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  #1  
Old 05-01-2001, 01:13 AM
Badtz Maru Badtz Maru is offline
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I was reminded of something a friend told me about his father's induction into the Knights of Columbus by the thread about the Freemasons secrets. I was wondering if anybody knew if this was true or false...

This is something that was told to my friend, who told it to me, so I may have some details inaccurate.

He claimed that during the initiation there was a part where a priest was approached by a cripple (or perhaps someone acting like a cripple) dressed in rags, and the priest begins verbally abusing the cripple, and eventually gets violent with him - pushing him down, kicking at him, etc. The applicants are to watch this, and if they come to the defense of the cripple in any way, whether trying to physically protect the cripple from the priest or just telling the priest to stop that, they are not allowed to join. This is supposed to be a test of their loyalty to the Catholic Church.

Does anyone know if this is true, false, somewhat true, or what? The guy who told this to me has been known to stretch the truth, but it does sound like something that might be real.
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  #2  
Old 05-01-2001, 05:39 AM
Bricker Bricker is online now
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I can answer this question definitively.

The story in the OP is not true.

The Knights of Columbus are a society of Catholic gentlemen. The purpose of the initiation ceremonies is to exemplify for the candidates certain lessons of the Order.

One of the lessons is not, and has never been, to defend the Church at the expense of someone helpless.

The Knights of Columbus have been the victims, over the years, of many stories similar to that related in the OP. At one time, the KKK (ever friendly to Catholics!) circulated a bogus oath, a pamphlet purporting to reveal the oath taken by Fourth Degree Knights. In it, the supposed new Fourth Degree member swears to wage war, openly and secretly, against all enemies of the Pope, and to assassinate those who stand in the way of the Church.

Needless to say, there was not the slightest shred of truth in that accusation; still, alarmed at the possibility of such negative publicity, the Order's Board of Directors permitted several prominent Protestant ministers, and several high-level members of the Masons, to attend a Fourth Degree ceremony. The guests were effusive in their priase of the ceremony, and of course affirmed there was no oath requiring assassination of anyone.

- Rick
  #3  
Old 05-01-2001, 06:05 AM
Badtz Maru Badtz Maru is offline
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I wonder where he got the story from - he's Catholic himself, and I know his Dad is a Knight, not exactly the type to be spreading anti-Catholic propaganda.
  #4  
Old 05-01-2001, 07:03 AM
CalMeacham CalMeacham is online now
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You might want to have a look at William Poundstone's book Big Secrets, which describes the K of C initiation ritual (what you give sounds like an incomplete and bastardized version of it). I can't vouch for the truth of what Poundstone relates (I was brung up Catholic, and had friends and relatives in the K of C, but I never asked any of them about the rituals), but Poundstone seems to be pretty trustworthy about things (with the possible exception, one must note for the SDMB, of Cecil's identity).
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  #5  
Old 05-01-2001, 07:41 AM
WIGGUM WIGGUM is offline
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Badtz

I think your friend was talking about induction into The Shug Knights of Columbus.
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Old 05-01-2001, 09:20 AM
bare bare is offline
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The Odd Fellows replay "THE GOOD SAMARITAN" as part of their ritual. Sounds as though that is the story the guy was trying to relate.
  #7  
Old 05-01-2001, 12:30 PM
Crafter_Man Crafter_Man is offline
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I'm a third degree Knight, and thus have been through all the initiations. The "cripple" story is complete B.S.
  #8  
Old 05-01-2001, 06:55 PM
Bricker Bricker is online now
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Crafter_Man,

Strictly speaking, you've not been through "all" the ceremonies if you're a third degree Knight - but if you'll tell me what state, and approximately where, you live, by e-mail, I'll be happy to put you in touch with the nearest Fourth Degree Assembly, and they can get you scheduled to "reach your highest potential" and become a Sir Knight, a member of the Fourth Degree.

- Rick
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  #9  
Old 12-29-2011, 12:46 PM
AngusW AngusW is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bricker View Post
Crafter_Man,

Strictly speaking, you've not been through "all" the ceremonies if you're a third degree Knight - but if you'll tell me what state, and approximately where, you live, by e-mail, I'll be happy to put you in touch with the nearest Fourth Degree Assembly, and they can get you scheduled to "reach your highest potential" and become a Sir Knight, a member of the Fourth Degree.

- Rick
PGK PFN FDD
Worthy PGK,

I was going to say the same thing myself when I read the posting.

Rick
GK
  #10  
Old 12-29-2011, 01:03 PM
Really Not All That Bright Really Not All That Bright is online now
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Is there a zombie degree?
  #11  
Old 06-02-2013, 06:06 PM
KNP950 KNP950 is offline
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KOC

I find it incredibly ignorant of people that feel the need to knock, dishonor or spread rumors in an attempt to have negatively effected the opinion of a group when they do not have the first clue as to what the organization does, requires, consists of, beliefs etc. the KOC is NOT a secret club or cult. The thought of thiamin just ridiculous. The ONLY secret at all with the group is the initiation ceremonies. I am a 3rd degree knight. Honestly I don't quite understand myself why even that is secretive. Believe me if i was to tell you the "secrets" you would be very unimpressed as they are really nothing. KOC is a fraternity and any fraternity, as small as school fraternity's, have some secrets of their initiation. Sure college frats have silly stuff like "secret handshakes", does that make every fraternity a cult? I'm so sick of reading all the negative and often incorrect, information on the web regarding KOC. I feel the root of the negativity isn't even directly aimed at the KOC. It's written by people who for whatever reason have an axe to grind against the Roman Catholic faith. I don't expect everyone to follow or evenings the Catholic faith but I don't understand the need to trash them in print, many times with incorrect data. I don't have anything against any other faiths and certainly would t consider myself an expert enough to even write a out them. Personally I admire anyone of faith, regardless of their choice of faith. I admire people with conviction for their faith and would much rather defend it than to spend time negatively speaking of others. The KOC is a fraternity of Catholic men who come together as a group and help the needy as well as being there for one each other. Some people write that they're an insurance sales group. Yes KOC does have insurance, investments etc for their members with great rAtes and is acknowledged as one of the best insurance/investment groups in the country. However purchasing insurance or any investment is not required of any members. KOC in many cases is the backbone of many Catholic Churches. KOC is relentless in charity work for the unfortunate both nationally and locally in their community. It is beyond me how anyone could trash a group of people who are giving of their time and themselves. In my opinion to do so shows ignorance and prejudice.
  #12  
Old 06-03-2013, 01:04 AM
moriah moriah is offline
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Well, KNP950, if you ever do read this and didn't sign up for this one-off rant, your rant was entirely unnecessary. This is a very old thread and the original story had been properly debunked and made fun of.

Now, if you really want to disabuse folk of what happens at the initiation, please tell us what happens. And please don't leave out the part about the skull.
  #13  
Old 06-07-2013, 09:39 PM
KNP950 KNP950 is offline
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Moriah




Moriah

Seems to me you have quite the chip on your shoulder. I don't care when this was originally posted. If you read something and you're passionate about it you have every right to still respond. You read my response obviously. To me this is much more interesting than some of your posts such as comparing human pee to car's pee or how young trees really are. Since you read my response I'm sure others have as well although they didn't respond so I'd say you're wrong when you say that my response was in unnecessary. Many people are ignorant to the KOC and put them in the same pot as some of the secretive, cult like groups.

You want to know about skulls I think it would be more interesting for you to read up on the organization Skull & Bones.

Lastly anyone who speaks negatively regarding KOC in any if these blog sites is ignorant, obviously not a knight and has prejudice or an axe to grind against the Catholic Church. So if it doesn't bother you any further I'll respond to whatever the hell I want to.
  #14  
Old 06-07-2013, 11:35 PM
moriah moriah is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KNP950 View Post
Lastly anyone who speaks negatively regarding KOC in any if these blog sites is ignorant, obviously not a knight and has prejudice or an axe to grind against the Catholic Church. So if it doesn't bother you any further I'll respond to whatever the hell I want to.
False dilemma.

I can be a faithful Catholic and not care about the KoC. The Knights are a group of people organized within the Church. They are not *the* Church.

Or, I can like the KoC, but think their adherence to 19th century Secret Society norms is outdated and need of reform.

Yes, they use a skull in their secret initiation ceremony (a much simpler one than the elaborate hokey ones of the past). That's silly and should stop. There is not one aspect of becoming a priest or joining the Church through baptism that is done in secret. There's no need for any society within the church (that's not under active persecution... and I mean real arrest-you-in-the-middle-of-the-night persecution and not a vague sense of lack of respect) to have a secret initiation.

So, stop taking criticism as a love-it-or-leave it false dilemma.
  #15  
Old 06-08-2013, 06:21 AM
samclem samclem is offline
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Since this is a twelve year old thread, I'll close it.

samclem, moderator
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