One of the many relationship difficulties for nice guys is that they think women think the same way men do - that because they like nice women, that women must therefore like nice men, too. And that’s not the case.
This got me thinking: What is the women’s equivalent of the “nice guy problem?”
There are many possibilities. But I think that one plausible candidate for comparison would be high-powered career businesswomen or leader-/CEO-type women.
It’s not uncommon for such career/successful women to be single into their 30s or 40s despite wanting to be married. One reason might be that some such women think that because women are often drawn to powerful, educated, successful, commanding men, that therefore men are likewise drawn to such traits in women as well. In fact, many men do not find a woman’s advanced degrees or six-figure income to be a factor of attraction at all.
Now, someone may say, “But some such women *do *get happily married!” Well, yes - and some nice guys do get married, too.
So, in your opinion, is there any women’s equivalent to the nerd/geek/nice guy problem, and if so, what or who is it?
We’ve talked about this before, and I reject the idea of that “nice guy problem.” It’s a euphemistic way of describing either 1) narcissists who don’t understand they’re actually manipulative assholes or 2) cowards who never make their intentions clear. We already know why these guys strike out (or never even get up to bat) and it has nothing to do with being nice.
So, from that perspective on the term, the female equivalent is the wallflower. She thinks she can stand there and men will come running without her having to do anything to attract them.
In terms of the powerful and accomplished women you describe… I think if they’re honest with themselves, they’ve probably prioritized work over relationships. It’s more acceptable for men to do that than for women, but it’s not a great relationship strategy for anyone.
I think the closest I can think of that is popularized enough to be a trope is the woman who engages in physical intimacy in hopes of forming a long lasting romantic attachment. Of course, there are also a lot of women who are nice in the stereotypical “nice guy” ways, as well as men who want a relationship in addition to physical closeness when the woman doesn’t.
With regards to success, I think it’s more that their standards are higher than less successful people, which isn’t analogous to the “nice guy” problem at all. It’s more analogous to the successful guy who only goes out with attractive jerks and complains that he can’t find anyone nice.
I suspect that many wallflower women know that even though the cultural expectation is for men to pursue and women to be pursued, that this only works for attractive women. Some women are simply *not *pursued by men.
Women like nice men, there are lots of men who are nice who manage to get laid, dates, and/or married depending on preference. The actual problem is that ‘nice guys’ have a plethora of personal and relationship issues that they’re in denial about, aren’t actually as ‘nice’ as they like to think they are, and generally make themselves unattractive but don’t wish to acknowledge it. If someone says that women only go out with jerks, they’re insulting a lot of compassionate, hard working guys who date successfully, which isn’t nice. If someone genuinely complains about being put in the ‘friend zone’, that’s not actually nice either (seriously, you’re bitching that you have a friend.)
Some of the stuff is specific to cultural ideas of masculinity, some of it is not gender-specific. There are plenty of ‘nice’ boring women that don’t approach men or engage in the dating game and who end up ignored or rejected by guys they’re interested in. They aren’t as vocal about it online or with strangers as ‘nice guys’, but they definitely exist.
True - but male CEOs often don’t seek out female CEO types; in fact, I think it’s fairly common for highly successful or wealthy men to marry women who are much lower on the success/education/career ladder.
In my experience independence in a woman is a turn off for men.
I think most men want a woman who is delicate, who needs jars opened and bugs killed.
I am more the “pioneer woman type”. I can cook, keep the house clean, plow the crops and have no problem defending the homestead when he is off taking the cattle to market.
I believe I am this way because I grew up without a Dad in the house. I have always been very capable. I always have to remind myself to pause at a door and let the man open it for me. It seems so silly, not because I am a flag waving women’s libber; but because I have 2 arms 2 hands and I can open the door for both of us.
I think the most successful people in dating / relationships are those who understand that men and women think very differently. Those who think men and women think very similarly, often fail.
Your op is a good example, some women confuse what they want with what men want, and now high status and well off women are having trouble dating for many problems because they assumed what they want is what men want.
Another thing I notice is some women feel height is a selling point in a woman. It isn’t, women like tall men but men don’t necessarily feel the same way about tall women.
A woman who gives away sex too easily and a man who gives away compliments, resources or commitment too easily are both seen as easily exploitable.
The OP reminded me of this Onion article. It doesn’t match my experience, but I guess it could happen if the woman was too shy to go after someone. But such women are usually tomboyish, not generally the demure type.
Or all three of your examples could figure men who don’t like those things are free to f*#% right off and find someone who soothes their narrow sense of femininity.
There are two things that might help shed some light on women for some of you:
Lots of women do/learn/achieve/wear things because they like to, not because they’re trying to snag a man.
The thing is, there really isn’t a nice guy problem, per se. Guys who are legitimately, actually nice guys don’t really have a dating problem. At least not in the overall sense - they might have a contemporaneous lack of dates, but everyone has that at least occasionally.
The men that have the dating problem that gets referred to as the “Nice Guy” problem are generally speaking not actually nice guys at all. Hence the reason why “nice guy” in that sense is almost always either capitalized or surrounded with scare quotes or both. It’s pretty much an acknowledgement that there are a class of men who think they’re nice guys - and who present themselves as such - but who are, in reality, nothing of the freaking sort.
Speak for yourself. I’ve always been a nice guy to women and never had any problem with starting relationships. I know for a fact that for being considerate of what the woman wanted strengthened the relationships.
I’m kidding.
I think the phenomenon the OP is looking for is “just one of the guys” or “like a sister”.
That is to say, the otherwise attractive girl who wears the football jersey and watches the game and drinks beer (or whatever the equivalent for your particular subculture) runs the risk of turning into “just one of the guys” where they “would never hook up with her…she’s like a sister!”
Exactly, it’s not being a nice guy that’s the problem it’s having the Nice Guy Syndrome whereby you think that the world owes you a date for some reason. What would be a woman’s version of the Nice Guy Syndrome?
Several others have hit around your mis-thinking here, but you are confusing nice with meekness/insecure and not nice with confidence. Women definitely like guys with confidence as opposed to unconfident guys. But you can be nice and confident. It just so happens that many un-nice guys are confident/arrogant about themselves as well. It is the confidence that women are attracted to, not the bad-boy behavior.
