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  #51  
Old 07-20-2016, 09:47 AM
Chronos Chronos is offline
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The Catholic Church has a similar "age of reason" rule for First Communion (I think the age is usually considered to be about 7 years by default, though it can be shifted in individual cases), and another somewhat older age for confirmation, where you're expected to have a greater degree of understanding.
  #52  
Old 07-23-2016, 02:54 PM
Annie-Xmas Annie-Xmas is offline
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I once witnessed some people getting full immersion baptisms one Saturday morning in a park's swimming pool.

I think they were Baptists.
  #53  
Old 07-23-2016, 06:31 PM
BigT BigT is offline
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Originally Posted by Irishman View Post
"An adult" isn't necessary in some sects. I was raised Southern Baptist, and was baptized when I was IIRC 9 years old. What was important was the idea that I was old enough to request it and to understand the nature of baptism and what it symbolized.
Exactly. I was 5. They quizzed me, and I understood. And, yes, I really understood--I wasn't just parroting answers.

I'm glad, too, since it completely predated my aquaphobia.

It's much better than the Pentecostal Church I went to that basically peer pressured me into getting baptized. Though I did appreciate the special water-proof zip up robe. No need to have brought a change of clothes.

Last edited by BigT; 07-23-2016 at 06:32 PM.
  #54  
Old 07-23-2016, 06:35 PM
BigT BigT is offline
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Oh, yeah. Infant baptism. But that has to require the parents' permission, right? I mean, the relevant Scriptures have stuff about how it is the belief of the parent that saves the child before the age of accountability.
  #55  
Old 07-24-2016, 03:06 AM
gkster gkster is offline
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As the Mortara case referred to up thread shows, parental consent is not a requirement for infant baptism in Catholic belief. In fact sometimes it's the reverse--I know Catholic grandparents upset that their lapsed Catholic adult children are not having their own children baptized, and the grandparents have taken the opportunity when alone with the infant grandchildren to perform a baptism, knowing well that the parents would not consent.
  #56  
Old 07-24-2016, 06:39 AM
Nava Nava is offline
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Originally Posted by gkster View Post
As the Mortara case referred to up thread shows, parental consent is not a requirement for infant baptism in Catholic belief. In fact sometimes it's the reverse--I know Catholic grandparents upset that their lapsed Catholic adult children are not having their own children baptized, and the grandparents have taken the opportunity when alone with the infant grandchildren to perform a baptism, knowing well that the parents would not consent.
With a priest involved, or at home? Because if a priest was involved his bishop should have slapped him from here to Orion, and if no priest was involved those kids won't be raised Catholic any more than if they hadn't been baptized and no Church records of the baptism exist. Way to piss off the kid's parents and push the whole lot further away. Or do the kids not even know they've been baptized?

Last edited by Nava; 07-24-2016 at 06:40 AM.
  #57  
Old 07-24-2016, 08:57 PM
UDS UDS is offline
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Yup. As a matter of canon law an infant will only be baptised if the infant's parents request it and, even then, only if the priest or bishop forms at least "a well-founded hope" that the child will be brought up in the church.

Infant baptisms performed in breach of this rule are regarded as valid, but illicit.
  #58  
Old 07-24-2016, 10:10 PM
Leo Bloom Leo Bloom is offline
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Originally Posted by Nava View Post
With a priest involved, or at home? Because if a priest was involved his bishop should have slapped him from here to Orion, and if no priest was involved those kids won't be raised Catholic any more than if they hadn't been baptized and no Church records of the baptism exist. Way to piss off the kid's parents and push the whole lot further away. Or do the kids not even know they've been baptized?
This gets intra-secty, but is in the same ballpark: family member (Jew) married non-Jew, who didn't convert but was comfortable entering and creating a Jewish upbringing, which she has most admirably done over the decades.

The mohel [pronounced "moyel], the foreskin-cutter guy on the baby's eighth day--not necessarily a Rabbi, but obviously trained physically and (presumably) pious, trusted with this important "baptism" into the Covenant.

So he does his thing, says the pre- and post prayers and psalms.

Family happy Jews, ditto kid. To the Orthodox, it don't mean squat. To boot, the mohel (Orthodox) skipped the sentence, the Main Sentence, the actual phrase of "blah-blah welcome aboard"), and Family and Kid, to this day, don't know it.

So shit happens.

Last edited by Leo Bloom; 07-24-2016 at 10:13 PM.
  #59  
Old 07-24-2016, 10:39 PM
drewder drewder is offline
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Less common for LDS than it used to be. In areas without a baptismal font people will be baptized any body of water that is convenient. In my mother's congregation in Cleveland Ohio, circa 1944, they were baptized in the local Y swimming pool and then after the baptism the whole congregation would have a pool party. As I understand it some other pool patrons complained about swimming in other people sins....

Last edited by drewder; 07-24-2016 at 10:39 PM.
  #60  
Old 07-25-2016, 12:19 AM
Monty Monty is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gkster View Post
As the Mortara case referred to up thread shows, parental consent is not a requirement for infant baptism in Catholic belief. In fact sometimes it's the reverse--I know Catholic grandparents upset that their lapsed Catholic adult children are not having their own children baptized, and the grandparents have taken the opportunity when alone with the infant grandchildren to perform a baptism, knowing well that the parents would not consent.
That strikes me as a very good way to end up with absolutely no contact between the grandparents and the parents, not to mention the parents cutting off all contact between the grands and the kid.
  #61  
Old 07-25-2016, 06:42 AM
Chronos Chronos is offline
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There do seem to be a lot of mostly-lapsed Catholics who still get their kids baptized, though. My church has several baptisms a month with families that we never see again at any of the masses.
  #62  
Old 07-25-2016, 06:58 AM
Giles Giles is offline
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Originally Posted by md2000 View Post
In 2011 We visited the site where John the Baptist did Jesus (of course, as asserted by locals in 1000AD or so to entertain visiting crusaders. The area had apparently recently re-opened, after John the Baptist had been relocated for many years further north on a less contested part of the Jordan River. )
....
However, I suspect this was less a first-time baptism for them, and more likely a repeat performance because of the location.
I visited the same site last year, and there were some groups who looked South Asian doing what were probably repeat baptisms. It would be very interesting if Christian denominations demanded full-immersion baptism in the Jordan River

(My own baptism was in the Anglican Communion. I remember it well, because it was adult baptism, at the age of 12, because I wanted to be confirmed, like my classmates in scripture class. And it wasn't full immersion -- just a little sprinkling of water.)
  #63  
Old 07-25-2016, 07:44 AM
Nava Nava is offline
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Originally Posted by Chronos View Post
There do seem to be a lot of mostly-lapsed Catholics who still get their kids baptized, though. My church has several baptisms a month with families that we never see again at any of the masses.
The key point being that "mostly". I know many of those, as well as many others who suddenly remember the kid is baptized come First Communion age or others who will go to Mass until the youngest has had Communion and the kids choose their own ways.
  #64  
Old 07-25-2016, 12:20 PM
MacLir MacLir is offline
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Originally Posted by drewder View Post
Less common for LDS than it used to be. In areas without a baptismal font people will be baptized any body of water that is convenient.
At least for the local LDS congregations, the baptism is a semi-private ceremony by invitation. I have ended up as a "plus one" when a couple of my daughter's friends invited her.

The font is a pool in the floor, like a seatless hot tub, and with an angled mirror overhead for that viewpoint. The baptism is done by the father of the family, rather than an ordained minister (Well, OK, to them he is an ordained priest, but you know what I meant …).

Last edited by MacLir; 07-25-2016 at 12:21 PM.
  #65  
Old 07-29-2016, 07:58 PM
Monty Monty is offline
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Originally Posted by MacLir View Post
At least for the local LDS congregations, the baptism is a semi-private ceremony by invitation. I have ended up as a "plus one" when a couple of my daughter's friends invited her.
The baptism isn't semi-private; it's completely public. The event is announced at a Sacrament Service before the baptismal service. Obviously, those folks who don't happen to attend said service won't be there to hear the announcement. This has led to the tradition of sending out invitations to people the family or the person getting baptized (why isn't baptizee in the dictionary?) wishes to witness the event but were not present for the announcement in church.

Quote:
The font is a pool in the floor, like a seatless hot tub, and with an angled mirror overhead for that viewpoint.
I've seen quite the variety of fonts in LDS chapels around the world. Some are as you described; others are at one side of the room with cinema-style chairs on an inclined floor; while others are set in a room next to one of the classrooms and a large sliding door is opened so those observing can crowd the railing across the doorway and glimpse the event.

Quote:
The baptism is done by the father of the family, rather than an ordained minister (Well, OK, to them he is an ordained priest, but you know what I meant ).
If the father has been ordained to the office of Priest in the Aaronic Priesthood or to any office in the Melchizedek Priesthood, then he can perform the ordinance. Otherwise, that honor goes to whomever the family/baptizee requests provided, of course, the person requested has received the appropriate ordination. For example, when my best friend converted years ago, he requested I perform the ceremony, which I did--at the mouth of the Carmel River in California.
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