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  #1  
Old 12-26-2012, 07:04 AM
ghostie ghostie is offline
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Bloodletting

re: http://www.straightdope.com/columns/...h-bloodletting

I think you are completely wrong. Physics tells us that if you reduce pressure then there is no my high pressure.

Drug companies - that's what ceased the basic medical care practice of blootletting - which existed for 2000 years.

The Romans, Greeks, Egyptians, Mayans, Aztecs, etc. etc. practiced simple bloodletting. It's on wikipedia.

I have high blood pressure ... extremely high - and I can tell you that you are wrong.

I am not obese... and I believe in modern technology and modern medicine, but capitalism often gets in the way, doesn't it?

As a student of Physics... if you reduce the pressure on a pipe system by reducing the fluid, then that pipe structure will endure less stress. It does not matter the size of the fluids or the size of the pipes....

Bloodletting has been a successful medical strategy to combat high blood pressure for about 2000 years... until drug companies were established.

And you've been around since 1973... big woo.

Last edited by ghostie; 12-26-2012 at 07:09 AM..
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  #2  
Old 12-26-2012, 07:20 AM
Una Persson Una Persson is offline
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So in other words, your anecdotal report of your unscientific sample size of 1 trumps the medical resources and studies Cecil reviewed? But all that aside, since Cecil agreed that the pressure did drop in the short term...I don't see what your beef is.

And the human circulatory system is not a simple hydraulic pipe network.
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  #3  
Old 12-26-2012, 07:24 AM
ghostie ghostie is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Una Persson View Post
So in other words, your anecdotal report of your unscientific sample size of 1 trumps the medical resources and studies Cecil reviewed? But all that aside, since Cecil agreed that the pressure did drop in the short term...I don't see what your beef is.

And the human circulatory system is not a simple hydraulic pipe network.
Well, I think 2000 years of history sort of trumps pretty much everything, don't you?

You are wrong ... the human circulatory system is in fact a hydraulic pipe network.... lol.

Last edited by ghostie; 12-26-2012 at 07:26 AM..
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  #4  
Old 12-26-2012, 07:25 AM
moriah moriah is offline
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Originally Posted by ghostie View Post
Well, I think 2000 years of history sort of trumps pretty much everything, don't you?
So the sun really does go around the earth?
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  #5  
Old 12-26-2012, 07:28 AM
Ferret Herder Ferret Herder is offline
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Originally Posted by ghostie View Post
Well, I think 2000 years of history sort of trumps pretty much everything, don't you?
Not really. Considering that it took us until the late 1800s to figure out that some diseases were caused by "germs", and we had thought otherwise for way more than 2000 years before that, longevity of a theory doesn't necessarily mean squat.
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  #6  
Old 12-26-2012, 07:33 AM
ghostie ghostie is offline
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And those germs were good

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Originally Posted by Ferret Herder View Post
Not really. Considering that it took us until the late 1800s to figure out that some diseases were caused by "germs", and we had thought otherwise for way more than 2000 years before that, longevity of a theory doesn't necessarily mean squat.
It turns out that a diverse diet helped us sustain life beyond normal capacities... but bacteria is present in everything ...

I don't use bacterial soap or any of that stuff... Otherwise how could my immune system possibly protect itself?
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  #7  
Old 12-26-2012, 07:34 AM
ghostie ghostie is offline
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The Sun Doesn't stop.

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So the sun really does go around the earth?

Just as it did 2000 years ago... lol
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  #8  
Old 12-26-2012, 07:39 AM
ghostie ghostie is offline
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I have high blood pressure... lately I've been experiencing tooth decay and intense paid.

When I lift my leg to get into beg, My tooth throbs.

So, I decided to practice bloodletting - obviously I have high blood pressure.

Really high blood pressure. All my teeth hurt.

I just drained some blood... because obviously this was a problem. When I put my leg up on the bed my tooth throbbed like RED ALERT, RED ALERT, RED ALERT.

Well it worked... so, argue all you like... I don't really care. It worked.

P.S. There are 15 drugs that I didn't need from companies in the USA and around the world who produce such drugs.
I just stuck a hypodermic needle into my arm and let the blood flow... it wasn't that hard, and it worked. I feel 1000% better now.

Last edited by ghostie; 12-26-2012 at 07:42 AM..
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  #9  
Old 12-26-2012, 07:49 AM
Czarcasm Czarcasm is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ghostie View Post
I have high blood pressure... lately I've been experiencing tooth decay and intense paid.

When I lift my leg to get into beg, My tooth throbs.

So, I decided to practice bloodletting - obviously I have high blood pressure.

Really high blood pressure. All my teeth hurt.

I just drained some blood... because obviously this was a problem. When I put my leg up on the bed my tooth throbbed like RED ALERT, RED ALERT, RED ALERT.

Well it worked... so, argue all you like... I don't really care. It worked.

P.S. There are 15 drugs that I didn't need from companies in the USA and around the world who produce such drugs.
I just stuck a hypodermic needle into my arm and let the blood flow... it wasn't that hard, and it worked. I feel 1000% better now.
Is how you feel the only evidence you are willing to accept at this time? If so, then I see no need to present you with cites and/or facts...and I also see no need to listen to your anecdotes.
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  #10  
Old 12-26-2012, 07:51 AM
ghostie ghostie is offline
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Yup

Yup
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  #11  
Old 12-26-2012, 07:55 AM
ghostie ghostie is offline
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Originally Posted by Czarcasm View Post
Is how you feel the only evidence you are willing to accept at this time? If so, then I see no need to present you with cites and/or facts...and I also see no need to listen to your anecdotes.
Indian right? Yea, we're pretty much about done with Indians here in America. Sorry Chump... I have 32 years experience you have none. You lose.
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  #12  
Old 12-26-2012, 09:09 AM
TubaDiva TubaDiva is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ghostie View Post
Indian right? Yea, we're pretty much about done with Indians here in America. Sorry Chump... I have 32 years experience you have none. You lose.
Moderator note:

Ghostie, if you have a problem with Czarcasm -- or anyone else on this site -- the proper place to take that problem is to the Pit.

You must be civil with others in the other forum areas, even in disagreement. You can "agree to disagree" and discuss and even argue points with people without being rude about it.

Keep this thread civil -- and on topic.

Last edited by TubaDiva; 12-26-2012 at 09:10 AM.. Reason: moderator note
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  #13  
Old 12-26-2012, 12:30 PM
Una Persson Una Persson is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ghostie View Post
Well, I think 2000 years of history sort of trumps pretty much everything, don't you?
No it doesn't.
Quote:
You are wrong ... the human circulatory system is in fact a hydraulic pipe network.... lol.
No it isn't.
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  #14  
Old 12-26-2012, 01:07 PM
Irishman Irishman is offline
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Originally Posted by ghostie View Post
You are wrong ... the human circulatory system is in fact a hydraulic pipe network.... lol.
Una said "simple hydraulic pipe network". Yes, the circulatory is a pipe network, but it is an adaptive one. The pipe sizes change based on other system triggers. Blood pressure is not strictly controlled by blood volume, but by other factors like water retention, and blood vessel constriction.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ghostie View Post
It turns out that a diverse diet helped us sustain life beyond normal capacities...
Normal capacities? What does that even mean?
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  #15  
Old 12-26-2012, 01:10 PM
Yllaria Yllaria is online now
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I'm not so bothered about calling it a pipe network. But you know that the fluid volume goes right back as soon as you take a drink of water, right? The body has many interconnected feedback systems to maintain homeostasis. If a system has gone wonky, it will keep re-establishing the high blood pressure. Fix the system, fix the problem. Relieve the symptom, symptom comes back.

If I were convinced that bleeding helped me, I'd donate blood, and I'd make sure I didn't cheat on their schedule and give too often. Of course, I'd also see a dentist for tooth decay and pain. Leaving that untreated is dangerous. If you're into history, historically, folks knew they could die from untreated tooth pain and they pulled the teeth as the treatment. BLOODLETTING HAS NEVER BEEN A TREATMENT FOR TOOTH PAIN.

Bloodletting was used to balance the four bodily humors: blood (hot/wet), phlegm (cold/wet), yellow bile (hot/dry), and black bile (cold/dry). It was prescribed for fevers that were causing sweats or producing other fluids. It was not prescribed for toothache.
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  #16  
Old 12-26-2012, 01:52 PM
DCnDC DCnDC is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ghostie View Post
I have high blood pressure... lately I've been experiencing tooth decay and intense paid.
I experienced intense paid once. Unfortunately it didn't last long and I had to go find a job.
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  #17  
Old 12-26-2012, 06:33 PM
ghostie ghostie is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yllaria View Post
I'm not so bothered about calling it a pipe network. But you know that the fluid volume goes right back as soon as you take a drink of water, right? The body has many interconnected feedback systems to maintain homeostasis. If a system has gone wonky, it will keep re-establishing the high blood pressure. Fix the system, fix the problem. Relieve the symptom, symptom comes back.

If I were convinced that bleeding helped me, I'd donate blood, and I'd make sure I didn't cheat on their schedule and give too often. Of course, I'd also see a dentist for tooth decay and pain. Leaving that untreated is dangerous. If you're into history, historically, folks knew they could die from untreated tooth pain and they pulled the teeth as the treatment. BLOODLETTING HAS NEVER BEEN A TREATMENT FOR TOOTH PAIN.

Bloodletting was used to balance the four bodily humors: blood (hot/wet), phlegm (cold/wet), yellow bile (hot/dry), and black bile (cold/dry). It was prescribed for fevers that were causing sweats or producing other fluids. It was not prescribed for toothache.

You started out pretty good... but bloodletting doesn't require blood donars - we make our own blood. I can't afford the dentist, which is the problem - except that I don't think it's a dental issue, I think it's high blood pressure - which doesn't require a medical professional in my opinion - just bloodletting.

All in all, at least you actually tried to understand part of my post. Thanks.
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  #18  
Old 12-26-2012, 06:35 PM
ghostie ghostie is offline
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Originally Posted by TubaDiva View Post
Moderator note:

Ghostie, if you have a problem with Czarcasm -- or anyone else on this site -- the proper place to take that problem is to the Pit.

You must be civil with others in the other forum areas, even in disagreement. You can "agree to disagree" and discuss and even argue points with people without being rude about it.

Keep this thread civil -- and on topic.
Sorry about that, I have 5 abcess teeth at the moment and I'm in intense pain - for 5 days now... which is why I came here.

Obviously I came to the wrong place - the author is on Google for bloodletting - that's how I got here... I had questions.

It's just a philosophical site... with no experience whatsoever. Waste of time. I won't apologize, because it's mostly my time that has been wasted.

Last edited by ghostie; 12-26-2012 at 06:39 PM..
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  #19  
Old 12-26-2012, 06:44 PM
moriah moriah is offline
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Originally Posted by ghostie View Post
Sorry about that, I have 5 abcess teeth at the moment and I'm in intense pain - for 5 days now... which is why I came here.

Obviously I came to the wrong place - the author is on Google for bloodletting - that's how I got here... I had questions.

It's just a philosophical site... with no experience whatsoever. Waste of time. I won't apologize, because it's mostly my time that has been wasted.
GO SEE A DENTIST. BLOODLETTING WON'T WORK.

I'm telling that to you out of kindness even though this last post of yours was in full-on jerk mode.
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  #20  
Old 12-27-2012, 10:15 AM
Irishman Irishman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ghostie View Post
You started out pretty good... but bloodletting doesn't require blood donars - we make our own blood.
All she was saying is that if she was going to be reducing her blood volume by removing blood, she would do it by donating the blood so it would be useful for someone else, rather than dumping it down the drain. You know, not being selfish and all that.

Quote:
I can't afford the dentist, which is the problem - except that I don't think it's a dental issue, I think it's high blood pressure - which doesn't require a medical professional in my opinion - just bloodletting.
There's no way blood pressure would be hurting your teeth if you don't have an underlying dental problem. Which you concede:

Quote:
Originally Posted by ghostie View Post
Sorry about that, I have 5 abcess teeth at the moment
So congratulations on your stellar medical diagnosis that you don't have any dental problems, just a blood pressure problem.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ghostie View Post
Sorry about that, I have 5 abcess teeth at the moment and I'm in intense pain - for 5 days now... which is why I came here.
So you're in intense pain and coming here to tell us that the way to treat your dental problems is to bleed out rather than go to a dentist? Brilliant.
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  #21  
Old 12-27-2012, 12:54 PM
Una Persson Una Persson is offline
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Thank you Irishman. I sort of gave up after I realized I could be doing 4,329 things which were more fun than arguing with the OP. I chose #4.
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  #22  
Old 12-27-2012, 01:26 PM
TubaDiva TubaDiva is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ghostie View Post
Sorry about that, I have 5 abcess teeth at the moment and I'm in intense pain - for 5 days now... which is why I came here.

Obviously I came to the wrong place - the author is on Google for bloodletting - that's how I got here... I had questions.

It's just a philosophical site... with no experience whatsoever. Waste of time. I won't apologize, because it's mostly my time that has been wasted.
Yes, it has been a waste of time, as this is not a dentist's office.

You have five abcessed teeth and you're checking out "experts"on Google? The only thing you should be looking for is names and addresses of dental clinics where you can be properly treated. Everything else is just quackery and bullstuff and false hopes on your part.

Unreated dental infections can lead to, among other things, heart disease. So you could have a bigger problem brewing than just a toothache.

Get this treated appropriately.
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  #23  
Old 12-27-2012, 04:52 PM
BrotherCadfael BrotherCadfael is offline
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Originally Posted by ghostie View Post
And you've been around since 1973... big woo.
Yup, "woo" about sums it up.
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