The Straight Dope

Go Back   Straight Dope Message Board > Main > Cafe Society

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 02-21-2014, 04:33 PM
NoCoolUserName NoCoolUserName is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Tolkien vs. The Order of the Holy Paraclete?!?

I have a copy of "Bilbo's Last Song" which is a short poem illustrated by Pauline Baynes. Checking the copyright info, I see that the copyright (1974) is held by The Order of the Holy Paraclete. What's up with that? How did they get the copyright rather than the Tolkien family?
Reply With Quote
Advertisements  
  #2  
Old 02-21-2014, 05:01 PM
Claverhouse Claverhouse is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Perhaps the Tolkien family donated it to them.



Think of all the late night pub singalongs where it has been roared out since 1974. Even pennies per time would add up.
__________________
The efficiency and success of the Italian aviators in Tripoli are noteworthy, but must not be overvalued. There were no opponents in the air.

v. Bernhardi ---- Germany and the Next War
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 02-21-2014, 05:20 PM
Qadgop the Mercotan Qadgop the Mercotan is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Slithering on the hull
Posts: 22,414
Robert E. Morse uses the term paraclete quite often in his book Bilbo's Birthday and Frodo's Adventure of Faith to describe both Gandalf and Tom Bombadil.

Damned if I know why, I just wanted to point that out.

I just searched my ecopies of JRRT's major works, and don't find the word "paraclete" used once. Sadly, I lack an ecopy of "Letters by JRRT".
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 02-21-2014, 05:24 PM
Miller Miller is offline
Sith Mod
Moderator
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Bear Flag Republic
Posts: 36,505
I Googled the organization, and found its home page. It's an Anglican nunnery. Didn't see any mention of Tolkien, but I found this interesting tidbit:

Quote:
Prayer and worship together are at the centre of our life.

It is here that:
  • the community began in 1915
  • each Sister begins her life in community
  • the Prioress (Head of the Order) lives
  • the Order’s administrative work is centred
  • Sisters are cared for in old age and infirmity
  • guests are welcomed
  • various ministries are undertaken
  • the OHP Library is maintained for use by Sisters and guests
I find it suspicious that they go out of their way to mention that their leader is not, in fact, an undead.

Yes, I know what they're really saying.

Last edited by Miller; 02-21-2014 at 05:24 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 02-21-2014, 05:27 PM
Baron Greenback Baron Greenback is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Looks like Tolkien gifted it to his secretary, Joy Hill. Perhaps she passed it on to that Order?
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 02-21-2014, 09:51 PM
dropzone dropzone is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Cloud Cuckoo Land
Posts: 23,246
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miller View Post
I Googled the organization, and found its home page. It's an Anglican nunnery.
But...but...but Tolkien was CATHOLIC! REAL Catholic. If he gave those hateful heretics anything it would be because...because...because he simply wouldn't do it, being Catholic and all, from back when that mattered.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 02-22-2014, 12:42 PM
FriarTed FriarTed is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: IN USA
Posts: 12,933
Maybe the copyright is for the illustrations. Pauline Bayne also illustrated Narnia, and probably was Anglican.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 02-22-2014, 12:48 PM
Miller Miller is offline
Sith Mod
Moderator
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Bear Flag Republic
Posts: 36,505
The link i posted above has contact information, including an email.

You could just ask them.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 02-22-2014, 01:53 PM
Tamerlane Tamerlane is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: SF Bay Area, California
Posts: 10,521
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miller View Post
I Googled the organization, and found its home page. It's an Anglican nunnery.
Interesting. I immediately on reading the thread header thought of this somewhat controversial Catholic group ( I've seen their old facility in Jemez Springs, which is now basically a nunnery ). But not the same thing, apparently.

Last edited by Tamerlane; 02-22-2014 at 01:54 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 02-22-2014, 04:32 PM
What Exit? What Exit? is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Central NJ (near Bree)
Posts: 25,609
I have a copy of "Bilbo's Last Song" also. I never noticed the copyright. Pretty interesting, I hope someone can answer the mystery.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 03-07-2014, 11:37 AM
NoCoolUserName NoCoolUserName is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
C'mon, nobody? Someone here is expert enough about Tolkien to know his relationship with this particular group...speak up!
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 03-07-2014, 12:52 PM
Miller Miller is offline
Sith Mod
Moderator
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Bear Flag Republic
Posts: 36,505
Again, you could just ask the group in question.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 03-07-2014, 09:07 PM
Wendell Wagner Wendell Wagner is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: Greenbelt, Maryland
Posts: 11,900
I just asked a couple of Tolkien scholars, and this is what they said:

> Tolkien gave the poem, and its copyright, to his friend and sometime secretary Joy
> Hill, and when Joy died in 1991, she bequeathed the copyright to the Order of the
> Holy Paraclete. We don't know the circumstances, but this is definitely the case.
> Pauline Baynes's art for Bilbo's Last Song is separately copyrighted, and
> those rights are owned by the Williams College Oxford Programme, who received
> Pauline's art copyrights along with her archive and library after her death in 2008
> (http://chapin.williams.edu/collect/baynes.html).
Reply With Quote
Reply



Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:57 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

Send questions for Cecil Adams to: cecil@chicagoreader.com

Send comments about this website to: webmaster@straightdope.com

Terms of Use / Privacy Policy

Advertise on the Straight Dope!
(Your direct line to thousands of the smartest, hippest people on the planet, plus a few total dipsticks.)

Publishers - interested in subscribing to the Straight Dope?
Write to: sdsubscriptions@chicagoreader.com.

Copyright 2013 Sun-Times Media, LLC.