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Old 04-28-2016, 04:07 AM
GuanoLad GuanoLad is offline
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Captain America: Civil War - Seen it! [spoilers ahoy]

Captain America 3: Civil War is officially released worldwide today, ahead of America (in your face, USA!) who get it next week, and I went to see it this morning.

As you'd expect from Marvel, it is really good. Directed by the same guys who did Winter Soldier (and the next Avengers movie), the Russo Brothers, it deals with the aftermath of the swathe of destruction the Avengers have left in their wake, and more importantly the differing points of view they have on their responsibilities. Should they be reined in or left untethered? Tony Stark says they should be kept in check, Steve Rogers says they should not.

It's more of an Avengers 2.5, because it includes a long list of characters, many of whom have not been in a CA film before (Iron Man, War Machine, Hawkeye, Ant-Man, Vision, Scarlet Witch), and including a few new additions (Black Panther, Spider-Man). It gets a bit crowded, and it doesn't help that the bad guy kind of looks like Bucky Barnes, which confused me for a while.

It's a great film, it handles the same ground Batman v Superman does but properly and carefully, and true to the characters they've set up in the movies. You care about everyone, and best of all the fights all happen in bright daylight.

Though I enjoyed it and look forward to what's coming next, I did realise there were no scenes that made me want to watch the movie a second time. So there wasn't much truly distinctive about it, it mostly felt like more of the same but still great.

It did make me excited for both Black Panther's and Spider-Man's upcoming movies, though.
  #2  
Old 04-28-2016, 04:12 AM
Walker in Eternity Walker in Eternity is offline
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Hoping to see it this weekend. Who dies is the big question?
  #3  
Old 04-28-2016, 04:23 AM
GuanoLad GuanoLad is offline
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Originally Posted by Walker in Eternity View Post
Hoping to see it this weekend. Who dies is the big question?
That certainly is a big question.

Not telling.
  #4  
Old 04-28-2016, 07:20 AM
DarkFire DarkFire is offline
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Saw it at midnight here and thought they nailed it.

Won't give too many actual spoilers despite of what the title implies.
But here's a few things that I absolutely loved.
- It's NOT the comic book Civil War, not by a long shot. But like the books both sides have a good point which gets more blurred as the story advances.

- As mentioned, there's a lot of players but all of them have a reason for being there, some of them have character development too!
- Spider-man is awesome and completely fits in. He is the way he should be, makes jokes to hide his nerves being there with these big guns but hold his ground in the actual fight because he's Spider-man, damnit.
- More of Winter Soldier background including one thing you can see coming from a mile away but still hurts when it actually plays out.
- Black Panther's introduction is well done. You see very little of Wakanda but it's easy to read between the lines and realize BP and Wakanda are about to make an impact.
- The end actually doesn't follow the standard "let's gear up for the huge battle scene" scenario for once.

If there's one thing I can see people being disappointed in, it's the villain.
But my response to that is that he's more believable for not being the usual impossible-to-beat-until-the-end type of guy.
His motivations also make sense and it's interesting to see how the Avengers (both sides) fail to understand what he's after because they look at the big picture/ramifications only and not the personal ones.
  #5  
Old 04-28-2016, 07:32 AM
GuanoLad GuanoLad is offline
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Oh, here's something. Like Ant-Man did with Michael Douglas, the achievement of a young Tony Stark is amazing! This level of CGI opens up incredible possibilities for the future.
  #6  
Old 05-01-2016, 03:55 AM
galen ubal galen ubal is offline
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Excellent use of two and a half hours.
Lots of characters, but as mentioned, it feels like they all have a reason to be there. Several get only a few lines, but they manage to convey the characters they've already established.
Yes, there is a mid-credit and an after credits scene. Yes, Stan Lee makes a cameo.
  #7  
Old 05-02-2016, 09:35 AM
Zsofia Zsofia is offline
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Saw it at a military base on Saturday. Eh. I mean there was a lot of great stuff in it but it seemed like it wanted to have it both ways - have "real moral issues" but not really, you know, talk about them in a truly adult way. (You're talking about going under UN peacekeeping authority but nobody says "Rwanda", for example, but you want to talk about why and why not...) Also a lot of it was people changing their minds and doing things just because the plot required it to get them somewhere else, plus there was a bit of Idiot Plot in there for a good long while.

Also that fight scene in the middle was stupid. I'm sorry, it was dumb. I got the feeling that some exec said "you know what people want to see? Superheroes fight! You know what they want to see more of? MORE SUPERHEROES FIGHTING!" It was so... look, with the way they fight in Marvel movies you can't tell if they're really trying to hurt each other or not, and that handicaps the hell out of that sort of thing. Spider-man is there for zero reason except to, I dunno, paint Tony Stark as even more of a reckless idiot than he generally is. (Let's recap: he went and recruited an actual child to go to war against a WWII combat vet, an Afghanistan combat vet, a mind-controlled Soviet assassin, a... whatever Hawkeye is but he definitely kills the shit out of people, and an ex-con. Of that charming bunch of people only the ex-con is not a stone cold killer.) The whole thing felt like something a studio exec excitedly plotted out on a brunch table with salt shakers and napkins.

That being said, all the small emotional moments worked like gangbusters. Steve and Tony were pretty heartbreaking. I just think that the problems with it are problems that I see in most of the current crop of superhero movies and it's making them less and less interesting, and harder and harder to steer well.
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Old 05-02-2016, 10:06 AM
Zsofia Zsofia is offline
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OH, and one more villain who makes no impression or sense. (Seriously, sit down and think, for a bit, about exactly what that dude's plan was. Yeah. Really think about it.) It turned into a weird McGuffin storyline by the end, which is not necessarily a bad thing but here it was. Ugh, I'm mad just thinking about the silliness of that plot.

Without real spoilers let me point out that he had no idea there was any more proof about 1991 than was already in the publicly available papers, albeit encrypted. Trust me, Reddit was on it. How long did it take for those Panama Papers to have long and full articles written about who was in them?

Last edited by Zsofia; 05-02-2016 at 10:09 AM.
  #9  
Old 05-03-2016, 04:14 AM
Walker in Eternity Walker in Eternity is offline
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I saw it yesterday and really enjoyed it, the only downside for me was, sadly, Spiderman.

A few plot holes, but nothing I couldn't cope with. Liked the Black Panther and seeing more of the Winter Soldier.
  #10  
Old 05-03-2016, 05:06 PM
obfusciatrist obfusciatrist is offline
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Saw it. Haven't yet really decided how much I liked it but if nothing else it really drives home just how inept Batman v. Superman is.

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Originally Posted by Walker in Eternity View Post
Hoping to see it this weekend. Who dies is the big question?
The answer to that question is one of my issues with the movie. If handled differently I think it would have taken things to the next level of quality.

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Originally Posted by GuanoLad View Post
Oh, here's something. Like Ant-Man did with Michael Douglas, the achievement of a young Tony Stark is amazing! This level of CGI opens up incredible possibilities for the future.
Interesting. I thought it looked like very obvious CGI. Very plastic looking.

One thing I really liked is that they had a movie with real tension and conflict without it requiring an existential threat to the country, planet, universe.

Didn't like Ant-Man any more than I did in his own movie and despite the joke about Captain America's shield not following any of the laws of physics the complete stupidity of the physics of Ant-Man continues to annoy me more than entertain.

Also didn't like that the movie required villain omniscience. If one bullet had missed/hit a target. If one CIA agent hadn't cheated a bit. If one of an infinite number of little things had gone differently the master plan was ruined.

Despite almost none of the Robert Downey Jr. sarcarstic patter I think this was the second best Iron Man movie.
  #11  
Old 05-04-2016, 12:12 AM
Arrogance Ex Machina Arrogance Ex Machina is offline
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Originally Posted by obfusciatrist View Post
Also didn't like that the movie required villain omniscience. If one bullet had missed/hit a target. If one CIA agent hadn't cheated a bit. If one of an infinite number of little things had gone differently the master plan was ruined.
I enjoyed the movie but this is certainly its greatest weakness. If near the start of the movie before things start to move you'd ask the villain "so, what's your plan for all of this?" I don't think there's any sensible answer he could give that wouldn't sound utterly ridiculous. The whole thing is running on pure narrativium.
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Old 05-04-2016, 09:22 AM
Zsofia Zsofia is offline
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Just think, he could have saved himself a ton of time and energy and just put that shit on YouTube.
  #13  
Old 05-06-2016, 08:57 AM
Skammer Skammer is offline
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Saw it last night, and it really is more an Avengers movie than a CA movie. Heck, it had more heroes than either of the previous Avengers movies did. I easily liked it better than Ultron, and it had some great moments and some flaws, IMO.

What I liked:
- I really liked Spider-man. The nervous kid, trying to impress and fit in with his heroes, and talking a lot to hide his awe/nervousness. He had some good lines but my favorite was "That shield is not obeying the laws of physics at all!" Corollary: I loved Aunt May, and not just because of my decades-long, heavy crush on Marisa Tomei.
- Black Panther was handled well, with enough mystery around him that makes me look forward to his movie coming out eventually. I also liked the development of Winter Soldier.
- I liked that there was a twist reveal at the end concerning the villain's plot and motives, even if his actual plot and motives didn't work as well in terms of actually making sense.
- I like in all these movies, but especially this one with so many characters, how they manage to make each hero a distinct individual with their own personality and flaws. Loved how they used Ant-Man and the aforementioned Spider-man, especially.
- Steve and Tony's relationship throughout the movie was sad, and it worked. Tony's position on the accords as a consequence of his guilt and regret was believable, and so was his rage at the end.
- Liked the shout-out to Peggy Carter.

Things I didn't like:
- I get the emotional punch, but Tony is smart enough to understand that someone can't be held responsible for crimes when they are literally being mind-controlled.
- Some of those heroes could have totally killed others, and were clearly holding back (e.g., Vision). I guess that makes sense given the relationships but it also lessens the impact of the fight. Speaking of Vision, why does he dress like a middle-aged dad?
- The villain's plot was ultimately nonsensical and wildly over-complicated, although I did enjoy the misdirect.
- As far as the question "Who died?" I was a bit disappointed in the answer. I think they missed an opportunity to do something greater.
  #14  
Old 05-06-2016, 10:23 AM
Nava Nava is offline
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Originally Posted by obfusciatrist View Post
Also didn't like that the movie required villain omniscience. If one bullet had missed/hit a target. If one CIA agent hadn't cheated a bit. If one of an infinite number of little things had gone differently the master plan was ruined.
Nah. I'm guessing that, like most people, you think of plans as being linear. I'm in point A, I want to get to point B, therefore I'll follow this path.

A good plan is one which will achieve its objectives through multiple contingencies+. We saw the one branching of the plan which actually developed, but there were other possibilities.

Also note that while it did not achieve a possible objective of "getting some Avengers to kill each other", it did achieve, and achieved them pretty early:
* pitching public opinion against the Avengers
* getting governments with enough push to do it to decide the Avengers needed to be controlled
* damaging the team as such a team (to the point of cleaving it).

The bad guy is imprisoned, but inasmuch as he achieved those objectives (and he did), he won.



+ My own plans have been known to include "since Joe Slowpoke will always take five more days than he is given, inform people that we need the stuff done one week earlier than when we actually do". And then when Joe Slowpoke is late and other people are jumping up and down I just wait until Joe Slowpoke had been thoroughly reamed and the teleconference is finished, and I say "oh, it was accounted for". The two extra days? In case something explodes wherever.

Last edited by Nava; 05-06-2016 at 10:28 AM.
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Old 05-06-2016, 10:25 AM
MrDibble MrDibble is offline
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Speaking of Vision, why does he dress like a middle-aged dad?
In his current comic, that's totally what he is.
  #16  
Old 05-06-2016, 04:26 PM
Quimby Quimby is offline
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I enjoyed it a lot but it felt like it was missing...something. I'm not sure what. It didn't have the forward momentum that Winter Solider had. That aside though, it was nice to just spend more time with these characters again. I like them all.

Manipulation by the bad guy aside, I have to say had I have to choose I side I would be with Tony Stark. There needs to be laws and oversight. But I get why Cap would not warm to the idea after watching SHIELD rot away and morph into Hydra right before his eyes.

I think the only hero who didn't show or get a mention was Nick Fury. This really was an all star game of a movie.
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Old 05-06-2016, 05:30 PM
Lasciel Lasciel is offline
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See, I'm totally on Cap's side, but I absolutely understood where Tony was coming from. I really felt like he considered himself guilty and needed someone else to have oversight - that's really understandable.

I'm just floored that they made a movie this coherent and good and balanced between the two sides (and didn't actually pick a side to "win" at all) out of the giant flustercluck that was the comic Civil War "event."

I do think the last battle was a bit contrived - I'm blaming it on Tony having a concussion to match that black eye and sore shoulder, and him not getting enough sleep over the past few days. I just think the Tony Stark from the movie-verse is better than that.

Poor Bucky.
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Old 05-06-2016, 06:11 PM
Randolph Randolph is offline
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I felt like Tony would be on the Freedom side by nature. They inserted that scene with Alfre Woodard to illustrate why he chose the side that he did, but his stance in this movie just didn't quite ring true for me. I realize that they needed to get Cap and Stark on opposing sides, but I didn't quite buy it.

Enjoyed the movie because of the universe they've built, but the plot exchanged logic for forced narration, so it wasn't quite a home run. A solid double, though.
  #19  
Old 05-06-2016, 06:28 PM
Sage Rat Sage Rat is offline
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I felt like Tony would be on the Freedom side by nature. They inserted that scene with Alfre Woodard to illustrate why he chose the side that he did, but his stance in this movie just didn't quite ring true for me. I realize that they needed to get Cap and Stark on opposing sides, but I didn't quite buy it.
This.

Some further pieces that seemed a bit questionable (beyond the ones already mentioned):

1. It seems a bit implausible that Stark would recruit Spidey that fast for that major of an undertaking.
2. They needed a throwaway line to explain the extreme changes of Spidey's eyes on his costume ("Tony asked for it to give the costume more character." or something).
3. Both Spider Man and Black Panther looked like CGI, computer game trailer characters.
4. Podunk African nation has the most advanced military technology in the world and seems to be friendly with Dr. Strange's mystical people? From what we saw at the start of the movie, Africa isn't a different continent than the one we have in our planet, so whaaa? Overall, Black Panther needed a better intro. He failed to have any real character in the movie, and the constant upping of his tech and abilities make it seem like they're just making up his character as they go along. It would have been better if he'd had a movie before this, to introduce the character on his own.
5. Captain America missed a pretty obvious line when saying that he'd go all out to save a friend, that that includes Stark as well. When fighting, we also should have seen more of that sort of conviction, rather than a full-force beat down on Iron Man.

Last edited by Sage Rat; 05-06-2016 at 06:30 PM.
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Old 05-06-2016, 08:52 PM
Quimby Quimby is offline
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FWIW Wakanda isn't podunk. It is a wealthy, advanced nation.

I also thought it was a little weird Tony apparently sussed out who Spider-Man was in his spare time. Enjoyed the scene though.

Last edited by Quimby; 05-06-2016 at 08:53 PM.
  #21  
Old 05-06-2016, 10:05 PM
muldoonthief muldoonthief is online now
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My kids and I really liked it. Definitely was Avengers 2.5 though. And I was quite happy with the superheroes vs. superheroes battle in the middle; especially Ant-Man's big surprise.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skammer View Post
- I get the emotional punch, but Tony is smart enough to understand that someone can't be held responsible for crimes when they are literally being mind-controlled.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lasciel View Post
I do think the last battle was a bit contrived - I'm blaming it on Tony having a concussion to match that black eye and sore shoulder, and him not getting enough sleep over the past few days. I just think the Tony Stark from the movie-verse is better than that.
Bucky killed his mom.
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Originally Posted by Sage Rat View Post
2. They needed a throwaway line to explain the extreme changes of Spidey's eyes on his costume ("Tony asked for it to give the costume more character." or something).
They had one. When Tony was examining his suit, Peter told him the goggles were there because his enhanced vision could be too much in a fight, so he had goggles to help him focus down. So Tony built that right into his new mask.
  #22  
Old 05-06-2016, 10:11 PM
The Other Waldo Pepper The Other Waldo Pepper is offline
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Podunk African nation has the most advanced military technology in the world and seems to be friendly with Dr. Strange's mystical people? From what we saw at the start of the movie, Africa isn't a different continent than the one we have in our planet, so whaaa?
Hadn't they already established, in AGE OF ULTRON, that Wakanda is the only place on the globe where vibranium can be mined? So we sorta already knew that, for the longest time, the locals could build otherwise impossible stuff?
  #23  
Old 05-06-2016, 10:43 PM
DigitalC DigitalC is online now
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To me it felt totally in character for Tony to sign the accords. The guy has to be having major guilt over the whole Ultron thing, plus he suffers from PTSD which everyone just ignores or makes fun off. My only problem with the movie was the ridiculous evil plot, which simply boiled down to making sure Tony saw the video at an opportune time, which happened entirely by luck and was in no way a result of anything the bad guy did.
  #24  
Old 05-06-2016, 11:54 PM
obfusciatrist obfusciatrist is offline
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Originally Posted by Randolph View Post
I felt like Tony would be on the Freedom side by nature. They inserted that scene with Alfre Woodard to illustrate why he chose the side that he did, but his stance in this movie just didn't quite ring true for me. I realize that they needed to get Cap and Stark on opposing sides, but I didn't quite buy it.
I don't have a problem with that. I think it shows a character arc that has spanned all of the Iron Man and Avengers movies. Essentially they've beaten him down, taught him that his gut reactions can't be trusted and taught him a sense of humility.

After all to a large extent what happened in Sokovia and the creation of Ultron was the result of him going off on his own say so and assuming he was the smartest guy int he room best positioned to decide how to defend humanity.

Seems reasonable that after getting smacked int he face each time with being wrong he might entertain some self doubt.
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Old 05-07-2016, 04:14 AM
MrDibble MrDibble is offline
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4. Podunk African nation has the most advanced military technology in the world and seems to be friendly with Dr. Strange's mystical people? From what we saw at the start of the movie, Africa isn't a different continent than the one we have in our planet, so whaaa?
Only source of Vibranium. Which powers their tech. Plus, it's not like the Lost World trope is a new thing.

Also, in the real world, mostly-isolated South Africa developed nukes, and has some military tech on par with the best in the world (all of y'all copied our MRAPs, for instance, and our Rooivalk is not a bad attack heli)
  #26  
Old 05-07-2016, 04:53 AM
Miller Miller is online now
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Originally Posted by Sage Rat View Post
2. They needed a throwaway line to explain the extreme changes of Spidey's eyes on his costume ("Tony asked for it to give the costume more character." or something).
They did. After Spider-Man makes his entrance, he says something like, "I could have stuck the landing better. I'm not used to the new suit. Oh, not that there's anything wrong with it, Mr. Stark!"

Although personally, I think "has crappy old suit -> meets Tony Stark -> has fancy new suit" is more than enough on its own to explain its origins.

Quote:
4. Podunk African nation has the most advanced military technology in the world and seems to be friendly with Dr. Strange's mystical people? From what we saw at the start of the movie, Africa isn't a different continent than the one we have in our planet, so whaaa? Overall, Black Panther needed a better intro. He failed to have any real character in the movie, and the constant upping of his tech and abilities make it seem like they're just making up his character as they go along. It would have been better if he'd had a movie before this, to introduce the character on his own.
Not sure who "Dr. Strange's mystical people," are. Wakanda clearly isn't a "podunk" African nation precisely because we see that they have super-science technology available. A hidden African city with secrets beyond the knowledge of European science is such a well-worn pulp trope, I scarcely think it needs set up in the film.

As for Black Panther, when he's introduced in his superhero persona, we're told he has a vibranium suit that appears to enhance his strength and endurance, plus he's got claws. Later on, we learn he also owns a jet. I'm not seeing this "constant upping of his tech and abilities."
  #27  
Old 05-07-2016, 05:06 AM
Miller Miller is online now
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- I get the emotional punch, but Tony is smart enough to understand that someone can't be held responsible for crimes when they are literally being mind-controlled.
I think Tony would get that under normal circumstances, but in this case, he's been pushed to the ragged edge for several days, had to fight his closest friends, and is then confronted with a video of the murder of his parents. He's not thinking as clearly as he normally would be right then.

Quote:
- Some of those heroes could have totally killed others, and were clearly holding back (e.g., Vision). I guess that makes sense given the relationships but it also lessens the impact of the fight.
Lessens the impact, sure, but also increases the poignancy. I mean, if they're fighting a bunch of Hydra goons, they're not going to hold back as much, but there's also not really a question whether they're going to win. Narratively, the smart thing about pitting heroes against each other is that one group of heroes has to lose, so there's some genuine tension in the outcome.

Quote:
Speaking of Vision, why does he dress like a middle-aged dad?
'Cause its funny.

Quote:
- The villain's plot was ultimately nonsensical and wildly over-complicated, although I did enjoy the misdirect.
I didn't have a problem with the villain's plot. It made sense; heroes "killed" his family, so he takes revenge on them by making them fight each other. As for over-complicated, I didn't really get that impression. His plot was basically to use the Winter Soldier's murder of Stark's parents as a wedge between Stark and Rodgers. A lot of the individual actions he undertakes are, I think, improvised. Like, I don't think his plan was, "Blow up the UN, which creates an unbreakable chain of events that can only possibly end with me, Rodgers, and Stark hanging out in a bunker in Siberia, which I'll shows Stark this particular video that will make him kille Rodgers!"

Rather, I think it was Zemo throwing everything he had related to Winter Soldier at the wall, and running with whatever stuck. The video at the Siberian base wasn't the final master stroke of an intricate Xanatos Gambit: it was the straw that broke the camels back. If Tony hadn't lost it then, Zemo almost certainly had some other stick to poke him with, until he made one or the other of them lose it.

More generally, Tony being on the registration side totally made sense to me, once I saw how we was acting with Ross after signing on. Tony desperately needs there to be someone in his life to tell him what to do, so he can ignore them. He's got the world's worst cast of oppositional defiance disorder, and there's nobody with any authority over him he can defy. On top of the guilt over Sokovia, that's a big part of why he jumps at the General's plan: because he absolutely cannot wait to be insubordinate to that stuck up martinet, but he can't be insubordinate if he's not a subordinate to begin with.
  #28  
Old 05-07-2016, 05:20 AM
AK84 AK84 is online now
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MrDibble.But but but........RSA had whites.

Just saw it. Writing this as I wait for credits scenes. A fantastic movie. On par with Winter Soldier as the best MCU film. I do agree with the Avengers2.5 assessments above. However, I think they should have simply called it "Marvel's Civil War" and ditched attaching it to a named Superhero. As my girlfriend pointed out, this is more Tony's rather than Steve's story.


So it's really Ironman 4.

Last edited by AK84; 05-07-2016 at 05:21 AM.
  #29  
Old 05-07-2016, 05:48 AM
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Saw it a week or so ago. Quite good. We always like these better than that Superman dreck. Thought Spider-Man was good.
  #30  
Old 05-07-2016, 06:28 AM
KarlGrenze KarlGrenze is offline
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For someone who has only seen the first Avengers, would this film be OK or too confusing with references?
  #31  
Old 05-07-2016, 07:06 AM
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Saw it last night -- it was terrific, definitely one of the best MCU movies, IMO. Great balance of action and drama -- it really was tough watching them go all out against each other at the end.
  #32  
Old 05-07-2016, 07:12 AM
Sage Rat Sage Rat is offline
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Originally Posted by muldoonthief View Post
They had one. When Tony was examining his suit, Peter told him the goggles were there because his enhanced vision could be too much in a fight, so he had goggles to help him focus down. So Tony built that right into his new mask.
Do your goggles slide the top and bottom to match your expression, in an exaggerated fashion?
  #33  
Old 05-07-2016, 07:15 AM
Sage Rat Sage Rat is offline
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Originally Posted by The Other Waldo Pepper View Post
Hadn't they already established, in AGE OF ULTRON, that Wakanda is the only place on the globe where vibranium can be mined? So we sorta already knew that, for the longest time, the locals could build otherwise impossible stuff?
They introduced a good two dozen characters and a million things happened in Age of Ultron. If they're expecting me to remember anything that actually happened in that movie, the writers are being rather optimistic.

And I don't see what having a bunch of vibranium mines means. If I told you that Tanzania is the source of 99% of the world's titanium, would you think that they must clearly have advanced technology in their nation?
  #34  
Old 05-07-2016, 07:30 AM
The Other Waldo Pepper The Other Waldo Pepper is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sage Rat View Post
They introduced a good two dozen characters and a million things happened in Age of Ultron. If they're expecting me to remember anything that actually happened in that movie, the writers are being rather optimistic.

And I don't see what having a bunch of vibranium mines means. If I told you that Tanzania is the source of 99% of the world's titanium, would you think that they must clearly have advanced technology in their nation?
Do you recall that Cap's shield is made of vibranium, which gives it properties unlike any other shield on the planet? Like, it doesn't just have its own density, but it has unique 'absorption' properties and is "the most versatile metal in the world" and was the key to creating the Vision's otherwise-impossible body, which is why Ultron paid billions of dollars to obtain the stuff instead of using something else in his plans?
  #35  
Old 05-07-2016, 08:11 AM
Zsofia Zsofia is offline
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Anybody excusing the villain's plot needs to consider what happens if he gets caught with the bomb (as he clearly almost did, there was a dog there).
  #36  
Old 05-07-2016, 08:14 AM
AK84 AK84 is online now
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The guy was a Commando , I suspect he knows enough how to get by such security measures.

Last edited by AK84; 05-07-2016 at 08:14 AM.
  #37  
Old 05-07-2016, 09:25 AM
satoridt satoridt is offline
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For someone who has only seen the first Avengers, would this film be OK or too confusing with references?
It would be very confusing. This movie is similar to Avengers in that it is the exciting conclusion to character arcs that happen in the stand alone movies. At this point it is probably best to think of the Marvel movies as a super high budget TV show. You don't want to just tune in for the finale.

Related to that, if you are interested, why not just watch all the other movies? They are at worst entertaining, at at best are genuinely great movies. Spend a month, watch a couple movies a week and immerse yourself in the world a little bit. It's a lot of fun.
  #38  
Old 05-07-2016, 09:40 AM
KarlGrenze KarlGrenze is offline
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Because I don't really care for Captain America or Ironman- centered movies. I may be OK with watching the second Avengers. And I ask because SO wants to see it and Im usually his movie buddy.
  #39  
Old 05-07-2016, 09:58 AM
DigitalC DigitalC is online now
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Originally Posted by KarlGrenze View Post
Because I don't really care for Captain America or Ironman- centered movies. I may be OK with watching the second Avengers. And I ask because SO wants to see it and Im usually his movie buddy.
This is a Captain America movie based around him fighting Iron Man, why would you even bother?
  #40  
Old 05-07-2016, 10:03 AM
KarlGrenze KarlGrenze is offline
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I was not, but the way some are describing, as more ensemble film a la Avengers, makes me interested in checking it. Hence the original question.
  #41  
Old 05-07-2016, 10:28 AM
Quimby Quimby is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KarlGrenze View Post
For someone who has only seen the first Avengers, would this film be OK or too confusing with references?
To be honest at a minimum you may want to watch at least Captain America Winter Soldier (which has the side benefit of being a great movie anyway ). The story really works as a sequel to that story. But the movie alone gives you all the info you need to watch it.


Regarding Wakanda: I kind of feel like I have to mention that even in the real Africa in our world there are plenty of cities that are just as advanced and would be indistinguishable from a city in Europe or North America. Africa isn't just huts and lions.

Last edited by Quimby; 05-07-2016 at 10:29 AM.
  #42  
Old 05-07-2016, 10:32 AM
muldoonthief muldoonthief is online now
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Originally Posted by Sage Rat View Post
Do your goggles slide the top and bottom to match your expression, in an exaggerated fashion?
No, but if I had access to Tony Stark's tech, I'd build goggles that dilate/contract in sync with my eye muscles, if that happened to help me in a fight. The fact that they also match my expression is just icing on the cake.

Sure, it's not a perfect explanation, but for comics, it's good enough.

Last edited by muldoonthief; 05-07-2016 at 10:33 AM.
  #43  
Old 05-07-2016, 01:42 PM
Lobohan Lobohan is offline
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Originally Posted by Zsofia View Post
Anybody excusing the villain's plot needs to consider what happens if he gets caught with the bomb (as he clearly almost did, there was a dog there).
They discovered the bomb and he detonated it. He wasn't depending on killing anyone specific, he was creating an incident. If he got caught, the rest of the movie doesn't happen. But that goes for any plan.

It seems you're thinking that he expected everything to happen the way it did, I don't think so. He wanted to expose Stark to that message at an appropriate time to cause friction.

The sequence of events, as far as I can tell:

SPOILER:

1. He discovers from the Hydra data leak, that Hydra killed Stark's parents, and that a tape of the killing exists. And that Bucky, the good friend of Cap America did it.

2. He tries to get the tape by interrogating the Hydra agent in charge. When there, he gets the Bucky codebook. The guy doesn't tell him where the tape is located.

3. Realizing that he needs to get the location of the tape from Bucky, he flushes him out with the bomb plot. He makes the Avengers look bad by bombing the accords, and makes Bucky the most wanted person on Earth.

4. He kills the UN interrogator and swaps with him, bringing the Bucky codebook, so he can meet Bucky, activate him, and get the location of the hydra base with the tape.

He knows that Cap will try to save Bucky, and cause some friction.

5. He gets the tape. Confrontation.
  #44  
Old 05-07-2016, 02:29 PM
Richard John Marcej Richard John Marcej is offline
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I don't understand the comments here questioning the existence of high-tech science in Wakanda. It's been established in the comics since Fantastic Four #52 (nearly 50 years ago) that Wakanda is a hidden country with a highly advanced scientific community, thanks in part to having the only source of the rare vibration-absorbing mineral Vibranium.

I really enjoyed Captain America: Civil War but just have a few quibbles.

• I'm surprised that there was NO mention that Wanda's brother died in Sokovia. You'd think that when she was forced to watch the film of Sokovia again on TV that she would have expressed some sort of sadness over Pietro's death.

• Kind of disappointed that they slightly changed the Black Panther's origin. Having his father killed by Ulysses Klaw in the comics kind of gave T'Challa an arch villain, though I guess going forward that slot can be filled with Zemo.

• Even though I knew what Zemo was looking for when he went to Siberia I was hoping that he could have accidentally uncovered a frozen Red Skull to be a Cap foe in an upcoming film. I miss the fact that we don't have that great Cap vs Skull set up in the films.

A couple things I really liked in the film:

LOVED all the dialogue between the characters during their battle and other scenes. I laughed much, much, MUCH MORE during five minutes in this film than I did in the entirety of Deadpool, which bored the hell out of me.

• Surprised, though happily, with the appearance of Giant Man/Goliath and the first signs of a romantic relationship between the Vision & Scarlet Witch (though, have they ever called her that in the films?).

Another winning film by Marvel Studios!!!

Last edited by Richard John Marcej; 05-07-2016 at 02:29 PM.
  #45  
Old 05-07-2016, 02:59 PM
muldoonthief muldoonthief is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard John Marcej View Post
I'm surprised that there was NO mention that Wanda's brother died in Sokovia. You'd think that when she was forced to watch the film of Sokovia again on TV that she would have expressed some sort of sadness over Pietro's death.
Hawkeye did say he owed her a debt.
  #46  
Old 05-07-2016, 03:57 PM
Sage Rat Sage Rat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Other Waldo Pepper View Post
Do you recall that Cap's shield is made of vibranium, which gives it properties unlike any other shield on the planet? Like, it doesn't just have its own density, but it has unique 'absorption' properties and is "the most versatile metal in the world" and was the key to creating the Vision's otherwise-impossible body, which is why Ultron paid billions of dollars to obtain the stuff instead of using something else in his plans?
I'm sure that I could get a chemist to go through the periodic table of elements and explain how each one is amaaaaazing in what it can do. Being able to say that vibranium is really useful (unlike all those other elements) still doesn't mean that the place where it is mined is making much money nor doing anything useful with that money if they are making it. The people of Dubai, for example, seem to be content with building underwater hotels and racing Ferraris in the desert.

I'm happy that the Wakandans are doing better than the humans in our world. My point was simply that there was no introduction to that fact, so each time the Black Panther got ramped up, it was like
  #47  
Old 05-07-2016, 03:59 PM
Sage Rat Sage Rat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard John Marcej View Post
I don't understand the comments here questioning the existence of high-tech science in Wakanda. It's been established in the comics since Fantastic Four #52 (nearly 50 years ago) that Wakanda is a hidden country with a highly advanced scientific community, thanks in part to having the only source of the rare vibration-absorbing mineral Vibranium.
And what percentile of watchers of the movie do you think read comics?
  #48  
Old 05-07-2016, 04:02 PM
silenus silenus is offline
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Or are sitting next to one? Pretty much all of them. They can easily turn to their neighbor and ask "Is this a comics thing?" Their neighbor will nob and the movie will go on, everyone satisfied.
  #49  
Old 05-07-2016, 04:08 PM
glee glee is offline
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May I ask who shot the film of Bucky killing Tony Stark's parents?

(A motor bike rider shoots out the tyres of a car on a deserted road...where was the cameraman?)
  #50  
Old 05-07-2016, 04:21 PM
silenus silenus is offline
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Hydra developed GoPro decades ago.
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