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  #1  
Old 06-08-2016, 11:29 AM
QuickSilver QuickSilver is offline
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Is an apology enough?

The talking heads of various stripes are busy insisting that Trump has a very narrow window of time in which to turn things around and become a serious, disciplined candidate. In order to do so, he must first offer a full and unequivocal apology for the series of racist and misogynist remarks he's made since day one of his campaign.

Putting aside the fact that he seems demonstrably incapable of offering a sincere apology for anything he's ever said or done; What is the rational for even suggesting that an apology from Trump would be something that would be accepted by anyone at this point? Does anyone genuinely think that Trump is anything but what he's repeatedly demonstrated himself to be? Why even raise the subject of apology at this point? Would anything short of, "...therefore I am suspending my campaign", suffice?
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  #2  
Old 06-08-2016, 11:32 AM
iiandyiiii iiandyiiii is online now
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It's politics. I don't think anyone has any expectation that he will do so, but they feel obligated for political reasons to ask.
  #3  
Old 06-08-2016, 11:33 AM
BobLibDem BobLibDem is offline
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A bit of clarification and saying something like "I meant to say.... instead of saying...." would probably help with this situation. But we all know he can't help himself, he's going to repeatedly shoot himself in the foot time and time again in the next 5 months. His Republican critics are like the guy who picks up a snake and then is surprised when he gets bit- they should have known his nature before they picked him.
  #4  
Old 06-08-2016, 11:44 AM
Boyo Jim Boyo Jim is offline
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Originally Posted by QuickSilver View Post
The talking heads of various stripes are busy insisting that Trump has a very narrow window of time in which to turn things around and become a serious, disciplined candidate. In order to do so, he must first offer a full and unequivocal apology for the series of racist and misogynist remarks he's made since day one of his campaign. ...
Who has suggested this? I have not heard anyone saying it.
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Old 06-08-2016, 11:48 AM
Procrustus Procrustus is offline
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Who has suggested this? I have not heard anyone saying it.
Mitch McConnell said it

Probably others.
  #6  
Old 06-08-2016, 11:55 AM
Johnny Bravo Johnny Bravo is offline
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The apology isn't for the voter base, it's for the rest of the GOP elite. The apology gives them the room they need to move back to supporting Trump, so that they can go into interviews and say, "Look, he said some bad stuff but he's unequivocally apologized for them - now let's get back to the issues."

Without that they have no wiggle room whatsoever, and it's showing in the various interviews that the surrogates have been stupid enough to give while this is still front and center (though Trump is almost certainly ordering them to give those interviews and defend him in them).
  #7  
Old 06-08-2016, 11:56 AM
QuickSilver QuickSilver is offline
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Paul Ryan said Trump should withdraw racist comments.

By "withdraw", I assume he means apologize.
  #8  
Old 06-08-2016, 11:59 AM
John Mace John Mace is offline
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Mitch McConnell said it

Probably others.
Who said there is "a very narrow window of time in which to turn things around and become a serious, disciplined candidate"
  #9  
Old 06-08-2016, 12:02 PM
Zeke N. Destroi Zeke N. Destroi is offline
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Who said he needs to be serious and disciplined? It would seem his campaign is going fine as is.
  #10  
Old 06-08-2016, 12:12 PM
Procrustus Procrustus is offline
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Originally Posted by John Mace View Post
Who said there is "a very narrow window of time in which to turn things around and become a serious, disciplined candidate"
same article:

Quote:
McConnell and many prominent Republicans have criticized Trump’s remarks but continue to back him. Trump should apologize and “get on script,” McConnell said.

“It’s time for him to look like a serious candidate for president,” he said. “This could be a winnable race.”
  #11  
Old 06-08-2016, 12:12 PM
QuickSilver QuickSilver is offline
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Originally Posted by Johnny Bravo View Post
The apology isn't for the voter base, it's for the rest of the GOP elite. The apology gives them the room they need to move back to supporting Trump, so that they can go into interviews and say, "Look, he said some bad stuff but he's unequivocally apologized for them - now let's get back to the issues."

Without that they have no wiggle room whatsoever, and it's showing in the various interviews that the surrogates have been stupid enough to give while this is still front and center (though Trump is almost certainly ordering them to give those interviews and defend him in them).
But it's clear he's just about the worst of all possible Republican nominees. It's equally clear he's anti-RNC establishment. Why not sit back and let him continue to make an ass of himself, sans rush to endorse and then rush to retract endorsement (unless, apology!)? Left to his own devices and without their 'help' to make him a 'serious' candidate, he'll implode. Why continue to try to make a purse out of a sow's ear?
  #12  
Old 06-08-2016, 12:17 PM
QuickSilver QuickSilver is offline
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Who said there is "a very narrow window of time in which to turn things around and become a serious, disciplined candidate"
CNN, MSNBC, others.

And I happen to agree, "narrow window of time" is another one of those ridiculous and meaningless statements. Who decides on how much time and what drives that decision?
  #13  
Old 06-08-2016, 12:28 PM
Johnny Ace Johnny Ace is offline
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Completely academic. Trump will never apologize about anything.
  #14  
Old 06-08-2016, 12:29 PM
QuickSilver QuickSilver is offline
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Originally Posted by iiandyiiii View Post
It's politics. I don't think anyone has any expectation that he will do so, but they feel obligated for political reasons to ask.
Still leaving them with having a tiger by the tail.
  #15  
Old 06-08-2016, 12:35 PM
iiandyiiii iiandyiiii is online now
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Still leaving them with having a tiger by the tail.
I agree -- they put themselves in this situation, and it didn't just start with this election.
  #16  
Old 06-08-2016, 12:37 PM
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Who cares? When he said Mexican were rapists, turns out that's not exactly what he meant. When he slammed the judge for being unfair because he's Mexican ( he's not, he's American), he says his words are being misconstrued.

How can anybody believe one thing that comes out of this guy's mouth? He says A, when called on it denies he said A, then says he didn't mean A, then says everyone is just misunderstanding.

Not a single word coming from his mouth seems to amount to anything. Even to him. "That's not what I said!" Um, yes it is! "That's not what I meant!" Um, you said it was at the time!

He doesn't seem to care or bother to remember, what he's said about anything. His modus operandi seems to be not speaking in complete sentences as some sort of free pass to say anything at all and then claim it means A,B and C or D at any given moment.

There are more sincere snake oil salesmen!

Last edited by elbows; 06-08-2016 at 12:38 PM.
  #17  
Old 06-08-2016, 12:48 PM
Johnny Bravo Johnny Bravo is offline
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Why continue to try to make a purse out of a sow's ear?
Down ticket races. The more toxic Trump's campaign is, the more vulnerable all the other races become.
  #18  
Old 06-08-2016, 12:50 PM
elucidator elucidator is offline
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Of course its enough! I am a generous and forgiving person. If he apologizes, then I am obliged to accept it and consider the matter closed. Which only leaves all those other things he has said.

Go stand about half a mile from the beach, where you can just see it. Then go take a teaspoon of sand and remove it from the beach. Go back to where you were, and look. Any different?

Last edited by elucidator; 06-08-2016 at 12:51 PM.
  #19  
Old 06-08-2016, 01:01 PM
tomndebb tomndebb is offline
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Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by QuickSilver View Post
Why continue to try to make a purse out of a sow's ear?
Down ticket races. The more toxic Trump's campaign is, the more vulnerable all the other races become.
This.
They already know that they are screwed. If Trump wins, they are stuck with a buffoon who is bent on destroying the Republican Party by pandering to its worst elements who will drive off everyone else. If Trump loses, he is liable to drag down any number of Republican candidates for Senate and House seats, possibly giving Clinton a shot at doing more of the things the RNC opposes.

What they hope is that some number of voters will look on their efforts to tone down Trump as evidence that it is still worthwhile to vote for Republicans in Congress. The majority of party members are going to vote Republican, anyway; they are hoping to persuade enough anti-Clinton swing voters to continue to support Republican candidates rather than staying home and letting Democrats take more seats.
  #20  
Old 06-08-2016, 01:12 PM
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This is the guy, who in speaking to Evangelistics, stated that he has never asked God for forgiveness because he's never done anything that requires forgiveness.

That much narcissism and lack of self-awareness and you think he's actually capable of apologizing for his racism, meaning it and changing his behavior???

No chance. Best they could possibly hope for is a scripted, contrite statement, followed by 2-3 days of NOT being a barking racist.
  #21  
Old 06-08-2016, 01:19 PM
elucidator elucidator is offline
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This is the guy, who in speaking to Evangelistics, stated that he has never asked God for forgiveness because he's never done anything that requires forgiveness....
Whoa, wait. He said what? Not casting any asparagus, but that would be a cite for sour eyes. Bring, please?
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  #22  
Old 06-08-2016, 01:25 PM
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Whoa, wait. He said what? Not casting any asparagus, but that would be a cite for sour eyes. Bring, please?
Business Insider
Quote:
"I like to be good. I don't like to have to ask for forgiveness. And I am good. I don't do a lot of things that are bad. I try to do nothing that is bad."

"I am not sure I have," Trump said when asked if he'd ever asked God for forgiveness. "I just go on and try to do a better job from there. I don't think so," he said. "I think if I do something wrong, I think, I just try and make it right. I don't bring God into that picture. I don't."
  #23  
Old 06-08-2016, 01:25 PM
Johnny Bravo Johnny Bravo is offline
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Cite.

I believe that's it. The relevant quote:

Quote:
I like to do the right thing where I don’t actually have to ask for forgiveness. Does that make sense to you? You know, where you don’t make such bad things that you don’t have to ask for forgiveness. I mean, I’m trying to lead a life where I don’t have to ask God for forgiveness….Why do I have to repent? Why do I have to ask for forgiveness if you’re not making mistakes?
If you Google the last sentence of the quote you'll find buckets of cites.

edit: Figures that a guy named running coach would get there first.

Last edited by Johnny Bravo; 06-08-2016 at 01:29 PM.
  #24  
Old 06-08-2016, 01:27 PM
elucidator elucidator is offline
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Well, he's got a whistle.
  #25  
Old 06-08-2016, 01:31 PM
YogSothoth YogSothoth is offline
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Not enough. It will fool some people, but not enough
  #26  
Old 06-08-2016, 01:31 PM
elucidator elucidator is offline
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TX, guys. I have this hyper-Christian relative....well, you know how this goes.

I'm seeing something strange here, and not for the first time. I peruse a lot of news feeds to get the same news from different slants, but this is kinda odd, wondering if anybody else sees it....

Which is, I see banners "Trump modifying public statements, cooling his shit jets". And also "No apparent change in volume of flaming bullshit from Trump". Anybody else seeing this?

Last edited by elucidator; 06-08-2016 at 01:32 PM.
  #27  
Old 06-08-2016, 01:53 PM
Dangerosa Dangerosa is offline
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Down ticket races. The more toxic Trump's campaign is, the more vulnerable all the other races become.
And long term party viability. The smart people in the GOP know that overt racism and misogyny is a demographic nightmare for them that only gets worse every four years.
  #28  
Old 06-08-2016, 01:56 PM
elucidator elucidator is offline
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And long term party viability. The smart people in the GOP know that overt racism and misogyny is a demographic nightmare for them that only gets worse every four years.
And the decent, reasonable people in the GOP would reject that even if it were an electoral bonanza! Unanimous, they both would!
  #29  
Old 06-08-2016, 02:30 PM
QuickSilver QuickSilver is offline
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This.
They already know that they are screwed. If Trump wins, they are stuck with a buffoon who is bent on destroying the Republican Party by pandering to its worst elements who will drive off everyone else. If Trump loses, he is liable to drag down any number of Republican candidates for Senate and House seats, possibly giving Clinton a shot at doing more of the things the RNC opposes.

What they hope is that some number of voters will look on their efforts to tone down Trump as evidence that it is still worthwhile to vote for Republicans in Congress. The majority of party members are going to vote Republican, anyway; they are hoping to persuade enough anti-Clinton swing voters to continue to support Republican candidates rather than staying home and letting Democrats take more seats.
As you say, they've already screwed the pooch. Best thing they can do now is minimize damage and find their spines.

Instead of trying to rein Trump in and risk further embarrassment - which will almost certainly happen - why not deploy the 10 foot pole now. Give every down-ballot candidate the freedom to disavow Trump (something they've already started doing) and leave him out to dry.

He cannot lead a party that is unwilling to follow, can he?

Last edited by QuickSilver; 06-08-2016 at 02:31 PM.
  #30  
Old 06-08-2016, 02:39 PM
Johnny Bravo Johnny Bravo is offline
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They can't do it before the convention. Trump is popular enough that if they cut him loose now, he might take his ball and go home, except in this case "the ball" is his legion of very enthusiastic supporters.

The elite may not like him much, but vast swaths of the party are in love with him.
  #31  
Old 06-08-2016, 02:39 PM
TriPolar TriPolar is offline
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Originally Posted by QuickSilver View Post
A

He cannot lead a party that is unwilling to follow, can he?
The party is following him, their leaders are only doing so reluctantly if at all. His party wants him, he's the guy their leaders told them they were but did walk the walk after they were elected, and they believe Trump will do that for them, and even if he doesn't that's no different than what they have already.

Trump has gone directly to the base of the Republican party and they have responded. Until he walks out of the convention as the official nominee of the Republican Party he is not going change course. I don't know if he'll do anything different then, but he's not about to provide doubt to the people who got him this far and let the GOP establishment find a way to take the nomination from him. As long as the Republican Party members keep backing Trump poobahs will be afraid to pull anything.
  #32  
Old 06-08-2016, 03:34 PM
BrainGlutton BrainGlutton is offline
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It's too late. It's not just the things Trump has said since announcing his candidacy, it's his whole life on public record. There is not time between now and November for him to walk all that back, not even if he claimed to have finally found Jesus this year or otherwise undergone a fundamental moral conversion.
  #33  
Old 06-08-2016, 03:37 PM
Barkis is Willin' Barkis is Willin' is offline
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Apologize for basically his entire campaign to this point? What a terrible idea. Nobody would take it seriously. If they did, he'd disconnect those supporters who were drawn to him in the first place. Trump has not been about placating Mitch McConnell to this point. Why start now?
  #34  
Old 06-08-2016, 03:46 PM
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Apologies are just dances in politics. I don't want them nor do I expect them. If it's something you said, then I'll judge you based on whether you misspoke or accidentally told the truth. If it's something you did, fix it. If it's something you didn't do that you were supposed to do, do it.

Trump is irredeemable at this point. Just let him be Trump and we can all enjoy the show.
  #35  
Old 06-08-2016, 03:49 PM
Sherrerd Sherrerd is offline
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...He doesn't seem to care or bother to remember, what he's said about anything. His modus operandi seems to be not speaking in complete sentences as some sort of free pass to say anything at all and then claim it means A,B and C or D at any given moment. ...
Trump's entire life has been a free pass.

Some wealthy people do raise their children to become responsible adults (Warren Buffett, for example). But some do not. Perhaps they just can't be bothered. Perhaps they don't see any reason to make the effort.

Whatever the cause, Trump has never managed to grow out of the Terrible Twos. He's still there, emotionally.
  #36  
Old 06-08-2016, 03:50 PM
QuickSilver QuickSilver is offline
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It's too late. It's not just the things Trump has said since announcing his candidacy, it's his whole life on public record. There is not time between now and November for him to walk all that back, not even if he claimed to have finally found Jesus this year or otherwise undergone a fundamental moral conversion.
I think some people are making the argument that the apology isn't meant to put Trump in better standing - it can't be done. The apology is to help insulate party leaders (Ryan, McConnell, Preibus, Congressmen et al), who have endorsed him, from the worst of the criticism that (I think) fairly paints them as unprincipled cowards.
  #37  
Old 06-08-2016, 04:11 PM
Sherrerd Sherrerd is offline
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I think some people are making the argument that the apology isn't meant to put Trump in better standing - it can't be done. The apology is to help insulate party leaders (Ryan, McConnell, Preibus, Congressmen et al), who have endorsed him, from the worst of the criticism that (I think) fairly paints them as unprincipled cowards.
That's absolutely true.

But it's also true that Trump has no interest whatsoever in making things easier for Ryan, McConnell, et al.

He won't apologize; apologizing violates his brand.
  #38  
Old 06-08-2016, 06:13 PM
Trinopus Trinopus is offline
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. . . He won't apologize; apologizing violates his brand.
This. The best the Republicans can hope for (and the worst that Democrats can fear) is that from this point forward Trump starts acting "Presidential." If he makes the "swing to the center" that normally occurs after the conventions and before November, and if he stops making overtly racist comments, then the failure of the typical voter's long-term-memory will work for him.

"Oh, that was during the primaries. It doesn't count. Listen to what he's saying now."

Does he have the wisdom? He might. He might actually listen to his strategists and handlers and advisers.

(Anybody wanna give me odds? I figure he won't go two months without putting his brogans in his pie-hole.)
  #39  
Old 06-08-2016, 06:15 PM
Gorsnak Gorsnak is offline
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I think some people are making the argument that the apology isn't meant to put Trump in better standing - it can't be done. The apology is to help insulate party leaders (Ryan, McConnell, Preibus, Congressmen et al), who have endorsed him, from the worst of the criticism that (I think) fairly paints them as unprincipled cowards.
Meh. They have a perfectly straightforward way of refuting charges of being unprincipled cowards. They just are brave or principled enough to take it.
  #40  
Old 06-08-2016, 09:30 PM
Pearl Clutching Provocateur Pearl Clutching Provocateur is offline
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Who cares? When he said Mexican were rapists, turns out that's not exactly what he meant. When he slammed the judge for being unfair because he's Mexican ( he's not, he's American), he says his words are being misconstrued.
So an elderly Black woman said I spoke English well. What should have my response have been? "Of course I can you dumb bitch?" Perhaps, I should have screamed her in her face that she was a racist? People need to stop being so sensitive.

Trump never said all Mexicans were rapists. The open border allows many criminals to enter the USA, and that's a fact.
  #41  
Old 06-08-2016, 09:34 PM
running coach running coach is offline
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Trump never said all Mexicans were rapists. The open border allows many criminals to enter the USA, and that's a fact.
Cite?
  #42  
Old 06-08-2016, 09:37 PM
kaylasdad99 kaylasdad99 is offline
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No. An apology is not enough.

Never having been a candidate for the Republican nomination in the first place is necessary (but likely still insufficient).
  #43  
Old 06-08-2016, 09:39 PM
kaylasdad99 kaylasdad99 is offline
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So an elderly Black woman said I spoke English well. What should have my response have been? "Of course I can you dumb bitch?" Perhaps, I should have screamed her in her face that she was a racist? People need to stop being so sensitive.

Trump never said all Mexicans were rapists. The open border allows many criminals to enter the USA, and that's a fact.
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Originally Posted by running coach View Post
Cite?
Watch out for weasel words. Before you request a cite, get him to define "many."
  #44  
Old 06-08-2016, 09:49 PM
tomndebb tomndebb is offline
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Originally Posted by Pearl Clutching Provocateur View Post
So an elderly Black woman said I spoke English well. What should have my response have been? "Of course I can you dumb bitch?" Perhaps, I should have screamed her in her face that she was a racist? People need to stop being so sensitive.
The least sensitive person in this presidential election cycle has been Trump who has responded to legitimate questions and mild comments with over-the-top personally directed vitriol--and usually lied when he did it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pearl Clutching Provocateur View Post
Trump never said all Mexicans were rapists. The open border allows many criminals to enter the USA, and that's a fact.
Trump said that Mexico was sending criminals to the U.S., as if it was a deliberate political policy of the Mexican government. If you do not even know what he actually said, why offer commentary?
  #45  
Old 06-08-2016, 10:37 PM
coremelt coremelt is offline
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Trump will never apologize and walk the party line. His whole selling point has been that he's not a GOP puppet and of course he doesn't think he has anything to apologise for. It's going to be fun watching the GOP simultaneously try and say they support him, while distancing themselves as much as possible in their individual down ticket races.
  #46  
Old 06-09-2016, 03:29 AM
Disgruntled Penguin Disgruntled Penguin is offline
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CNN, MSNBC, others.

And I happen to agree, "narrow window of time" is another one of those ridiculous and meaningless statements. Who decides on how much time and what drives that decision?
In this case, I'm guessing it's reality that decides. The election is in November and there is a finite amount of time between now and then and the clock is running. He's got about 5 months tops. That is a narrow window of time. Are you saying that if he changes a couple of years from now it'll somehow affect this election? If not, narrow window of time
  #47  
Old 06-09-2016, 09:45 AM
QuickSilver QuickSilver is offline
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In this case, I'm guessing it's reality that decides. The election is in November and there is a finite amount of time between now and then and the clock is running. He's got about 5 months tops. That is a narrow window of time. Are you saying that if he changes a couple of years from now it'll somehow affect this election? If not, narrow window of time
I am not saying anything of the sort. It's the pundits and party hacks in the media who keep saying, 'He has a couple of weeks to change his rhetoric ....'. As if a couple of weeks from his last racist set of remarks is some sort of magical number within which to offer a retraction and officially stop acting like a buffoon in order to clean the slate.

The time to have done that was before he started his campaign.

The only meaningful date coming up, before the November election is the RNC convention.
  #48  
Old 06-09-2016, 09:59 AM
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I am not saying anything of the sort. It's the pundits and party hacks in the media who keep saying, 'He has a couple of weeks to change his rhetoric ....'. As if a couple of weeks from his last racist set of remarks is some sort of magical number within which to offer a retraction and officially stop acting like a buffoon in order to clean the slate.

The time to have done that was before he started his campaign.

The only meaningful date coming up, before the November election is the RNC convention.
I think they mean by the convention. I think they feel like the narrative will be set by then, and funding opportunities lost.
  #49  
Old 06-09-2016, 10:41 AM
QuickSilver QuickSilver is offline
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So an elderly Black woman said I spoke English well. What should have my response have been? "Of course I can you dumb bitch?" Perhaps, I should have screamed her in her face that she was a racist? People need to stop being so sensitive.
Not exactly.

If she had said to you, "Foreigners like you can't be trusted to come up with a correct analogy", I believe then you would have been well within your right to call her a racist.
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