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  #1  
Old 09-03-2016, 06:13 PM
guitario guitario is offline
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If you're in the military and you decide to quit.. what happens?

So let's just imagine a scenario where someone passes their training, becomes a fully fledged member of the Marines, Army, Navy, Air force or whatever, and say, 3 months in they wake up one morning and decide they don't want to do it.

What is likely (not potentially) to happen?

So I am new in the Marines, I've been turning up on the job for 3 months (my nearest base, non deployed) and one day I just want a change in career as it's not for me.. I send them a resignation letter, and am prepared to face the consequences..

What happens next?

Are they happy to get rid and thus send me on my way with a dishonorable discharge? Does length of service dictate the severity of discipline?
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Old 09-03-2016, 06:15 PM
aceplace57 aceplace57 is online now
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You heard of the The United States Disciplinary Barracks (or USDB) at Leavenworth?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United...inary_Barracks

I think the Navy facility is in Maine? Portsmouth Naval Prison IIRC
That may have changed since my dad served.

Last edited by aceplace57; 09-03-2016 at 06:19 PM.
  #3  
Old 09-03-2016, 06:24 PM
engineer_comp_geek engineer_comp_geek is online now
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Theoretically, you could be sentenced to death.

As a practical matter, according to wikipedia, since 2001, no soldier has been sentenced to more than 24 months in prison.
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Old 09-03-2016, 06:26 PM
Lemur866 Lemur866 is offline
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Announcing you want to quit won't get you sent to Leavenworth. If your commanding officer gave you orders and you refused to obey, that might get you sent to Leavenworth, depending. But as long as you keep doing your job in the period between when you decide to quit and when the military finally agrees that you're done, then you're fine.
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Old 09-03-2016, 06:30 PM
guitario guitario is offline
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For what it's worth I'm British, so I don't know how we differ from the Americans in this aspect.

Although I'm sure this sort of thing happens every year.. there must be a procedure to deal with it?
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Old 09-03-2016, 06:48 PM
DinoR DinoR is offline
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British regulations obviously would differ.

For the US Army there's a Chapter 11 "failure to adapt" discharge possible for the first 180 days. You may well not be out of your MOS specific training and considered deployable yet at 180 days. That may or may not apply to how you perceive "fully fledged."

After that we're into a deep dive of different types of Admin discharges, UCMJ, and Commander's discretion. Even during the height of Iraq and Afghanistan it wasn't all that difficult to get out. The system doesn't necessarily make it pleasant, though. The potential characterization of the discharge can produce life long effects as well.
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Old 09-03-2016, 06:53 PM
guitario guitario is offline
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So you may say it's a case of you can do it, but they won't make it easy for you.. but if you succeed, that's your career finished?
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Old 09-03-2016, 06:56 PM
King Rat King Rat is offline
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You can't quit. There is no such thing as resigning for enlisteds. You may have heard of an officer resigning their commission. That only happens after they have completed their obligation (typically 5-8 years) and want to leave.

While in boot camp it is possible to quit but they really will hassle you about it. But once you graduate boot camp, that's that. Your stuck for the duration of your contract (typically 2-6 years).

So what do you do if you realize you've made a huge mistake? The best is to just grin and bear it. After only three months don't think it will all be bad. Don't become a "shitbird." Satisfactorily completing your enlistment will bring you benefits that you may not appreciate now.

For example, who knew that 4 years of service 30 years ago means I am now exempt from Obamacare penalties, as I can get services at the VA .
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Old 09-03-2016, 07:03 PM
aceplace57 aceplace57 is online now
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My dad served 22 years and always said boot camp was the worst. It's designed to take civilians and mold them into soldiers. He quickly learned how to adapt to military service. Learning which rules that could be bent and rules that absolutely must be followed. He thrived in the military and reached Master Sergeant. His last assignment was First Sergeant of the squadron.

It's not for everybody. A lot of people leave after their first enlistment ends.

Last edited by aceplace57; 09-03-2016 at 07:04 PM.
  #10  
Old 09-03-2016, 07:08 PM
guitario guitario is offline
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Originally Posted by King Rat View Post
You can't quit. There is no such thing as resigning for enlisteds. You may have heard of an officer resigning their commission. That only happens after they have completed their obligation (typically 5-8 years) and want to leave.

While in boot camp it is possible to quit but they really will hassle you about it. But once you graduate boot camp, that's that. Your stuck for the duration of your contract (typically 2-6 years).

So what do you do if you realize you've made a huge mistake? The best is to just grin and bear it. After only three months don't think it will all be bad. Don't become a "shitbird." Satisfactorily completing your enlistment will bring you benefits that you may not appreciate now.

For example, who knew that 4 years of service 30 years ago means I am now exempt from Obamacare penalties, as I can get services at the VA .
I understand what you're saying, but there is such a thing as quitting, as I'm sure people try it everyday... that's what I'm looking for - what happens if someone just doesn't want to commit to that life anymore..

I am assuming the penalty isn't as much as it was in the old days, but then again I have no idea about these things.. hence the curiosity. I enjoy playing devils advocate and asking questions as that's how I like to learn.
  #11  
Old 09-03-2016, 07:41 PM
DinoR DinoR is offline
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So you may say it's a case of you can do it, but they won't make it easy for you.. but if you succeed, that's your career finished?
Commander's discretion.

Possible isn't the same as it's common or everyone can on a whim. It probably takes more than simply saying you want out though. (A couple refusal to deploy admin discharges I'm aware of weren't driven by much more than a statement though.) Follow on misbehavior like refusing to follow orders or just not showing up (aka desertion) likely become necessary to give them a reason to kick you out and stop "wasting time" on you. You can want to quit all you want ...as long as you keep showing up and doing your job. It's when you take action to quit doing your job or not show up that things spin up.

It's not a Commander's job to make it easy on you to get out. It may be in his best interest to make it easy on himself and his leaders by discharging someone who also happens to want out. There's a big difference.
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Old 09-03-2016, 07:49 PM
King Rat King Rat is offline
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Originally Posted by guitario View Post
I understand what you're saying, but there is such a thing as quitting, as I'm sure people try it everyday... that's what I'm looking for - what happens if someone just doesn't want to commit to that life anymore..

I am assuming the penalty isn't as much as it was in the old days, but then again I have no idea about these things.. hence the curiosity. I enjoy playing devils advocate and asking questions as that's how I like to learn.
You can see the types of discharges here (mayne you've already looked): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milita...s_of_discharge

Forget about a Dishonorable after only 3 months service and ail you do is either go AWOL or refuse to do your assigned duties. A Dishonorable Discharge is very serious. A BCD is unlikely as well, but now we are getting into the area of legal advice and I am not a lawyer. There are also non-judicial punishments (not requiring a court martial) that can make life unpleasant, such as forfeiture of pay, being busted down in rank, extra duty, not being allowed off the base.

So someone who is relatively brand new and just wants to "quit" may indeed eventually get their wish, but what will their punishment will be, I can't exactly say.

Last edited by King Rat; 09-03-2016 at 07:52 PM.
  #13  
Old 09-03-2016, 09:04 PM
Musicat Musicat is offline
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The smartest thing to do would be to serve out your enlistment or draft period. Then you're done, with an honorable discharge, and don't have any black marks on your record that you would have to explain to future employers or anyone else.
  #14  
Old 09-03-2016, 11:17 PM
Hail Ants Hail Ants is offline
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Originally Posted by engineer_comp_geek View Post
Theoretically, you could be sentenced to death.

As a practical matter, according to wikipedia, since 2001, no soldier has been sentenced to more than 24 months in prison.
I think the death penalty is only applicable during times of war. Being that modern wars are rarely 'declared' anymore it would apply to desertion or dereliction of duty (i.e. quitting) such that you endangered your fellow soldiers.
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Old 09-03-2016, 11:25 PM
Lemur866 Lemur866 is offline
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As was said above, there are two possible actions you can take. You can loudly proclaim that you want out of this chickenshit outfit to anyone and everyone, but you still do your job and obey orders.

The other is that you refuse to do your job.

You're going to have very different outcomes from these two strategies.
  #16  
Old 09-04-2016, 01:01 AM
ZipperJJ ZipperJJ is offline
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You can desert and join the French Foreign Legion like this fella: http://www.rollingstone.com/culture/...-life-20150924
  #17  
Old 09-04-2016, 04:14 AM
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For what it's worth I'm British, so I don't know how we differ from the Americans in this aspect.

Although I'm sure this sort of thing happens every year.. there must be a procedure to deal with it?
As far as I can tell from research, we are no different from the US. There is a common belief that a soldier can "buy himself out", but as far as I can tell, that only applies to very young soldiers. Grown-ups have to stick it out or resort to subterfuges like shooting themselves in the foot.
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Old 09-04-2016, 06:56 AM
aldiboronti aldiboronti is offline
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I'm British and served in the British Army On The Rhine in the 1960s.One of the guys in our unit was always getting into trouble and eventually declared he was quitting and would not obey orders, etc. He was promptly marched to the guardroom and locked up. It was technically called 'refusing to soldier' and was a court martial offense with very heavy penalties, including a long term in a military prison. In time of war it would have been a capital offense.

In this guy's case they stripped him of his unifom and left him naked in his cell on a subsistence diet. (I don't know if this was proper military procedure or an embellishment on the part of the guardhouse commander. Probably the latter.) Anyway he lasted 2 days and then said he'd changed his mind! After a sentence of a few weeks' imprisonment it was back to duty for the reluctant soldier.

Last edited by aldiboronti; 09-04-2016 at 06:57 AM.
  #19  
Old 09-04-2016, 08:07 AM
LSLGuy LSLGuy is offline
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Originally Posted by King Rat View Post
...
For example, who knew that 4 years of service 30 years ago means I am now exempt from Obamacare penalties, as I can get services at the VA .
I'm not disputing you, but I'm confused about the above.

My understanding is that VA services are only available for people with a service-connected disability. The mere fact of having served a few years and gotten out intact does NOT establish eligibility for VA health care. I've done some recent looking into this out of curiosity as I'm slowly approaching retirement and the end of my cushy company-provided medical plan. (That I pay a few hundred per month for. )

So did you have a service-connected disability, or are the eligibility criteria more complex and inclusive than my research has shown me?

Thanks for any insight. And yes, I've stepped through the VA's website's decision tree.

Last edited by LSLGuy; 09-04-2016 at 08:07 AM.
  #20  
Old 09-04-2016, 09:19 AM
Chefguy Chefguy is offline
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The smart thing to do would be to talk to a JAG officer to see if you have any discharge options. The answer will likely be "no". If that's the case, you have a couple of options:

1. You can turn yourself into a fuckup. This won't guarantee that you'll be discharged, but it will guarantee that you will lose your self respect and the respect of most everybody else. You will also lose a lot of money and free time from the disciplinary actions, and spend the rest of your military time being miserable. You will get every shit assignment that comes along and will probably learn nothing. The road to an early discharge (other than medical) is not a pleasant one.

2. You can decide "Well, this was a mistake, but I'm stuck for the next few years so I'm going to make the best of it." You make yourself an asset to the organization, take on tough jobs, learn everything you can, and earn the respect of your colleagues and superiors. When your time is done you move on with a sense of accomplishment and an honorable discharge.

Last edited by Chefguy; 09-04-2016 at 09:22 AM.
  #21  
Old 09-04-2016, 10:22 AM
Chihuahua Chihuahua is offline
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Originally Posted by aceplace57 View Post
You heard of the The United States Disciplinary Barracks (or USDB) at Leavenworth?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United...inary_Barracks

I think the Navy facility is in Maine? Portsmouth Naval Prison IIRC
That may have changed since my dad served.
Good Lord...

I have never seen anybody actually sent to Leavenworth. Even soldiers I've seen put in confinement for months at a time were not actually sent to Leavenworth. There are many different military prisons, and on the few occasions I've seen people actually get sentenced to confinement they just put them up in the county prison for a few months. Seriously, you really have to piss somebody off to get Leavenworth or a Dishonorable Discharge. The DD is reserved for the very worst criminals. Keep in mind that even the military has a sense of priorities and proportion. There is no way some General is going to convene a General Courts-Martial just to send some idiot private to prison for years. It's just dumb.

The correct answer is that there are no minimum or mandatory sentences in the military. There are maximum sentencing restrictions based on the level of UCMJ you are receiving. The easiest possible solution to the scenario OP presented is Entry Level Discharge with Uncharacterized service. Translation: "You are such a loser that you couldn't even finish six months, so we're sending you home to your Mommy."

I've seen several people get out in situations very similar to what OP describes. What happens is the Commander takes them aside and tells them, in no uncertain terms, that they are going to have a very rough time of it if they just refuse to participate. If the person still doesn't comply (not showing up for work, not performing his duties, etc) then they are treated as a disciplinary problem and given an Article 15 (a few weeks of reduced pay and extra work). If they still refuse to do their jobs, they get confined to the barracks and the separation process begins.

There are a couple of different UCMJ Chapters for kicking people out depending on the nature of the malfunction. The most likely candidate is Chapter 14 - Misconduct (for failing to perform their duties). They can get a General or Other-Than-Honorable characterization. (Bad Conduct and Dishonorable can only be levied by a Courts-Martial.) Both are bad news and can impact your eligibility for VA benefits. They can also result in things like forfeiture of any enlistment bonuses and other incentives (like college repayment).

Whether it impacts your life after the military really depends on who you are dealing with. Many employers will ask for a DD214 so they can verify your service record. If I saw a job applicant show up with anything but "Honorable" in Block 24, that resume would go straight in the shredder. Every business manager I know would do the same. But you never know... If you applied for a job with the ACLU or Al Jazeera or something, they'd probably consider it a positive.
  #22  
Old 09-04-2016, 11:24 AM
watchwolf49 watchwolf49 is offline
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Good Lord ... [snip]
Thank you, Chihuahua, your post is very close to what my understanding was back 30 years ago. I was told in no uncertain terms if I wanted out, just ask, it would be arranged. Just please don't break any rules or regulations, it wasn't necessary.

If you did break a rule, most likely you'd be offered an Article 15 discharge, either a General or Other Than Honorable. For clarity, Article 15 allows what is called "non-judicial punishment", you admit neither guilt nor innocence, you simply accept punishment without any kind of conviction or trial. That's handy since it's very quickly done and it won't follow you into the civilian world.

The alternative is a Courts Marshall, roughly the same thing as a criminal trial. If found guilty, this is a conviction and it is a felony conviction, it will follow you the rest of your life. Only a Courts Marshall can issue a Dishonorable or Bad Conduct discharge, and so such discharges are in fact felony convictions.

Last edited by watchwolf49; 09-04-2016 at 11:25 AM. Reason: As of 30 years ago.
  #23  
Old 09-04-2016, 11:42 AM
Chefguy Chefguy is offline
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Thank you, Chihuahua, your post is very close to what my understanding was back 30 years ago. I was told in no uncertain terms if I wanted out, just ask, it would be arranged. Just please don't break any rules or regulations, it wasn't necessary.

If you did break a rule, most likely you'd be offered an Article 15 discharge, either a General or Other Than Honorable. For clarity, Article 15 allows what is called "non-judicial punishment", you admit neither guilt nor innocence, you simply accept punishment without any kind of conviction or trial. That's handy since it's very quickly done and it won't follow you into the civilian world.

The alternative is a Courts Marshall, roughly the same thing as a criminal trial. If found guilty, this is a conviction and it is a felony conviction, it will follow you the rest of your life. Only a Courts Marshall can issue a Dishonorable or Bad Conduct discharge, and so such discharges are in fact felony convictions.
Martial, not marshall, unless you're talking about the Master at Arms.
  #24  
Old 09-04-2016, 12:23 PM
Leo Bloom Leo Bloom is offline
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LSLGuy, although this is entirely for your discretion, but keep us informed one day or another about that BA business.

I hope to fuck you're covered to the maximum amount consistent with what every civilian thinks is the case: that servicemen get the best possible.
  #25  
Old 09-04-2016, 12:29 PM
Ranger Jeff Ranger Jeff is offline
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I was stationed with a guy who worked his way from E-4 to E-1 over a 2 year period. It was all Captain's Masts (Article 15 aka NJP) I believe. With each bust, his attitude got worse.
  #26  
Old 09-04-2016, 12:49 PM
watchwolf49 watchwolf49 is offline
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Martial, not marshall, unless you're talking about the Master at Arms.
Spelting is overratted.
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Old 09-04-2016, 01:05 PM
WildBlueYonder WildBlueYonder is offline
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For what it's worth I'm British, so I don't know how we differ from the Americans in this aspect.

Although I'm sure this sort of thing happens every year.. there must be a procedure to deal with it?
More often than that




Quote:
Originally Posted by guitario View Post
I am assuming the penalty isn't as much as it was in the old days, but then again I have no idea about these things.. hence the curiosity. I enjoy playing devils advocate and asking questions as that's how I like to learn.
Penalties are worse now (I think) and after a dishonorable discharge



I would think it would be easier to get out if you flunked basic over and over. Ya get more basic that way but they'll want to get rid of you! LOL! Sure they'll hassle you to death!
  #28  
Old 09-04-2016, 01:06 PM
WildBlueYonder WildBlueYonder is offline
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I'm not disputing you, but I'm confused about the above.

My understanding is that VA services are only available for people with a service-connected disability. The mere fact of having served a few years and gotten out intact does NOT establish eligibility for VA health care. I've done some recent looking into this out of curiosity as I'm slowly approaching retirement and the end of my cushy company-provided medical plan. (That I pay a few hundred per month for. )

So did you have a service-connected disability, or are the eligibility criteria more complex and inclusive than my research has shown me?

Thanks for any insight. And yes, I've stepped through the VA's website's decision tree.
I'm not disabled at all. Maybe it has to do with which GI Bill you were hired under.

I see a great deal of men of all ages at the clinic. They're not all disabled, in fact I'd say at least 50% were not disabled, I get its the GI Bill you hired into.
  #29  
Old 09-04-2016, 01:09 PM
drewder drewder is offline
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So let's just imagine a scenario where someone passes their training, becomes a fully fledged member of the Marines, Army, Navy, Air force or whatever, and say, 3 months in they wake up one morning and decide they don't want to do it.

What is likely (not potentially) to happen?

So I am new in the Marines, I've been turning up on the job for 3 months (my nearest base, non deployed) and one day I just want a change in career as it's not for me.. I send them a resignation letter, and am prepared to face the consequences..

What happens next?

Are they happy to get rid and thus send me on my way with a dishonorable discharge? Does length of service dictate the severity of discipline?
Any new recruit to the military will be given a general discharge, not an honorable one, if they decide they wish to quit within 6 months of entry. I wouldn't suggest trying to quit during basic training though, they'll make sure the "paperwork" takes a lot longer than it would have taken to get out of basic.
  #30  
Old 09-04-2016, 01:10 PM
aceplace57 aceplace57 is online now
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Originally Posted by Chefguy View Post
The smart thing to do would be to talk to a JAG officer to see if you have any discharge options. The answer will likely be "no". If that's the case, you have a couple of options:

1. You can turn yourself into a fuckup. This won't guarantee that you'll be discharged, but it will guarantee that you will lose your self respect and the respect of most everybody else. You will also lose a lot of money and free time from the disciplinary actions, and spend the rest of your military time being miserable. You will get every shit assignment that comes along and will probably learn nothing. The road to an early discharge (other than medical) is not a pleasant one.

2. You can decide "Well, this was a mistake, but I'm stuck for the next few years so I'm going to make the best of it." You make yourself an asset to the organization, take on tough jobs, learn everything you can, and earn the respect of your colleagues and superiors. When your time is done you move on with a sense of accomplishment and an honorable discharge.
Excellent advice.

I understand a man in their early twenties may think a few years enlistment is an eternity. But the time will pass quickly and then a new chapter of life begins. Military service looks good on a resume too.

The alternative of living with a poor decision for decades would be much more difficult.
  #31  
Old 09-04-2016, 01:34 PM
Chihuahua Chihuahua is offline
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FWIW, I have seen a lot of privates who said they wanted out and got it, but it was always accompanied by disciplinary issues, substance abuse, failure to meet standards, and psychiatric problems. I don't think I've ever seen someone who was a motivated straight shooter just decide to quit one day.
  #32  
Old 09-04-2016, 01:42 PM
LSLGuy LSLGuy is offline
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Originally Posted by Leo Bloom View Post
LSLGuy, although this is entirely for your discretion, but keep us informed one day or another about that BA business.

I hope to fuck you're covered to the maximum amount consistent with what every civilian thinks is the case: that servicemen get the best possible.
BA?

Any civilian that thinks the VA provides "the best possible" to every former DoD member hasn't paid the slightest attention to any VA-related news for the last 30 years.

As best I can tell from my distance, it's got about 1/4th the resources it needs to do even a half-ass job compared to the total demand from disabled former service members, much less folks like me that just worked for DoD for a few years and graduated still intact.

Massive waiting for inadequate indifferent care delivered with widespread corruption and sloth is more like the impression I get. And that's in its better parts.

I admit that's second- and third-hand info since I don't use their services and AFAIK I'm not eligible to.
  #33  
Old 09-04-2016, 01:51 PM
Leo Bloom Leo Bloom is offline
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VA, but yeah, that BA you blew off wouldn't hurt either.

Yes, I know about the atrocious VA scandal-with-no-repercussions the least few years; and I know a few vets who thought they were in some god-forsaken line, and turns up they were the ones God-forsaken, because the joke was on them and their never even was a line the VA told them they were on.

The idea is what I was hoping for you, of whatever the country owes you, payable in VA currency.

The only thing good about the VA hole is it's a good example of a test run of what single-payer ("national") health insurance would look like.
  #34  
Old 09-04-2016, 02:00 PM
nightshadea nightshadea is offline
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all he has to do is wait to see what if anything there going to do to bowe bergdahl (or how ever you spell it ) I mean he just walked off because he thought he could fight the war better than the military

although I wonder who thought a lone wolf/survivalist type would fit in the military .....
  #35  
Old 09-04-2016, 02:01 PM
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In my 20 years of Navy experience, I actually had a hand in putting people out who just wanted out. They found a non-violent offense which they could commit which had administrative separation as the automatic penalty, and committed the offense. The first was back in the "Don't ask, Don't tell" days. He walked into the Command Master Chief's office and told her he was gay and wanted out of the Navy. The fact was, he actually was gay, but he was tired of hiding it. The command could have brought him up on charges of fraudulent enlistment, since he joined before 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell". All they did was move him to a job where he had no responsibility, set up an Admin Separation board, and he was out with either a General or an Other-Than-Honorable Discharge.
The second was a female Sailor who worked directly for me. She was a recently divorced single mom. We were in a Helicopter Squadron which deployed detachments to Amphibious Warfare and Supply ships. We had a short detachment coming up when she first checked into the squadron, and i had no one else to send. It was a two week detachment, and i informed that i needed her to fill out a dependent's care certificate, informing the command of who would care for her children when she was gone. At first she was amenable to it, but then she told me she could not do it, and wanted to get out. We talked to the Chain of command, and she was told that the Navy's policy was that a single parent had to fill out a certificate within a certain amount of time after checking into a deployable command. I can't remember how long the deadline was, it could have been 30 or 45 days. The day after the deadline, I wrote her up for failure to obey a lawful order. She went to Captain's Mast (Article 15), CO recommended Admin Sep, convened a board, and she was out a couple months later.
  #36  
Old 09-04-2016, 02:02 PM
Wolf333 Wolf333 is offline
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Originally Posted by watchwolf49 View Post
Thank you, Chihuahua, your post is very close to what my understanding was back 30 years ago. I was told in no uncertain terms if I wanted out, just ask, it would be arranged. Just please don't break any rules or regulations, it wasn't necessary.

If you did break a rule, most likely you'd be offered an Article 15 discharge, either a General or Other Than Honorable. For clarity, Article 15 allows what is called "non-judicial punishment", you admit neither guilt nor innocence, you simply accept punishment without any kind of conviction or trial. That's handy since it's very quickly done and it won't follow you into the civilian world.

The alternative is a Courts Marshall, roughly the same thing as a criminal trial. If found guilty, this is a conviction and it is a felony conviction, it will follow you the rest of your life. Only a Courts Marshall can issue a Dishonorable or Bad Conduct discharge, and so such discharges are in fact felony convictions.
(Bolding mine)

There is no such thing as an "Article 15 discharge". While an Article 15 may ultimately result in separation, it is due to additional considerations.
  #37  
Old 09-04-2016, 02:09 PM
Leo Bloom Leo Bloom is offline
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Wolf watching wolf.
  #38  
Old 09-04-2016, 03:26 PM
watchwolf49 watchwolf49 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolf333 View Post
There is no such thing as an "Article 15 discharge". While an Article 15 may ultimately result in separation, it is due to additional considerations.
You are correct, my apologies.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leo Bloom View Post
Wolf watching wolf.
Pack behavior ... it's a top-of-the-food-chain thing ...
  #39  
Old 09-04-2016, 03:56 PM
Bear_Nenno Bear_Nenno is offline
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Easiest ways out right now in the order of increasing difficulty and lasting effects:

1. Fail two consecutive physical fitness tests.
Roughly a month or two between tests, then a couple more to complete the discharge process. You're out in about 5 months from the time you "quit". If you were otherwise a good soldier, you will leave with an Honorable Discharge.

2. Get fat. This one can take while. Up to a year or more. But you will likely get out early with an Honorable Discharge.

3. Smoke marijuana. You'll be out in about 90 days, probably with an other than honorable. You will lose all of your benefits, but it most likely will not otherwise affect your future. Most people who have done this have actually had a job already lined up. Something like working the oil fields or construction somewhere. But I've seen about a half dozen people do this in the past 3 years.
  #40  
Old 09-04-2016, 04:46 PM
Johnny L.A. Johnny L.A. is offline
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You can get out if you're crazy.
  #41  
Old 09-04-2016, 04:46 PM
Sicks Ate Sicks Ate is offline
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There was a story going around when I was in SOI about two Marines who figured they could both get out easy if they said they were gay.

Word was they went to the First Sergeant with their claim, to which he replied "Ok, then prove it by sucking his dick."
  #42  
Old 09-04-2016, 05:50 PM
t-bonham@scc.net t-bonham@scc.net is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guitario View Post
So let's just imagine a scenario where someone passes their training,
Besides the other penalties, they may be billed for the cost of their training. and have to repay any enlistment bonus. If they don't pay up within 60 days, it will be sent to collections. So quite a financial loss, and a hit on your credit rating.

[Note that in the old Don't Ask Don't Tell days, this was applied even if you wanted to stay in and it was the military throwing you out.]
  #43  
Old 09-04-2016, 05:56 PM
Leo Bloom Leo Bloom is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny L.A. View Post
You can get out if you're crazy.
If not, write a book about it.
  #44  
Old 09-04-2016, 06:43 PM
watchwolf49 watchwolf49 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny L.A. View Post
You can get out if you're crazy.
I thought that didn't work ... you have to claim you're crazy ... which only a sane person could do ... the original Catch-22.
  #45  
Old 09-04-2016, 11:38 PM
ganthet ganthet is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bear_Nenno View Post
Easiest ways out right now in the order of increasing difficulty and lasting effects:
4. Get pregnant (and ask to get out).
Quote:
3. Smoke marijuana. You'll be out in about 90 days, probably with an other than honorable. You will lose all of your benefits, but it most likely will not otherwise affect your future. Most people who have done this have actually had a job already lined up. Something like working the oil fields or construction somewhere. But I've seen about a half dozen people do this in the past 3 years.
If you're Air Force or Army, you have a decent shot at getting a General Under Honorable Conditions discharge for this, so long as the service member had otherwise been trouble-free and competent. The Marines in partiular seem to be the service that loves to give out the OTHs for marijuana.
  #46  
Old 09-05-2016, 12:02 AM
pool pool is offline
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Actually I knew a guy who was a great soldier, knew his job backwards and forwards, was a pt stud, maybe the second fastest runner in the company, always followed orders, and showed respect to those that outranked him and then about 6 months before a deployment or so got out under conscientious objector status, the commander tried to keep him in, but didn't do a lot of paperwork he was supposed to do in a timely manner and the soldier knew all the legal regulations up and down and basically forced his hand. He was a guy that was smart and I respected him but at the same time, I did feel like he just used the benefits of service without fulfilling his duty, its not like we weren't already in a time of war and deployments when he signed up and I think he got to keep some benefits.
  #47  
Old 09-05-2016, 01:00 AM
Melbourne Melbourne is offline
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Three cases I know of (AUS)

1) Army. Resigned. Received a post-dated discharge certificate. Post-dated to his date of discharge, as determinied by hs remaining commitment. Was given no further advanced training. Was not given good jobs to "encourage him to stay". Was not given good jobs as an investment. Served his time out.

2) Navy. Submarine. Walked out. Was not paid while AWOL. Was offered his existing job back (underwater). Was not discharged while AWOL because they wanted him to come back. Administratove discharge after that

3) Army. Walked out of basic training. Admnistrative discharge 6 months later: glad to get rid of people that can't handle basic. If he'd waited until the end of basic, he could have just walked free.

For guys that had served out their initial commitment, if the service was willing to let them go, about a month to do the paperwork. If the service wasn't willing to let them go -- jail is an option, then you get returned to your unit.

Last edited by Melbourne; 09-05-2016 at 01:04 AM.
  #48  
Old 09-05-2016, 02:47 AM
Ranger Jeff Ranger Jeff is offline
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My CPO in the USCG had prior service in the Air Force, where, for some time, he was a driver. He told us once AF COS General Lemay came to his base for a meeting. He ended up driving Lemay around. Lemay told him to take him to the Stockade where he had all the men in there line up. He ordered all the men in there who wanted to stay in the Air Force to go report to their units and all those who wanted out he had discharged. Of course, I guess the Chief of Staff can do that sort of thing.
  #49  
Old 09-05-2016, 09:35 AM
King Rat King Rat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LSLGuy View Post
I'm not disputing you, but I'm confused about the above.

My understanding is that VA services are only available for people with a service-connected disability. The mere fact of having served a few years and gotten out intact does NOT establish eligibility for VA health care. I've done some recent looking into this out of curiosity as I'm slowly approaching retirement and the end of my cushy company-provided medical plan. (That I pay a few hundred per month for. )

So did you have a service-connected disability, or are the eligibility criteria more complex and inclusive than my research has shown me?

Thanks for any insight. And yes, I've stepped through the VA's website's decision tree.
The rules may have changed over the years. I applied years ago during a period when I was unemployed. There was no problem as they have a policy of not turning away destitute veterans. For example if you are homeless you can get care regardless of whether you have a service connected disability, and regardless of time in service, though I assume this would not apply if you had a bad discharge.

So if you did not have a service connected disability, you were means tested. One did not actually have to be homeless. According to your situation you may have to co-pay for services but the amount is not much. During periods of employment (most of the time) I would use my employer's health benefits.

I will spare details of my current situation, just to say not destitute but my income as it were qualifies me for care. An argument could be made that the taxpayers should not be subsidizing me in this way. But what the hell, I'll take it.
  #50  
Old 09-05-2016, 10:12 AM
King Rat King Rat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by King Rat View Post
The rules may have changed over the years. I applied years ago during a period when I was unemployed. There was no problem as they have a policy of not turning away destitute veterans. For example if you are homeless you can get care regardless of whether you have a service connected disability, and regardless of time in service, though I assume this would not apply if you had a bad discharge.

So if you did not have a service connected disability, you were means tested. One did not actually have to be homeless. According to your situation you may have to co-pay for services but the amount is not much. During periods of employment (most of the time) I would use my employer's health benefits.

I will spare details of my current situation, just to say not destitute but my income as it were qualifies me for care. An argument could be made that the taxpayers should not be subsidizing me in this way. But what the hell, I'll take it.
Just to follow up (sorry I know a bit off topic) I just went here http://www.va.gov/healthbenefits/apply/veterans.asp See minimum duty requirements (note there are exceptions to having to have completed 24 months) and note under "Enhanced Eligibility" the last one--"Previous years' household income is below VA's National Income or Geographical-Adjusted Thresholds." I don't know what these figures are but one does not have to be destitute.

And in response to a post above, I've read the horror stories but must say I've had good experiences here at the Reno Nevada VA.

Last edited by King Rat; 09-05-2016 at 10:15 AM.
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