I went to the key place to get some copies of my house key. They look pretty good, but none of them work! They go in the lock but won’t turn it all the way.
The original key works fine.
I guess I’ll go back tomorrow and give them what-for, but what could be the cause of such a calamity?
Whenever we get keys cut for our office, the ones that don’t work are usually either too long or too short. Check the shoulder of the key against the original - I’d bet the new key is going in too far (or not far enough).
And now I know lots of key terms for the day!
That was my guess as well. Try putting the key in and then pulling it out just a hair as you turn it. If it turns at some point while you’re backing it out, the key cutter did a bad job (or grabbed the wrong blank) and should make you new ones for free. Well, they should make you news ones anyways, but that’s the problem.
Or just try lining up the teeth and see if the shoulders (never knew it was called that) line up as well.
I had that problem once years ago and they were just barely off, but it was enough to cause a problem with the new key going in too far.
When you say “key place” - do you mean locksmith?
One thing I learned long ago was not to trust the key cutting places inside hardware stores - etc.
If the place doesn’t sell locks & safes (and pretty much only that) - I wouldn’t trust them to cut they keys correctly. Obviously they usually do - but it isn’t worth the hassle when they don’t. Also - bring the best quality original to get a copy (which of course isn’t often possible).
I even had one hardware store cut the key upside down (I swear I am not making this up). Didn’t notice until i got home that the cut was on the bottom.
T-t-t-too much time on your hands.
Key shoulder not aligned correctly – agree with this. I’ve got some bad keys like that.
Here’s an article about keys with an annotated illustration pointing out the (ahem) key parts of a key. The shoulder is point “B” in the illustration (called a “shoulder stop” in that article).
I was going to post this same message (I swear:D) but decided to wait until I saw more posts from the OP.
I, too, will only take my keys to a locksmith for reproduction. In my experience the extra 57 cents is money well spent over the (albeit hard working and well intentioned) kid that does it at the Walmart or hardware store.
Yep, it was Home Depot. What can I say. They’re nearby.
Actually, I was wondering if a “secret” lock could be made, where you aren’t meant to put the key in fully. If you push the key in all the way, it wouldn’t work. Might add some security.
Well, I ventured back into the Orange Despot and journeyed forth to the Keymaster’s realm. The guy on duty in the morning was a grumpy old coot whom I assumed to be an actual locksmith in a previous life, now working for the guys who put him out of business.
I showed him the defective copies and the original, and he immediately noticed a notch in the shoulder of the original, apparently to accommodate a faceplate on the lock, which had not been duplicated on the copies. He grumbled that the person on duty yesterday should have noticed that, but they didn’t. He filed the shoulders down in the correct spot and happily all my copies now function perfectly.
I love happy endings!
By any chance are you a masseuse?
Making a copy of an old is not always easy. The key may be worn and still work but making a copy can be off just a little and that be enough to keep the key from working. And if the pins in the lock are worn then more troubles are added.
It also depends on the pinning of the lock. I pinned a lock to the regional office of the company I worked for. If I cut an origional key the key would work. But about 60% of the keys that I made by coping an origional key did not work.
I know the pinning combination of my locks. This lets me cut an orgional key when I need another key.
With many new locks the keys are stamped with the pinning numbers. Keep those numbers and when you need a new key go to a locksmith shop and ask them to cut a new key.
Sure. You might need a longer blank, depending on the shear point of the innermost pin in the cylinder. Many locks come in a 6-pin as well as a 5-pin variant, with the 5-pin being common for consumer locks and 6 being popular for businesses.
Easy if you own your own key machine as I do. Not so easy for the automated anyone-can-use-it (badly) machines at the home center. Conversely, the automated machines will have no trouble copying your “secret” key, although whoever has it will still nee to know the trick of using it.
It is much more likely that the key is worn than the lock. That’s particularly true for the fad aluminum keys, which are a lot softer.
If you go to a real locksmith and not a keymaker, they can use a gauge to “read” the existing key and cut a new one “by the numbers”. That should eliminate any errors from wear and/or out-of-spec prior duplication.
Certain brands of locks cannot (normally) have their keys duplicated in the usual manner - for example, both Medeco and Best require copies to be created by punching, not cutting. Thus, all copies are exact.
I say “normally” because any key with normal cuts (whether straight or angled like Medeco) can be copied with a blank and a file. This was one of the first practice lessons when I went to locksmithing class. Of course, bizarre locks like the Sargent Keso family don’t use “cut” keys at all.
Having the number is handy if you lose the key, as most times locksmiths will have access to the code book for number-to-cut mappings. Schlage is easy as the numbers directly give each pin’s cut depth.
But would a longer blank fit all the way in the lock? Maybe with the same blank, remove the deepest pin in the lock, then fit the front of the blank to the first few pins. i.e. if the pins were 1-2-3-4-5, remove pin 1 and fit 2-3-4-5 to 1-2-3-4 on the key. Then cut a random one for 5.
Many lock cylinders have an opening in the back as well as the front, though it may be partially or completely blocked off by other parts of the mechanism.
In any event, there’s usually a little gap between how far the correct key enters the cylinder before coming to rest on the shoulder and the actual back of the cylinder.
The most common reasons for non-working keys are:
#1 The key machine is out of calibration, though the discrepancy may not be noticeable to the naked eye.
#2 The wrong blank was used or the machine was not operated properly, because the person working the machine has very little training and isn’t really a locksmith.
#3 The key being copied was not a very good key to begin with, itself a copy of a copy of a copy, and finally the errors exceeded the tolerances of the lock. Copies are rarely better than the original, almost always slightly worse.
You will get a much lower failure rate (but not zero) if you go to a real locksmith, not a hardware store.