According to a website:
Why is it such an unspeakable offense?
Not only the Marines - other military branches as well.
I’ve been told that “repeat” means “repeat that last fire order”, i.e. “shoot again”.
It’s been a long time since I trained on FIST (Fire Support) procedures, but I don’t specifically recall “repeat” being a huge deal other than being an easy word to misundersand over a bad radio link. “Say again” was the preferred term. “Fire for effect” is a much more devastating term with respect to calling for artillery fire. Usually one gun is used while the observer calls back corrections. When the area is hit or nearly hit, the call “Fire for effect” means to bring the other 5 guns in the battery into the fray or even a whole battalion, depending on the target.
I’ll try to find my FIST manual this afternoon if I have time. Better yet, I’ll ask my brother; he was a MLRS crewman in Desert Storm (A btry 158FA, OKARNG “Steel Rain”). I was a mere MP which meant I had to know a little about a wide variety of military specialties. FA guys would know a lot more.
I was an M1A1 tank crewmember in the Army. Part of our job is to “call for fire” (call in an Artillery strike). “Repeat” means you want them to fire another volley. Not a good word to just toss around.
“Send three and fourpence, the regiment is going to a dance.”
Heh. That’s pretty good, Andy. Can you tell me the story behind that one?
May I ask a related question? What does the term “actual” mean to the Marines, as used in Full Metal Jacket?
Andy:
Could someone enlighten a civilian on this one?
What I think Andy is saying is, “send reinforcements–the regiment is going to advance.”
>> In the Marine Corps, the use of the word “repeat” on the radio is strictly forbidden
This had its origin when a marine radio operator transmitted to his buddy :“Pete and Repete, joined the marines. When Pete was killed in action, who was left?”. They engaged in a series of messages which took so long to clarify that the major part of the war was over by then. The order was issued which would prevent such thing from ever happening again.
When I was a Radio Operator we were told not to use repeat unless we were on an artillery net and intended to ask for another shell.
“say again” was used instead with the proper response being “I say again…”
Thanks to everyone for their help. Makes sense to me.
Coincidentally, my original question arose from reading the Full Metal Jacket goofs at IMDB.
Interesting thread.
In Private Pilot training, we are taught radio protocols that filtered down to us from the military. I was taught to use “say again”, although I never knew about the artilary implications of “repeat”.
Many words and procedures have been in place since WWII. For instance, the number 9 is always pronounced “niner”. According to my manual, this was to distinguish between the number and the German word “nein” for “no”.
I recently read in a pilot magazine of an instructor who teaches his students not to use the words “for” or “to” in radio communications, because they can be confused with numbers. So rather than telling a controller, “Cessna 1234X direct to LaGuardia, at 2000 climbing for 3000”, he would advise pilots to instead say: "
“Cessna 1234X direct LaGuardia, 2000 feet, climb 30000.” Less ambiguity, and a slightly shorter transmission.
An old joke. A slightly different and older version runs along the lines of a Sig sending the transmission “Send reinforcements, army advancing on West flanks”. This was received at HQ, transcribed and delivered to the Colonel as “Send three and fourpence. Amy dancing on wet planks.”
OK, I looked it up on an old USAREUR GTA card. When calling for fire, grid coordinates of the target and himself and target type are given so that the battery can train a tube on the target and select appropriate ammunition type. A spotting round is fired and the observer will correct the fall of the round. If, for example the shell hits 400 meters in front of the target, he would send “Up 4”. If the hit is ambiguous, i.e. obscured by terrain, smoke, etc, “Repeat” would be in order. Once the spotting round is close or on target “Left 1 and fire for effect” or some such is sent to have the full battery or battalion fire all at once for a full saturation effect. I’ve been down at Ft Sill during training exercises observing some OKARNG FA units doing their annual training. Seeing a whole 155mm battalion’s rounds impact the target area at one time is quite a sight to behold. Even more impressive is the effect of a single battery of MLRS.
parkov, “actual” means that the person actually assigned a particular callsign is the one talking on the radio. Often, a commander will have a radio-telephone operator, or RTO, monitoring his radio and relaying orders. If he gets on the radio himself, he will use the word “actual”, as in “Hotel Six, Actual” to inform the other parties that this is really him giving the order and it is not subject to negotiation or creative interperetation.
I had heard that “nine” and “five” sound too similar so “niner” is used to distinguish the two.
Haj
sewalk says:
Interesting - we used phonetic P (“Papa”) to denote that it was, in fact, the guy behind the callsign on the air. Always giggled at the paternal overtones. The radio operator had to settle for O (“Oscar”) - I was one.
There’s another reason for never using an unauthorized word: Communication, especially over noisy radios (and often carried out in a stressful, noisy environment as well) simply go easier and faster if the words used are the same each and every time - responding correctly gets to be almost a reflex. That saves time on the air, making for longer lives for batteries and radio operators alike.
S. Norman
Papa for Primary and Oscar for Operator are in current use, but in 1968(the setting for the second half of FMJ), the US Military’s phonetic alphabet was not standardized like it is today. Radio procedures were a bit more haphazard 33 years ago but all the basic principles were in place.
FWIW, “niner” has fallen out of favor and the correct pronounciation of “5” is “fife”. “Nein” is infrequently encountered, even on German radio nets. “Yes” and “No” are verboten in US radio procedure and similar rules apply in the German military, so I was told so by an instructor in the German Field Artillery School at Idar Oberstein. “Niner” emerged as a way to differentiate 9 from 5, not 9 from the German negative.
Long D.: who were you with?
Oh boy, now we got two track toads together. Better stop 'em from holding hands. 