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  #101  
Old 06-08-2016, 11:18 AM
Hamlet Hamlet is offline
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Originally Posted by Steve MB View Post
Or he could just be honest about it: "He is truly sorry that he got caught."
And convicted. Expressing remorse AFTER he puts the victim through a jury trial, and after he gets on the stand and lies to his teeth is bullshit.

Last edited by Hamlet; 06-08-2016 at 11:18 AM.
  #102  
Old 06-08-2016, 12:15 PM
Snowboarder Bo Snowboarder Bo is online now
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Originally Posted by enipla View Post
The kid clearly knew he was in the wrong. The two swedes had to chase him down and tackle him.
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Originally Posted by Kobal2 View Post
So what you're saying is, he got stepped on by two Swede dudes ?
Surely, you are going to Hell.





  #103  
Old 06-08-2016, 01:13 PM
Damuri Ajashi Damuri Ajashi is offline
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So "affulenza" is when you have lived such an economically priveleged background that you can't really be held responsible for killing 4 people...

so what do you call it when a white dude can't be held responsible for raping a girl mostly because he is a white dude going to Stanford?
  #104  
Old 06-08-2016, 01:40 PM
Randolph Randolph is offline
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America.
  #105  
Old 06-08-2016, 01:41 PM
elbows elbows is offline
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Affluence, strain B.

Also known as "Daddy can afford a whole law firm!"
  #106  
Old 06-08-2016, 01:41 PM
Vinyl Turnip Vinyl Turnip is online now
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Originally Posted by Damuri Ajashi View Post
So "affulenza" is when you have lived such an economically priveleged background that you can't really be held responsible for killing 4 people...

so what do you call it when a white dude can't be held responsible for raping a girl mostly because he is a white dude going to Stanford?
Thursday.
  #107  
Old 06-08-2016, 03:08 PM
Sitnam Sitnam is offline
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Recalling this judge will lead to harsher sentences for Black and Latino criminals

Huh. I'm conflicted, I think he does have a point, but I'm not sure people should avoid the consequences of poor actions even for the greater good.

During the financial crisis I wanted the heads of those responsible to roll regardless of the consequences to the economy down the road.
  #108  
Old 06-08-2016, 03:23 PM
Typo Negative Typo Negative is offline
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But, oddly enough, will have no impact on sentences for white kids with rich parents.
__________________
When trouble arises and things look bad, there is always one
individual who perceives a solution and is willing to take command.
Very often, that individual is crazy.
-- Dave Berry, "25 Things I Have Learned in 50 Years"
  #109  
Old 06-08-2016, 03:30 PM
Kobal2 Kobal2 is offline
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I don't. Blacks and Latinos already routinely get the book thrown at them, especially when they're convicted of crimes against white folks and even more so when they're convicted of crimes against white women. Look up the stats.

Beyond that, let justice prevail though the Heavens fall.
  #110  
Old 06-08-2016, 03:40 PM
Valgard Valgard is offline
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It gets better, the assailant is now blaming "party culture" and "peer pressure".

http://www.sfgate.com/entertainment/...re-7970881.php

Is this guy plus his family and friends simply incapable of making a statement that doesn't spray blame all around the place, everywhere except where it belongs? If he wants to be seen as trying to properly deal with what he did, it's not that hard to write an honest apology:

1. Admit what you did. "I committed an awful and inexcusable sexual assault on the victim".
2. Take responsibility. "I have nobody to blame but myself for my actions. Being drunk is not an excuse for what I did."
3. Say you're sorry. "I apologize without reservation for what I have done."

And then try and tell people what you'll do that will in some way atone for your actions and ensure that you never do something like that again. Join AA. Do community service talking to kids about making good decisions and respecting people. Work at a rape crisis center. Whatever.

Someone needs to tell "his side" that they are not making themselves look any better.
  #111  
Old 06-08-2016, 04:36 PM
TroutMan TroutMan is online now
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Originally Posted by Valgard View Post
It gets better, the assailant is now blaming "party culture" and "peer pressure".

http://www.sfgate.com/entertainment/...re-7970881.php
"Iíve lost two jobs solely based on the reporting of my case."

Uh, I don't think it was solely based on the reporting. It might also be somewhat related to you raping a woman.

Unbelievable.
  #112  
Old 06-08-2016, 04:50 PM
raventhief raventhief is online now
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Originally Posted by TroutMan View Post
"Iíve lost two jobs solely based on the reporting of my case."

Uh, I don't think it was solely based on the reporting. It might also be somewhat related to you raping a woman.

Unbelievable.
Nope it's totally the fault of the media! It's not possible that he lousy two jobs because of his "action"- it's those damn journalists!
  #113  
Old 06-08-2016, 05:09 PM
dasmoocher dasmoocher is offline
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"Iíve lost two jobs solely based on the reporting of my case."

Uh, I don't think it was solely based on the reporting. It might also be somewhat related to you raping a woman.

Unbelievable.
Also: "I wish I never was good at swimming or had the opportunity to attend Stanford, so maybe the newspapers wouldnít want to write stories about me.Ē

Maybe if you didn't rape someone they wouldn't be writing about you.
  #114  
Old 06-08-2016, 05:12 PM
neofishboy neofishboy is online now
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Oh my God. He's lost his urge to party.

Jesus, what kind of life is that ...
  #115  
Old 06-08-2016, 05:16 PM
Snowboarder Bo Snowboarder Bo is online now
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I like this one:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brock Turner, rapist
I wish I never was good at swimming or had the opportunity to attend Stanford, so maybe the newspapers wouldn’t want to write stories about me.

Last edited by Snowboarder Bo; 06-08-2016 at 05:17 PM. Reason: ETA: <shakes fist at dasmoocher>
  #116  
Old 06-08-2016, 05:52 PM
cmkeller cmkeller is offline
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Typical liberal apologists, throwing women under the bus. "We have to defend Bill Clinton's sexual harassment, otherwise, the conservatives will have scored a political point!" Now it's "We have to allow this judge to sentence rapists lightly, or else minorities will get heavy sentences!"

Keep voting for these guys, feminists. Maybe your interests (other than the sacred right to abortion) will come first in line some day. Any year, now.
  #117  
Old 06-08-2016, 05:52 PM
psychobunny psychobunny is offline
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For the sake of completeness, his whole statement is here (scroll down). He was just a poor innocent midwesterner who needed to gain approval of the other guys on the swim team and everybody was drinking and hooking up and he was too young and naive to know better and besides she consented.

Last edited by psychobunny; 06-08-2016 at 05:53 PM.
  #118  
Old 06-08-2016, 05:55 PM
raventhief raventhief is online now
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A family friend had apparently set up a fundraising site to help this poor family. It's been taken down now, the web never forgets.

http://heavy.com/news/2016/06/brock-...tes-of-action/
  #119  
Old 06-08-2016, 06:21 PM
Giraffes Can't Dance Giraffes Can't Dance is offline
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Per normal liberal agenda, the OP's title to this thread is meant to race bait. As if the race of the jerk involved in this case holds any relevance. When liberals aren't expressing hatred for America, they're expressing hatred for white people.

The young man involved is a piece of garbage. His father, expressing the desperation of a parent attempting to save their child, said something incredibly ignorant.
  #120  
Old 06-08-2016, 06:37 PM
silenus silenus is online now
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Originally Posted by Giraffes Can't Dance View Post
When liberals aren't expressing hatred for America, they're expressing hatred for white people.
The two aren't mutually exclusive, you know. I can hate what the American Dream has become while at the same time holding you beneath contempt.
  #121  
Old 06-08-2016, 06:39 PM
Aspidistra Aspidistra is offline
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Much as Brock Turner deserves every ounce of scorn that's coming his way, I can't really get behind the internet shaming of the ancilliary characters who came out in support of him - especially the ones who have been outed as supporting him based on statements they made before he was convicted.

Leslie Rassmussen, for instance, is clearly dumb as a stone, but mostly because she obviously still believes, deep in her heart of hearts, that the events of the evening include the victim voluntarily getting it on with Brock, and consenting while still conscious. Not because she thinks that collaring a random near-unconscious woman, shoving her behind a dumpster, beating her and sticking pine needles inside of her is an ok thing to do. I wouldn't want to make a friend of anyone so bloody stupid, but I'd be willing to go see a band she was in - I'm sure I've seen bands plenty of times before that had band members just as idiotic as she is.
  #122  
Old 06-08-2016, 06:50 PM
Sampiro Sampiro is offline
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Affluenza.
They recently found a cure for affluenza while looking through Bolshevik medical journals. It's "bayonets".
  #123  
Old 06-08-2016, 06:50 PM
Valgard Valgard is offline
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Originally Posted by Aspidistra View Post
Much as Brock Turner deserves every ounce of scorn that's coming his way, I can't really get behind the internet shaming of the ancilliary characters who came out in support of him - especially the ones who have been outed as supporting him based on statements they made before he was convicted.

Leslie Rassmussen, for instance, is clearly dumb as a stone, but mostly because she obviously still believes, deep in her heart of hearts, that the events of the evening include the victim voluntarily getting it on with Brock, and consenting while still conscious. Not because she thinks that collaring a random near-unconscious woman, shoving her behind a dumpster, beating her and sticking pine needles inside of her is an ok thing to do. I wouldn't want to make a friend of anyone so bloody stupid, but I'd be willing to go see a band she was in - I'm sure I've seen bands plenty of times before that had band members just as idiotic as she is.
I may be wrong but I think the statements by the dad and the friend were sent to the judge after he was convicted, they were pleas for leniency in the actual sentencing.
  #124  
Old 06-08-2016, 06:57 PM
Peremensoe Peremensoe is offline
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Originally Posted by Aspidistra View Post
Much as Brock Turner deserves every ounce of scorn that's coming his way, I can't really get behind the internet shaming of the ancilliary characters who came out in support of him - especially the ones who have been outed as supporting him based on statements they made before he was convicted.

Leslie Rassmussen, for instance...
Rasmussen's generalized rape-culture thoughts deserve scorn in their own right, independent of the outcome of a particular case.
  #125  
Old 06-08-2016, 07:02 PM
TroutMan TroutMan is online now
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I may be wrong but I think the statements by the dad and the friend were sent to the judge after he was convicted, they were pleas for leniency in the actual sentencing.
You are correct.

I can certainly get behind the shaming of the ideas expressed in the letters of support. It's good for people to think about why the views expressed in the letters are reprehensible. But the friend in particular is getting more attention focused on her than she probably deserves.

And as much as I think the sentence was horribly inadequate for the severity of the crime, I can't get behind the recall effort of the judge. Judges should not be subject to following public opinion. Issues like this sentence should be addressed by the judicial ethics commission, not recall petitions and mob mentality. This says it better than I can.
  #126  
Old 06-08-2016, 08:29 PM
CairoCarol CairoCarol is offline
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Does anyone have a read on where Stanford University has been in all of this? I have a vague sense that they expelled Brock and barred him from campus, but at what point (assuming that's true) did they do so? Obviously once he was convicted it was appropriate to do that, but it was probably not appropriate at the first hint of an accusation. I'd be curious to know when they took steps, and with what information in hand.

I marvel that this asshole was accepted to Stanford in the first place. What with their current level of popularity, they are deluged with applications and have made the application process rather tiresome - I forget the details now but there are something like 3 or 4 extra essays one has to write, including the infamous "roommate letter" (and boy would I love to see what Brock wrote for that).

You would think that, with all that one has to share in order to apply, there would have been at least some indication in Brock's application that he is an entitled brat. But if you are a good enough swimmer, maybe that doesn't matter?
  #127  
Old 06-08-2016, 08:32 PM
Gatopescado Gatopescado is offline
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That makes one of you.
And you obviously didn't get it.
  #128  
Old 06-08-2016, 08:54 PM
Algher Algher is offline
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Originally Posted by CairoCarol View Post
Does anyone have a read on where Stanford University has been in all of this? I have a vague sense that they expelled Brock and barred him from campus, but at what point (assuming that's true) did they do so? Obviously once he was convicted it was appropriate to do that, but it was probably not appropriate at the first hint of an accusation. I'd be curious to know when they took steps, and with what information in hand.

I marvel that this asshole was accepted to Stanford in the first place. What with their current level of popularity, they are deluged with applications and have made the application process rather tiresome - I forget the details now but there are something like 3 or 4 extra essays one has to write, including the infamous "roommate letter" (and boy would I love to see what Brock wrote for that).

You would think that, with all that one has to share in order to apply, there would have been at least some indication in Brock's application that he is an entitled brat. But if you are a good enough swimmer, maybe that doesn't matter?
Stanford dumped him very quickly:

Quote:
A former Stanford freshman facing five felony sexual assault charges has voluntarily withdrawn his registration from the university and he is not eligible to re-enroll.

Brock Turner, 19, is prohibited from returning to Stanford after an investigation into a Jan. 18 incident that was reported to campus police by concerned students.
https://news.stanford.edu/2015/01/28...cement-012815/

Further:
https://news.stanford.edu/2016/06/06...k-turner-case/
Quote:
In less than two weeks after the incident, Stanford had conducted an investigation and banned Turner from setting foot on campus Ė as a student or otherwise. This is the harshest sanction that a university can impose on a student.
As for identifying an entitled brat during the admissions process - good luck with that. I have done admissions work (graduate level) and even with the full file, essays, letters and an interview I would still be surprised by the behavior of some candidates after they became students.
  #129  
Old 06-09-2016, 12:55 AM
CairoCarol CairoCarol is offline
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As for identifying an entitled brat during the admissions process - good luck with that. I have done admissions work (graduate level) and even with the full file, essays, letters and an interview I would still be surprised by the behavior of some candidates after they became students.
Thanks Algher, very comprehensive answer.

I know you are right about the difficulty of identifying an entitled brat just from admissions files. No one is going to write an essay saying, "I'm a callous jerk, reject me now." It's just that Stanford (understandably) has a particularly thorough process. I know it's not the case, but it's tempting to think that with the benefit of 20-20 hindsight, if we could read all of his essays we would find something to seize upon as evidence of his true nature.
  #130  
Old 06-09-2016, 01:06 AM
Budget Player Cadet Budget Player Cadet is online now
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Originally Posted by Giraffes Can't Dance View Post
Per normal liberal agenda, the OP's title to this thread is meant to race bait. As if the race of the jerk involved in this case holds any relevance.
https://broadly.vice.com/en_us/artic...ng-racial-bias

Because there is no reasonable doubt that, had this person been a black man, had he not been privileged first by his wealth, then by his skin color (which is almost certainly a factor in his wealth), that the headline would not be "Stanford Swimmer gets 6 months". Rather, it probably would have been something like "Thug Rapist gets 14 years".

Last edited by Budget Player Cadet; 06-09-2016 at 01:06 AM.
  #131  
Old 06-09-2016, 01:20 AM
Damuri Ajashi Damuri Ajashi is offline
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Originally Posted by Giraffes Can't Dance View Post
Per normal liberal agenda, the OP's title to this thread is meant to race bait. As if the race of the jerk involved in this case holds any relevance. When liberals aren't expressing hatred for America, they're expressing hatred for white people.

The young man involved is a piece of garbage. His father, expressing the desperation of a parent attempting to save their child, said something incredibly ignorant.
I think the color and privilege of the rapist is being mentioned because if he was black or hispanic, he wouldn't have gotten 6 months (3 months with good behaviour). The defendant here got a break because of his diminished capacity (he was drunk). A drunk black dude raping a woman behind a dumpster is not likely to get the same sort of consideration for his diminished capacity.
  #132  
Old 06-09-2016, 01:22 AM
Damuri Ajashi Damuri Ajashi is offline
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Originally Posted by Aspidistra View Post
collaring a random near-unconscious woman, shoving her behind a dumpster, beating her and sticking pine needles inside of her is an ok thing to do.
Wait, did this happen?
  #133  
Old 06-09-2016, 01:27 AM
dasmoocher dasmoocher is offline
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Originally Posted by CairoCarol View Post
Thanks Algher, very comprehensive answer.

I know you are right about the difficulty of identifying an entitled brat just from admissions files. No one is going to write an essay saying, "I'm a callous jerk, reject me now." It's just that Stanford (understandably) has a particularly thorough process. I know it's not the case, but it's tempting to think that with the benefit of 20-20 hindsight, if we could read all of his essays we would find something to seize upon as evidence of his true nature.
To write an essay

Do all college admissions require essays nowadays?

I had jock preferences back in the day in the 80's--including Ivy and service academy sports interests, as in personal letters from head coaches. But, I was also a National Merit Semi-Finalist and I had the SAT scores. I don't remember ever being asked to write an essay for my application. Although, I only applied to a school I was guaranteed to get into. Basically, because they were the number one ranked school in my sport of preference.

I'm curious who looked at this swimmer closely enough for him to get into Stanford--a very respectable school.
  #134  
Old 06-09-2016, 02:19 AM
Merneith Merneith is offline
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Wait, did this happen?
It's true that she was found with bruises and pine needles inside her.
  #135  
Old 06-09-2016, 03:22 AM
kambuckta kambuckta is offline
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A family friend had apparently set up a fundraising site to help this poor family. It's been taken down now, the web never forgets.

http://heavy.com/news/2016/06/brock-...tes-of-action/
Fark, it's just insane!

From the fundraising site:
Quote:
....I am reaching out to you on behalf of Dan Turner and Carleen Bradfield Turner. They are dealing with a monumental life-changing and tragic situation with Brock and their expenses continue to mount.
A monunmental life-changing and tragic situation? FOR THE PERP??

Forgive me whilst I go laugh my arse off.....WTF indeed.
  #136  
Old 06-09-2016, 03:26 AM
Budget Player Cadet Budget Player Cadet is online now
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Fark, it's just insane!

From the fundraising site:

A monunmental life-changing and tragic situation? FOR THE PERP??

Forgive me whilst I go laugh my arse off.....WTF indeed.
To be fair, that was before the verdict.
  #137  
Old 06-09-2016, 03:37 AM
SlackerInc SlackerInc is offline
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The anonymous woman who wrote the letter really can write. I hope she gets a gig out of this somehow! I'm so curious to know if she already makes her living writing.

One thing that nags at me, though, doesn't have to do with this exact case so much (since his running away tends to indicate that he knew he was doing something wrong--and the witnesses said she was totally limp). But part of her statement said that he thought "she liked it" because she was allegedly rubbing his back or whatever. So what happens in a case where the woman is not unconscious, but blacks out and doesn't remember consenting to sex?

In case there is anyone who was less of a drunkard than I was in my college years and doesn't understand the distinction: people can (at least I sure could--not sure if this happens to everyone) get drunk to a degree that causes amnesia the next day about a portion of the night, but does not cause unconsciousness. A few times I heard multiple reliable accounts of things I did and said over a good couple hours between when I could last remember and when I actually passed out. (In one humorous case, I apparently kept saying to a girl in my friend group, "I totally respect your intelligence, Tracy"; and after the umpteenth time, our friend Dave said "yes, I think you've made that abundantly clear".

So if a young woman wakes up at a frathouse, say, in a complete stranger's bed, and can tell she's had sex--but the last thing she can remember is sitting on the couch downstairs drinking Long Island teas--how does she know if she passed out there and then was dragged upstairs to be raped, or if she just doesn't remember making out with the guy and then voluntarily going up to his room to have sex with him?

ETA: If the answer is to declare that drunk people are not competent to consent to sex, I can see the logic...however, that throws a grenade into the social order for a huge swath of the population, especially those in their late teens and early twenties.

Last edited by SlackerInc; 06-09-2016 at 03:41 AM.
  #138  
Old 06-09-2016, 04:47 AM
CairoCarol CairoCarol is offline
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Originally Posted by dasmoocher View Post
To write an essay

Do all college admissions require essays nowadays?

I had jock preferences back in the day in the 80's--including Ivy and service academy sports interests, as in personal letters from head coaches. But, I was also a National Merit Semi-Finalist and I had the SAT scores. I don't remember ever being asked to write an essay for my application. Although, I only applied to a school I was guaranteed to get into. Basically, because they were the number one ranked school in my sport of preference.

I'm curious who looked at this swimmer closely enough for him to get into Stanford--a very respectable school.
For applicants to the Class of 2020, Stanford required the Common App[lication] plus a host of additional essays. The Common App gave a choice of 5 questions, with a minimum response of 250 words. I won't repeat all five, but the first one was: Some students have a background, identity, interest, or talent that is so meaningful they believe their application would be incomplete without it. If this sounds like you, then please share your story.

The additional questions required by Stanford were:
  • Name your favorite books, authors, films, and/or artists. (50 word limit)
  • What newspapers, magazines, and/or websites do you enjoy? (50 word limit)
  • What is the most significant challenge that society faces today? (50 word limit)
  • How did you spend your last two summers? (50 word limit)
  • What were your favorite events (e.g., performances, exhibits, competitions, conferences, etc.) in recent years? (50 word limit)
  • What historical moment or event do you wish you could have witnessed? (50 word limit)
  • What five words best describe you?
  • Stanford students possess an intellectual vitality. Reflect on an idea or experience that has been important to your intellectual development. (250 word limit)
  • Virtually all of Stanford's undergraduates live on campus. Write a note to your future roommate that reveals something about you or that will help your roommate -- and us -- know you better. (250 word limit)
  • What matters to you, and why? (100 to 250 words)

Most schools these days require either the Common App, or if they don't participate they require something roughtly similar. Selective and highly selective schools usually have a couple of additional questions beyond the Common App.

Stanford is a special case - at the moment they have the lowest acceptance rate in the country (around 4 percent) and it is something of a vicious cycle - the lower the acceptance rate, the greater the cachet. The greater the cachet, the more kids who want to attend and the higher the number of applicants. The higher the number of applicants, the lower the acceptance rate. And so on.

While Stanford benefits from the prestige associated with having the lowest acceptance rate in the country, they also recognize that things are somewhat out of control, or so I assume. I believe the extra hoops you have to jump through to apply are in recognition of that. They welcome the fact that they are seen as an incredibly desirable place to attend college, but at the same time they weed out a lot of inappropriate applicants by making it somewhat hard to apply.

Of course, if an applicant is a stellar athlete with a strong academic record, I have no idea if schools like Stanford spend time scrutinizing the essay questions or not. One gets the sense that Brock could have written pretty much anything in his essays and he still would have gotten in.
  #139  
Old 06-09-2016, 05:32 AM
Kobal2 Kobal2 is offline
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They recently found a cure for affluenza while looking through Bolshevik medical journals. It's "bayonets".
Well call me old fashioned but I stand by the traditional folk remedy of my people - the guillotine.
  #140  
Old 06-09-2016, 05:38 AM
MsRobyn MsRobyn is offline
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The anonymous woman who wrote the letter really can write. I hope she gets a gig out of this somehow! I'm so curious to know if she already makes her living writing.

One thing that nags at me, though, doesn't have to do with this exact case so much (since his running away tends to indicate that he knew he was doing something wrong--and the witnesses said she was totally limp). But part of her statement said that he thought "she liked it" because she was allegedly rubbing his back or whatever. So what happens in a case where the woman is not unconscious, but blacks out and doesn't remember consenting to sex?

In case there is anyone who was less of a drunkard than I was in my college years and doesn't understand the distinction: people can (at least I sure could--not sure if this happens to everyone) get drunk to a degree that causes amnesia the next day about a portion of the night, but does not cause unconsciousness. A few times I heard multiple reliable accounts of things I did and said over a good couple hours between when I could last remember and when I actually passed out. (In one humorous case, I apparently kept saying to a girl in my friend group, "I totally respect your intelligence, Tracy"; and after the umpteenth time, our friend Dave said "yes, I think you've made that abundantly clear".

So if a young woman wakes up at a frathouse, say, in a complete stranger's bed, and can tell she's had sex--but the last thing she can remember is sitting on the couch downstairs drinking Long Island teas--how does she know if she passed out there and then was dragged upstairs to be raped, or if she just doesn't remember making out with the guy and then voluntarily going up to his room to have sex with him?

ETA: If the answer is to declare that drunk people are not competent to consent to sex, I can see the logic...however, that throws a grenade into the social order for a huge swath of the population, especially those in their late teens and early twenties.
One more time. It. Does. Not. Matter. if a person gave consent while drunk. A drunk person can't give consent. It's entirely possible to do things while intoxicated that seem voluntary, but alcohol and/or drugs impede judgment such that anything can seem like a good idea, whether it's signing a contract, driving a car, or having sex. The law recognizes this and considers most actions committed under the influence to be invalid under civil law (such as invalidating a contract signed while drunk) or punishable under criminal law (such as being arrested for DUI). Therefore, it doesn't matter if someone appears to voluntarily having sexual relations and they're drunk, they're not giving consent. The alcohol and/or drugs are doing the consenting for them. See how that works?

That said, if you're drinking that much, it may be a good idea to knock it off before you do something stupid that ruins your life, such as driving drunk or raping someone.
  #141  
Old 06-09-2016, 05:43 AM
Budget Player Cadet Budget Player Cadet is online now
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Originally Posted by MsRobyn View Post
One more time. It. Does. Not. Matter. if a person gave consent while drunk. A drunk person can't give consent.
Err... There are clearly some shades of grey here. I'm pretty clearly able to give consent after a few beers. A lot of people get drunk and then want to have sex. Obviously, there's a line between "I'm a little tipsy, stick it in my pooper" (my experience at a club not that long ago) and blackout drunk, but given how long it takes to process alcohol, I don't think it's impossible for that line to be crossed at some point between giving consent the act ending. This, obviously, sucks.

Last edited by Budget Player Cadet; 06-09-2016 at 05:44 AM.
  #142  
Old 06-09-2016, 05:56 AM
dasmoocher dasmoocher is offline
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This is just a minor nit-pick with regards to the judge in this case, but I'm confused as how he's referred to as the captain of the Stanford lacrosse team.

As an East Coast guy who played in the top Baltimore prep league, no one thought of Stanford as a lax school back then (80's). Hell, I would not have minded a lax scholarship to Stanford... But did they only have a club team? They wee not a real NCAA team.


The judge's characterization as some Stanford lacrosse athlete might be he was some wannabe.

And then maybe he gave sympathy to a guy on a real Stanford team, with regards to the sentence?

Last edited by dasmoocher; 06-09-2016 at 06:01 AM.
  #143  
Old 06-09-2016, 06:01 AM
RivkahChaya RivkahChaya is offline
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Originally Posted by Hey Hey Paula View Post
Along with the six month jail (not prison) time, he got three years probation and, more importantly, sex-offender registry for life, which is no small thing. He's most likely appealing the verdict in hopes of getting out of being on the sex offender registry.
I wonder if the fact that he will be on the registry, and there is anything the judge could do about that, a factor in the sentencing, in the judge's mind. Maybe the judge is thinking "being a registered sex offender for life is so punitive, he'll suffer enough. He doesn't NEED hard time."

I'm on record as not being a fan of the sex registry, especially "for life." I'd much rather see him get a 10 year prison sentence, with double time allotted for good behavior, the way it is in most states, so he might be on parole (which isn't probation) for five years after serving five years of actual prison time, then after that, another 2-3 years of probation where he could have conditions of probation like not drinking, and he'd be monitored, albeit not as closely as he was on parole, and have him be a felon for the rest of his life, which is bad enough, and a predicate felon if he ever commits another felony, even a non-violent one, so that a sentence for anything he does in the future will be longer and stronger, but after the 12 or 13 years, while he will still be a convicted felon, and an ex-con, he will be able to get a job, and live anywhere. He won't be driven to living off the grid, or into illegal activities-- or in this kid's particular, probably sponging off his parents, maybe even living with them, as long as they are not within a mile of a school or park.

I have no way of knowing what was in the judge's head, but I've just added another reason to my list of reason's why I'm against the registry-- it might result in lighter sentencing, if it's considered as a sentencing factor, you know, one of the things on the scale the judge weighs when he considers whether someone has been punished enough.
  #144  
Old 06-09-2016, 06:12 AM
RivkahChaya RivkahChaya is offline
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Originally Posted by Budget Player Cadet View Post
Err... There are clearly some shades of grey here. I'm pretty clearly able to give consent after a few beers. A lot of people get drunk and then want to have sex. Obviously, there's a line between "I'm a little tipsy, stick it in my pooper" (my experience at a club not that long ago) and blackout drunk, but given how long it takes to process alcohol, I don't think it's impossible for that line to be crossed at some point between giving consent the act ending. This, obviously, sucks.
It really depends on a lot of things. I've had sex with my husband while tipsy. My husband of, at the time, probably more than 10 years (it was 15 last March). In the context of an ongoing relationship, you know whether your partner is going to be OK with it in the morning. A hook-up is a completely different thing. You don't need to hear specific verbal consent every single time from a longtime SO, but everything needs to be very clear cut with a hook-up, especially with a stranger. I don't want to judge, but hook-ups with strangers are fraught with metaphoric landmines, relationships, and even casual hook-ups with friends are different. Personally, I've never slept with someone I just met, mainly because I was in my 20s in the late 80s and early 90s, but I don't think I would even if I suddenly found myself single now, and it's not a morals problem.
  #145  
Old 06-09-2016, 06:13 AM
SlackerInc SlackerInc is offline
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Originally Posted by MsRobyn View Post
A drunk person can't give consent.
Cite? I mean, if this is legally true, then something like 99.99999% of rapes are going unreported.
  #146  
Old 06-09-2016, 07:43 AM
Kobal2 Kobal2 is offline
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Originally Posted by Budget Player Cadet View Post
Err... There are clearly some shades of grey here. I'm pretty clearly able to give consent after a few beers. A lot of people get drunk and then want to have sex. Obviously, there's a line between "I'm a little tipsy, stick it in my pooper" (my experience at a club not that long ago) and blackout drunk, but given how long it takes to process alcohol, I don't think it's impossible for that line to be crossed at some point between giving consent the act ending. This, obviously, sucks.
There's no shade of grey whatsoever. Either a person wants to fuck you, or they don't. If they don't but do when plied with drinks, then taking advantage of it is rape. Simple and clear line.
So how do you know the difference ? You take them home, put them in bed and sleep on the couch or call them in the morning. Again, simple.
  #147  
Old 06-09-2016, 07:44 AM
WilyQuixote WilyQuixote is offline
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I was enjoying reading this pitting of an over privileged and entitled turd who received a shockingly light sentence.

But no rape discussion thread on the internet is ever complete until someone raises the "false allegations" boogeyman.
  #148  
Old 06-09-2016, 07:52 AM
RobDog RobDog is online now
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Originally Posted by SlackerInc View Post
Cite? I mean, if this is legally true, then something like 99.99999% of rapes are going unreported.
OK then. Yes... yes they are.
  #149  
Old 06-09-2016, 08:55 AM
muldoonthief muldoonthief is offline
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Originally Posted by Aspidistra View Post
Much as Brock Turner deserves every ounce of scorn that's coming his way, I can't really get behind the internet shaming of the ancilliary characters who came out in support of him - especially the ones who have been outed as supporting him based on statements they made before he was convicted.

Leslie Rassmussen, for instance, is clearly dumb as a stone, but mostly because she obviously still believes, deep in her heart of hearts, that the events of the evening include the victim voluntarily getting it on with Brock, and consenting while still conscious. Not because she thinks that collaring a random near-unconscious woman, shoving her behind a dumpster, beating her and sticking pine needles inside of her is an ok thing to do. I wouldn't want to make a friend of anyone so bloody stupid, but I'd be willing to go see a band she was in - I'm sure I've seen bands plenty of times before that had band members just as idiotic as she is.
But you can be a long time friend, and write a heartfelt letter in support of Turner, without turning it into a "they were both drunk, and she's probably lying" disaster. I'm guessing there were letters from other friends that took exactly that route - praised him for what he did and who he was in high school, but didn't go into any sort of defense of the crime itself.

And as said before - those letters were written after conviction, before sentencing.
  #150  
Old 06-09-2016, 09:08 AM
Dangerosa Dangerosa is offline
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Originally Posted by cmkeller View Post
Typical liberal apologists, throwing women under the bus. "We have to defend Bill Clinton's sexual harassment, otherwise, the conservatives will have scored a political point!" Now it's "We have to allow this judge to sentence rapists lightly, or else minorities will get heavy sentences!"

Keep voting for these guys, feminists. Maybe your interests (other than the sacred right to abortion) will come first in line some day. Any year, now.
.... any year now. But not this year when making a point about the Democrats being to moderate could endanger abortion rights.
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