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  #51  
Old 08-15-2015, 06:51 AM
kayaker kayaker is online now
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Originally Posted by D'Anconia View Post
What is the point of RO threads in the Pit?
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Originally Posted by Snarky_Kong View Post
To express outrage...
In a recreational manner!
  #52  
Old 08-15-2015, 08:02 AM
Folacin Folacin is offline
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Originally Posted by MsRobyn View Post
Some right-wingers will start a Go Fund Me to raise the money to pay her fines. Or some organization will write the check for her. There's no way she can lose because either she becomes a martyr for the cause by going to jail, or she won't have to pay any fines out of her own pocket and she'll still be a martyr for the cause and allow her contributors to feel good about themselves.

The only way she can possibly lose is if she's removed from office and barred from holding any other elected or civil service position.
Tax law question - if she receives money from Go Fund Me, is that income? Would she have to pay taxes on it? It wouldn't be the same as carrying the full freight of the fine, but it would at least be something.

Although I'm guessing it would be the same as getting an inheritance, and not taxable to the recipient.
  #53  
Old 08-15-2015, 08:05 AM
HeXen HeXen is offline
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Go to another county, find another clerk. the solution to a problem did have a simple solution despite everything else since marriage itself is the end goal but it appears the end goal was really to be a drama queen.
  #54  
Old 08-15-2015, 08:09 AM
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It does not matter to me if this particular clerk, or any other similar clerk receives glory as a martyr or a million bucks in donations. I really don't care about that. What I would like to see is simply: Evil clerk loses job and is replaced by a good clerk who will issue licenses.
  #55  
Old 08-15-2015, 08:19 AM
kaylasdad99 kaylasdad99 is online now
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Originally Posted by HeXen View Post
Go to another county, find another clerk. the solution to a problem did have a simple solution despite everything else since marriage itself is the end goal but it appears the end goal was really to be a drama queen.
Maybe someone could publish a Green Book for Negro Motorists Gay Document Requesters.

IOW, fuck that noise.
  #56  
Old 08-15-2015, 08:51 AM
Folacin Folacin is offline
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Go to another county, find another clerk. the solution to a problem did have a simple solution despite everything else since marriage itself is the end goal but it appears the end goal was really to be a drama queen.
And if I don't have any transport to the next county seat? A quick check makes it seem like at least a round-trip of an hour to the next county seat. And how do I know that the clerk at the next county over is issuing same-sex licenses?
  #57  
Old 08-15-2015, 08:57 AM
Lord Feldon Lord Feldon is offline
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And if I don't have any transport to the next county seat? A quick check makes it seem like at least a round-trip of an hour to the next county seat. And how do I know that the clerk at the next county over is issuing same-sex licenses?
And what if you just don't want to? Same-sex marriage is the supreme law of the land now. It's no longer something that requires explanation, argument, evasion, or permission. Every last public official in the country made a binding oath, irrevocable during their time in office, that now requires them to treat same-sex couples equally.

Last edited by Lord Feldon; 08-15-2015 at 09:00 AM.
  #58  
Old 08-15-2015, 11:37 AM
Human Action Human Action is offline
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Originally Posted by D'Anconia View Post
How many SDMB posters even know where Rowan County, Kentucky IS?

Zero

And yet, the Mundane and Pointless RO is going in full force.
I do, I do! I've been there on several occasions, mostly to attend events at Morehead State University.

Am I allowed to oppose criminal activity there now? Need answer fast.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HeXen View Post
Go to another county, find another clerk. the solution to a problem did have a simple solution despite everything else since marriage itself is the end goal but it appears the end goal was really to be a drama queen.
We don't let county clerks violate the law, or decide what the law is. That's a bit above their pay grade.
  #59  
Old 08-15-2015, 12:23 PM
silenus silenus is offline
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Originally Posted by D'Anconia View Post
How many SDMB posters live in Rowan County, KY?

Zero

How many SDMB posters have loved ones in Rowan County, KY?

Zero

How many SDMB posters even know where Rowan County, Kentucky IS?

Zero

And yet, the Mundane and Pointless RO is going in full force.
Asshole. If you can't join in on the outrage, at least post something worthwhile. Otherwise just shut the fuck up and crawl back under your rock.
  #60  
Old 08-15-2015, 12:57 PM
magellan01 magellan01 is offline
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I don't disagree with you but there's more to it than just Kim Davis. There appears to be a whole county government structure that is backing her up.

The big question is why doesn't her boss (County Supervisor?) take action and remove an employee who refuses to do her job?

She's not an elected official. She has a chain of command to report to and apparently that chain of command is a whole list of people who are hiding behind her as she does the dirty work.

If I was the judge I'd be going after the whole lot of them.
This. Kinda. I view this as 1) an internal matter and 2) one in which the person ultimately in charge is responsible. So, let the courts go to her boss, or her boss's boss, and tell them that the person in that potion needs to be able to fulfill her duties ion accordance with the laws. Then the "boss" can either fire her or move her to another role where her duties do not conflict with her religious beliefs.
  #61  
Old 08-15-2015, 01:20 PM
John Mace John Mace is offline
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Originally Posted by D'Anconia View Post
How many SDMB posters live in Rowan County, KY?

Zero

How many SDMB posters have loved ones in Rowan County, KY?

Zero

How many SDMB posters even know where Rowan County, Kentucky IS?

Zero

And yet, the Mundane and Pointless RO is going in full force.
Would that be recreational outrage at recreational outrage?
  #62  
Old 08-15-2015, 03:12 PM
John Bredin John Bredin is offline
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Originally Posted by magellan01 View Post
This. Kinda. I view this as 1) an internal matter and 2) one in which the person ultimately in charge is responsible. So, let the courts go to her boss, or her boss's boss, and tell them that the person in that potion needs to be able to fulfill her duties ion accordance with the laws. Then the "boss" can either fire her or move her to another role where her duties do not conflict with her religious beliefs.
We're being wooshed, right? Because that was the point of the elected official discussion, not just nitpickery: having been elected, the rogue clerk has no "boss" but the voters.
  #63  
Old 08-15-2015, 03:17 PM
Snowboarder Bo Snowboarder Bo is offline
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magellan don't need none of your facts, John.
  #64  
Old 08-15-2015, 03:26 PM
Snarky_Kong Snarky_Kong is offline
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Originally Posted by HeXen View Post
Go to another county, find another clerk. the solution to a problem did have a simple solution despite everything else since marriage itself is the end goal but it appears the end goal was really to be a drama queen.
I don't understand why those Yazidis are being such drama queens. If you don't want to get beheaded, just leave Syria, don't complain about it, GAWD!
  #65  
Old 08-15-2015, 04:08 PM
Lacunae Matata Lacunae Matata is offline
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Originally Posted by magellan01 View Post
This. Kinda. I view this as 1) an internal matter and 2) one in which the person ultimately in charge is responsible. So, let the courts go to her boss, or her boss's boss, and tell them that the person in that potion needs to be able to fulfill her duties ion accordance with the laws. Then the "boss" can either fire her or move her to another role where her duties do not conflict with her religious beliefs.
As an elected official, there's no way to simply fire her, and from what I can ascertain, Kentucky has no procedure in place to recall an elected official. (Someone more knowledgeable, please correct me if I'm wrong.) However, this woman took an oath of office, and swore to uphold the Constitutions and laws of both the Commonwealth of Kentucky and the United States. Per the Supreme Court ruling, and the federal court ruling, she's derelict in her duties, and in contempt of the federal court ruling. Beyond being held in contempt of court, I don't know what legal remedies exist. But citizens of Rowan County shouldn't have to travel to exercise their civil rights, just because this woman believes that she's entitled to refuse to perform the job she campaigned for and gets paid to do.
  #66  
Old 08-15-2015, 04:45 PM
kaylasdad99 kaylasdad99 is online now
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Originally Posted by magellan01 View Post
This. Kinda. I view this as 1) an internal matter and 2) one in which the person ultimately in charge is responsible. So, let the courts go to her boss, or her boss's boss, and tell them that the person in that potion needs to be able to fulfill her duties ion accordance with the laws. Then the "boss" can either fire her or move her to another role where her duties do not conflict with her religious beliefs.
You didn't actually READ the thread beyond that post before responding to it, did you?
  #67  
Old 08-15-2015, 05:12 PM
D'Anconia D'Anconia is online now
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Originally Posted by John Mace View Post
Would that be recreational outrage at recreational outrage?
Maybe so.

When I posted, there were three RO threads by the same OP in the top ten on the BBQ Pit.

It's probably just me, but why bother getting outraged about things that you have no control over, and have nothing to do with you?
  #68  
Old 08-15-2015, 08:22 PM
magellan01 magellan01 is offline
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Originally Posted by Lacunae Matata View Post
As an elected official, there's no way to simply fire her, and from what I can ascertain, Kentucky has no procedure in place to recall an elected official. (Someone more knowledgeable, please correct me if I'm wrong.) However, this woman took an oath of office, and swore to uphold the Constitutions and laws of both the Commonwealth of Kentucky and the United States. Per the Supreme Court ruling, and the federal court ruling, she's derelict in her duties, and in contempt of the federal court ruling. Beyond being held in contempt of court, I don't know what legal remedies exist. But citizens of Rowan County shouldn't have to travel to exercise their civil rights, just because this woman believes that she's entitled to refuse to perform the job she campaigned for and gets paid to do.
I agree with this. She clearly can't be in the job. Someone must be able to remove her for something like dereliction of duty. Maybe the county commissioner, or if need be, the governor can appoint someone to do the job she won't until they figure out how to remove her.
  #69  
Old 08-15-2015, 08:23 PM
magellan01 magellan01 is offline
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You didn't actually READ the thread beyond that post before responding to it, did you?
No.

And?
  #70  
Old 08-15-2015, 11:51 PM
erysichthon erysichthon is offline
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Nitpick: Liberty Counsel isn't a law firm. It's an advocacy group that provides pro bono legal assistance, like the ACLU or Cato Institute. Except that unlike the ACLU it's full of assholes.
An editorial in the Lexington Herald-Leader contained some interesting information about Liberty Counsel:

Quote:
Sharing Davis' glow is Liberty Counsel, which describes itself as a nonprofit that provides pro bono legal representation related to "religious freedom, the sanctity of life, and the family," funded by tax-deductible donations and grants. In 2012 those gifts reached just over $3.5 million and in 2013 topped $4.1 million, according to IRS filings.

The husband and wife team who founded and run Liberty Counsel, Anita and Matthew Staver, were paid $137,758 and $153,591, respectively, in 2013. The staff of five ran up $184,479 in travel expenses that year and spent $429,584 on conferences, conventions and meetings. Liberty Counsel paid one independent contractor over $600,000 for "email alert services," and another almost $500,000 for printing and mail services. "Case costs," were reported at $105,487.
The founders of Liberty Counsel are monetizing the current "religious liberty" outrage. Hell, they probably want to lose cases, because that will fuel the outrage and increase their donations.
  #71  
Old 08-16-2015, 12:02 AM
susan susan is offline
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Gender nitpick: I believe Carol Stream was male.
  #72  
Old 08-16-2015, 12:08 AM
Rick Kitchen Rick Kitchen is offline
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It's probably just me, but why bother getting outraged about things that you have no control over, and have nothing to do with you?
Yeah, why bother worrying our pretty little heads about what's happening in Iraq and Syria?
  #73  
Old 08-16-2015, 08:03 AM
kayaker kayaker is online now
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It's probably just me, but why bother getting outraged about things that you have no control over, and have nothing to do with you?
Nothing to do with you who? I'm an American.
  #74  
Old 08-16-2015, 08:20 AM
RitterSport RitterSport is offline
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Originally Posted by Folacin View Post
And if I don't have any transport to the next county seat? A quick check makes it seem like at least a round-trip of an hour to the next county seat. And how do I know that the clerk at the next county over is issuing same-sex licenses?
(Bolding mine)

Or any licenses. As far as I can tell, Kim Davis stopped issuing marriage licenses of any sort.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NY Times Article
Kim Davis, the clerk in Rowan County, who says her Christian faith bars her from authorizing same-sex marriages, has refused to issue any licenses, either to same-sex or heterosexual couples after the historic ruling in June in the case of Obergefell v. Hodges. She has ignored a direct order from Gov. Steven L. Beshear that she do so.
  #75  
Old 08-16-2015, 08:25 AM
Lord Feldon Lord Feldon is offline
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Can you get married with a license from another county in Kentucky? You can't everywhere, and it would be pretty awful for someone to plan and pay for a whole wedding only to find out that a recalcitrant official has unilaterally banned all weddings in their county.

Last edited by Lord Feldon; 08-16-2015 at 08:27 AM.
  #76  
Old 08-16-2015, 12:05 PM
D'Anconia D'Anconia is online now
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Nothing to do with you who? I'm an American.
Are you a Kentuckian? A resident of Rowan County?
  #77  
Old 08-16-2015, 12:25 PM
Smapti Smapti is offline
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Go to another county, find another clerk. the solution to a problem did have a simple solution despite everything else since marriage itself is the end goal but it appears the end goal was really to be a drama queen.
Or we could try expecting civil servants to obey the law.
  #78  
Old 08-16-2015, 01:35 PM
42fish 42fish is offline
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Those good Christian Clerks are just following the teachings of Jesus, who famously said: "Gay people? Fuck those guys."

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Have you seen Him? They'll be lining up.
I thought dropzone's link would go to the painting showing that Jesus wasn't just crucified, he was hung, too.
  #79  
Old 08-16-2015, 01:48 PM
D'Anconia D'Anconia is online now
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Or we could try expecting civil servants to obey the law.
Like the civil servants in San Francisco, Chicago and other places that are so-called sanctuary cities?
  #80  
Old 08-16-2015, 01:52 PM
John Mace John Mace is offline
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Like the civil servants in San Francisco, Chicago and other places that are so-called sanctuary cities?
Which law are they breaking?
  #81  
Old 08-16-2015, 01:54 PM
running coach running coach is offline
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Like the civil servants in San Francisco, Chicago and other places that are so-called sanctuary cities?
The police being ordered by city officials not to enforce certain laws is not the same as a county clerk refusing to issue a license on their own accord.
  #82  
Old 08-16-2015, 02:02 PM
D'Anconia D'Anconia is online now
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Which law are they breaking?
Probably not the letter of the law, but definitely the spirit.

The federal government has the sole power to set immigration policy, not individual localities.
  #83  
Old 08-16-2015, 02:08 PM
D'Anconia D'Anconia is online now
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The police being ordered by city officials not to enforce certain laws is not the same as a county clerk refusing to issue a license on their own accord.
So the police are just following orders? That line of "reasoning" is baffling.
  #84  
Old 08-16-2015, 02:17 PM
running coach running coach is offline
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So the police are just following orders? That line of "reasoning" is baffling.
Isn't that part of their job?
  #85  
Old 08-16-2015, 02:24 PM
D'Anconia D'Anconia is online now
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Isn't that part of their job?
"I'm just following orders" has been used to justify all sorts of atrocities throughout history, so NO.
  #86  
Old 08-16-2015, 02:25 PM
Smapti Smapti is offline
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So the police are just following orders? That line of "reasoning" is baffling.
Yes, civil servants are expected to follow orders.

In the case of Kim Davis, she has been ordered, both by the governor and by the Supreme Court of the United States, to issue marriage licenses to same-sex couples, and she is refusing to follow those orders.
  #87  
Old 08-16-2015, 02:27 PM
D'Anconia D'Anconia is online now
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Yes, civil servants are expected to follow orders.

In the case of Kim Davis, she has been ordered, both by the governor and by the Supreme Court of the United States, to issue marriage licenses to same-sex couples, and she is refusing to follow those orders.
See above.
  #88  
Old 08-16-2015, 02:28 PM
Smapti Smapti is offline
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"I'm just following orders" has been used to justify all sorts of atrocities throughout history, so NO.
Because gay marriage is, of course, the first step in an inevitable slide towards a genocidal dystopia where rainbow-painted police cruisers rule the streets, hauling anyone caught practicing heterosexuality into reeducation camps and everyone is required to report to the now state-run churches in their finest leather bondage gear every Sunday to give thanks to President-For-Life Caitlyn Jenner.
  #89  
Old 08-16-2015, 02:29 PM
running coach running coach is offline
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"I'm just following orders" has been used to justify all sorts of atrocities throughout history, so NO.
That's too stupid to even deserve an answer.
  #90  
Old 08-16-2015, 02:35 PM
D'Anconia D'Anconia is online now
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That's too stupid to even deserve an answer.
Like all of your 18,000 posts?
  #91  
Old 08-16-2015, 02:36 PM
running coach running coach is offline
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"I'm just following orders" has been used to justify all sorts of atrocities throughout history, so NO.
On second thought, it does deserve a response.

Those who use that excuse are generally psychopaths and Randians who are unable to tell right from wrong.
  #92  
Old 08-16-2015, 02:39 PM
D'Anconia D'Anconia is online now
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Because gay marriage is, of course, the first step in an inevitable slide towards a genocidal dystopia where rainbow-painted police cruisers rule the streets, hauling anyone caught practicing heterosexuality into reeducation camps and everyone is required to report to the now state-run churches in their finest leather bondage gear every Sunday to give thanks to President-For-Life Caitlyn Jenner.
Sure, buddy.
  #93  
Old 08-16-2015, 02:42 PM
D'Anconia D'Anconia is online now
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On second thought, it does deserve a response.

Those who use that excuse are generally psychopaths and Randians who are unable to tell right from wrong.
What is wrong is five unelected judges in D.C. telling people in Rowan County, KY what to do.
  #94  
Old 08-16-2015, 02:43 PM
bobot bobot is offline
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Are you a Kentuckian? A resident of Rowan County?
...One of the actual people legally seeking a license?? Hmmmm?
  #95  
Old 08-16-2015, 02:49 PM
running coach running coach is offline
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Originally Posted by D'Anconia View Post
What is wrong is five unelected judges in D.C. telling people in Rowan County, KY what to do.
You mean those unelected judges who ruled in the Citizen's United case?

Do you even have a clue about the Constitution?

Last edited by running coach; 08-16-2015 at 02:52 PM.
  #96  
Old 08-16-2015, 02:57 PM
vivalostwages vivalostwages is offline
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Originally Posted by D'Anconia View Post
What is wrong is five unelected judges in D.C. telling people in Rowan County, KY what to do.
Well, here is how the process works:
http://people.howstuffworks.com/supr...ppointment.htm

Would you be okay with it if they had been elected?
  #97  
Old 08-16-2015, 02:58 PM
John Mace John Mace is offline
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Probably not the letter of the law, but definitely the spirit.

The federal government has the sole power to set immigration policy, not individual localities.
Being a Sanctuary City just means that local officials don't ask about the immigration status of people. Net-net, they figure it's the best thing to do in order to do their actual jobs and keeping their jurisdiction safe. It's a debatable point, but they don't generally break any laws. The feds can't require police to check the immigration status of people they encounter, AFAIK.

County clerks, OTHO, have to obey the law of the land, which right is that SSM is legal.
  #98  
Old 08-16-2015, 03:01 PM
vivalostwages vivalostwages is offline
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Originally Posted by D'Anconia View Post
What is wrong is five unelected judges in D.C. telling people in Rowan County, KY what to do.
Amen, cuz it's SLAVERY!!!
http://www.rightwingwatch.org/conten...-slavery-south
  #99  
Old 08-16-2015, 03:12 PM
D'Anconia D'Anconia is online now
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Being a Sanctuary City just means that local officials don't ask about the immigration status of people. Net-net, they figure it's the best thing to do in order to do their actual jobs and keeping their jurisdiction safe. It's a debatable point, but they don't generally break any laws. The feds can't require police to check the immigration status of people they encounter, AFAIK.
Take immigration out of the picture. Can San Francisco offer Sanctuary to murderers and be in compliance with federal laws?
  #100  
Old 08-16-2015, 03:24 PM
Boyo Jim Boyo Jim is offline
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This Judge Bunning must be a pussy. Why isn't Davis's ass in a jail cell for contempt?
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