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Old 05-26-2016, 09:01 AM
AK84 AK84 is offline
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2016 European Cup Final, Real v Atletico

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Ok,now that I got that out of my system, its on Saturday at the San Siro. For the second time in three years its an all-Madrid final, Real won the last one in 2014. Who do you think will win.

I suspect Atletico might, they are clearly a better team (as opposed to a collection of individual superstars that are Real), but with a forward line of Bale, Benzema and CR7, who knows.
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Old 05-26-2016, 12:04 PM
madsircool madsircool is online now
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Atletico on PKs. CR7 will be playing injured.
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Old 05-27-2016, 07:35 AM
Jackknifed Juggernaut Jackknifed Juggernaut is offline
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While I think Ronaldo is still the best player in the world, and want him to win more silverware, I think Atleti deserve it more. RM shouldn't be rewarded for their total mismanagment, e.g. Firing quality managers on a whim. Plus Simeone is a truly great manager who really deserves the top prize in club football.

What's interesting is that RM's offense has been pretty feeble on the road, and Atletico's vaunted defense has been shown to have holes away from the Vicente Calderon. Since neither will be home, I expect a 1-0 score regardless of who wins. But I'm hoping for some moments of brilliance from Griezmann and Ronaldo and won't be terribly disappointed no matter who wins so long as it's a good game.
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Old 05-27-2016, 02:25 PM
AK84 AK84 is offline
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I just want to see Fernando Torres destroy a defence, the way he used to in his prime, one more time before he ends up in MLS or China.

I remember how he used to be like a cat playing with its prey, against Vidic and Rio. He has traumatised Lahm, everytime Lahm sees him its clear that he would rather be a million miles away.

Last edited by AK84; 05-27-2016 at 02:27 PM.
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Old 05-28-2016, 10:25 AM
Sampsiceramos Sampsiceramos is offline
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I'm expecting Simeone to have his team fired up like sharks in a literal bloodbath - this is about as good of a chance as they'll get to exact revenge for the 2014 final and redeem themselves after the pitiful collapse in extra time.

It could be a tight game, but I could also see Atleti coming out in an absolute frenzy and just dismantling Madrid. As someone who loathes Florentino Perez and everything Real Madrid has ever stood for under his stewardship, I hope it's the latter and they're embarrassed on the biggest stage.

Last edited by Sampsiceramos; 05-28-2016 at 10:26 AM.
  #6  
Old 05-28-2016, 10:28 AM
VestibularVirus03 VestibularVirus03 is offline
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I want Saul to do what he did to Bayern. Dribble , cut inside , shoot and score. He's their best player at the moment , imo. Also Torres to score would be also great. I miss his Liverpool days when he was such a monster...
  #7  
Old 05-28-2016, 11:26 AM
Jackknifed Juggernaut Jackknifed Juggernaut is offline
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I think I've done a 180 on this match. There is enough offensive quality on both sides that they should each be able to score. I now predict a 2-1 win for Atleti, after a low scoring 1st half.

Eta: this game is easily capable of producing an early red card, which would change everything.

Last edited by Jackknifed Juggernaut; 05-28-2016 at 11:28 AM.
  #8  
Old 05-28-2016, 01:37 PM
AK84 AK84 is offline
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Opening ceremony; has Alicia Keys for some reason.

Last edited by AK84; 05-28-2016 at 01:39 PM.
  #9  
Old 05-28-2016, 01:39 PM
Jackknifed Juggernaut Jackknifed Juggernaut is offline
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Opening ceremony; has Alicia Keys for some reason.
Can't see the connection but excellent choice. Couldn't get Adele? I think Bocelli sang or will sing as well.
  #10  
Old 05-28-2016, 02:10 PM
Jackknifed Juggernaut Jackknifed Juggernaut is offline
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1-0 Real in 20th minute. Not really RM's style to park the bus. But perfectly capable of doing it with Casemiro, Ramos and Pepe. Let's see.
  #11  
Old 05-28-2016, 02:28 PM
Go_Arachnid_Laser Go_Arachnid_Laser is offline
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Can't see the connection but excellent choice. Couldn't get Adele?
Pepsi is promoting the event.
  #12  
Old 05-28-2016, 02:37 PM
Sampsiceramos Sampsiceramos is offline
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Real Madrid ahead on a blatantly offside goal by Sergio Ramos. I suppose expecting a ref quartet consisting of Clattenburg, Marriner et al to have eyes in their fucking heads was asking too much. Worst choice of referees I've seen for a while - Clattenburg is almost certain to bungle at least one high-impact call per game and routinely lets games get out of hand.
  #13  
Old 05-28-2016, 02:44 PM
Jackknifed Juggernaut Jackknifed Juggernaut is offline
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Real Madrid ahead on a blatantly offside goal by Sergio Ramos. I suppose expecting a ref quartet consisting of Clattenburg, Marriner et al to have eyes in their fucking heads was asking too much. Worst choice of referees I've seen for a while - Clattenburg is almost certain to bungle at least one high-impact call per game and routinely lets games get out of hand.
It was very clear offsides and the Fox announcers in the US broadcast didn't even question it. Poor announcing and makes you wonder. I'm not watching half time but hopefully at least they discuss it. Really need a make up call for Atleti. Should've been disallowed.
  #14  
Old 05-28-2016, 02:51 PM
Sampsiceramos Sampsiceramos is offline
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Originally Posted by Jackknifed Juggernaut View Post
It was very clear offsides and the Fox announcers in the US broadcast didn't even question it. Poor announcing and makes you wonder. I'm not watching half time but hopefully at least they discuss it. Really need a make up call for Atleti. Should've been disallowed.
If Clattenburg doesn't get his act together (really bloody fucking unlikely, given that the man is an absolute imbecile in addition to apparently being legally blind) I'm pretty much expecting the game to turn into an all-out brawl that makes the Chelsea vs Tottenham debacle look like a petty tiff. Could easily see more than a single direct red considering that Clattenburg is unbelievably card-shy until players start literally hacking each other down.

Credit to Zidane, though - Real are approaching the situation perfectly. Atleti are at their worst when they have to dictate play. It'll be interesting to see what Carrasco on for Augusto Fernandez does for them; personally I'd rather have seen Correa given that he's generally better in limited space.

Last edited by Sampsiceramos; 05-28-2016 at 02:52 PM.
  #15  
Old 05-28-2016, 02:58 PM
Sampsiceramos Sampsiceramos is offline
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Griezmann misses a penalty. Un-fucking-believable. Florentino Perez must have hired some witch to curse this team.
  #16  
Old 05-28-2016, 03:36 PM
Mr Shine Mr Shine is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jackknifed Juggernaut View Post
It was very clear offsides and the Fox announcers in the US broadcast didn't even question it. Poor announcing and makes you wonder. I'm not watching half time but hopefully at least they discuss it. Really need a make up call for Atleti. Should've been disallowed.
Offside is singular. It should not be pluralised when talking about association football.

Last edited by Mr Shine; 05-28-2016 at 03:36 PM.
  #17  
Old 05-28-2016, 03:45 PM
Sampsiceramos Sampsiceramos is offline
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In Clattenburg's defense (and I say this with the utmost reluctance) he's officiated the second half very well. A lot of refs would have given Ramos a direct red for that tackle on Carrasco, but he's not the last man, and Carrasco isn't free on goal by any means. Good on him for carding Gabi as well - as much as I like Atleti, they have a really obnoxious habit (common to all Spanish teams, really) of crowding the ref, and Clattenburg was right to draw the line.
  #18  
Old 05-28-2016, 04:21 PM
eschereal eschereal is offline
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Both players getting a yellow on one play? That just seems wrong.
  #19  
Old 05-28-2016, 04:25 PM
Sampsiceramos Sampsiceramos is offline
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Both players getting a yellow on one play? That just seems wrong.
One gets it for the actual foul, the other for unsportsmanlike behaviour. Technically two separate incidents.
  #20  
Old 05-28-2016, 04:37 PM
Sampsiceramos Sampsiceramos is offline
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SPOILERS BELOW

.
.
.
.
.

YOU WERE WARNED

Guts me to see Real win it. Not just because Atleti arguably deserved it more, but particularly because Pepe is a disgusting, despicable, loathsome diver and violent sociopath that belongs behind bars, not on a football pitch. Clattenburg fucked up criminally by not sending him off for his second blatant dive and attempt at drawing a red card.

Last edited by Sampsiceramos; 05-28-2016 at 04:39 PM.
  #21  
Old 05-28-2016, 05:31 PM
Snarky_Kong Snarky_Kong is offline
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Marcelo and Ronaldo are hard to root for as well.
  #22  
Old 05-28-2016, 06:47 PM
Bijou Drains Bijou Drains is online now
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It's a total joke to decide this on penalty kicks. American sports have lots of problems, but at least they keep playing to get a winner.
  #23  
Old 05-28-2016, 07:33 PM
Sampsiceramos Sampsiceramos is offline
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It's a total joke to decide this on penalty kicks. American sports have lots of problems, but at least they keep playing to get a winner.
The fact of the matter is that with substitutions limited to 3 per game, association football needs penalty kicks. It's an unfortunate evil, but nonetheless a necessary one - association football simply isn't a game that can be played for much more than 120 minutes before the body starts to give out - that much was evident at the end of the game, where even notorious ironmen like Filipe Luis and Koke had to be carried off the pitch with intractable cramping.

You'd have to either allow significantly more substitutions or change some other aspect of the game fundamentally if you wanted to do away with penalties. The players are simply physically incapable of much more than regulation + 2 halves of extra time. The only real alternative to overtime + PKs is scheduling replays, but that was done away with for very good reason.

This particular game, however, did not deserve penalties. The only goal scored by Real Madrid was a blatant offside, and Pepe should have been sent off and conceded a penalty for essentially suplexing Carrasco in the penalty box and then blatantly simulating for a second time. Clattenburg refereed well overall, but as is wont to happen to referees on the big stage, his balls, spine, and eyes went missing in action in the most critical, match-deciding moments.

Last edited by Sampsiceramos; 05-28-2016 at 07:37 PM.
  #24  
Old 05-28-2016, 08:19 PM
madsircool madsircool is online now
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At least he didnt award anyone three yellow cards
  #25  
Old 05-28-2016, 08:19 PM
Bijou Drains Bijou Drains is online now
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why not allow more subs? What's the rationale behind only allowing 3? Tradition?

I went to an NHL playoff game that went almost 120 minutes. And yes I know the players have shifts but the best players were on the ice about 60 minutes of 120. And they are wearing a lot of pads and skating is very taxing on the body. They do get 15 minute breaks between overtime periods. However there are no TV time outs in OTs.
  #26  
Old 05-28-2016, 08:32 PM
Sampsiceramos Sampsiceramos is offline
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Being on the ice for 60 minutes out of 120 still only amounts to spending 50% of the game actually doing something, whereas 8/11 players on each team (of which one will be the goalkeeper, and so to whom this does not really apply in the same way) must be on the pitch for the entire 120 minutes in a game of association football that goes into overtime, in which time they will generally cover at least 14-15 kilometres of ground (many of these at a sprint), tussle with opponents for the ball, and leap well into the air to contest aerial balls. The only rest is the intermission between regulation halves and the tiny, tiny (think 5 minutes or less) breaks between overtime halves.

With regards to why only 3 subs are allowed, those are and have for as long as I can remember been the rules of the game, and it is unlikely to be changed within my lifetime.

Last edited by Sampsiceramos; 05-28-2016 at 08:32 PM.
  #27  
Old 05-28-2016, 08:37 PM
Bijou Drains Bijou Drains is online now
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From what I can tell football people would rather burn in hell than change a rule right? And they certainly don't want to follow any rule from an American sport like hockey? (by allowing more subs) They would rather drink poison than do that.

So they would rather sit there with a crappy ending that no other major sport has. (but I could be wrong on that)

Last edited by Bijou Drains; 05-28-2016 at 08:37 PM.
  #28  
Old 05-28-2016, 08:43 PM
Jackknifed Juggernaut Jackknifed Juggernaut is offline
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From what I understand, no substitutions were allowed throughout most of the history of the game. Additionally, the game is naturally a 90 minute game and extra time only occurs in cup elimination games. Thus there should be no reason not to give 3 additional subs for extra time. That said, I still don't think there's any reasonable substitute for PK's except replays. But they are just impractical for big tournaments.
  #29  
Old 05-28-2016, 08:46 PM
Bijou Drains Bijou Drains is online now
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I've played hockey and soccer. And with all the pads for hockey you get tired a lot faster. and of course pro hockey has hitting too which takes a toll on your body.
  #30  
Old 05-28-2016, 08:48 PM
Sampsiceramos Sampsiceramos is offline
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Originally Posted by Bijou Drains View Post
From what I can tell football people would rather burn in hell than change a rule right? And they certainly don't want to follow any rule from an American sport like hockey? (by allowing more subs) They would rather drink poison than do that.

So they would rather sit there with a crappy ending that no other major sport has. (but I could be wrong on that)
You realize that several major hockey tournaments including the World Cup have games decided by penalty strokes if no winner is found at the end of regulation, yes?

Penalty strokes, penalty kicks, etc are a necessary evil that can only really be substituted be a complete replay of the game when it comes to knockout games - to think that simply forcing the players to play until one side collapses and dies on the pitch if no goals are scored is a better resolution is inane at best.

Edit: Bijou Drains, are you here to discuss the Champion's League final, or are you here to bloviate about the superiority of American sports over association football? You are entitled to dislike association football, or whatever it is that your opinion is, but methinks it is entirely irrelevant to this thread.

Last edited by Sampsiceramos; 05-28-2016 at 08:49 PM.
  #31  
Old 05-28-2016, 08:52 PM
Bijou Drains Bijou Drains is online now
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which hockey tourneys were decided on penalty shots? What years? None in the US at least in a long time. Maybe that very lame tourney they have in Europe each spring which is full of lesser NHL players? Nobody in the US cares about that since it's held during NHL playoffs.

A necessary evil is still evil right?

Last edited by Bijou Drains; 05-28-2016 at 08:54 PM.
  #32  
Old 05-28-2016, 08:54 PM
Sampsiceramos Sampsiceramos is offline
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Bloviating about the superiority of American sports it is, I see. Well, I have no intention of engaging you further.
  #33  
Old 05-28-2016, 09:05 PM
Bijou Drains Bijou Drains is online now
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I said above American sports have many problems, they just don't have the problem of penalty kicks/shots to decide a title. (post #22)
  #34  
Old 05-28-2016, 09:55 PM
Dale Sams Dale Sams is offline
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Unlimited subs after 90 minutes.
  #35  
Old 05-29-2016, 03:30 AM
russian heel russian heel is offline
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I agree penalties are a bad way to settle a championship, but its a situation factored into managers strategies, believe me. All part of the Game.

Diego Simeone is a force of nature as a manager. He will win a Champions League Trophy either with AM or elsewhere, mark my words. Been following him since he managed River Plate, he knows how to extract blood from a stone when it comes to this sport.
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Old 05-29-2016, 03:47 AM
Asympotically fat Asympotically fat is online now
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Before penalty kicks games were settled by replays, which is just not practical for a major final these days (though they're still used in the earlier rounds of the FA Cup for example).
  #37  
Old 05-29-2016, 05:26 AM
Sampsiceramos Sampsiceramos is offline
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I agree penalties are a bad way to settle a championship, but its a situation factored into managers strategies, believe me. All part of the Game.

Diego Simeone is a force of nature as a manager. He will win a Champions League Trophy either with AM or elsewhere, mark my words. Been following him since he managed River Plate, he knows how to extract blood from a stone when it comes to this sport.
Arguably, Diego Simeone is likely to struggle disproportionately at a club larger than Atleti. His system requires every player on the pitch to work extremely hard for all 90 minutes - something that he is unlikely to be able to enforce on a team with 2-3 "superstars."
  #38  
Old 05-29-2016, 08:44 AM
Jackknifed Juggernaut Jackknifed Juggernaut is offline
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Unlimited subs after 90 minutes.
The problem with this is that the dozen or so super clubs in Europe, that have benches full of world class players, would have even bigger advantages in extra time. They might even be incentivized to drag the game out, which would change the game. I think 3 additional subs for extra time is reasonable. And I think these would have to be made right at the beginning of extra time, not during play.
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Old 05-29-2016, 09:55 AM
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Just eliminate the goal keeper in ET.
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