SDMB Discipline Clvb (Er, Latin Clvb)

[Maeglin]

There's been a bit of SDMB interest in learning the [i]lingua latina[/b], perhaps the eternal language dearest to my own heart. LNO and I have bravely volunteered to hold the fasces over any and all prospective Latin students. MsRobyn is, of course, also invited to partake in the glory that is Latin pedagogy.

For those who are really interested, you may purchase the text here. It's a little pricey at nearly $30, but it's a great text. It's even a good resource for advanced students.

So whether you're an expert, a rank newbie, or need a refresher, join up!

Deep down, you know you want to learn. Cicero wants you to learn, too. And he can be very persuasive.

[Mnementh]

I want to learn Latin. But you knew that.

[MsRobyn]

Include me in, please! (But only if I can be the third person in the triumvirate. [yes, I know that, strictly speaking, I can't be in a triumvirate {vir=man}, but we can pretend] [just kidding. I will settle for proconsul] )

And remember: Damnant quod non intellegunt!

Robin

[dropzone]

I'm still going over it in my head. A (nearly) free class in a language I've always sorta wanted to learn, or should I not waste the brainpower on it and learn acoustics like my boss wants me to? And how little acoustics do I really need to learn to impress him that I've become our corporate acoustics geek?

Hmmmm, several tenses that don't exist in English, nouns that ALL have a gender, a language I could NEVER use in real life...I don't know. Could be fun in a masochistic way.

[Maeglin]

I knew you'd be in, Mnem. Let us know when you get the text.

MsRobyn, you can certainly be part of the triumvir. We can even rename it duumviretfemina if you like.

And Latin is only masochistic for the first few years, drop. Then it actually becomes fun.

MR

[lno]

Even though I'm sure everyone's heard this before, you really do get out of Latin what you put into it. If you pick up the textbook, attend to the lessons, chant your declensions until they bubble out of your head and onto your pillow while you sleep, and start shouting rebuttals at the inanities of Seneca (and he is inane, Maeglin), then you're going to have a strong grounding in the language and will be happy, rich, healthy, and people of your sexual preference will flock around you.

If you give it a half-hearted effort, and don't pay attention to the basics, then a little ways down the line you'll be lost, confused, frustrated, annoyed, angry, and wondering where all the attractive people are. (Hint: they're flocking around the people who bought the textbook.)

[lno]

(Also, whereas Amazon is currently out of stock on the textbook with an estimated ship date of 1-2 weeks, Barnes & Noble has it in stock at the same price and can ship immediately. Same day delivery in Manhattan, too.)

[magdalene]

All I remember from H.S. Latin class:

Puer puellam pugnat.

And frog = rana, right?

I can't afford the textbook for another 2 weeks or so, but when that shining day comes, I'm in. Like dropzone, I like the masochistic element.

[dropzone]

Okay, I sometimes give the Latin responses under my breath in church, which is especially bad considering the Lutherans haven't used Latin in their liturgy for about five hundred years, but I'm still not sure about this.

However, I have a Latin Joke!

What's the Pope's phone number?

Et cum spiritu tuo.

<rimshot>

[Francesca]

I have seven years of Latin behind me... could i be a classroom assistant? I've got an A Level in it and i've studied Catullus, Virgil, J. Caesar, Ovid and sundry others. I loved Latin at school. As an added bonus, i have a GCSE in Ancient Greek too (grade A - i know, i'm great).

Repeat after me:

Puella, puellam, puellae....

[Maeglin]

and start shouting rebuttals at the inanities of Seneca (and he is inane, Maeglin)

That's it.

Class, our first reading will be Seneca. We will continue to read Seneca until LNO discovers the error of his ways and recants utterly. Utterly. Utterly.

Francesca, welcome aboard. I do Greek as well...perhaps for those who are interested, we can expand later. Not sure how we would do the font here, though...

MR

[lno]

See, now I face a dilemma.

Do I insist that Seneca is sophomoric and refuse to acquiesce? Is this a matter of pride?

Or do I consider the greater good and submit, thus saving the students from an eternity (and it WILL seem like one, class) of mindless prattle?

Ah, choices, choices.

_{And I STILL think that Winnie-ille-Pu should be required reading.}

[Francesca]

Originally posted by LNO
_{And I STILL think that Winnie-ille-Pu should be required reading.}

Oh yay! I loved Winnie-ille-Pu!

[Maeglin]

[quote[Do I insist that Seneca is sophomoric and refuse to acquiesce? Is this a matter of pride?

Or do I consider the greater good and submit, thus saving the students from an eternity (and it WILL seem like one, class) of mindless
prattle?[/quote]

You read the Thyestes and then tell me it's mindless prattle.

This from a person who admits to having read Winnie-ille-Pu.

Dunno why I bother.

[Humble Servant]

I am not a masochist.

[whining] But, Maeglin, I thought we were going to read Vergil or some other dead white guy who wrote in a dead language. [/whining] I'd do Seneca in a minute too . In English, I mean.

[lno]

Point, set, match.

Ok, I'll read Seneca and quit whining.

[Maeglin]

whining] But, Maeglin, I thought we were going to read Vergil or some other dead white guy who wrote in a dead language. [/whining]

We were, but that kinda...well, you know. The thread's still there. Feel free to resurrect it.

MR

[Helen's Eidolon]

Wow! This'd be really cool.

I'm going to go into classics in University in the winter, this'd be a great head-start. But... umm... we're not expected to have any prior knowledge of the language, are we?




(side note: I'm also trying to learn Ancient Egyptian, if anyone here knows anything about it, please email me!)

[Studi]

Sounds like fun, but I already have thirty thousand Latin text books in my room.

Studi

[lno]

Originally posted by LaurAnge
But... umm... we're not expected to have any prior knowledge of the language, are we?

No prior knowledge is necessary. However, without prior knowledge, the first few lessons will be crucial. So pay attention and stop playing footsie with the moderators.

A very unofficial list of interested parties:
Maeglin
LNO
MsRobyn
Mnementh
dropzone
magdalene
Francesca
LaurAnge

The first person to purchase the textbook gets a free "Get out of corporal punishment free" card.

[Falcon]

Okay, I'm interested, but I can't afford the text until after the 15th. Is that ok?

[Maeglin]

Yup, I think we can forgive you. You may have to be flogged, though. Just to set an example, as it were.

[Falcon]

WHAT? Well, we can take care of that at the NYC dopefest, right?

[dropzone]

Teach, I fear you may need to flog a few of us, then. Mid-May sounds (financially) good to me, too.

[lno]

I'll take care of flogging the women, Maeg; you can handle the guys.

[screech-owl]

Now I know what to get with the Amazon gift certificate DRY gave me for my birthday.
(Now I just have to learn how to thank him in Latin.)

It's on order! I'll get it in a couple of weeks. Woohoo!(Ironically, I just spent my Barnes & Noble gift certificate on a book that B&N has on back order.)

[Now if only I could read the boards at home! I can access them only at work, so I can't attend class after 5 pm.]

So basically:
The floggings will continue until morale improves?

[Falcon]

Um, the floggings will be gentle, right? RIGHT?

*runs and hides*

[Steve Wright]

Please consider me interested... lapsed classicist, trying to knock the rust off some of my languages. (I'm actually trying to get to grips with Boethius' Consolations of Philosophy at the moment, but I'm cheating by using one of those Loeb en regarde translation editions).

Seneca I can cope with. But I did Cicero's Pro Caelio for A level, and I'm warning you, if I have to suffer through that one again... just kill me now. (I used to turn up for class wearing a badge that said "Caelius is guilty OK", I got that annoyed...)

[dropzone]

Originally posted by screech-owl
Barnes & Noble gift certificate

Thanks for reminding me! I have one of them. It was supposed to be for the whole family, but they spent the last one. And it would do them some good to learn Latin.

[Maeglin]

'll take care of flogging the women, Maeg; you can handle the guys.

My fasces doesn't swing that way, LNO. But I suppose if I am going to be an Equal Opportunity Flogger, I might as well not be homophobic about it then.

For all those who won't have the book for another two weeks, that will be fine. It will probably make the most sense to start out with general grammar stuff, to ease the road for those with little inflected (or regular) foreign language experience.

That and it will probably take awhile for LNO and I to figure out what the hell we have gotten ourselves into, er, get organized.

Boethius is good stuff, Steve. As I am sure you know, the Loeb's not exactly the primo edition. What do you think of his curious Late Antique verse?

And I like the Pro Caelio. Ok, not the bullshit about the ambassadors. The rest of it is great!

screech-owl

Gratias ago.

MR

[Mnementh]

I can't afford the book just now either, Maeg, plus I'm off for five days starting tomorrow. I'll be in here seeing what you've all been up to the day I'm back, though, and I should be able to get the book that week.

But try to flog me and you'll end up with a broadsword in a place you wouldn't like it.

[Katisha]

Ooh, Latin! I want in, as long as we don't have to read Tacitus. I'm still recovering from that particular trauma.

[amarinth]

I'm in.

[MsRobyn]

I'm buying my copy when I get paid this Friday. Fortunately, I live right around the corner from both a Borders and a Barnes and Noble, in addition to having access to several university bookstores, one of them Catholic. So someone's got to have that book.

Also, I found that making flashcards really helps with vocabulary, both in terms of actually writing down the word (be sure to include the genitive) and its meaning; but also for repetition. When you have extra time to study, just whip out your flashcards!

Robin

[Steve Wright]

Hmmm. Have to think about Boethius's verse... some of it seems very self-consciously simple, almost as if he's going back to first principles and trying to re-invent from there? Of course, I haven't yet got around to analysing the metre and... oh, there's an idea - if I want to know what it actually sounds like, I could try reading it out loud, couldn't I?

UK people like myself might like to know (if they don't already) that amazon.co.uk is advertising only a 2-3 day lead time on the textbook. (Mine's on order.)

[Maeglin]

But try to flog me and you'll end up with a broadsword in a place you wouldn't like it.

Mnementh, you are so threatening the wrong person.

Come to DC this weekend for the rapier seminar. Three days of constant fighting and training. We'll see whose ass gets the business end of whose sword then.

Anyway, if there are lots of people who are interested but don't have the book, we can start the Latin stuff later. I will be away this weekend, so LNO and I won't really have a chance to hash this stuff out.

MR

[Falcon]

Wait, Maeg? Is this the same seminar you said I could laugh my ass off watching you at?

[Maeglin]

Well, yeah. But I have to be modest or you will start having expectations. This way when I actually do fabulously, I can pretend to be surprise, and you will think I am some sort of prodigy.

Naturally.

[Humble Servant]

Hi all--I've seen several translations of this, some of which are very different. Perhaps you could help me out and get some practice by giving me your translations of this passage while you're waiting for the textbooks.

"Arma virumque cano, Troiae qui primus ab oris Italiam, fato profugus, Laviniaque venit litora, multum ille et terris iactatus et alto vi supernum saevae memorem Iunonis ob iram...."

Thanks!

[lno]

I sing of arms and a ... hey! This looks familiar. You won't get me to do your homework for you. (That is, unless I receive a substantial bribe. Pizza and beer are acceptable.) (And for the love of God, don't use the translation 'Arms, and the man I sing, forc'd by fate, And haughty Juno's unrelenting hate...' It sounds like Latin gangster rap.)

Note the 'arma virumque'. -que is the happy enclitic conjuction. A modern equivalent is when Indiana Jones says to Short Round, "Fortune and glory, kid. Fortune and glory."

Or, fortuna gloriaque, puer. Fortuna gloriaque.

_{Ok, I definitely need my morning coffee now.}

[Maeglin]

It sounds like Latin gangster rap

I smell a challenge.

[lno]

I smell a challenge.

We've gone rounds on archaic languages, we've fought a battle in the pit on your Luddite tendencies, and I've barely held my ground, if that.

I smell a preemptive concession - or at least until I get my midmorning nap in.

[Humble Servant]

That's "gansta" in proper usage, guys. I attended a performance of Coriolanus with the Romans as gansters, with motorcycles and AK-47s and all wearing black leather. They didn't update the language. It was not good, but we still talk about how bad it was, so it did make its point.

Pizza and beers all around if you do Latin rap--best to use classic rap that everyone will recognize. (Maybe "Me so Horny," or "Who Let the Dogs Out.")

Oh, and I meant to add this link to an extremely interesting and on-topic thread.

[Maeglin]

Beastie Boys. License to Ill.

That will be my primary text.

[lno]

A fine selection.

Shall we work with the classic Fight For Your Right or perhaps the oft-overlooked Paul Revere? Or perhaps one of my personal favorites, Brass Monkey?

_{How DOES 'funky' translate into Latin, anyway?}

[MsRobyn]

Originally posted by Humble Servant
"Arma virumque cano, Troiae qui primus ab oris Italiam, fato profugus, Laviniaque venit litora, multum ille et terris iactatus et alto vi supernum saevae memorem Iunonis ob iram...."

Thanks!

Nice try, neophyte! If you want others to do your homework for you, go to GQ. They really don't mind.

Robin

[Humble Servant]

Hehe. I feel like I've just been carded. I'm 39 and I wish I had homework, Robin. You should look at this really interesting related thread to see why I'm asking you guys this. It's bait, you see.

[dropzone]

Wait, let's get back to Maeglin's revelation that he is a rapierist. Can we allow him to hang around here after that?

[MsRobyn]

Apologies to Humble Servant. I hadn't read his Aeneid thread and missed the joke. (That's what I get for not going to Page 2.)

This little masochist needs to go to bed.

Robin

[Katisha]

While we're discussing translating stuff into Latin, I'll submit (for your approval!) something I did one day when I was bored...

In cavum in terram vivebat hobbitus. Non erat cavum foedum, sordidum, et uvidum, quod erat plenum dorsorum vermum et odoris levis; nec cavum aridum, pressum et harnenosum, cum nihil aut considere aut edere; erat cavum hobbiti, videlicet commodum.

Janua perfecte rotunda erat et picta viridis; habebat bullam flavam fulgidam in media exacta. Patebat in atrium cylindratum ut cuniculo: cuniculus commodior sine fumo, cum parietibus laqueatis, et pavimentis... here's where I got sick of translating