Goddamn all you girls with your fucking BOYFRIENDS!

[White Lightning]

No (low) ratings, please. This isn't even a rant so much as a lament. And you know you can always trust your pal White Lightning to put the "LAME" in "lament."

(Disclaimer: if anything I say in this post is taken to be offensive to females of any sort, please un-take it that way. It's not meant in that light. I worship women. On the other hand, anything I say that is taken to be offensive to hot girls' punk-ass boyfriends, please take that one all the way to the bank. Fuck you guys.)

So anyway, right. I say, all you girls with your bastard boyfriends can go to hell. How can I be only 20 and already feel like all the good ones are taken? Today my friend told me, "yeah, these days you have to either be a girl-stealer or a vulture." What is the deal here?

So, I've been flirting with you at work for more than a week, right. I know you know. I'm pretty sure you know I know you know. That's fine. So today I decide I will get up the nerve to get your number, because my friend's party is coming up and i really want you to come. (because you're fucking HOT, you bitch, and nice too. and interesting. Fuck!) So I come in, ostensibly to find someone to cover my shift tomorrow, and hang around for almost a half hour for no reason! Then I ask you (lamely) if I could get your number "and maybe, uh, give you a call sometime." Thank you for not saying "Well what else would you do with my number, you fuckwad," but did you have to stick the knife into my chest with that same sweet smile that made my heart turn over the first time i saw you walk through the door of my store?

And that was supposed to be my reward for handling that last situation so well (That girl with the same NAME as the first girl, so i KNEW we were going to work out). That girl at that party who I really clicked with... the sister of my best friend's ex-girlfriend. I know! It sounds fucked up, but I didn't care! And neither did you! We talked for hours, out on the seawall, holding each other underneath the blanket that smelled like Dammit the dog. Now every time I drive past that fucking seawall i think about you-- every fucking time-- and that was 6 months ago! That night was GOOD. We were right together, i fucking know it. And.... yep, I knew it. You have a boyfriend. And, not only that, but I get to meet his undeserving ass the next time I go down to santa cruz? Peachy. Could you possibly be going out with a LESS deserving waste of space? I doubt it. I can't even blame you for leading me on... you felt so bad later. And I really did mean what I said, I didn't regret anything that did or didn't happen, and neither should you. I do, however, regret thinking about you for 2 solid months after that night. Not to mention the regret i feel for acting like such an asshole that night in sc. But at least I didn't punch your pasty-faced girly boy right in his pompous fucking face. I can give myself that much.

And you! YOU! You flirted with me first, you fucking tease! I know you were flirting, too, because it happened several times before I picked up on it, and more than one of my coworkers assured me that that was the case! Even my bass-ackwards fucking BOSS told me I should ask you out! Thank mother fucking goodness you decided to let slip casually in a conversation about Ben Harper (the 20th possibly-slightly-more-than-friendly conversation we had in that store, at LEAST) that you had a boyfriend, before I made an even bigger ass of myself than I already had by asking you out once (yeah, tell me "maybe next time," yeah right, thanks a fucking bunch, why don't you just tell me NOW instead of letting me get my hopes up at your less-than-conclusive response to my first attempt, and thanks for letting me continue to gawk and stammer at you every time you come in for some fucking ego boost that I know you get every fucking place you go anyway). "Oh, he's great!" Well, fuck you, and fuck your fucking boyfriend, and fuck the fucking horse the two of you happily fucking rode in on, christ!

Look, I know it's not your fault (any of you), and Lord knows it could have been MUCH worse in every one of those situations-- nobody got their feelings hurt (too badly), and no one put anyone down. And I know I'm lucky for that.

But SHIT! I'm starting to wish I had never started working so hard to get over my insecurities so I could get myself into the game! Because this game fucking sucks ass. Every time I think I'm on the right track, i fucking get shot down. And for no good reason, either. Tell me I'm ugly, physically as well as personality-wise, tell me I smell like dirty socks that have already been worn right side out AND inside out more than 3 times each, tell me the color of my fucking hair sends shivers of repulsion down your spine, tell me SOMETHING meaningful, for pete's sake. Something that won't make me think to myself for weeks, "if only..."

If only you didn't have a fucking boyfriend, you fucking bitch.

Just shoot me now, before I get interested in anyone else.

[Eutychus]

Originally posted by White Lightning
you bitch

Well, fuck you, and fuck your fucking boyfriend, and fuck the fucking horse the two of you happily fucking rode in on, christ!

If only you didn't have a fucking boyfriend, you fucking bitch.

I think I'm beginning to get a feel for what the problem is here ...

[Snooooopy]

Originally posted by White Lightning
Today my friend told me, "yeah, these days you have to either be a girl-stealer or a vulture." What is the deal here?

So you have rejected the notion of being a girl-stealer?

[kabbes]

White Lightning - I have a lot of sympathy for your position and I know where you're coming from. I particularly felt for you with this line

I'm starting to wish I had never started working so hard to get over my insecurities so I could get myself into the game!

All I can say is: stick with it, keep your confidence and know that it does get better and that mid-twenties women are far more likely to appreciate a good guy than teenagers/girls in their low twenties are.

Truly.

pan

[SPOOFE]

Hey, don't fret it, WL. I'm 20, don't have a girlfriend, and don't care (much). There're other things for me to be concerned about... like money.

On the other hand, my two best friends are going out together, so I've been able to live vicariously through them... maybe that's what you need to do.

[White Lightning]

Thanks, Eutychus55. Your cryptic response has me in fits of inspired epiphany. You really got me this time; you can read me like nobody else can. And not only that, but you give such good advice!
Come on man, help me pin it down here. Is it that I'm a woman-hater or misogynist because I used the word "bitch" twice in an embittered rant? Is it that I don't know any words to express my feelings other than "fuck"? Or is it the more general problem that I'm completely vulgar and juvenile in my self-expression, and maybe even in my entire personality? All of the above? Sorry dude. This is the pit. I'm young. I'm dumb. I'm bitter. You're reading about it. If I'm being a jerk, or breaking any other rules, please be sure to let me know because I have all kinds of respect for you. As a moderator.

Thanks for the sentiment, kabbes. I'm glad you feel me. Supposedly, college-age girls were supposed to be more into "good" guys (guys like the kind of guy that I try to be) than HS girls. I'll just keep looking ahead. But anyway, on the brighter side, I've only ever asked out two girls, and both of those stories are in my OP... so all hyperbole aside, I think I'm in pretty good shape. As long as I keep telling myself that I am, anyway.

Snooooopy: Yeah. I've done that, and as far as I can tell it's just not worth it.

And, well, SPOOFE, as far as money goes, I don't have any, I'm not making any, and I don't have much prospect to get any anytime soon.... hey, wait, that sounds a lot like where I stand with girls too... hm.

[SPOOFE]

Hey, at least with money, you can have as much as you want without it getting jealous of the other denominations of bills.

[lucwarm]

They don't all have boyfriends, but, most attractive women have at least one guy in their life who they can refer to as a "boyfriend" when it suits their needs.

When does it suit their needs? When they want to brush somebody off. I'm not saying this happened to you in each case, but believe me it's pretty common.

Your goal is to approach women in such a way that they are less likely brush you off.

I'm not a "Playa," but I can tell you that your approach needs a little work.

For one thing, lingering around for half an hour, working up your courage, is a real turnoff to women. They can sense how you feel, and it makes you look insecure and sappy. You don't have to be the "bad boy," but you need to approach quickly, directly, and without apology.

There's a few good web sites devoted to these issues, and I would encourage you to study and practice your technique. A month or two of practice, and you will be able to get more girls than you need.

Let me know if you want the URL's.

[Myrr21]

No (low) ratings, please.

2.0 on the basis of that statement.



See, your problem is that you're not investing enough time in corrupting young innocents. That's the growth market these days.

[Dr. Lao]

Originally posted by White Lightning
Thanks, Eutychus55. Your cryptic response has me in fits of inspired epiphany. You really got me this time; you can read me like nobody else can. And not only that, but you give such good advice!
Come on man, help me pin it down here. Is it that I'm a woman-hater or misogynist because I used the word "bitch" twice in an embittered rant? Is it that I don't know any words to express my feelings other than "fuck"? Or is it the more general problem that I'm completely vulgar and juvenile in my self-expression, and maybe even in my entire personality? All of the above? Sorry dude. This is the pit. I'm young. I'm dumb. I'm bitter. You're reading about it. If I'm being a jerk, or breaking any other rules, please be sure to let me know because I have all kinds of respect for you. As a moderator.

I think Euty's point was that the attitude of angry-resentful tends to be a turn-off for most ladies. Change your attitude and you might have more luck.

[Diane]

How can I be only 20 and already feel like all the good ones are taken?

I’m only 39 :::gulp::: and still feel that way most days. I think is has something to do with the grass on the other side of the fence.

I was ready to point something out to you had Euty not beaten me to it. I hope you don’t dismiss me as quickly as you did him and really consider what we both are trying to say to you.

I won’t pretend to know what you are like around other women or how they perceive you. Speaking for myself, the first time a guy showed himself as being disrespectful to women by referring to them as "bitches" would be about the time they took themselves off my list of men I would date. It may not be the case with the women you have asked out, but it is something that you may want to consider.

lucwarm may have something as far as using the old "I have a boyfriend" excuse. It may not be honest but it is easier to say than "No, you’re not my type and I don’t want to go out with you", and there is less possibility of hurting feelings. Kind of chicken shit, but hey, some of us are chicken shit.

However, I have to disagree with him about your approach. As a female, I think it is cute and charming when a guy isn’t too confident, when he has to get up the nerve to ask you out.

I don't know what websites he has but I have this image in my head of Tom Cruise in Magnolia.

Good luck to you and hang in there.

[thinksnow]

[Chris Farley]
Yeah, I may not be "good looking," or drive a "nice car," or "smell" "nice." And I may live in "van" "down by the river." I might not "know what to say," or "spit" when I "talk." <urg>
[/Chris Farley]

You've got to just keep plugging away, my man. Odds are, you'll get shot down more often than you'll hook up, but tat's the key, you've got to have the self-confidence to keep trying.

_{Pit comments: poop, drat, heck}

[Saint Zero]

I'll keep my advice simple.

A. Keep Looking. If she's like this now, only god knows what she would have been like trying to date.
B. Like the cliche says "There are more fish in the sea." Keep fishing.
C. Relax. It's just a female.

[SteelDrill]

Much sympathy, man! I know exactly how you feel, having been there and did that too. Mine was a nurse, like 4 feet 8 inches tall and as absolutely as cute and nice as a dream. Her boyfriend, equally unfortunately, was around 6 ft 4, a slab of major muscle and -- crap -- nice.

[CrankyAsAnOldMan]

Well, I can't speak for all the girls out there, but when I was 20 I always had a boyfriend because I always thought I had to have one. Stupid? Yes. I was insecure and didn't like myself unless I had someone committed to liking me. This was so bad, I'd often not manage to break up with one boyfriend until I had the next one lined up. When one broke up with me with no warning, I'd be morose until I found a new one. I'd just glom onto the next likely prospect. Horrible. Luckily I didn't lose too many boyfriends, because I was actually a pretty good girlfriend, but the the fact that I had to be in a relationship was pathetic.

I didn't have the confidence to be single and enjoy being single until much later in life.

I'm not saying that this is the problem with all the girls you're running into, but I'd hazard a guess that the paucity of single women your age might have at least something to do with personal and societal pressures some of them feel to be hooked up with someone.

What to do in the face of it? Well, I wouldn't automatically blow off a woman who was in a relationship. At 20, many relationships are relatively short term anyway. I'm not saying you should actively try to break up a couple, but let these women get to know you in a non-pushy way. Don't just reject them or slink away in dejected humiliation because someone else got to them first. Keep in mind that the girl you're coveting now might be free in a week or a month. Or maybe she's just clinging to something inadequate because she's waiting for something better to come along.

[gobear]

I’m only 39 :::gulp::: and still feel that way most days. I think is has something to do with the grass on the other side of the fence.

Diane, you are beautiful and intelligent. A grown woman has wisdom and a mysterious allure that coltish, clumsy younger women cannnot emulate.
I'm a gay guy, and I get to share in what women think of straight guys, so let me lay it down for you.
White Lightning, neediness and hostility are not a turnon for sane women. If you reveal your Flaming Volcano of Need to women,they will run. Until you are secure enough to enjoy life alone, you're not going to be any good in a relationship. Getting a girlfriend isn't the end to all your troubles. Maintaining a healthy relationship takes work.

My advice is invest in yourself. I hope you're going to a gym because your 20s is the best time to build a rocksolid body. Contrary to what women say, a guy in good shape always gets their attention. Lifting weights is also a great way to build self-confidence.

Next, work on your mind and your soul. Women like a guy with
a bit of intellectual heft. Read a good book, learn a new skill, find something fun to do. Every woman I know says that a man with interests outside of work and TV makes them interested in him.

Women are not objects to be worshipped; they're people, just like men. Take off your fantasy goggles and get to know women as pals. It's a great way to closer to them and their friends. If you have a female friend, she can clue you to the best dating strategies, not to mention find you a potential love.

Most important, dial down the hostility. Life is not a rap video, and it's not cool to call women 'bitches.' It's cliche, but it's true; you do catch a lot more flies with honey than you do with vinegar.

[BlinkingDuck]

I don't want to throw gasoline (more depression) on a fire here, but I will. You think it's bad now, wait about 3 years. By then every woman, and I do mean EVERY WOMAN, will have kids. So, even if you find a nice girl to live with/marry, you will be stuck raising and supporting another man's kid(s). The rare ones that don't have kids will be screwed up mentally or something else making them very undesirable.

Lightning, I was in the same boat as you but it took me until I was 23 (!) to get myself straightned out. By then 99.9% of women have kids and the rest are coo-coo. I felt I missed the boat. I eventually did marry but even then I had to 'steal' her AND she had a kid. The only other viable choice during that time was a woman with no kids but a bit strange in the head - fun to be with but not have a family with. However, there was that really nice woman who would have been great except for the incurable veneral disease....

Before I get jumped on as a woman hater (I'm not) I have female friends who complain about the exact same thing so I don't think it's a gender specific thing.

[kabbes]

Aw c'm'on guys, give WL a break! He's just been rejected and is feeling pretty low, so he went to the one place he knows he can safely lash out (where noone knows your name). There's nothing to imply that the sentiment in the OP is even marginally related to his everyday life attitude!

On other matters, to WL I'll say: You've asked out girls two times? Two times??? Heh heh. You gotta whole lot more rejection comin' your way before you find YOUR lil' snookums, my friend

pan

[BlinkingDuck]

I have to second Kabbes here. WL is probably not a bad person, just very frustrated. Let him vent.

I also missed the 2 times thing. 2 times?? Kabbes is right, you have a whhhooollllleeee lot of rejction coming up. The good news is you kind of get used to it in that you become more calloused and don't take it as much personally. The other good news is that you can have many, many misses and it only takes one hit

[BlinkingDuck]

Jumping on WL because of his frustration reminds me of my niece. She confides in me and she has told me that she wants a bf very, very much. She is also very overweight, heading into late 20's and never had a serious bf. Because of her frustration, she has developed a cynical attitude about men.

So what do people tell her? That if she wants to meet a guy, she must cheer up her attitude! They don't understand that they have cause and effect backwards.

Blink

[Medea's Child]

You shouldn't look for someone to complete you. You should look to complete yourself, and for someone to be with on that journey.

You shouldn't work to find the perfect girl. You should work to make yourself someone the perfect girl would find perfect.

WL, just breathe a bit and chill. Be friends. If something romantic comes of it, great. If not, you have had the bright purity of a good friendship. (I'm currently missing a friend of mine more than my SO, having not heard from either for the same amount of time.)

And rejection does not kill you. It will happen. a Lot. It sucks, but you have to be able to take it and move on. (Take it *and* move on. Both parts are important.) Good Luck.

[Morrison's Lament]

I wish I had some kind of joke to go with that "lament" comment in the op...

Since I don't, how's this?:

Chicks.... what a bunch of people, huh?

--- G. Raven

[Diane]

The rare ones that don't have kids will be screwed up mentally or something else making them very undesirable.

[Miss Cleo] I predict a good ass kicking from the childless women on the board.[/Miss Cleo]

So Blink, which one are you? A parent? Mentally screwed up? Or just an asshole?

[Scylla]

Boyfriend? Boyfriend?

Who gives a shit?

What are you still in the 8th grade?


Why don't you ask a friend to ask a friend to find out if she likes you?


Jesus fucking Christ on a crutch, have you been emasculated? What happened to your balls?

"uh, can I have your phone number?"

::Beats fist on desk::

What the fuck is that?

Don't blame the girl because you're not enough of a man to go out and get what you want.


Did you think it was gonna be easy?

Most every good-looking girl has a boyfriend all the time. If she ain't married, and he's not your buddy who gives a shit?

Stop being such a whiny pussy over a little adversity.

Do you think Conan the Barbarian would worry about a boyfirend?

Do you think James Bond would say "Oh, I didn't know you had a boyfirend."


Fucking ROB SCHNEIDER wouldn't let this stop him. That's how low on the Totem Pole you are.

A fucking blind guy just climbed Everest. Stand up and be a man. You want her, go get her.

[gobear]

I don't know about WL, but I think I just fell in love with Scylla!

[Cat Whisperer]

Originally posted by White Lightning
<snip>Thanks for the sentiment, kabbes. I'm glad you feel me. <snip>

:eek!:

Blinking Duck, what very weird things to say! Every girl in her mid-twenties has kids or is crazy in the head or diseased? If that's true where you live, you seriously need to move.

As for the OP, yeah, rejection sucks (from both sides - don't think women never get rejected); FWIW, I agree with Eutychus. Your attitude towards women in your rant truly sucked; I realize it was a rant, but if your attitude towards women is even a shadow of that IRL, you may want to consider making a few adjustments. How about taking a little responsibility for finding out about boyfriends yourself? How about just *asking* them before you start thinking about them romantically, instead of calling them a bitch later?

[Scylla]

I agree 1000% with goboy. The smoldering volcano of need bit is not going to help.

You need to charm her, capture her heart, and let her not your intentions with a little panache. A lighthearted touch is also best so she doesn't think you are a psycho, just fun.

Try this:

By yourself a black mask, a cape, and a long-stemmed rose.

The next time she comes into your store, tell her to "wait right here, you'll be right back." Grab her hand and look into her eyes when you say it, but don't bet over serious about it.

Go in the back. Put on your mask and cape, and grab the rose between your teeth. Sneak out the back, and enter from the front.

Call her name and snap your cape.

Walk over with a flourish, and present her the rose on a knee.

Stand up, and look at her a moment.

Say "I am the bandito of love. And I have come to steal your heart. But like all noble banditos, I only steal what is rightfully mine. I have come to rescue you from the clutches of the foul and vile [insert boyfriend's name here,]."

Take of your mask. Smile winningly. Open your arms.

"and now you must kiss me."

Stand and wait. Either you have made a legendary fool of yourself the likes of which they will speak of with profound awe for ages to come, or you are about to get some serious smooching.

Make it light hearted and fun.

She may kiss you, or she may not. She might be thinking about it, so don't panic if you start feeling like a fool.

If you think she's thinking about it, but embarassed and a little charmed say ironically "I see that I have caught you off guard and left you stunned, my beautiful mountain flower. Fine, do not kiss me. Let me stand here in my cape looking mysterious while my heart breaks. I don't mind. But at the very least will you allow this noble bandito to take you out to dinner tomorrow night? I promise to leave the cape at home."

If she has any kind of heart she'll agree. She can't help but being charmed. Then if you blow it at dinner it's your own fault.

And I wouldn't have suggested this, but any woman who spent the night with you on the seawall is looking for you to convince her, that your better than the slug she's with.

If he's as bad as you say. You can't fail.

[BlinkingDuck]

Featherlou - It was just my experience but I know what I experienced may not be reality but it was reality for me. I went through a streak that if I was to post you would think I was making it up. All through this 'streak' I thought it must be some sort of bad luck, that women couldn't truely be this screwed up in general but the streak kept going and going. After 5 years of that, you start to get the impression most people are seriously cracked.

That being said, I spent all my 20's in rural Wyoming/South Dakota. As soon as I moved to Minneapolis I immediately started getting hits that were not all like I posted though most still had kids. I met my wife and lost all interest in continuing to date others. So, to be fair, I didn't spend much 'dating' time except in rural wyoming/south dakota.

Diane, I am married. However, if I had to chose one on your list to describe myself, I would say 'asshole'.

[White Lightning]

Okay... So what you're saying is... Diane, Dr.Lao, goboy, and featherlou agree with Eutychus55 and pick "all of the above" in response to my question about what he thinks my problem is. I especially like goboy's comment that "life is not like a rap video," because that is clearly what I think about my life. I have this to say to that: (thank you again, kabbes)

Aw c'm'on guys, give WL a break! He's just been rejected and is feeling pretty low, so he went to the one place he knows he can safely lash out (where no one knows your name). There's nothing to imply that the sentiment in the OP is even marginally related to his everyday life attitude!

It's not (marginally related). I'm sorry, I thought I had made it clear in the OP that I was frustrated and a little bit down, and that anything hurtful I said was not intended to be taken seriously. Then again, it's just not very sensible to refer to anyone as a bitch here on the SDMB and not expect to get called out for it.

Featherlou, you recommend that I should inquire about the possible existence of a boyfriend before I get interested, and this seems to me to be impractible. You want me to take responsibility for finding out about a boyfriend before I get interested, but how am I supposed to do that? Ask around? Get a friend to ask her friend if she likes me, like Scylla said? If I just ask her if she's attached, how is that really different from asking for her number, except that it's more awkward?

CrankyAsAnOldMan, I hear you. I've never liked not being in a relationship, and I've been trying to examine why I feel that way. There's no good reason why I need to be with someone, maybe it's just a phase I'm going through, or something. Maybe I'm just bored and asking girls out is like my new masochistic hobby. Who knows, I'm confident I'll get myself figured out pretty well before I'm all done.

Thanks thinksnow and everybody for the good advice (and a hearty welcome to SteelDrill!). You too, Diane (I did in fact read to the bottom of your post, despite the criticism at the top, hee hee), for the good wishes. Regarding "cute and charming," that's pretty much always the angle I end up taking, so I'm lucky there are girls/women like you (and most of my first girlfriends) who like that kind of thing. From what I've seen, the whole confidence vs. cuteness thing is pretty evenly divided as far as what girls prefer. CrankyAsAnOldman and goboy also tell me to stick around and become "pals," which I think is good advice as well. You never know.

Well, anyway, for the most part, you're all right. I'll keep fishing. As far as the 2 times thing goes, I've been in *very* serious LTR's before (you oldheads can go ahead and look down on me now, I know, no relationship you have before 20 can be that serious, I still have a lot to learn, ok), but I just recently decided that I had to stop being meek and wallflower-y and waiting for someone to land in my lap (har har), and actually start asking girls out, which is what "normal" people do, right? So far I'm not good at it.

In short:
1) I will grant that I am immature in my need for validation in the form of a committed relationship.

2) I will grant that I am relatively inexperienced in these matters, and probably am not going about it in the most effective, fashionable, or flattering way.

3) I will grant (as will Scylla) that I am a fucking nerd, and that once I'm nervous I can't come up with a snappy line to save my life.

4) I will not grant that I am hostile or disrespectful towards women. Diane, I appreciate that you acknowledge that my OP gives you no idea of my true behavior or feelings. It doesn't. In my post I used the word "bitch" the way I would use the word "asshole" to describe a guy that I was mad at for a frivolous reason. Perhaps that was wrong of me, and if anyone feels that it was, I apologize again. I meant no offense.

[White Lightning]

hahaha, Scylla, you totally rule. I just want to say that you're the man. Da bomb. Man. I should do that.

[Giraffe]

WL, listen to the advice in this thread. I wish someone had smacked me upside the head when I was your age (I'm 27 now), as I would have dated more (and probably better) people, and had a lot more fun. Things I have learned:

1. You've got to ask out lots of people. Two is unbelievably pathetic. (No offense -- I was just as pathetic.)

2. You've got to ask them out with confidence. Don't make up lame pretenses to talk to them. Make it clear that you're talking to them because you're interested in them. Don't hang around their desks for half an hour. Walk up to their desks and ask them right out. Be honest -- tell them you think they're hot, and great to talk to, and you'd love a chance to date them. Women like compliments, especially if they're genuine.

3. There is no downside to asking someone out. Girls like to be asked out. Even if they aren't interested or available, it's an ego boost to have someone interested in you. There is a huge potential upside to asking someone out, which is fun dates and/or hot monkey sex.

4. Fuck the boyfriends. (Not literally.) Most women at that age, especially attractive women, have no concept of their own relative worth. As such, they often date losers. There's nothing wrong with telling them you want them to break up with their boyfriends and date you. My fiancee was in a relationship when we met, and just by speaking up, I ended up in this amazing relationship with her. It's so, so worth it to take the risk.

Last of all, don't let your life pass you by. Make it great. Go out and make things happen. I was way too passive when I was younger, and I regret it now. Even if you get rejected, you can feel good about being brave and taking chances.

Good luck!

[Diane]

However, if I had to chose one on your list to describe myself, I would say 'asshole'.

Okay, just asking.

WL, I am glad to hear that the "bitch" thing was just part of your rant and not how you come across IRL. Yeah, I did give you some criticism, but it was constructive criticism that I hope you consider instead of seeing as a slam against you.

There has been a lot of advice, but you mostly just need to relax and not get too uptight about it. FYI - A lot of us females like the nerdy type, so don’t change anything there.

About this:

(you oldheads can go ahead and look down on me now, I know, no relationship you have before 20 can be that serious.

This "oldhead" had been married for two years by the time she was 20 years old (that’s a pretty serious relationship, eh?), so no looking down on you by me.

Again, hang in there. It’ll happen for you.

Goboy - Thanks for the nice words!

Damn! I am getting to gooshy for the Pit! Someone smack me, hurry!

[BlinkingDuck]

When I was in grad school, I had an old Polish prof who would say things like "The first thousand problems you do of this type are challenging but then you get used to them and do well" (what a guy!)

So, using his wise words -- "The first thousand women you ask out will be depressing but then you get used to it and do well!"

WL - No shit. A thousand may be a little much but maybe you need to just ask out 10 women this month. You will get shot down, probably on all of them but it will get you used to asking women out. Also, you won't attach much damage to your ego since you know the odds are slim. However, by desensitizing yourself this way you will practice asking them out and probably develop a carefree attitude about it which will come off as confidence.

Of course, this could be a crappy idea and getting turned down will wear at the ego, but I don't think so. I think practice makes you better.

When I was dating, if I didn't know the woman well, I just asked her out direct. If I knew the woman, like she was a coworker or someone I would meet often I took a different tact. Whenever I was talking with her or within earshot and we were discussing weekend activities, I would bring up what I was going to do. Skydiving, fly a plane, whatever. The idea was to be seen as an person who fills his time doing interesting, different things. This would hopefully get her to be thinking that I would be a fun bf. It seemed to work, but it's hard to tell for sure but it seemed to work.

Blink

[Manda JO]

I am making a guess here, and I may not be describing your problem at all. If I am totally wrong, feel fre to ignore me.

There is a certain type of woman out there that Make Men Feel Good About Themselves. They have a knack for it: they don't do it on purpose, or to lead people on, or because they are heartless bitches. They are just nice people with a gift for making people (especially men) around them feel ten feet tall and bullet proof. Nerdy, insecure guys who are just now, for the first time, braving a step out into the world always fall for these women. They've never been treated like this before: their favorite song remmebered, thier birthday mysteriously discovered and rewarded with a card and cake, their talents ferreted out and complimented, thier absences commented on and their presence missed. Being treated like this is the perfect antidote to insecurity, to lonliness, to feeling like you don't belong. And since normal people would never pay so much attention to someone they weren't really interested in, what these guys miss when they fall for these girls is that these girls are like this with everyone. It's just who they are. And yes, these type of girls always, always, have boyfriends. Of course they do. They are wonderful people.

I don't know enough about the situation to conclude anything, but from my own experience with guys with stories like yours I suggest that you spend some time considering if the girls you have pursued fit into this pattern--girls who you have little or nothing in common with but whom you feel great being around. If they do, I suggest that you try and spend more time getting to know girls that are like you, girls you share interests and hobbies and worldviews with and not just girls that make you feel happy right from the start. Avoid the girls that any guy would want: go for the girls that any guy like you would want.

[BlinkingDuck]

I agree MandyJo. I said almost the same thing in another thread and won't repeat it here.

I disagree about the asking out someone you would be interested in rather than these naturally friendly women. The reason being that the OP was lamenting the fact that everyone has a bf. It's hard to be discriminating and limit your search when there is no-one in your search area to begin with!

I say ask many out. You will get shot down many times but may (and should) have some successes. THEN you can determine if they are right for you. Do multiple routes. Ask out directly, try to get set up through family/friends, go to nightclubs, do hobbies/volunteer in order to meet people with similar interests. Heck even answer a personals ad just to experiment.

I think the main problem these days is that single people of both sexes exist, they just have a really hard time meeting each other and that comes from lack of exposure.

Blink

[msmith537]

Originally posted by BlinkingDuck
You think it's bad now, wait about 3 years. By then every woman, and I do mean EVERY WOMAN, will have kids. ...

...Lightning, I was in the same boat as you but it took me until I was 23 (!) to get myself straightned out. By then 99.9% of women have kids and the rest are coo-coo. I felt I missed the boat. I eventually did marry but even then I had to 'steal' her AND she had a kid.

Where are you living that 99% of every girl over 23 has kids? My friends and I are all between 25 and 35 and there are a shitload of women out there who are single.

Here's my advice if you are looking to meet women:
1) You need to live in a major city like Chicago, NY or Boston.

2) Get a haircut and some fly gear. Don't dress like a pimp, but girls like guys who project success. Maybe go to the gym a little too. Looks do matter, but don't focus on them. You want NOT LOOKING like a dork to be automatic. You only want to worry about not ACTING like a dork.

3) Don't be afraid to go to bars and nightclubs to pick up women. Most people there are just regular people with jobs out having a good time. It's a good place to "practice" since it's expected that you're there to meet people.

3) Don't assume every girl who is nice to you is interested in dating you. Like Manda JO said, some girls are just nice people. The reason a lot of girls act aloof and bitchy is that when they act nice, guys start hounding them.

[Manda JO]

The reason being that the OP was lamenting the fact that everyone has a bf.

But see, that can't be true, their are actually slightly more women than men out there. What he is lamenting is that all the women he would consider going out with have boyfriends, and I was suggesting that that MAY indicate a tendency to exclusivly pursue the type of women that everyone wants, not the type of woman that is just right for the type of guy he is.

[jaimest]

While I wouldn't advocate "girl stealing" or other vulture-like behavior; you're never going to just have the woman of your dreams fall into your arms by magic. You will have to be a little ruthless; after all a girl might have a boyfriend, but that doesn't mean she's married and absolutely beyond reach. Maybe she is drifting in the doldrums of a lackluster relationship, merely waiting for a fresh gust of wind to fill her sails.
When I was 18, I was madly in love with a girl at school, but alas she had a boyfriend. I even heard that they were going to get married. Then one night, alone at home and miserable, I saw "The Graduate" for the first time. It just happened to be on cable that time, but after seeing it I said "by God if Dustin Hoffman can do it, so can I". So I gave it my best shot for a year or two, and while in the end she ditched him, strang me along for a day or two, and ended up marrying someone else, well I did what I could and don't regret anything. After all her mother was divorced.

[Cat Whisperer]

(Blinking Duck, that's just plain weird. Glad to hear it worked out for you in the end though. )
White Lightning, there's lots of ways to find out if the object of your burning desire is single or not.
Sample conversation;
You - "Hey, how was your weekend?"
Her - "Great. How was yours?"
You - "Not bad. We went to a club (whatever). What did you and your guy do?"
Her - "Nothing much. We just kinda hung around." or
Her - "I don't have a boyfriend."
You - "Oh, I thought you did for some reason. Must be thinking of someone else."
Walla, you got in in one.
or "What's your boyfriend's name again?"
"I don't have one."
"Oh, I thought you did for some reason. Must be thinking of someone else."
or any other opportunity that comes along for you to assume she has a boyfriend and give her an opportunity to tell you she doesn't. Or just ask her. If your interested anyway, what harm comes from her knowing it?

Oh yeah, I was going to say that internet dating can be very good for practice dating. Talk to people over the web, meet lots of them (safely), and learn from each meeting. I call it 'concentrated dating'. Same principle as job interviews; the more you do, the better you get at it.

(BTW,jaimest, that's a very odd story.)

[elfkin477]

Originally posted by msmith537

Where are you living that 99% of every girl over 23 has kids? My friends and I are all between 25 and 35 and there are a shitload of women out there who are single.

[/b]

I want to know the same thing as Msmith, where the hell do you live? I'm 24, so most of the girls I'm friends with are between 22 and 25. One of them has a kid. Most of them aren't even dating anyone. Maybe you should move to the north east.

[Cat Whisperer]

Ack! 'you're interested'. Who jinxed my keyboard?

[alice_in_wonderland]

Originally posted by BlinkingDuck
The rare ones that don't have kids will be screwed up mentally or something else making them very undesirable.

By then 99.9% of women have kids and the rest are coo-coo. I felt I missed the boat.

The only other viable choice during that time was a woman with no kids but a bit strange in the head - fun to be with but not have a family with.

Gee, aren't you nice.

On behalf of me, and all my single, attractive, over 23, childless friends, who are NOT coo-coo, and have careers, why don't you go fuck yourself, you colossal ASS.

ahem.

Al - single, childless, and certainly not coo-coo, although prone to fits of temper...

[alice_in_wonderland]

Hang in there guy - there are, infact, lots of nice single girls out there - just don't call them bitches, and you'll do just fine.

Al.

[Diane]

After all her mother was divorced.

Which has to do with the price of tea in China, how?

[jaimest]

Originally posted by Diane

Which has to do with the price of tea in China, how?

Do I really have to explain?

[BlinkingDuck]

Alright, I admit I'm coming off as an ass here and feel some desire to explain (one wonders why). I'll attempt to keep it brief and swear and swear I am not making this up or embellishing.

(leaving out HS/early college. They were pretty normal)

- Last two years of college dated woman and became engaged. After graduated moved in together in new town (rural WY) where I became a teacher. 6 months before wedding she dissappeared and found out she was committed. Turned out committed twice before. She really seemed normal but no family should have been a clue.

- First attempt after last was someone who felt that if I touched her without explicit permission then it was rape. She accused me of rape when I kissed her cheek when on a carnival ride. End of that, though I had to be the one end it for some reason.

- Met Opal and was dumped.

- Met nice lady, and was nice. Turned out she had 5 kids (by 24!) All with same man who died. She really was nice but didn't want 5 instant children.

- Met another woman with incurable and deadly veneral disease. Liked her but limited potential love interest wise. Still friends btw.

- Was asked out by very attractive woman who just moved in from out of state. Went out 2 times but could tell something wrong. At end of second date, she came clean and notified me that she was gay and was using me as 'cover'. (rural WY remember?). She was afraid of violence from community and wanted to keep me as a pretend bf. Told her no, told her names of 3 openly gay people in community and she didn't have any worries. Sent her on her way.

- Met woman who hated kids, cats and the color green with a passion. Very negative but fun (I know, weird). Had off/on relationship for quite awhile.

- Dated another woman with 2 kids. She was nice but the kids were holy terrors. Poor woman. The kids were so bad I just didn't want to take on that burden.

- Set up on blind date. Most overweight person I've seen. I'm not talking a little overweight but she probably topped 400 lbs. (no embellishing). I remember shaking her hand and it collapsed to half its width during the shake. (shiver). Almost lost a friend on that one - couldn't believe he set me up. He confessed had never seen her and was Wife's friends friend.

- Met nice woman, and went out twice. during second date, she confessed that she was being chased by something (boogeymen?). She didn't know what to do but when I was around they stayed away. At first I took it as some weird 'let's spend the night together' line but no, she was serious. I called her family to let them know and they didn't want to hear it and gave me number to her shrink.

- Met another woman who turned out to be pregnant (not by me!). She was scared and needed a father and supporter. Try the father?

- Asked woman out and accepted. Thursday night received phone call and she was really mad. I stood her up. No, I am sure it is tomorrow. She consults her calender and sees I am right. I then assure her I won't stand her up. She thinks a bit then calls it off saying 'I can't take this again'.

- Swung by to pick up my date. She insults car, insults me, then insults car before 5 minutes have gone by. Drive her back home. Shortest date - about 10 minutes.

- Another woman with 2 kids. Turned out she was a 'born again virgin'. No sex till marriage and felt strongly needed to live together for at least a year. That's cool, but she needed to find someone who wants kids and no sex.

This may sound like alot but it was over 5 years. All were in rural WY. When I moved to Minneapolis had several dates in a month, then met my wife. All were reasonable normal. Whoever said move to a big city was right. Stay out of rural areas, at least WY.

Sorry to bore you all. Blink

[matt_mcl]

Originally posted by Giraffe
4. Fuck the boyfriends. (Not literally.) [/b]

Hell - literally. Then you'll have something in common with the girl that you can chat about, yes?

[Helen's Eidolon]

Call me someone with more conservative values (ha ha), but I disagree with people about the "who cares if she has a boyfriend, go after her" line.

Maybe they are dating losers who aren't good for them, but... doesn't it show a fundemental disrespect for relationships to ask them out anyway?

Also, Giraffe said:

Girls like to be asked out. Even if they aren't interested or available, it's an ego boost to have someone interested in you.

This may be true for many girls, but not all. Trust me. For me, there is nothing more uncomfortable than when a guy friend of mine asks me out and I can't say yes (I'm terribly picky )

And WL, I know it seems hard but you'll find someone. This is just my optimism and personal experience thinking, but you will.

[Diane]

Do I really have to explain?

Well yeah, that's why I asked.

Are you implying that this girl's behavior is the result of her mother's divorce? Give me a break.

[kabbes]

Since jaimest had made a "Mrs Robinson" reference in his original post, I assumed that he meant that in the absence of a successful relationship with the daughter, he had a crack at the mother.

But I could be wrong.

pan