they announced from the stage that they were recording it for a live album. Remember the opening act (before It's a Beautiful Day came on), Too People? I've never been able to find any reference to them since, and I've always wondered who they were.

Very sorry about Lee Dorman's passing--with Erik Brann's death a few years back, half of the classic Butterfly lineup is now gone. I've always thought Iron Butterfly was very underrated, unfairly dismissed as one-hit wonders thanks to that extended jam vehicle with the unfortunate title. "In-A-Gadda-Da-Vida" forever typed them as slack-jawed heavy metal neanderthals, when they were really a very spiffy psych outfit. Dorman in particular had some very active and tasty bass lines on the band's more song-oriented material. Incidentally, In-A-Gadda-Da-Vida wasn't even their best album; Ball was.

After his stint in the music business, Lee Dorman worked as a bus driver for San Diego Transit. I think the driver with the big muttonchops on the the line I used to take to my job in El Cajon must have been him.

R.I.P. Lee.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 12-23-2012, 09:58 AM
pseudotriton ruber ruber pseudotriton ruber ruber is offline
BANNED
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Outer Control
Posts: 10,394
First bass line I ever learned to play, I think.

And the bass line I play to this day to see if I'm in tune.

R.I.P.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 12-23-2012, 02:43 PM
TreacherousCretin TreacherousCretin is offline
Horrified Onlooker
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Moscow, Idaho
Posts: 3,801
Quote:
Originally Posted by damagedgoods View Post
Butterfly.But come on guy's and gal's,wasn't the title album's musicianship a little basic?
Yes, except for Dorman. I think he was playing below his capabilities with IB, as evidenced by his performances with Captain Beyond.*

Quote:
Originally Posted by Biffy the Elephant Shrew View Post
Definitely of interest to me too, as that was my first concert ever! December 1969, and they announced from the stage that they were recording it for a live album. Remember the opening act (before It's a Beautiful Day came on), Too People? I've never been able to find any reference to them since, and I've always wondered who they were.
Well, you just ruined my story. I was at the Sports Arena concert about a year earlier, and I don't remember who else was on the bill but it definitely was not It's A Beautiful Day. Until I read your post I had completely forgotten about the second Butterfly concert at the Arena, which I intentionally skipped for reasons I still can't recall.
By the way, remember how it was called the "Sports Aroma"? That place must have been decrepit before they'd finished building it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Biffy the Elephant Shrew View Post
...with Erik Brann's death a few years back...
Almost ten years. Time flies.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Biffy the Elephant Shrew View Post
Incidentally, In-A-Gadda-Da-Vida wasn't even their best album; Ball was.
Most of IB's canon hasn't aged well for me, but I still enjoy listening to three songs from IAGDV (including the title cut). My favorite, which hasn't aged a bit, is in fact from Ball --- Belda Beast.

* Arguably the worst ever pairing of fantastic band with idiotic name.

Last edited by TreacherousCretin; 12-23-2012 at 02:44 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 12-23-2012, 03:03 PM
wolf_meister wolf_meister is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Where the owls say "Whom"
Posts: 5,405
It's interesting to see that some folks remember Captain Beyond.
I was going to mention that band in my first posting but I figured no one remembers Captain Beyond. (Guess I was wrong).
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 12-23-2012, 09:13 PM
irritant irritant is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by wolf_meister View Post
It's interesting to see that some folks remember Captain Beyond.
I was going to mention that band in my first posting but I figured no one remembers Captain Beyond. (Guess I was wrong).
Captain Beyond was awesome. I mean, Iron Butterfly, everything on that album is sort of shambling, unfinished. But the first version of Captain Beyond, with Bobby Caldwell on drums, is simply one of the greatest hard rock bands ever.

Dancing Madly Backwards, parts 1, 2, and 3

Raging River of Fear

The whole album is kickass.
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 12-23-2012, 10:05 PM
TreacherousCretin TreacherousCretin is offline
Horrified Onlooker
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Moscow, Idaho
Posts: 3,801
Quote:
Originally Posted by irritant View Post
... the first version of Captain Beyond, with Bobby Caldwell on drums, is simply one of the greatest hard rock bands ever....The whole album is kickass.
Especially Caldwell. All three instrumentalists are stellar, but that drumming still makes my jaw drop.
Reply With Quote
Reply



Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:53 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

Send questions for Cecil Adams to: cecil@chicagoreader.com

Send comments about this website to: webmaster@straightdope.com

Terms of Use / Privacy Policy

Advertise on the Straight Dope!
(Your direct line to thousands of the smartest, hippest people on the planet, plus a few total dipsticks.)

Publishers - interested in subscribing to the Straight Dope?
Write to: sdsubscriptions@chicagoreader.com.

Copyright 2013 Sun-Times Media, LLC.