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  #1  
Old 01-17-2013, 07:07 AM
bienville bienville is offline
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Windsor Knot or Windsor Not

There is no such thing as a "Half Windsor".
What you call a "Half Windsor" is more accurately described as "Not Knowing How to Tie a Fucking Tie".

Thank you for your attention.
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  #2  
Old 01-17-2013, 07:17 AM
Czarcasm Czarcasm is offline
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Originally Posted by bienville View Post
There is no such thing as a "Half Windsor".
What you call a "Half Windsor" is more accurately described as "Not Knowing How to Tie a Fucking Tie".

Thank you for your attention.
I shall give this all the attention it de...Look! A squirrel!
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  #3  
Old 01-17-2013, 07:20 AM
Ludovic Ludovic is offline
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Windsor, schmindsor.
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  #4  
Old 01-17-2013, 07:22 AM
Slithy Tove Slithy Tove is offline
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That's the "Alcatraz Ascot."
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  #5  
Old 01-17-2013, 07:26 AM
lieu lieu is offline
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Beats a Half Nelson though, at least in an interview.
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  #6  
Old 01-17-2013, 07:27 AM
Biotop Biotop is offline
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Really sticking your neck out here...
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  #7  
Old 01-17-2013, 07:32 AM
Gary Kumquat Gary Kumquat is offline
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Meh. Not my favourite, but definitely a recognised knot:

http://www.tcm.phy.cam.ac.uk/~tmf20/tieknots.shtml

Pratt knot for the win (symmetrical, does less damage to the tie)
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  #8  
Old 01-17-2013, 07:38 AM
bienville bienville is offline
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Originally Posted by Gary Kumquat View Post
Meh. Not my favourite, but definitely a recognised knot:
Oh, I recognize it alright. I recognize it as an announcement of "Hey! Look! I'm a jackass who doesn't know how to tie a tie!"
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  #9  
Old 01-17-2013, 07:42 AM
John Mace John Mace is offline
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So, is it a tie "clip" or a tie "magazine"?
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  #10  
Old 01-17-2013, 07:46 AM
Gary Kumquat Gary Kumquat is offline
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Originally Posted by bienville View Post
Oh, I recognize it alright. I recognize it as an announcement of "Hey! Look! I'm a jackass who doesn't know how to tie a tie!"
I'm guessing you're a Windsor fan?
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  #11  
Old 01-17-2013, 07:52 AM
Sicks Ate Sicks Ate is offline
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Originally Posted by bienville View Post
Oh, I recognize it alright. I recognize it as an announcement of "Hey! Look! I'm a jackass who doesn't know how to tie a tie!"
Or possibly, someone who has a very long torso and can't spare the extra length it takes to wrap a tie around itself 11 times just so they can feel like people give a shit about their tie.

ETA: Prig.

Last edited by Sicks Ate; 01-17-2013 at 07:53 AM..
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  #12  
Old 01-17-2013, 07:56 AM
stpauler stpauler is offline
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Unless it's an eldredge knot, who cares?
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  #13  
Old 01-17-2013, 07:59 AM
lieu lieu is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bienville View Post
What you call a "Half Windsor" is more accurately described as "Not Knowing How to Tie a Fucking Tie".
Ah, the Dook of Windsor.
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  #14  
Old 01-17-2013, 08:13 AM
Gary Kumquat Gary Kumquat is offline
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Originally Posted by Sicks Ate View Post
Or possibly, someone who has a very long torso and can't spare the extra length it takes to wrap a tie around itself 11 times just so they can feel like people give a shit about their tie.
The Pratt knot is good for that, and easier on the tie.

The Windsor though? I think Fleming had a point in From Russia With Love:

"Bond mistrusted anyone who tied his tie with a Windsor knot. It showed too much vanity. It was often the mark of a cad."

Also, as noted in my previous cite, it is the de facto knot of your communist dictator type. Chavez, Putin, most of the chinese government...well, you get the idea.
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  #15  
Old 01-17-2013, 08:36 AM
DrFidelius DrFidelius is offline
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I know how to tie a Windsor knot, but I am usually that guy wearing a bow tie.
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  #16  
Old 01-17-2013, 08:40 AM
Ravenman Ravenman is offline
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Originally Posted by bienville View Post
There is no such thing as a "Half Windsor".
What you call a "Half Windsor" is more accurately described as "Not Knowing How to Tie a Fucking Tie".
Where the hell did this come from? I'm willing to bet that the half Windsor is the most common way to tie a tie in the world.

The four-in-hand is clearly the lowliest of the tie knots. It isn't even debatable.
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  #17  
Old 01-17-2013, 08:49 AM
silenus silenus is offline
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The latest issue of "Tie and Cummerbund" has an article on "deviant" knots. They think they should be banned before another generation of boys is traumatized by the knowledge that, indeed, there is but One Correct Way to tie a tie.


And that is Pratt.
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  #18  
Old 01-17-2013, 08:59 AM
tdn tdn is offline
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Originally Posted by bienville View Post
There is no such thing as a "Half Windsor".
What you call a "Half Windsor" is more accurately described as "Not Knowing How to Tie a Fucking Tie".
You have my deepest sympathies. I would be outraged too. First the tragedy at Sandy Hook, and now this.

I blame the libertarians.
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  #19  
Old 01-17-2013, 09:01 AM
Steve MB Steve MB is offline
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The issues only arises when one makes the error of purchasing a defective tie with its clip-on attachment missing.
__________________
The Internet: Nobody knows if you're a dog. Everybody knows if you're a jackass.
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  #20  
Old 01-17-2013, 09:16 AM
madmonk28 madmonk28 is offline
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Sorry, OP, bu tyou reveal yourself to be ignorant on the issue of men's fashion. The half Windsor is a perfectly acceptable knot that can be used depending on the shape of the wearer's face and the event to which the tie will be worn. I use as my cite Dressing the Man, a book which I own and consult regularly.
http://www.amazon.com/Dressing-Man-M...=men%27s+style

Your position seems to be based on the mistaken belief that there are lock step rules to style, when in fact there are not. Remember, fashion is for those with out taste and etiquette is for those without manners.
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  #21  
Old 01-17-2013, 09:27 AM
Chefguy Chefguy is offline
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Originally Posted by John Mace View Post
So, is it a tie "clip" or a tie "magazine"?
The latter is for assault ties.
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  #22  
Old 01-17-2013, 09:33 AM
tdn tdn is offline
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The latter is for assault ties.
I'm all choked up.
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  #23  
Old 01-17-2013, 09:35 AM
Finagle Finagle is offline
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What's the proper knot for ties that hang in the closet gathering dust until someone dies or gets married, at which time the wearer is (hopefully) far from the center of attention and considers the event a success if he doesn't actually spill food on the tie?
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  #24  
Old 01-17-2013, 09:39 AM
Sicks Ate Sicks Ate is offline
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Originally Posted by Finagle View Post
What's the proper knot for ties that hang in the closet gathering dust until someone dies or gets married, at which time the wearer is (hopefully) far from the center of attention and considers the event a success if he doesn't actually spill food on the tie?
I assume that these ties are 10-15 years old (or more), and possibly out of fashion?

What 'knot' to wear, indeed.
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  #25  
Old 01-17-2013, 09:43 AM
Finagle Finagle is offline
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I assume that these ties are 10-15 years old (or more), and possibly out of fashion?
Well, the newer ones, yeah.
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  #26  
Old 01-17-2013, 09:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Finagle View Post
What's the proper knot for ties that hang in the closet gathering dust until someone dies or gets married, at which time the wearer is (hopefully) far from the center of attention and considers the event a success if he doesn't actually spill food on the tie?
I wonder what years of having to wear a suit and tie does to you? Cutting off that flow of blood to your brain, and all... Well, now that I'm a teacher, my ties are waiting for a funeral. And some of them are still tied, ready to be slipped over my head.

[OP's head explodes]
[or it will, as soon as he realizes that there are people out there without his devotion to "style"... who look better than he does!]
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  #27  
Old 01-17-2013, 10:04 AM
Labrador Deceiver Labrador Deceiver is offline
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Originally Posted by madmonk28 View Post

Your position seems to be based on the mistaken belief that there are lock step rules to style, when in fact there are not. Remember, fashion is for those with out taste and etiquette is for those without manners.
This.

It really shouldn't surprise anyone that so many if these people inhabit the Straight Dope.
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  #28  
Old 01-17-2013, 11:08 AM
brad_d brad_d is offline
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That's a mighty impressive list of ways to knot a tie in Gary Kumquat's link. Back when I was teaching myself by trial-and-error how to tie a tie, I stopped worrying about it when I came across a method that appeared to work; it appears this method is known as the four-in-hand knot.

On the increasingly-rare occasions where a tie is appropriate, I still just go with that.
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  #29  
Old 01-17-2013, 11:35 AM
August West August West is offline
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Windsor knots are for blowhards and insurance salesmen (note:sets are not exclusive). I despise them.
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  #30  
Old 01-17-2013, 11:53 AM
Procrustus Procrustus is offline
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Originally Posted by bienville View Post
There is no such thing as a "Half Windsor".
What you call a "Half Windsor" is more accurately described as "Not Knowing How to Tie a Fucking Tie".

Thank you for your attention.
Now I'm sad. For about twenty years I tied my ties some crazy way my mother taught me. Then the Internet cam along and I taught myself to tie a half Windsor. I was so happy with the improvement. Even my wife noticed. Now, I'm a douch again...
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  #31  
Old 01-17-2013, 11:55 AM
Chefguy Chefguy is offline
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I wonder what years of having to wear a suit and tie does to you? Cutting off that flow of blood to your brain, and all... Well, now that I'm a teacher, my ties are waiting for a funeral. And some of them are still tied, ready to be slipped over my head.
I wore ties as a requirement for the some of the positions I held. I never cinched them up or buttoned the top button of my shirt unless I had to go talk to the big boss or speak before the board. Hated the damn things, and they gave me headaches if I had to wear one cinched for any extended period.
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  #32  
Old 01-17-2013, 11:57 AM
Alessan Alessan is online now
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Hi. My name is Alessan, I'm a 38-year-old middle-class urban college graduate, and I have no fucking idea how to tie a tie. What am I, a lawyer or something?
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  #33  
Old 01-17-2013, 12:00 PM
Ravenman Ravenman is offline
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What am I, a lawyer or something?
A farmer, perhaps?
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  #34  
Old 01-17-2013, 12:28 PM
Jophiel Jophiel is offline
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Originally Posted by Gary Kumquat View Post
Meh. Not my favourite, but definitely a recognised knot:

http://www.tcm.phy.cam.ac.uk/~tmf20/tieknots.shtml

Pratt knot for the win (symmetrical, does less damage to the tie)
According to that site, the half-Windsor is worn by Will Smith, beloved American actor, and the Windsor is worn by Vladimir Putin and other dictators.

So I guess it comes down to how much you love America and freedom.
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  #35  
Old 01-17-2013, 12:40 PM
madmonk28 madmonk28 is offline
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I wish more people dressed up for work and I have egalitarian reasons for wishing so. Notice that the dress down period has coincided with a time when your employer 'gives' you a device like a smart phone so that you can always answer emails. You are essentially expected to kind of always be at work, similarly you get to dress like down, more like you would if you didn't have to come to the office. I like having work clothes that you wear at work and then not work clothes when you are not at work, but now your expected to kind of always be at work, the distinction in 'my' time and 'their' time has been erased.
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  #36  
Old 01-17-2013, 12:49 PM
BubbaDog BubbaDog is offline
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I wish more people dressed up for work and I have egalitarian reasons for wishing so. Notice that the dress down period has coincided with a time when your employer 'gives' you a device like a smart phone so that you can always answer emails. You are essentially expected to kind of always be at work, similarly you get to dress like down, more like you would if you didn't have to come to the office. I like having work clothes that you wear at work and then not work clothes when you are not at work, but now your expected to kind of always be at work, the distinction in 'my' time and 'their' time has been erased.
It's a shame that this problem couldn't be remedied by something like buying different clothes for work/play and then turning off the fucking phone.
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  #37  
Old 01-17-2013, 01:01 PM
lieu lieu is offline
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Hi. My name is Alessan, I'm a 38-year-old middle-class urban college graduate, and I have no fucking idea how to tie a tie. What am I, a lawyer or something?
"You got city hands, Mr. Alessan. You been countin' money all your life."
SPOILER:
Quint from Jaws on tying knots.
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  #38  
Old 01-17-2013, 01:10 PM
madmonk28 madmonk28 is offline
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It's a shame that this problem couldn't be remedied by something like buying different clothes for work/play and then turning off the fucking phone.
Well, my point is that they have created a culture whereby employees have given up significant free time for not wearing ties. I wasn't talking about my situation, but all of ours.

Of course, its the Dope which prides its self on non-elective celibacy, wearing flip flops to funerals, owning too many cats and watching porn.
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  #39  
Old 01-17-2013, 01:16 PM
prodicus prodicus is offline
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Beats a Half Nelson though, at least in an interview.
I feel like this comment deserves some recognition. It made me laugh.
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  #40  
Old 01-17-2013, 01:59 PM
Saint Cad Saint Cad is offline
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Windsor knots are for blowhards and insurance salesmen (note:sets are not exclusive). I despise them.
At least they look better than the lopsided mess of a half-Windsor.


Never saw he Pratt before. I'll have to wear that to a funeral I'm going to on Saturday.
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  #41  
Old 01-17-2013, 02:01 PM
RedFury RedFury is offline
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Half-Windsor all the way. Specially when tie-fashion goes wide, I call a full Windsor, The Goiter

Last edited by RedFury; 01-17-2013 at 02:04 PM.. Reason: fixed coding
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  #42  
Old 01-17-2013, 02:21 PM
BubbaDog BubbaDog is offline
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It's a shame that this problem couldn't be remedied by something like buying different clothes for work/play and then turning off the fucking phone.
Actually, if you know my situation you'd be screaming that my life is exactly as you portrayed the the modern workforce.

Our office dress code is nonexistent with the only rule being "Don't come to work stinky"

And the company pays my cell phone bill.
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  #43  
Old 01-17-2013, 02:39 PM
madmonk28 madmonk28 is offline
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Not sure what your point is, but hey, keep fucking that chicken.
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  #44  
Old 01-17-2013, 02:59 PM
Cheesesteak Cheesesteak is offline
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The four-in-hand is clearly the lowliest of the tie knots. It isn't even debatable.
Seriously, it's a kiddie knot. A windsor is way too big a knot, the half windsor is the perfect size for a knot. Personally, I prefer the self releasing half windsor.

Knots that don't release are for chumps.
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  #45  
Old 01-17-2013, 03:33 PM
BigT BigT is offline
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I find it funny that such a small thing as what tie knot you use is considered such a big deal. To me, it seems more like something particularly fashionable people would care about. I personally can't imagine even noticing what knot was used.

I've never understood why no one has every come up with a knot that actually lets you adjust the tie to the right length after the tie is tied. nor why no one has come up with a better simulation than the clip-on. Seems you could have a tie that appears to go all the way around your neck, but still essentially clips on.

They'd be a lot better than even the half Windsor, which still takes up too much tie, leaving you without enough tail to tack/tuck into the slit on the back.
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  #46  
Old 01-17-2013, 03:34 PM
madmonk28 madmonk28 is offline
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Yeah, the four in hand is for your first recital.
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  #47  
Old 01-17-2013, 03:49 PM
Spectre of Pithecanthropus Spectre of Pithecanthropus is offline
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Granted, he was writing more than 30 years ago, but Paul Fussell offers some interesting observations on the class inferences to be drawn from how you knot your tie. Moreover, the book in question, Class, is rather prejudiced towards usages in the American northeast. Still, the underlying principle seems valid, to wit: the full Windsor is the favorite of high school boys everywhere, as he puts it. In grown men it betrays the anxiety typical of the middle class, as of one fearful of being called down by the HR department for a dress code violation. The middle class American , so Fussell, imagines wrongly that the upper classes are characterized by increasing fastidiousness and neatness of dress, the higher we look up the class ladder. Actually the most neatly dressed member of an upper class household is likely to be a servant.

By contrast, the half-Windsor knot is a typical expression of a more relaxed attitude which is characteristic of the upper classes. Certainly a suit will be worn when called for, and a well fitted one at that, but the tie knot will not be so fastidiously symmetrical or so tightly cinched. The HW knot is perfect for this because it's asymmetrical by its very nature.

To state Fussell's argument more concisely: you inflict "class damage" on yourself by being fastidiously clean when you should be filthy, or excessively neat when you should be more relaxed in your appearance.

I don't necessarily agree with the author on all that he says, but it's nevertheless a fascinating read.
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  #48  
Old 01-17-2013, 03:50 PM
Spectre of Pithecanthropus Spectre of Pithecanthropus is offline
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Windsor, schmindsor.
I call it the Battenberg-Sachsen-Coburg knot.
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  #49  
Old 01-17-2013, 04:00 PM
MOIDALIZE MOIDALIZE is offline
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My dad flies into town every morning to tie my tie for me. I'll have to ask him what knot he uses.
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  #50  
Old 01-17-2013, 05:23 PM
Drunky Smurf Drunky Smurf is offline
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I find it funny that such a small thing as what tie knot you use is considered such a big deal.
Really? This is the place where if you forget a comma or apostrophe assholes jump your shit.
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