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  #1  
Old 07-25-2013, 02:35 PM
astro astro is offline
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German word "schweinehund". Does it mean pig-like dog or dog-like pig?

Wiktionary says it's literally "pig-dog" AKA bastard but I would imagine it has a more contextual meaning than that in German.

Is it a dog like a pig, or pig like a dog?
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  #2  
Old 07-25-2013, 02:45 PM
Greg Charles Greg Charles is online now
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I thought the literal meaning was a dog used for hunting (or herding?) pigs.
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  #3  
Old 07-25-2013, 04:26 PM
Mops Mops is offline
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Generally in German composite nouns the first part specifies the second - a noun1noun2 is a type of noun2 described by noun1 (and takes the gender from noun2). So a schweinehund is a hund (and takes the male gender from hund rather than the neuter gender from schwein).

Wiki says a type of dog used to hunt wild boars (Sauhund - this word is also encountered as an insult) used to also be called Schweinehund - but I have never encountered this usage (wild boars are hunted with firearms nowadays).

The usage in German is:

Schweinehund (noun, male): strong insult, referring to a man of reprehensible behaviour.

innerer Schweinehund (noun, male - literally inner pigdog): a relatively mild expression, metaphorically referring to weakness of will or courage in oneself or another person. Example: I had to overcome my inner pigdog every morning last week to make my morning run.
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  #4  
Old 07-25-2013, 08:24 PM
Lumpy Lumpy is offline
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Why would one's valuable hunting dogs be held in contempt so?
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  #5  
Old 07-25-2013, 08:56 PM
t-bonham@scc.net t-bonham@scc.net is offline
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Originally Posted by Lumpy View Post
Why would one's valuable hunting dogs be held in contempt so?
Hunting wild boars is quite dangerous; it's not unheard of for one or more of the dogs to be injured or killed in the hunt.

So you don't use your valuable, trained hunting dogs for this; rather it's unproven young dogs or older but unreliable ones ("expendable") that are used as schweinehunds.
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  #6  
Old 07-25-2013, 09:03 PM
Nava Nava is offline
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Originally Posted by Mops View Post
Wiki says a type of dog used to hunt wild boars (Sauhund - this word is also encountered as an insult) used to also be called Schweinehund - but I have never encountered this usage (wild boars are hunted with firearms nowadays).
While dogs are used to hunt boar nowadays, it's very different from the way it was done back when the weaponry consisted of spears: now they're not supposed to fight the pig, back then they were. So it's not even necessarily the same kind of dog; being dumb enough to assault several hundred kilos of pissed-off tusked muscle isn't a plus any more.

Last edited by Nava; 07-25-2013 at 09:04 PM..
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  #7  
Old 07-26-2013, 09:57 AM
robert_columbia robert_columbia is offline
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Originally Posted by Mops View Post
Generally in German composite nouns the first part specifies the second - a noun1noun2 is a type of noun2 described by noun1 (and takes the gender from noun2). So a schweinehund is a hund (and takes the male gender from hund rather than the neuter gender from schwein)....
Grammatically, this is known as noun buildup or noun stacking and is a feature of some (all?) Germanic languages. English, as a fellow West Germanic language and sister to German, does the same thing, except it puts spaces between the constituent words, so "Schweinhund" is more or less the same thing as "pig dog". If you want to use English words that are cognate to the German ones, you could say "swine hound".
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  #8  
Old 07-26-2013, 04:16 PM
ouryL ouryL is offline
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No odder than Dachshund - Badger dog.
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  #9  
Old 07-26-2013, 04:22 PM
Gatopescado Gatopescado is offline
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Originally Posted by ouryL View Post
No odder than Dachshund - Badger dog.
We don't have any Dachs here, so mine are Shizenhunds (spelling?), thanks to the cat.
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  #10  
Old 10-05-2013, 10:05 PM
thestockdogcompany thestockdogcompany is offline
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pig dogs..........

We have a friend in Germany that sends us Westerwalder Kuhe hunde's. Cow dogs from Westerwald. They are cattle herding dogs.

It's a pig dog. A pig herding dog. Like this.

http://youtu.be/Fndz2tyAbOY
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  #11  
Old 10-05-2013, 10:10 PM
njtt njtt is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by t-bonham@scc.net View Post
Hunting wild boars is quite dangerous
In more ways than you might think!
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  #12  
Old 10-06-2013, 07:17 AM
monavis monavis is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by astro View Post
Wiktionary says it's literally "pig-dog" AKA bastard but I would imagine it has a more contextual meaning than that in German.

Is it a dog like a pig, or pig like a dog?
My mother came from Germany and said it meant pigs rear!
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  #13  
Old 10-06-2013, 07:52 AM
Kobal2 Kobal2 is online now
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Originally Posted by Gatopescado View Post
We don't have any Dachs here, so mine are Shizenhunds (spelling?), thanks to the cat.
The plural of "Hund" is "Hunde"* for starters, not "Hunds". Also, if you're trying to say what I think you are, the word is Scheie** (or Scheisse), not Shize. It's a hard S too, there's no z sound in there.

Finally, in my experience all dogs are Scheiehunde

* well, technically it depends on the grammatical role played by the dogs in the sentence. But word definitions are typically given using the nominative, so.
** Which, interestingly, has apparently no plural. I guess Germans can't give two shits .
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  #14  
Old 10-06-2013, 08:16 AM
Bosda Di'Chi of Tricor Bosda Di'Chi of Tricor is offline
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Meta-Question: Should Insult Origin Threads belong in the BBQ Pit?
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"He is an abomination of science that curdles the milk of all honest men!"~~One Dr Chouteh, possibly commenting on Bosda Di'Chi.Or not.
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  #15  
Old 10-06-2013, 09:47 AM
Ulfreida Ulfreida is offline
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Boarhound.

In the US dogs are used to track and 'bay up' feral pigs, which are a significant problem, tearing up cropland and forest. They are indeed dangerous, and courage is an essential in what we call hog dogs out here. In the South they developed breeds for this, which double as wild cattle gatherers -- it's an actual occupation here, retrieving cattle that have gone feral, as well as clearing out wild pig infestations. Catahoula Cow Hog Dogs are the most common breed, part of a group of breeds called Cur Dogs (no slur intended, these are carefully bred dogs).
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  #16  
Old 10-06-2013, 07:25 PM
Trinopus Trinopus is offline
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Just thinking of "Major" the Pig Dog from "Footrot Flats." A dog you do not want to mess with!
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  #17  
Old 10-07-2013, 04:32 PM
The Stafford Cripps The Stafford Cripps is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robert_columbia View Post
English ... does the same thing, except it puts spaces between the constituent words, so "Schweinhund" is more or less the same thing as "pig dog".
Not necessarily - you get sheepdogs, foxhounds, fishermen, footballs, arseholes, seagulls etc etc in English.
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  #18  
Old 10-07-2013, 05:45 PM
CarnalK CarnalK is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by t-bonham@scc.net View Post
Hunting wild boars is quite dangerous; it's not unheard of for one or more of the dogs to be injured or killed in the hunt.

So you don't use your valuable, trained hunting dogs for this; rather it's unproven young dogs or older but unreliable ones ("expendable") that are used as schweinehunds.
Do you have some basis for this? It's sounds a little "out of your ass", or as we say in German "assengroppengehagen".

Last edited by CarnalK; 10-07-2013 at 05:45 PM..
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  #19  
Old 10-07-2013, 05:45 PM
t-bonham@scc.net t-bonham@scc.net is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robert_columbia View Post
English ... does the same thing, except it puts spaces between the constituent words,
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Stafford Cripps View Post
Not necessarily - you get sheepdogs, foxhounds, fishermen, footballs, arseholes, seagulls etc etc in English.
Actually, English moves in a progression from separate words/phrases to abbreviated or hyphenated words to a compound word.
Thus to the morrow becomes to morrow then becomes to-morrow then tomorrow.
Or electronic mail becomes electronic-mail becomes e-mail becomes email.

And sometimes words stop in the process, and stay hyphenated. Following the rule that there are no absolute rules in English!
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  #20  
Old 10-07-2013, 05:53 PM
robert_columbia robert_columbia is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by t-bonham@scc.net View Post
Actually, English moves in a progression from separate words/phrases to abbreviated or hyphenated words to a compound word.
Thus to the morrow becomes to morrow then becomes to-morrow then tomorrow.
Or electronic mail becomes electronic-mail becomes e-mail becomes email.

And sometimes words stop in the process, and stay hyphenated. Following the rule that there are no absolute rules in English!
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Stafford Cripps View Post
Not necessarily - you get sheepdogs, foxhounds, fishermen, footballs, arseholes, seagulls etc etc in English.
However, we seem to start with multiple word noun buildup. The famous "cat memes" on teh internets haven't gotten to the point where we call them "catmemes", but the day might come.
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  #21  
Old 10-07-2013, 06:03 PM
norqdo norqdo is offline
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No, no, no, no, no.
The answer is in German grammar.
(Stealing this from my German friend of a friend when this question arose 20 yrs ago)
Two nouns side by side form a compound noun.
Pig first, dog second, means the pig owns the dog. In English we would say "you are a pig's dog." (schweinhund)

Dog first, pig second (hundschwein) would mean the dog owns the pig.



great insult as it means you are so low that you are below a pig. you are the dog the pig owns.
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  #22  
Old 10-07-2013, 06:17 PM
norqdo norqdo is offline
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[QUOTE=Mops;16512039]Generally in German composite nouns the first part specifies the second - a noun1noun2 is a type of noun2 described by noun1 (and takes the gender from noun2). So a schweinehund is a hund (and takes the male gender from hund rather than the neuter gender from schwein).

you don't give the point of this grammar lesson. I will provide it. "described by noun1" means noun1 is the adjective describing the second noun. Pig's dog. The first noun owns the second. Insults compete with other insults for describing how low you are. You are beneath a pig (the generally lowest insult)...you are the dog owned by the pig. (Normally dogs "own" pigs by hunting them and conquerieng them. this insult is reaaaaalllly low).

Possessive adjective equals first noun in a compound german noun. second noun is the thing we are describing.
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  #23  
Old 10-07-2013, 11:25 PM
Ulfreida Ulfreida is offline
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I was wrong. It's some kind of german insult. Perhaps like most insults not necessarily exact or literal.
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  #24  
Old 10-08-2013, 03:54 AM
t-bonham@scc.net t-bonham@scc.net is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by t-bonham@scc.net View Post
Hunting wild boars is quite dangerous; it's not unheard of for one or more of the dogs to be injured or killed in the hunt.

So you don't use your valuable, trained hunting dogs for this; rather it's unproven young dogs or older but unreliable ones ("expendable") that are used as schweinehunds.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CarnalK View Post
Do you have some basis for this? It's sounds a little "out of your ass", or as we say in German "assengroppengehagen".
It was told to me years ago by a professional dog trainer. I didn't ask him for any details about it, because it seemed to make perfect sense to me. I have no personal experience with boar hunting!
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  #25  
Old 10-08-2013, 08:16 AM
CarnalK CarnalK is offline
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It's just that I can't see anything that singles out "expendable" dogs from the other hunting dogs. Took a look at a couple of linguistics/etymology forums and no distinction is made: dogs used to hunt boar were all called "schweinehunds". My own take on it was always that calling someone a dog is bad enough, but a dog that hunts the lowly pig is worse. But that is just my impression.
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