One of my best and oldest friends has two Lhasa Apsos. They are cute and lively little puppies, but they bark, jump at me and tug at my clothes from the moment I get into her house. It’s getting that I don’t know what to wear when I go to her place: they’ve torn two of my favorite linen blouses, one pair of expensive silk pants, and a skirt. When she says she’s sorry they tore the item, in order that she not feel bad, I always say that it’s just old clothing. It isn’t true, but I don’t want her to feel bad.
Still, I’m reaching the point where I dread going to visit her.
I used to have dogs, and I never allowed them to jump on anyone, but I think she would be hurt if I disciplined them in front of her (as in scold, turn my back and ignore them). Has anyone faced this type of thing, and, if so, how did you handle it?
I would stop going to visit her at all and instead invite her either to my own home or a public place (out for coffee, whatever).
I really don’t like pets at all though. I especially don’t like pets that jump and I certainly wouldn’t tolerate having my clothing ruined from going over there.
Sounds like someone, not you, needs to step up and take command of the pack.
If watching way too many episodes of Cesar Milan has taught me anything, it’s that the humans need to be the undisputed bosses of the animals in the household. If the dogs are habitually taking initiative, and the owners are always responding to these initiatives, then the owners are no longer the bosses. Some training for both the owners and the dogs would seem to be in order.
If the dogs are damaging your belongings, and it makes inconvenience for you, you should definitely be compensated.
And another point. I think this is where our perceptions of dog behaviour mislead us. We may think of a dog jumping up as only “he’s happy to see us”, but if the dog is actually trying to establish dominance, and we respond as if to human psychology rather than dog psychology, then signals are crossed. We think one thing is happening; the dog thinks another thing is happening; and nothing is truly settled.
Not sure what you can do short of not putting yourself in the same space as the dogs.
If your friendship is strong enough, perhaps a little heart to heart with the dog owner about why you would rather not visit her home. Maybe she doesn’t realize what a PITA the dogs are being. We adopted two rescue Schipperkes many moons ago (both dogs have passed), and they were holy terrors when we had visitors. To the point where we just stopped inviting friends over. Finally we admitted to ourselves that we needed professional help, and called in a dog trainer. Within a couple of weeks we had two of the most well behaved dogs you can imagine.
An honest straightforward conversation may help your friend face up to something.
I wouldn’t visit that person at their home anymore or I’d wear some sturdy work clothes, maybe overalls.
I’m a dog owner and I dread visiting certain friends with ill-behaved dogs. Some of the dogs like to poke me with their cold, wet nose under that table - that’s annoying but I can live with it. Some like to jump up and that is unforgivable in anything other than a puppy. I have to wonder what the owers are thinking as I spin around trying to avoid their pet. Are they so used to the jumping and clawing that they think it’s normal for everyone? Ruined clothes the owner should immedately apologize and offer to pay for.
Why can’t you just tell your friend it bothers you? Just say, “Please don’t let the dogs jump on me.” Don’t spare her feelings. You have as much right to your own feelings. Don’t make excuses for an ill-mannered dog owner.
Stop saying, “Oh, it’s okay, these are only old clothes” when you go visit. I have a little dog and jumping is the one thing we haven’t been completely able to break her of at this point. It isn’t because of lack of trying on our part but instead because every time she jumps on someone and we say no and force her to sit the person she jumped on automatically interrupts our training attempts and says, “Oh, it’s okay!” and leans down and pets her. :smack: So she thinks that jumping is perfectly okay and that she will, in fact, be rewarded for jumping on people even though we are very clear about no jumping. You can see it in her behavior, too. She gets low to the ground and her whole body shakes while she is looking back and forth between us and the potential jumpee trying to determine whether it is worth getting told no to get this new person to bend over and pet her.
You’ve got a perfect segueway with how you handled it before.
“Hey Jenn, when I stop by tomorrow I’m going to be in my work clothes. I really don’t want you to think I don’t want to see you, because I do, but I’m a little concerned because I know you’re still in the training phase with Miffy and Puffy and last time they tore my t-shirt, which was no big deal because it was old, but this time I don’t have time to change. Can you maybe put them outside/upstairs/in their kennel when I stop by? I’d hate to have anything happen and I know you would too!”
This is a major pet peeve of mine. I like and own dogs but I despise those that aren’t well-trained, and most of all the owners who think it’s somehow acceptable that their dogs are a destructive nuisance.
In your case, because you want to be nice and don’t want to make her feel bad, I’d just stop visiting the house. If you’re feeling particularly brave, let her know it’s because of the dogs, or ask that she puts the dogs away while you visit.
If it were me though, I’d loudly and sternly NO the dogs and knock them off me roughly with my knee until they understood I do not tolerate such misbehavior. If the owner is offended by me disiplining their precious snookums so they do not hurt me or tear my clothing, they can kiss my ass.
Thanks for your advice. BTW, I may try to spare my friend’s feelings, but I don’t pet the dogs or interact with them. I don’t want the dogs to be petted while they’re misbehaving.
I’ve told her that I don’t like them jumping on me, but they don’t listen to her at all when she says no. She’ll pull one off me, and he comes right back. I mentioned that for a large dog, there would be no tolerance of his kind of behaviour at all. (The dogs I had throughout my life were a Labrador Retriever, a Saint-Bernard, and an English Mastiff). They knew their place in the household, and they did not jump on people or bark for no serious reason.
I may have to have a heart-to-heart with her about them. I’ve seen a lot more of her than usual these last two years. She’s had a double mastectomy and reconstructive surgery. She now has a lump on her thyroid (no results yet for this), so I guess I’ll postpone the talk somewhat. She adores those dogs and they really are the bosses in that place.
I guess I should go to Sally Ann and get some special visit-the-friend-with-dogs clothes.
And while I don’t dispute that humans and dogs can miscommunicate, I agree with newer thinking on dominance in dogs – that it is misunderstood and way overdiagnosed. See Dr. Sophia Yin’s page for a fairly detailed discussion of “the dominance controversy.”
I don’t have good recommendations for what someone can do with* somebody else’s* dogs, but perhaps the OP could gently suggest that the dogs would be even more adorable with a bit of training, and then point the errant friend toward positive-discipline websites to begin learning what’s involved, and maybe even search for professional help, i.e. a trainer or even a behaviorist (Dr. Yin’s might be a good start. I also like Dr. Ian Dunbar and Victoria Stilwell.)
[Personal note: I’m recommending those sites for their positive, dog-friendly messages, and because they’re detailed enough to provide a lot of reading material and links. I recognize they’re a tad commercialized. If you or your friend find that off-putting, by all means look for smaller local trainers with similar ideas about reward-based, not dominance-based or punishment-based, techniques.]
Thank you,** Sailboat,** for the reading. I’ll be browsing around those sites for a while. I like the suggestion that dogs would be even more adorable with a bit of training…
Thank you to every one of you who has taken the time to read and respond.
My suggestion would be that you speak to your friend and ask her to put the dogs in another room when you come to visit. I have a pile of dogs and wouldn’t be offended if someone made this request of me. In fact, our border collie jumped up on my mother during one visit, so now she gets put away routinely during my mother’s visits, at least until her initial agitation wears off.
There’s nothing insulting about wanting to concentrate on your conversation with your friend during your visit rather than paying attention to her dogs.
I too, have a friend with out of control dogs. Her dogs, however, are big and bite. They’ve been banned from local off leash areas for fighting. Her sister has asked her not to visit because she fears for her childerns’ safety.
She is now my telephone friend.
I admit, I’m afraid of most dogs, but her’s give me good reason.
We very occasionally meet for coffee, but I choose the place, always one’s that don’t allow pets. I miss seeing her, but I’ll not risk my safety.
I think you should stop telling your friend that it’s ok for the dogs to jump all over you and that clothes they are damaging are old and it doesn’t matter.
She’s your friend… you don’t have to be as nasty as my friend, who after eating my food, drinking my wine and enjoying my hospitality turned to me and said with complete sincerity that he hated my dog. Then repeated it. Not surprisingly, I haven’t felt any desire to entertain him since. But there’s no reasonfor you not to say to your friend, gently and kindly, that you know she adores her dogs, but that you do not want them jumping on you, that you don’t want them damaging any more of your clothes and that maybe she could leash them up/crate them/put them outside/make sure they’ve had a long walk and are not so hyper - do something, anything for better control when you come over.
Lhasas are notoriously difficult dogs. They look cute and fluffy but behaviorally, they are bullies and criminal masterminds. Also, they’re jaws are huge under all that fur. I’ve had two, and while I like the breed, I don’t recommend them as pets. Your friend and her dogs need professional help and, until they get it, she needs to kennel the dogs away where they can’t hurt visitors.
If for some reason you can’t avoid them, your best approach is to be remote with the dogs. Don’t fuss or talk to them. Speak to them only in a firm tone of voice. Don’t reach for them or pet them.
I agree that there’s a limited amount you can do about training someone else’s dog but you don’t have to let them maul you, either. If they move to jump at you - stand up or step forward. You don’t want to kick them but if you move toward them, you throw off their aim and they’ll bounce off your shins.
Wait a few minutes before you sit down until the dogs are calmer and everyone has said hello. Don’t bend over towards them. Ignore them until they’re calm and then sit down. If they jump at you then, stand up, confusing their aim, and tell them “No! Down!” in a firm deep voice. Then ignore them again.
And don’t feel shy about handing your friend the bill for any future item her dogs destroy. She should have offered to replace them in the first place.
