Windows 98 vs Windows ME

[Obvious Guy]

My question is which is better? Currently I have been using Win ME for some time now, having upgraded from Win 98. However, most of the stuff I've been hearing about Win ME isnt good. Like being called more of a downgrade then an upgrade, because some things have been taken out.
For the most part everything seems to run smoothy, except for my CD-Writer not working (but thats another story). So, is it worth the hassle to reformat and go back to Windows 98??

[mblackwell]

I like 98 becuase DOS works better. You can't even do a sys a: in ME.

[JeffB]

I haven't had problems running Windows Me -- at least no new problems from Windows 98. Of course, I've never tried to format a floppy from the command line, but everything I've done in the command window has worked fine. My understanding is that Me is essentially the same as 98 with mulimedia add-ons. The debate I had when I got my new computer was Me versus 2000. At that time, I decided to go with Me and then upgrade to XP when it comes out. I wish I had gone with 2000 -- I have it at work, and it is a much nicer, more stable operating system.

[London_Calling]

Some people think 98 is more stable than ME but apart from that I'd echo everything JeffB says - ME has more developed Home PC multimedia toys but nothing that's not better done by third-party software, IMHO.

Also, I don't know what you're in to but not all software works so well on 2000.

[DVous Means]

I can only go on what I have read in the computer press, but my understanding is that it all depends on the hardware/software combination.

If you have an older box with a slower pentium or equivalent CPU, modest RAM capacity, and you are running software that was contempary to when the box was assembled, then stay away from Windows ME. I believe the minimum spec for ME is a CPU running better than 150Mhz.

That said, if you have a brand new system with up-to-the-minute software, then ME is said to be packed with useful smarts to virtually look after itself.

...horses for courses...

[handy]

I have ME on one computer equal to another doing W98. Me is much slower.

For your cdrom drive visit the manf site & download a ME driver update. I had to do a firmware update on my cd to work with ME.

[THespos]

ME also has terrible support for certain peripherals. I installed ME on my uncle's computer (bought refurbished) and then had to re-load Win98 SE on it after I found out that ME didn't support his external USB modem. When I called up some of my friends who have a lot more experience with this stuff than I do, they told me all sorts of horror stories about unsupported devices and drivers that worked on 98 SE, but not on ME.

[handy]

Some techs would see it like this:
1. W98
2. Update of W98=SE
3. Update of SE= Me

In other words, Me is just basically a second update of 98.

[mnemosyne]

We have Windows ME running on the computer that's the home network's server. It crashes almost on a daily basis. When we first moved into this house, the server was 98SE, and didn't crash nearly as much. Another housemate has recently switched back to SE since ME gave his computer all kinds of problems. Personally, I have 98 on my computer, my bf has 98SE, and both are fairly good at the moment, although we now mostly use linux.

[Balthisar]

Well, I have ME installed on my HP something-or-other, and it doesn't work very dependably. Truly, I have *never* seen the blue screen of death, but that's not a good thing, because in lieu of that, the computer just locks entirely up! The three-finger salute does NOT work, and the only means seems to be to unplug the sucker to force it off.

Both of the Macs, on the other hand, have Windows 98 installed (via VPC), and they both run FLAWLESSLY (you know, for Windows that is). Granted, VPC is a little slow, but it's stable.

This could spawn a question: both of the Win98 are virgin installs, i.e., from an original, licensed Win98 CD. It's the "pure" OS. The HP has only the crappy HP recovery CD, which installs ME with all of the stupid, free, badly-written consumer programs with their DLLs and so on. To be cheap, HP (and I'm sure other PC makers) don't ship "pure" Windows disks anymore. Thus, it may not really be ME's fault; it could be some crap installed by the manufacturer (in my case, HP's stuff AND PeoplePC's stuff). Might want to check that out.

Related note: is it illegal/unethical to procure a, uh, "bootlegged" copy of ME (full version) to do a clean install, assuming I use my own HP-supplied WinME serial number? NOTE: I'm *not* saying that's what I'm asking for; just the legality and such. I mean, I *do* have a valid license. In any case, I'm thinking of downgrading to Win98, which WOULD be unethical, since I'd have to reuse one of the Win98 serial numbers I already have.

[Golden Child]

Originally posted by mnemosyne
We have Windows ME running on the computer that's the home network's server. It crashes almost on a daily basis.

I have relativeley the same problems w/ mine....and it also likes to freeze up if it decides not to crash on me. Also the only thing different that I sas between 98 and Me was the media player and the movie maker...could be wrong on that one though but in either case you can go and download those to you 98 operating system. My advice if you haven't already......STAY W/ WINDOWS 98!!!!! It's a lot better.


"If dolphins are so smart, why did Flipper work for television?"

[DougC]

- - - Win98 has got a couple years of patching applied to it, and a couple years' worth of well-tested drivers already written for it.
- Branded OEM CD's have the same OS on them as the MS CD's, just with some extra stuff: original equipment drivers, online service links and OEM-specific tutorials. You can't not install this extra junk, but you can delete it after install is done. You can also burn a copy without the junk, but only if you are a long-hair. What OEM CD's commonly lack are some nice-but-not-necessary utilities such as TweakUI (which can often be found on the net illegally). - MC

[breaknrun]

The initial release of ME was very unstable. It crashed easily and frequently for me. The first thing I did after installing ME was to run windows update and installed all the extras like DirectX8a and Media player, the latest MSIE patches and driver updates and such. After that, install the critical updates. You want to do the critical updates last because they will want to be reinstalled after each of your other updates and you'll end up repeating steps. It doesn't cost you anything but a bit of time and a few more reboots. It will make your OS *much* more stable. ME runs better than 98SE did for me on a PIII 450 with 128MB ram.

[bniles]

We bought a Dell computer with windows ME installed on it, and it crashed constantly no matter what we did to fix it. We gave up on it and installed windows 2000 professional, I always recommend either that or just sticking to 98, ME isn't all that much better. But that's just my opinion

[handy]

2000 is for the office, it doesn't have the drivers for things that ordinary folk have at home.

2000 for the home should be coming out soon, I think that it's called Whistler.

Me is okay if you put it on a bare HD. That works for me but kinda slow even with the Restore thing off.

[Seven]

Originally posted by THespos
ME also has terrible support for certain peripherals. I installed ME on my uncle's computer (bought refurbished) and then had to re-load Win98 SE on it after I found out that ME didn't support his external USB modem. When I called up some of my friends who have a lot more experience with this stuff than I do, they told me all sorts of horror stories about unsupported devices and drivers that worked on 98 SE, but not on ME.

Being a computer repair guy.. yes. ME is really bad with some support. I've personaly removed ME from tons of systems because people "upgraded" and it messed everything up.

Our current new systems do not have ME installed. Too many problems. We use Windows 98 SE.

Obvious Guy: If you had a choice.. go with Win 98 SE. If you are considering upgrading from 98 to ME... DONT. You are asking for problems.

My take on this, and what I tell most my clients, why do you need to upgrade the OS? If win98 is working for you, leave it alone. Save the extra bucks from the ME upgrade.

[Gunslinger]

Is there any way to get Win98 on a PC that came with ME? (without completely reinstalling)

[bernse]

I don't think so.

But even if you could (kind of a reverse upgrade?) I wouldn't recomend it.

Fresh is the only way to go

[breaknrun]

Gunslinger, You should just reinstall if you want a different version of windows. Win98 will see that there is an existing version of Windows and usually doesn't allow you to overwrite unless it was an earlier version. Also, you should create a separate partition when you do the install to save your data to. That way, if you ever have to wipe out your OS and reinstall, you will not have to delete your data. Always use the windows update tool once you install the OS and get the latest drivers, service packs and critical updates installed.
I also recommend that you check for updates weekly or at least monthly.
This will help keep your system more secure as well as more stable.

[LordVor]

Originally posted by Balthisar
The three-finger salute does NOT work, and the only means seems to be to unplug the sucker to force it off.

This is somewhere around #2 on my list of "top ten things I can't believe that nobody knows about their computers".

On modern motherboards, hitting the power button is a "soft" power-off. It informs the OS that you want it to shut itself down and turn off the power. If the OS is hung, it no-sells the power off.

But, if you hold the power button in for 5-15 seconds, then it issues a "hard" power-off, and just turns off the computer.

LordVor
(others in the top three include "Name-brand computers are NOT more reliable than home-built." and "Never upgrade a Microsoft product that's working.")

[Natural-J-Bankie]

Just to clarify things, TweakUI is available from the MS website legally.

As for 2000, it works great for the home if you're willing to put a little effort in it. True, it doesn't have as many drivers, but if you buy decent hardware then you won't have problems. Do a little research. Windows XP will be coming out, and that is basically 2000 for the home user. Not much reason to go for that over 2000, unless you find it supports your hardware better. Right now it's still slower than 2000, plus it has a bit too much fluff for my tastes.

98 vs ME? I'd go for 98. It's tested and has good HW support, and is the best windows OS not based on the NT kernel. ME is probably just bells and whistles (kinda like XP actually). The one advantage 98 has over 2000 is DOS support, but since ME gets rid of that, what's the point?

[LordVor]

Originally posted by Balthisar
The three-finger salute does NOT work, and the only means seems to be to unplug the sucker to force it off.

This is somewhere around #2 on my list of "top ten things I can't believe that nobody knows about their computers".

On modern motherboards, hitting the power button is a "soft" power-off. It informs the OS that you want it to shut itself down and turn off the power. If the OS is hung, it no-sells the power off.

But, if you hold the power button in for 5-15 seconds, then it issues a "hard" power-off, and just turns off the computer.

LordVor
(others in the top three include "Name-brand computers are NOT more reliable than home-built." and "Never upgrade a Microsoft product that's working.")

[Natural-J-Bankie]

Just to clarify things, TweakUI is available from the MS website legally.

As for 2000, it works great for the home if you're willing to put a little effort in it. True, it doesn't have as many drivers, but if you buy decent hardware then you won't have problems. Do a little research. Windows XP will be coming out, and that is basically 2000 for the home user. Not much reason to go for that over 2000, unless you find it supports your hardware better. Right now it's still slower than 2000, plus it has a bit too much fluff for my tastes.

98 vs ME? I'd go for 98. It's tested and has good HW support, and is the best windows OS not based on the NT kernel. ME is probably just bells and whistles (kinda like XP actually). The one advantage 98 has over 2000 is DOS support, but since ME gets rid of that, what's the point?

[Balthisar]

Originally posted by LordVor

This is somewhere around #2 on my list of "top ten things I can't believe that nobody knows about their computers".

On modern motherboards, hitting the power button is a "soft" power-off. It informs the OS that you want it to shut itself down and turn off the power. If the OS is hung, it no-sells the power off.

But, if you hold the power button in for 5-15 seconds, then it issues a "hard" power-off, and just turns off the computer.

Doesn't seem to be true, not in the case of my HP. On the other hand, 15 seconds is a really, really long time to sit there holding a stupid button, so you could be right (I usually wait 6 to 7 seconds). But in either case, it's so much FASTER to unplug the sucker. Well, that's why I still love my Apples -- they don't try to save 95 little pennies by leaving off a reset switch. THAT'S even faster than pulling the plug!

[kinoons]

Originally posted by Balthisar

Doesn't seem to be true, not in the case of my HP. On the other hand, 15 seconds is a really, really long time to sit there holding a stupid button, so you could be right (I usually wait 6 to 7 seconds). But in either case, it's so much FASTER to unplug the sucker. Well, that's why I still love my Apples -- they don't try to save 95 little pennies by leaving off a reset switch. THAT'S even faster than pulling the plug!

Easy there cowboy --

pulling the plug on your computer is a bad thing, and can actualy cause electrical damage to the system (not common, but possible)

Hold down the power button -- it may seem like it takes forever, but hold it down and it will turn off.

As far as ME vs 98se vs 2000. Win95 has gone through many changes -- 95a, 95b, 98, 98se, and now Win ME. Each time Microsoft attempts to improve on the previous OS, because each one changes so much that it is truly a new OS. Every time those changes occur, it is necessary for software and hardware manufactors to change as well for their product to work in the new OS. One of the reasions that ME will ultimately be more stable than 95 or 98 is because the real mode DOS was removed. That is a major reasion that 2000 is so stable. As soon as you want your OS to be compatable with everything under the sun, your going to have lock ups and crashes.

With Windows ME about 80% of all lockups are caused not by the operating system itself, but by other applications running in the OS.

One thing that MS is doing to combat this -- when windows XP comes out here in the next month or so, MS is seriously considering (read: we don't know yet) allowing only hardware drivers that are microsoft certified to be installed. You have to wait for microsoft to write the drivers for your hardware, but you know its going to work.

[Balthisar]

Originally posted by kinoons
Easy there cowboy --

pulling the plug on your computer is a bad thing, and can actualy cause electrical damage to the system (not common, but possible)

Hold down the power button -- it may seem like it takes forever, but hold it down and it will turn off.

Yup, confimed it. Fifteen seconds seems to be the exact number of seconds it takes my stupid HP's power switch to work. Maybe not exact, but it's the count of 15-Mississippi.

Pulling the plug's not a bad thing, statistically thinking. For a computer that's plugged in and running all the time, it's possible that a surge'll fry the p/s or board components. Well, not enough that I'm worried about not pulling the plug, anyway.

Actually, I went to far as to rip the computer apart again, but it seems that processors aren't in DIP packages anymore , so I have no way to ground a reset line without the possibility of REALLY damaging the computer (via making the modification). Where the heck do people hook up reset switches? Or am I to be the victim of shoddy Windows AND shoddy HP hardware as long as I have this (admittedly free) computer?

[kinoons]

If you can get your hands on the specs for the motherboard you can see if the front panel connection has the space for a reset button.

[SPOOFE]

Just a quick correction...

2000 for the home should be coming out soon, I think that it's called Whistler.

"2000 for the home" already came out. It's called... (drumroll please)... Windows ME.

Whistler was the early codename for Windows XP. They've since dropped the codename.

Anyhoo...

Our family computer came with an OEM version of ME... and it's obnoxious as hell. Granted, this is because there's a lot of Compaq (my dad thought he got a good deal with it... ha!) crap that we removed ASAP, but it's a lot buggier than my friend's "pure" ME.

My Win98, on my computer, has run VERY well. The only problems I've ever had were hardware conflicts, or 3rd-party software errors (damn Liveware 3.0...).

I'd say to stick with 98, and wait until XP comes out. Unless Microsoft does some MAJOR revisioning on the XP software between now and the release, it should be an excellent operating system.

[Larry Mudd]

Generally, I like ME better than 98 because it crashes
MUCH, MUCH, less often, and when it does, it doesn't insult you with "To avoid seeing this again, shut down properly." which used to infuriate me.

I agree with Mr. Blackwell, not being able to make a boot disk with FORMAT A: /sys is ridiculous. I suspect that people who feel comforted by the familiarity of a DOS command line are a shrinking demographic, though.

My main worry with ME is that it seems to have some multitasking issues-- I have an older version of Forte Agent, which seems to hijack 100% of system resources while updating newsgroups-- MP3's skip horribly, can't move the mouse pointer, nothing. Similar problems with using DOS-based utilities (like PKWARE, LPARSER, FRACTINT, DTA, etc, which have been beloved tools for me since the eighties,) in a window. I guess I could use 32bit apps to get around this, but I really like my old standbys...

It's progress, but some the backwards-compatibility suffers.

[kinoons]

Originally posted by SPOOFE
Just a quick correction...

"2000 for the home" already came out. It's called... (drumroll please)... Windows ME.

Whistler was the early codename for Windows XP. They've since dropped the codename.

Anyhoo...

Our family computer came with an OEM version of ME... and it's obnoxious as hell. Granted, this is because there's a lot of Compaq (my dad thought he got a good deal with it... ha!) crap that we removed ASAP, but it's a lot buggier than my friend's "pure" ME.

My Win98, on my computer, has run VERY well. The only problems I've ever had were hardware conflicts, or 3rd-party software errors (damn Liveware 3.0...).

I'd say to stick with 98, and wait until XP comes out. Unless Microsoft does some MAJOR revisioning on the XP software between now and the release, it should be an excellent operating system.

Windows ME is not windows 2000 for the home. Windows ME is written on the win95 kernel, windows 2000 is written on the windows NT kernel. The home version of windows 2000 really is going to be windows XP -- currently there are 3 versions of XP being planned -- standard (the home edition for most users), professional (busisness type OS), and server (nuff said).

As far as OEM versions of an OS -- yeah the inital load sucks. I can only speak for one company (the cow spotted type) but on the operating system backup CD's the windows cabs are there, and if you know how, you can perform a clean install of windows w/o all that OEM @%#! -- I can e-mail anyone who would like instructions on how to do so

[Lute Skywatcher]

Originally posted by Larry Mudd
My main worry with ME is that it seems to have some multitasking issues-- I have an older version of Forte Agent, which seems to hijack 100% of system resources while updating newsgroups-- MP3's skip horribly, can't move the mouse pointer, nothing. Similar problems with using DOS-based utilities (like PKWARE, LPARSER, FRACTINT, DTA, etc, which have been beloved tools for me since the eighties,) in a window. I guess I could use 32bit apps to get around this, but I really like my old standbys...

I prefer WinZip over PKZip/PKUnzip, all functions are available without having to use the command line. I also have both the Windows and DOS versions of Fractint. The Win version is quicker but DOS has a better menu structure.

[Balthisar]

Originally posted by Larry Mudd
I agree with Mr. Blackwell, not being able to make a boot disk with FORMAT A: /sys is ridiculous. I suspect that people who feel comforted by the familiarity of a DOS command line are a shrinking demographic, though.

Ach! I hope that doesn't mean we're dying out!

[kinoons]

I am perfectly happy with DOS -- I'm a DOS child -- but you can make a boot disk in windows, you just have to do it through add/remove programs.