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  #1  
Old 09-04-2013, 04:27 AM
CairoCarol CairoCarol is offline
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Northwestern Mutual, you suck

I have yet to encounter an insurance company that wasn't sleazy. Northwestern Mutual, with whom I have recently had the displeasure to deal, has reaffirmed this view.

The story is pretty simple. My mother recently died, leaving a $65,000 insurance policy to my son, who is 15. At first, all seemed well - I called NM, they noted that the beneficiary is a minor, and promised to send me the paperwork needed for us to put the funds into an account that he can access at 18. My husband talked to our financial advisor, who set up an account to receive the money and hold it for my son until he is of age.

Hubby dutifully filled out the NM forms, including giving the account information for the newly established account, and sent the forms back to NM.

Do you think Northwestern Mutual then sent the funds to my son's account? No, of course not!

Instead, they told us that we had to go to a US state court and get a legal ruling proving that my husband and I are the guardians of our son. (Mind you, he's the biological son of us both, both our names are listed on his birth certificate, he resides in the same house with both of us, we pay all his bills, etc. etc. - all things we could submit paperwork to prove, if necessary.)

Pressed to explain why we had to find a court to declare us, the parents he has spent his entire life with, as his actual guardians, NM insisted that "it's the law" but despite repeated requests (and I promise you, we were nice about it), they never were able to find this mystery law.

Setting aside the time and effort associated with going to court for this, we don't live in the US (we are US citizens, but residents of Indonesia), and have no standing in any US state court. However, NM will not accept a notarized affidavit from our US embassy stating that we are our son's legal guardians. According to NM, there is no alternative to papers from a state court in the US.

NM went so far as to insinuate, in writing, that they have checked Indonesia's laws and that the same rules would apply. (Sure you did, folks. I'm sure you have several staff members fluent in Indonesian and capable of doing legal research on Indonesian laws.)

Meanwhile, our financial advisor expressed amazement. He has set up similar accounts for his own children twice, and in neither case was he asked to provide guardianship paperwork.

Of course, there is an easy solution to this problem: NM will keep the money for our son until he turns 18, or so they say. They just will not let us set up an account for him that is in the same place as the rest of our money.

Fine, whatever. I'd like to fight them on this, but it's just not worth it. They know that, of course, which is why they are perfectly content to stonewall us with regard to the law they insist exists but cannot provide to us.

So, admitting defeat, last night my husband called to ask them about how to fill out the forms a second time, but this time directing NM to keep the money for my son. (Apparently, something on the form about how to do this was unclear, and he wanted to know which box to check.)

Guess what? Now that the money will stay with NM, all obstacles have miraculously vanished. We don't even need to re-send the forms. They were willing to accept a verbal direction over the phone from my husband, despite the fact that the only written forms they have from him explicitly state something different than what we are now asking them to do.

Nice going, NM! I sure believe that you guys are trustworthy now. It's about 2 years and 6 months until my son turns 18. We'll have that money out of your hands immediately, as fast as we can get the paperwork filled out and overcome whatever stupid obstacles you figure out to put in our sonís way then.

I know this isn't much of a story, but I feel better having added just one little contribution to the internet explaining what scum insurance companies are. Scum. Assholes. Villains. Liars. Eeeevvvviiilllll.
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  #2  
Old 09-04-2013, 06:53 AM
Uber_the_Goober Uber_the_Goober is offline
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And what written assurances do you have that NM will pay out upon your son's 18th?

Sounds flaky to me, unless I saw it in writing from them. And I'm willing to bet there will be a bigger and worse fight in the future if "verbal directive" is all you've got. Verbal agreements aren't worth shit in any court, anywhere, anytime.

2.5 years is enough time for all involved parties to forget the verbal agreement, for the person with whom it is made to be fired, for their policies to change, or for the TRUE policy of unclaimed money to take effect wherein they don't have to pay out.

Insurance companies are perfectly predictable. They will fight tooth and nail, sometimes illegally, to avoid paying out any money.
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  #3  
Old 09-04-2013, 07:29 AM
Zakalwe Zakalwe is offline
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I agree with Uber, if you leave it at this point, your son will never see a dime.

Call the Dept. of Insurance in the home state of Northwestern Mutual and in the state where the policy was sold and file a formal complaint.
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  #4  
Old 09-04-2013, 08:06 AM
Steophan Steophan is online now
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Originally Posted by CairoCarol View Post
Nice going, NM! I sure believe that you guys are trustworthy now. It's about 2 years and 6 months until my son turns 18. We'll have that money out of your hands immediately, as fast as we can get the paperwork filled out and overcome whatever stupid obstacles you figure out to put in our sonís way then.
I hope you meant he'll have it out of their hands then. It's not your money, and the only right you have to it is to hold it in trust for your son. If the insurance company has any doubts about that (and your post suggests strongly that you think it's yours), they are right to hold it until he's 18.
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  #5  
Old 09-04-2013, 09:27 AM
elninost0rm elninost0rm is offline
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I hope you meant he'll have it out of their hands then. It's not your money, and the only right you have to it is to hold it in trust for your son. If the insurance company has any doubts about that (and your post suggests strongly that you think it's yours), they are right to hold it until he's 18.
Oh please.

I'm sure by saying "we'll" she clearly meant that they intend on purchasing a new yacht or something once he turns 18.

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  #6  
Old 09-04-2013, 10:58 AM
The Great Sun Jester The Great Sun Jester is offline
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So...can't set up a trust account for your kid in the state where the policy was issued? Barring some Dept of Homeland Security BS it should be easy enough to do from abroad. Might cost you a few hundred bucks for a family lawyer to do it but it might also save you a lot of stress.
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Originally Posted by Zakalwe View Post
Call the Dept. of Insurance in the home state of Northwestern Mutual and in the state where the policy was sold and file a formal complaint.
This. They may actually be in perfect alignment with the laws and regulations governing the contract and the state in which it was issued so if you don't love it you can shove it. BUT you are owed a competent explanation including book chapter and verse citation of the applicable law. Indonesian law is moot in this circumstance because the contract wasn't written there.

And get the agreement from the insurance company in writing or it didn't happen.

Any time I've heard of a life insurance company "holding onto the money for you" it involves them paying you some kind of ridiculous high savings account interest rate (7%?). Any words on that, or are they holding your son's money without paying interest?
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  #7  
Old 09-04-2013, 11:04 AM
Zakalwe Zakalwe is offline
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Originally Posted by The Great Sun Jester View Post
Any time I've heard of a life insurance company "holding onto the money for you" it involves them paying you some kind of ridiculous high savings account interest rate (7%?). Any words on that, or are they holding your son's money without paying interest?
Actually, I'd be more worried about the opposite, an administrative *charge* that will eat into the money.
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  #8  
Old 09-04-2013, 11:14 AM
The Great Sun Jester The Great Sun Jester is offline
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Nah, that particular evil act is purely a bank thing. The goblins are very protective of that right and will not suffer the practice to exist in insurance industry.
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  #9  
Old 09-04-2013, 11:20 AM
Dinsdale Dinsdale is offline
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What they said - get in writing the insurance they are going to pay your son, the lack of any service charges, AND file written complaints with everyone imaginable. For the price of a few stamps you reinforce your son's position sould NM be jerks in the future, AND you potetially cause them a bit of hassle in return.
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  #10  
Old 09-04-2013, 11:39 AM
Czarcasm Czarcasm is online now
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Please tell me you had a lawyer go over any forms before your husband filled them out, and that you kept a copy.
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  #11  
Old 09-04-2013, 12:18 PM
CairoCarol CairoCarol is offline
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Originally Posted by Czarcasm View Post
Please tell me you had a lawyer go over any forms before your husband filled them out, and that you kept a copy.
Indeed. My husband is an attorney, fortunately.

For Steophan, who may be the only person in this thread who seems to think I want to steal my son's money:

I do think that it is entirely believable that there is a law regarding proof of guardianship. I don't even have a problem with it - in this era of nasty divorces, I can believe an unscrupulous parent might sleazily try to get the money inappropriately. So if there is a law, there's a law. That's not my objection. My objections are:

1. They said nothing until the forms were already submitted about this law.
2. When asked for the law, they couldn't provide it
3. They would not accept a notarized affidavit from the US Embassy that we are the guardians of my son.
4. Their mysterious insistence on us proving that we are our son's guardians vanished as soon as my husband said they could keep the money for our son.

To all who say I need to get something in writing from NM, thank you. I think that's very sound advice.

Last edited by CairoCarol; 09-04-2013 at 12:19 PM..
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  #12  
Old 09-04-2013, 01:34 PM
Really Not All That Bright Really Not All That Bright is offline
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Originally Posted by Zakalwe View Post
Call the Dept. of Insurance in the home state of Northwestern Mutual and in the state where the policy was sold and file a formal complaint.
This.

Last edited by Really Not All That Bright; 09-04-2013 at 01:35 PM..
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  #13  
Old 09-04-2013, 02:04 PM
Cat Whisperer Cat Whisperer is offline
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I also agree with Uber - this is ringing all kinds of alarm bells for me, and I wouldn't rest until the money was in an account under my son's name, not with the lying, scamming insurance company.
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  #14  
Old 09-04-2013, 02:15 PM
Heropsychodreamer Heropsychodreamer is offline
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NWM is one of the most highly regarded life insurance companies as well as one of the most financially stable companies in the world. I am pretty confident they would hold that $65K in an interest bearing account for your son.
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  #15  
Old 09-04-2013, 02:17 PM
Procrustus Procrustus is offline
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Originally Posted by Heropsychodreamer View Post
NWM is one of the most highly regarded life insurance companies as well as one of the most financially stable companies in the world. I am pretty confident they would hold that $65K in an interest bearing account for your son.
Yes. But they're getting worse. If you have disability insurance with them, you're much more likely to get treated poorly than you would have 10 years ago. I agree that the $65k is probably safe, and you'll get monthly (or quarterly) statements showing it's sitting in an account earning interest.
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  #16  
Old 09-04-2013, 02:25 PM
Czarcasm Czarcasm is online now
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Originally Posted by Heropsychodreamer View Post
NWM is one of the most highly regarded life insurance companies as well as one of the most financially stable companies in the world. I am pretty confident they would hold that $65K in an interest bearing account for your son.
Are you as confident that it is their money to hold?
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  #17  
Old 09-04-2013, 02:36 PM
DMC DMC is offline
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They quite possibly suck sweaty monkey balls (I've never dealt with them), but that doesn't change the fact that they have my favorite corporate theme music.
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  #18  
Old 09-04-2013, 02:52 PM
Heropsychodreamer Heropsychodreamer is offline
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Are you as confident that it is their money to hold?
Without the forms they require to release it, yes. The forms may be an incredible hassle, but each and every legal form is because somebody, at some point, tried to get away with something illegal.
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Old 09-05-2013, 06:44 AM
CairoCarol CairoCarol is offline
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Without the forms they require to release it, yes. The forms may be an incredible hassle, but each and every legal form is because somebody, at some point, tried to get away with something illegal.
We filled out and returned the forms they asked for. Only after they read those forms and noticed that we were going to move the funds to a new location did they suddenly remember this "law" that they are sure exists, but can't seem to actually find and quote to us.

Truly, I have no problem with a requirement that we somehow establish some legitimacy. In fact I've been a bit startled at how easy one or two processes are (or at least they seem to be - nothing's done yet so maybe glitches will arise later) to move other pieces of my mother's estate directly to me. (Don't worry Steophan - my mother wanted me to have them. I'm not stealing my son's stuff again.)

The problem is not that NW has a legitimate request and I'm being an asshole by refusing to cooperate. The problem is that NW is citing a mystery law and refusing to work with me on a reasonable solution. Believe me, it's a BIG hassle for me to get a notarized statement from the US embassy - it costs me $50 and a half day of my time. But I'd be willing to do it.

What exactly do you think I'm supposed to do here, Heropsychodreamer? Move to the US, leaving behind my job and my entire life, just so I can have standing in a US court? Please do tell me what solution you propose.

Last edited by CairoCarol; 09-05-2013 at 06:47 AM..
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  #20  
Old 09-05-2013, 07:45 AM
Steophan Steophan is online now
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I'm sure you're not trying to steal your son's money, but the laws and regulations exist to protect both the children of less scrupulous parents and the insurance companies, who would be liable if they gave the money to people who aren't entitled to it.

I have no idea what your problem is with them keeping the money until he's 18, rather than a different financial institution doing so. But hey, if it makes you happy to assume they're trying to steal his money, and that any questions about what you're doing are accusations, go for it.
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Old 09-05-2013, 08:08 AM
Frank Frank is offline
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I have no idea what your problem is with them keeping the money until he's 18,...
It's not the insurance company's money. It's the OP's son's money.

I guarantee you that they will make more income off holding that money than they would pay in interest--that's their vested interest in holding on to it. Why shouldn't the boy be making that income while the money is held in trust in his own account?
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  #22  
Old 09-05-2013, 09:25 AM
Really Not All That Bright Really Not All That Bright is offline
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...each and every legal form is because somebody, at some point, tried to get away with something illegal.
Bullshit.
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  #23  
Old 09-05-2013, 09:43 AM
Labrador Deceiver Labrador Deceiver is online now
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Originally Posted by Heropsychodreamer View Post
NWM is one of the most highly regarded life insurance companies as well as one of the most financially stable companies in the world. I am pretty confident they would hold that $65K in an interest bearing account for your son.
Not really. They're generally regarded as pushing whole-life products that are abnormally high for the industry. And whole-life sucks ass anyway.
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  #24  
Old 09-05-2013, 10:00 AM
LavenderBlue LavenderBlue is offline
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You can't be too careful with banks and minors. I set up a savings account for my eldest daughter with Bank of America. Those assholes treated the account as a regular savings account and started stealing fifteen bucks a month from her because they filed a wrong form. It took me three visits and several months to get them to refund the money.

I am sorry about your mom's passing although I know your feelings about her are mixed at best.
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Old 09-05-2013, 10:36 AM
Heropsychodreamer Heropsychodreamer is offline
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What exactly do you think I'm supposed to do here, Heropsychodreamer? Move to the US, leaving behind my job and my entire life, just so I can have standing in a US court? Please do tell me what solution you propose.
I don't work for NWM, nor do I know enough about what is going on to give you a good answer, but based on this thread I would either, let NWM hold it until he turns 18 then have him claim it, or call the state insurance department. They take most phone calls very seriously (at least in my state).

Really Not All that Bright - ok, maybe not each and every, but most of them.

Labrador - WL does not suck ass. Maybe for you, but there are certainly many situations where it is the better product for somebody. The one size fits philosophy of only buying term is bad advice.
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Old 09-05-2013, 11:51 AM
Really Not All That Bright Really Not All That Bright is offline
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Fair enough then.
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This can only end in tears.
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  #27  
Old 09-05-2013, 11:55 AM
Labrador Deceiver Labrador Deceiver is online now
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Labrador - WL does not suck ass. Maybe for you, but there are certainly many situations where it is the better product for somebody. The one size fits philosophy of only buying term is bad advice.
Bull. Its a good choice for a very small subset of the population. Most people who buy it are given a snow job, don't understand how investing works, or have no idea how much term they can get for the same price.

Last edited by Labrador Deceiver; 09-05-2013 at 11:57 AM..
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  #28  
Old 09-05-2013, 12:07 PM
DrDeth DrDeth is offline
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Originally Posted by Heropsychodreamer View Post
NWM is one of the most highly regarded life insurance companies as well as one of the most financially stable companies in the world. I am pretty confident they would hold that $65K in an interest bearing account for your son.
Well, this thread seems to show otherwise, since they are making up "laws' and refusing to pay out.

My Bro, who worked for the IRS for 20 years sez there is no such law.
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  #29  
Old 09-05-2013, 02:43 PM
Jackmannii Jackmannii is offline
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Originally Posted by Zakalwe View Post
Call the Dept. of Insurance in the home state of Northwestern Mutual and in the state where the policy was sold and file a formal complaint.
Yes.

And it's worth a try beforehand to get an attorney with knowledge of state laws applicable in this situation to write a letter to the insurance company informing them that unless funds are released to you there will be 1) a complaint to the state, and 2) legal action.

It wouldn't surprise me if they then discovered that why yes, they can legally release the money to you.
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  #30  
Old 09-05-2013, 04:13 PM
The Great Sun Jester The Great Sun Jester is offline
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...get an attorney with knowledge of state laws applicable in this situation to write a letter to the insurance company informing them that unless funds are released to you there will be 1) a complaint to the state, and 2) legal action.
1) Insurance companies don't make decisions based on the threat of legal action; 2) a (ethical) lawyer with the requisite knowledge would operate within the appropriate legal framework to either get you what you want, or explain to you why what you're asking is not possible. And if it turns out the company in question is in fact breaking the law, (s)he'd facilitate your suit of the company for damages far exceeding the death benefit of your paltry life insurance policy.
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  #31  
Old 09-05-2013, 09:12 PM
CairoCarol CairoCarol is offline
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I'm sure you're not trying to steal your son's money, but the laws and regulations exist to protect both the children of less scrupulous parents and the insurance companies, who would be liable if they gave the money to people who aren't entitled to it.

I have no idea what your problem is with them keeping the money until he's 18, rather than a different financial institution doing so. But hey, if it makes you happy to assume they're trying to steal his money, and that any questions about what you're doing are accusations, go for it.
It would make me happy if they would apply the same standards of care to EVERYTHING they do, instead of having a double standard. Did you notice the difference in their response:

1. I want to move the funds (which I am entitled to do, by the way; I am the executor of my mother's estate) to a special account set up for my son = NOOOOO! WE NEED UNREASONABLE PAPERWORK.

2. I want to leave the money with Northwestern = okay, sure, we'll accept a VERBAL notification from your husband (not even the executor of the estate, and just some male voice as far as they know) that these are your wishes, even though we have paperwork in our possession stating the opposite.

I don't think they are trying to "steal" the money outright, but I do think they are "stealing" the right to keep the money so that it is in their portfolio instead of where it would be in the best interests of my son to put it.
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Old 09-05-2013, 09:22 PM
CairoCarol CairoCarol is offline
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To all of the posters suggesting I go after NM - in theory, I completely agree, and I also thank you for the support - a little shared indignation is always a day-brightener!

But one does have to pick one's battles. My mother left her estate in a little bit of disarray (not too bad, I'm not really complaining - but let's just say it is taking a bit of work to sort things out) and I'm a bit overworked at the moment. If I didn't have other things on my plate, I'd go after them relentlessly. However, the cost would fall mostly on me, in terms of stress, time, phone calls, paying an attorney, etc. There are other things that need my attention more than this matter does. So, as much as I might enjoy hassling them, I'm not going to.

Last edited by CairoCarol; 09-05-2013 at 09:23 PM..
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Old 09-05-2013, 10:36 PM
Saint Cad Saint Cad is offline
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Here's a question. What if you're son filled out the paperwork to get HIS* money. How could NM stonewall that. If NW keeps the money they will charge you up the ass.

But let me ask a question, what does the executor or probate court have to say about this? Isn't it their job to make NM pay up?


*Like Steophan I'm not accusing you of trying to steal the money but I technically and legally it is his and so NM loses that opportunity to come up with an excuse to hold his money.

ETA: Just saw you're the executrix. I say you file a motion with the court ordering them to pay out.

Last edited by Saint Cad; 09-05-2013 at 10:38 PM..
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  #34  
Old 09-06-2013, 07:26 AM
CairoCarol CairoCarol is offline
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Here's a question. What if you're son filled out the paperwork to get HIS* money. How could NM stonewall that. If NW keeps the money they will charge you up the ass.

But let me ask a question, what does the executor or probate court have to say about this? Isn't it their job to make NM pay up?


*Like Steophan I'm not accusing you of trying to steal the money but I technically and legally it is his and so NM loses that opportunity to come up with an excuse to hold his money.

ETA: Just saw you're the executrix. I say you file a motion with the court ordering them to pay out.
The paperwork is the same no matter who fills it out. They request information about the beneficiary, including birth date. The forms make clear that minors do not have the power to do anything - the guardian has to sign. So the only difference between my son filling out the forms and a guardian filling out the forms is who provides signatures at the end. If he signs, it isn't valid because he is a minor (I have no problem with this BTW - it seems pretty standard that minors can't sign a lot of legal papers.)

I do appreciate the idea of filing a motion to order them to pay; like I said earlier, it would be a satisfying battle if I had the time.

Last edited by CairoCarol; 09-06-2013 at 07:28 AM..
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Old 09-06-2013, 09:37 AM
muldoonthief muldoonthief is offline
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Originally Posted by Saint Cad View Post
Here's a question. What if you're son filled out the paperwork to get HIS* money. How could NM stonewall that. If NW keeps the money they will charge you up the ass.

But let me ask a question, what does the executor or probate court have to say about this? Isn't it their job to make NM pay up?


*Like Steophan I'm not accusing you of trying to steal the money but I technically and legally it is his and so NM loses that opportunity to come up with an excuse to hold his money.

ETA: Just saw you're the executrix. I say you file a motion with the court ordering them to pay out.
Forgive me if I'm wrong, but I always thought life insurance didn't go through the estate and the executor, unless the estate is listed as a beneficiary. A named beneficiary gets the money without the executor being involved at all.
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  #36  
Old 09-06-2013, 03:10 PM
Fiddle Peghead Fiddle Peghead is offline
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I guarantee you that they will make more income off holding that money than they would pay in interest--that's their vested interest in holding on to it. Why shouldn't the boy be making that income while the money is held in trust in his own account?
The key point of the whole thread. Insurance companies don't give a damn about anything, except making money. Allstate doesn't have "good hands", they have grubby hands. State Farm is not your neighbor, unless it's the one who blasts music at full blast all hours of the night and hasn't mowed their lawn in five years. And Nationwide is decidedly not on your side!
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Old 09-06-2013, 03:45 PM
Kimballkid Kimballkid is offline
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And Nationwide is decidedly not on your side!
They're probably behind me.

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  #38  
Old 09-06-2013, 03:52 PM
Fiddle Peghead Fiddle Peghead is offline
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They're probably behind me.

And I bet I know what they're doing back there.
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  #39  
Old 09-06-2013, 04:21 PM
The Great Sun Jester The Great Sun Jester is offline
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But one does have to pick one's battles. ... So, as much as I might enjoy hassling them, I'm not going to.
Don't be a pussy! You owe it to US to bring the fight to them! Salt their fields, scorch their earth, take off and nuke 'em from orbit! (it's the only way to be sure)

And give us regular updates, you owe us that too, so we can give you more excellent advice. It's in the user agreement. Really. And no, I'm not going to look it up for you.
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Old 09-06-2013, 10:47 PM
Cat Whisperer Cat Whisperer is offline
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Originally Posted by CairoCarol View Post
To all of the posters suggesting I go after NM - in theory, I completely agree, and I also thank you for the support - a little shared indignation is always a day-brightener!

But one does have to pick one's battles. My mother left her estate in a little bit of disarray (not too bad, I'm not really complaining - but let's just say it is taking a bit of work to sort things out) and I'm a bit overworked at the moment. If I didn't have other things on my plate, I'd go after them relentlessly. However, the cost would fall mostly on me, in terms of stress, time, phone calls, paying an attorney, etc. There are other things that need my attention more than this matter does. So, as much as I might enjoy hassling them, I'm not going to.
Fair enough.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Great Sun Jester View Post
Don't be a pussy! You owe it to US to bring the fight to them! Salt their fields, scorch their earth, take off and nuke 'em from orbit! (it's the only way to be sure)

And give us regular updates, you owe us that too, so we can give you more excellent advice. It's in the user agreement. Really. And no, I'm not going to look it up for you.
Yeah!
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  #41  
Old 09-06-2013, 11:43 PM
Antinor01 Antinor01 is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CairoCarol View Post
Indeed. My husband is an attorney, fortunately.

For Steophan, who may be the only person in this thread who seems to think I want to steal my son's money:

I do think that it is entirely believable that there is a law regarding proof of guardianship. I don't even have a problem with it - in this era of nasty divorces, I can believe an unscrupulous parent might sleazily try to get the money inappropriately. So if there is a law, there's a law. That's not my objection. My objections are:

1. They said nothing until the forms were already submitted about this law.
2. When asked for the law, they couldn't provide it
3. They would not accept a notarized affidavit from the US Embassy that we are the guardians of my son.
4. Their mysterious insistence on us proving that we are our son's guardians vanished as soon as my husband said they could keep the money for our son.

To all who say I need to get something in writing from NM, thank you. I think that's very sound advice.
It does suck that you're going through this. To be dealing with all that paperwork after losing a parent is hard. I went through some of it myself helping my Mom when Dad died last year.

That being said, to respond to points 3 and 4;

1. (regarding 3) - With 20 years in the insurance industry, I could understand that there's only certain documents they can accept. I have limited documents I can use to show things like who the officers of a corporation are. Not saying the affidavit isn't a good thing, it just may not be something they can use. Although I would say that a higher level manager may be able to approve that. I don't personally like exceptions, but they aren't that uncommon.

2. (regarding 4) - I don't find it that strange that they would not ask for guardian paperwork any longer. It was only needed as long as you were trying to prove that you could receive the funds on your sons behalf. If (by his statement) you are no longer trying to do so, there's no need to prove that you are his guardian. The only responsibility they have is to release the funds to your son when he turns 18.
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  #42  
Old 09-07-2013, 02:13 AM
Saint Cad Saint Cad is offline
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I think then it's time for you to write a letter CMRRR stating that they have 30 days to turn the money over with veiled threats that maybe if a judge asks them then they can cite this mystery law that they claim exist and that after the 30 days they can explain why they refuse to turn over the money to the insurance commissioner for your state and that it'll be up to the judge to decide how much interest and damages you are owed after they pay your attorney fees and court costs.

Just that one letter should do it.
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  #43  
Old 09-07-2013, 09:32 PM
CairoCarol CairoCarol is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Great Sun Jester View Post
Don't be a pussy! You owe it to US to bring the fight to them! Salt their fields, scorch their earth, take off and nuke 'em from orbit! (it's the only way to be sure)

And give us regular updates, you owe us that too, so we can give you more excellent advice. It's in the user agreement. Really. And no, I'm not going to look it up for you.
Yeah, sure ... you and your mystery laws!

I'll be happy to give updates when and if anything else happens with this matter, though I think they'll be boring. I promise to foam at the mouth with as much self-righteous indignation as I can muster, though. I owe it to Dopers in return for their support in this thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Saint Cade
after the 30 days they can explain why they refuse to turn over the money to the insurance commissioner for your state
See, therein lies the problem. We HAVE no state. If we did, I could get them the papers they want.
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  #44  
Old 09-08-2013, 10:41 AM
Zakalwe Zakalwe is offline
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Actually, you have two states you can use - the one they are in and the one your mom was in. Both of those DOIs have a regulatory relationship with NWM. Use them, they get paid to do exactly this kind of stuff all the time.
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  #45  
Old 09-08-2013, 11:45 AM
Rick Rick is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CairoCarol View Post
Indeed. My husband is an attorney, fortunately.

For Steophan, who may be the only person in this thread who seems to think I want to steal my son's money:

I do think that it is entirely believable that there is a law regarding proof of guardianship. I don't even have a problem with it - in this era of nasty divorces, I can believe an unscrupulous parent might sleazily try to get the money inappropriately. So if there is a law, there's a law. That's not my objection. My objections are:

1. They said nothing until the forms were already submitted about this law.
2. When asked for the law, they couldn't provide it
3. They would not accept a notarized affidavit from the US Embassy that we are the guardians of my son.
4. Their mysterious insistence on us proving that we are our son's guardians vanished as soon as my husband said they could keep the money for our son.

To all who say I need to get something in writing from NM, thank you. I think that's very sound advice.
The problem is the beneficiary is a minor. If NWM gave you the check AND you proceeded to spend it all on hookers and blow, when your son turns 18 he would then sue NWM saying WTF did you give to them for, I'm the beneficiary. Guess who is then on the hook for another 65K? For this reason NWM wants some guarantees that they aren't going to pay 130K out.
Naming a minor as a primary beneficiary is never a good idea. An attorney show know that.
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  #46  
Old 09-08-2013, 05:02 PM
Saint Cad Saint Cad is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zakalwe View Post
Actually, you have two states you can use - the one they are in and the one your mom was in. Both of those DOIs have a regulatory relationship with NWM. Use them, they get paid to do exactly this kind of stuff all the time.
And assuming you kept your state residency for voting purposes there's a third and the Federal government is a fourth.
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  #47  
Old 09-08-2013, 05:04 PM
Saint Cad Saint Cad is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick View Post
The problem is the beneficiary is a minor. If NWM gave you the check AND you proceeded to spend it all on hookers and blow, when your son turns 18 he would then sue NWM saying WTF did you give to them for, I'm the beneficiary. Guess who is then on the hook for another 65K? For this reason NWM wants some guarantees that they aren't going to pay 130K out.
Naming a minor as a primary beneficiary is never a good idea. An attorney show know that.
But they are not going to take possession of the money. My understanding is that it is going straight into an account in the son's name. That's CC's issue. Oh you want us to disburse the funds? Then we're going to ask for impossible paperwork. Oh you want us to keep the money? Then a phone call suffices.
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  #48  
Old 09-08-2013, 05:27 PM
Rick Rick is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saint Cad View Post
But they are not going to take possession of the money. My understanding is that it is going straight into an account in the son's name. That's CC's issue. Oh you want us to disburse the funds? Then we're going to ask for impossible paperwork. Oh you want us to keep the money? Then a phone call suffices.
And the next day the parents spend it all, guess who gets sued in a couple of years? Not the 'rents.
If NWM holds the money until the beneficiary is 18 and they cut a check they are in the clear.
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  #49  
Old 09-08-2013, 08:14 PM
CairoCarol CairoCarol is offline
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Some of the above posts indicate to me that I have not made it clear what we had directed NM to do with the money. An account IN OUR SON'S NAME was set up - the money was not going to be transferred to me, it was being transferred to my son.

Last edited by CairoCarol; 09-08-2013 at 08:14 PM..
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  #50  
Old 09-08-2013, 10:51 PM
The Great Sun Jester The Great Sun Jester is offline
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I'm prolly wrong here, but
1) a bank account is a contract between a financial institution and a person
2) a person must be at least 18 years old (adult) in order to legally enter into a contract
3) a 16 year old is, ergo, legally unable to enter into a contract
4) the financial contract must include a legal adult with authority to act on behalf of the underage person
5) such a trustee must establish legally-recognized authority to act on behalf of the minor
6) Parents are good, but parenthood does not necessarily guarantee parental rights (the rights can be revoked)
7) CairoCarol is pissed off.
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