#1  
Old 10-04-2013, 05:41 PM
Bosda Di'Chi of Tricor Bosda Di'Chi of Tricor is offline
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Trinitite?

I realize that removing additional Trinitite from a nuclear test zone is illegal.
But the stuff that was removed pre-ban is legal.
I cite
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trinitite
Quote:
In the late 1940s and early 1950s, samples were gathered and sold to mineral collectors as a novelty. Traces of the material may be found at the Trinity Site today, although most of it was bulldozed and buried by the United States Atomic Energy Commission in 1953.[5] It is now illegal to take the remaining material from the site; however, material that was taken prior to this prohibition is still in the hands of collectors.
How can I legally obtain legitimate Trinitite?
Ideally, I'd like to find some from the 45 explosion.
The Trinity blast.
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  #2  
Old 10-04-2013, 05:52 PM
aNewLeaf aNewLeaf is offline
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All your radioactive dreams are just a click away: http://unitednuclear.com/
  #3  
Old 10-04-2013, 06:27 PM
Trinopus Trinopus is offline
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aNewLeaf: thank you! I've sent away for the cheap $19.00 vial of fragments. Cool!
  #4  
Old 10-04-2013, 07:06 PM
Amateur Barbarian Amateur Barbarian is offline
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I bought about 10 large chunks (each around 3/4 inch to 2 inches or so) of red trinitite a few years ago. Put one in a shadow box for a relative (who did not appreciate it, sigh) and put the others in a larger, multi-chambered shadow box for me. Being red trinitite, they contain copper from the control wiring or (more likely) outer shell of the gadget.

So I tell people with pleasure that I have part of the world's first atom bomb on my wall.

ETA: Was going to list the source I used, but it no longer lists trinitite - but then, I bought about 90% of their stock.

Last edited by Amateur Barbarian; 10-04-2013 at 07:09 PM.
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Old 10-04-2013, 07:23 PM
Amateur Barbarian Amateur Barbarian is offline
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Here's a kind of crappy snapshot I just took of the t-box.

Last edited by Amateur Barbarian; 10-04-2013 at 07:24 PM.
  #6  
Old 10-04-2013, 09:32 PM
Chronos Chronos is offline
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I didn't realize it came in multiple colors. What color is the kind that turns you into a superpowered plant?
  #7  
Old 10-04-2013, 09:42 PM
running coach running coach is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bosda Di'Chi of Tricor View Post
I realize that removing additional Trinitite from a nuclear test zone is illegal.
But the stuff that was removed pre-ban is legal.
I cite
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trinitite


How can I legally obtain legitimate Trinitite?
Ideally, I'd like to find some from the 45 explosion.
The Trinity blast.
I didn't realize it had vintage years.

"Id like the Bomb Perignon '45, please."
  #8  
Old 10-05-2013, 08:18 AM
Bumbershoot Bumbershoot is offline
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Here is another site that sells trinitite. The wiki article linked in the OP describes red and black trinitite (very rare); green is most common. The article also says that "Occasionally, the name trinitite is broadly applied to all glassy residues of nuclear bomb testing, not just the Trinity test."

Coincidentally, I was going to visit the Trinity site today! I live in New Mexico but I've never been there. Unfortunately they recently reduced the semiannual open house schedule (the first Saturday in April & October) to once a year (the April date). Link. They say it is "Due to current fiscal constraints within the Department of Defense" (and this was before the government shutdown).

I did purchase a piece of trinitite at a rock shop in southern New Mexico a while back- even had it tested with a Geiger counter and it is slightly radioactive!

Last edited by Bumbershoot; 10-05-2013 at 08:20 AM.
  #9  
Old 10-05-2013, 08:48 AM
aNewLeaf aNewLeaf is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amateur Barbarian View Post
Here's a kind of crappy snapshot I just took of the t-box.
You built that for home display? Or for a museum or something? It's fantastic, if a but gruesome.
  #10  
Old 10-05-2013, 09:36 AM
Amateur Barbarian Amateur Barbarian is offline
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Originally Posted by aNewLeaf View Post
You built that for home display? Or for a museum or something? It's fantastic, if a but gruesome.
I built it. The one I built for a family member was smaller and had one very nice piece in the center. (Which she totally failed to appreciate, but that's another story.)

I was extremely pleased to have found such a nice collection of red trinitite and thought it deserved a proper showcase.

ETA: the photos are, in clockwise order from top left: (1) the only color photo of the Trinity shot that survives; (2) an aerial photo from the next morning; (3) the gadget just before the crew descended from the tower; (4) Oppenheimer, Groves and other notables examining what's left of one of the tower's anchor blocks three or four days after the shot. Seemed like appropriate "framing" for the pieces.

BTW, I don't believe there are "different vintages" of the mineral: unless I've been misinformed, this characteristic green glass formed ONLY at Trinity. There are fakes and substitutions, but a few simple tests (precise level of radioactivity and chemical composition) can distinguish the real thing, which comes only from that one site.

Last edited by Amateur Barbarian; 10-05-2013 at 09:41 AM.
  #11  
Old 10-05-2013, 10:34 AM
pravnik pravnik is offline
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Originally Posted by Chronos View Post
I didn't realize it came in multiple colors. What color is the kind that turns you into a superpowered plant?
Red Trinitite, but only Pre-Crisis.
  #12  
Old 10-23-2016, 12:53 PM
hologuy hologuy is offline
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Trinitite '45 vintage...what to do with a small stash?

To add to this thread, does anyone know of the best conduit to sell or donate to a non-profit organization Trinitite ('45 vintage)? I was going to sell some that I have on eBay but they prohibit it because it is mildly radioactive. eBay prohibits: “Atomic or nuclear blast items (such as hot rocks, items from a blast or testing zone, and Trinitite” In my basement cleanup mission (toss stuff, donate stuff, sell stuff) I went through a box from my childhood containing a few dozen pieces the size of a quarter. As a retired engineer i'm looking for the most efficient way to share (sell or donate) to someone or some organization that would bring joy and make relevant that moment of history July 16th, 1945 when the Atomic Age began.
  #13  
Old 10-23-2016, 01:08 PM
beowulff beowulff is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hologuy View Post
To add to this thread, does anyone know of the best conduit to sell or donate to a non-profit organization Trinitite ('45 vintage)? I was going to sell some that I have on eBay but they prohibit it because it is mildly radioactive. eBay prohibits: “Atomic or nuclear blast items (such as hot rocks, items from a blast or testing zone, and Trinitite” In my basement cleanup mission (toss stuff, donate stuff, sell stuff) I went through a box from my childhood containing a few dozen pieces the size of a quarter. As a retired engineer i'm looking for the most efficient way to share (sell or donate) to someone or some organization that would bring joy and make relevant that moment of history July 16th, 1945 when the Atomic Age began.
Well, I would LOVE a piece...
  #14  
Old 10-23-2016, 05:01 PM
Chronos Chronos is offline
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I expect that any museum with any interest in the stuff already has some. But if you buy a membership, you can sell it right here on our Marketplace forum, and I'm sure you'll find eager buyers.
  #15  
Old 10-23-2016, 08:31 PM
LSLGuy LSLGuy is online now
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I have PMed Amateur Barbarian who seemed to be the most enthusiastic Trinitite collector we have.
  #16  
Old 10-23-2016, 08:57 PM
Amateur Barbarian Amateur Barbarian is offline
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Thanks for the heads-up. I have the pieces I have and am not looking for any more, unless they're exceptional red or black chunks. I didn't realize eBay specifically banned it - it's less radioactive than some scientific toys and basic nuclear chemistry radiation sources, AFAIK.

So, hologuy, if you want to send me some photos or details on the pieces you have, I might be able to help you find a buyer for it.

ETA: Actually, I think Bosda was looking to buy some. Maybe we can make a package deal.

Last edited by Amateur Barbarian; 10-23-2016 at 08:59 PM.
  #17  
Old 10-24-2016, 06:12 AM
ASGuy ASGuy is offline
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I'm going to chime in here. I visited the Trinity side in April of 2014. Foolish me, expecting a handful of attendees. There were hundreds of visitors. My partner and I had to wait in line more than an hour just to get to the clearance gate. After that it was quick.

There is a prominent sign at the compound entrance instructing visitors not to remove Trinitite from the site.

At ground zero we took the obligatory photo standing at the marker and proceeded to look for Trinitite. We never found any but a group of three women we ran into showed us their findings. Trinitite really does look like green obsidian. The gals told us they weren't going to take it out...yeah.

It was a long drive and wait but I thought it was worth it. My partner did not.

After our visit we made a big detour and visited the Very Large Array. Now that was bitchen! (And it's free if you go on Trinity Day.)

BTW: It is my understanding that only the material created at the Trinity site in 1945 is Trinitite. Other stuff is, well, other stuff.

Last edited by ASGuy; 10-24-2016 at 06:13 AM.
  #18  
Old 10-24-2016, 01:19 PM
Damuri Ajashi Damuri Ajashi is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amateur Barbarian View Post
Thanks for the heads-up. I have the pieces I have and am not looking for any more, unless they're exceptional red or black chunks. I didn't realize eBay specifically banned it - it's less radioactive than some scientific toys and basic nuclear chemistry radiation sources, AFAIK.

So, hologuy, if you want to send me some photos or details on the pieces you have, I might be able to help you find a buyer for it.

ETA: Actually, I think Bosda was looking to buy some. Maybe we can make a package deal.
Hey if you guys agree on a price, I will buy a few peices. (Is the level of radioactivity dangerous over prolonged periods or is it closer to my glow in the dark micronaut action figures?) They seem like they would make neat presents or be neat to bring to my scout meeting but not if they require special handling.

Last edited by Damuri Ajashi; 10-24-2016 at 01:22 PM.
  #19  
Old 10-24-2016, 01:23 PM
Amateur Barbarian Amateur Barbarian is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Damuri Ajashi View Post
(Is the level of radioactivity dangerous over prolonged periods or is it closer to my glow in the dark micronaut action figures?) They seem like they would make neat presents but not if they require special handling.
They should be kept in a sealed container and not handled, and special care should be taken not to let any dust or particles get away (use wet-wipes or the like for any necessary cleanup).

But even a modest sheet of acrylic or glass stops the low-level alpha emissions.
  #20  
Old 10-24-2016, 02:04 PM
Damuri Ajashi Damuri Ajashi is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amateur Barbarian View Post
They should be kept in a sealed container and not handled, and special care should be taken not to let any dust or particles get away (use wet-wipes or the like for any necessary cleanup).

But even a modest sheet of acrylic or glass stops the low-level alpha emissions.
So as long as they are kept in a sealed glass container, it should be OK? Thanks!
  #21  
Old 10-24-2016, 02:59 PM
Chronos Chronos is offline
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Yeah, it'll mostly be alpha sources, which are nearly harmless unless they get inside of you somehow. Then, alpha sources are the worst form of radiation.
  #22  
Old 10-24-2016, 03:22 PM
Atomic Alex Atomic Alex is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amateur Barbarian View Post
I bought about 10 large chunks (each around 3/4 inch to 2 inches or so) of red trinitite a few years ago. Put one in a shadow box for a relative (who did not appreciate it, sigh) and put the others in a larger, multi-chambered shadow box for me. Being red trinitite, they contain copper from the control wiring or (more likely) outer shell of the gadget.

So I tell people with pleasure that I have part of the world's first atom bomb on my wall.
That is very cool indeed
  #23  
Old 10-24-2016, 04:12 PM
Bosda Di'Chi of Tricor Bosda Di'Chi of Tricor is offline
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No can do.
I just dropped $1k on car repairs, & I'm gonna replace the Little Red Jellybean next year.
So, economize.
  #24  
Old 10-24-2016, 08:21 PM
Melbourne Melbourne is offline
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Yeah, it'll mostly be alpha sources, which are nearly harmless unless they get inside of you somehow. Then, alpha sources are the worst form of radiation.
In my first week at university, at my first physics lab, at the first hour of the school day, we turned up and found the door open. We wandered in and settled at the benches. There was a small metal object on the otherwise empty bench: I picked it up and looked inside. I didn't see anything.

Soon after, a lab demonstrator came in, introduced himself, and handed out lab excercise documentation. Which contained radiation safety instruction and told me that the small metel object contained an Alpha Radiation source which was basically pretty harmless except to the eyes, because the radiation was blocked by the skin.

Still stands as an example of radiation safety incompetance.
  #25  
Old 10-25-2016, 04:48 AM
pullin pullin is offline
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I visited the Trinity Site a few weeks ago. There were several groups selling Trinitite along the road as we drove up. I assume those are legal, as neither the Army nor other officials were challenging their business.

I was surprised how easy it was to find Trinitite around the site.
  #26  
Old 10-25-2016, 08:04 AM
LSLGuy LSLGuy is online now
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Interesting. I've never been but want to go.

I'd have assumed it had mostly been scavenged up years ago by souvenir hunting visitors & locals intending to sell it to souvenir hunting visitors. And that the authorities would've prohibited scavenging only after 99% was gone.
  #27  
Old 10-25-2016, 09:03 AM
Amateur Barbarian Amateur Barbarian is offline
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Interesting. I've never been but want to go.
I believe the location was classified for a number of years, maybe into the 1960s, and that visits onto the actual site are restricted to a few times a year. Not completely sure how true/still true that might be. But yeah, it would be a definite stop if I am ever in that area.

Quote:
I'd have assumed it had mostly been scavenged up years ago by souvenir hunting visitors & locals intending to sell it to souvenir hunting visitors. And that the authorities would've prohibited scavenging only after 99% was gone.
The remaining glass and trinitite was bulldozed away and buried in the late 1950s, and it was made illegal to take any more from the site. That's why it's rare and why fakes are not unknown.
  #28  
Old 10-25-2016, 02:00 PM
Atomic Alex Atomic Alex is offline
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Originally Posted by Melbourne View Post
In my first week at university, at my first physics lab, at the first hour of the school day, we turned up and found the door open. We wandered in and settled at the benches. There was a small metal object on the otherwise empty bench: I picked it up and looked inside. I didn't see anything.

Soon after, a lab demonstrator came in, introduced himself, and handed out lab excercise documentation. Which contained radiation safety instruction and told me that the small metel object contained an Alpha Radiation source which was basically pretty harmless except to the eyes, because the radiation was blocked by the skin.

Still stands as an example of radiation safety incompetance.
Oh wow, yes what could possibly have gone wrong...

That reminds me of the story told by one of the people on site of the Chernobyl accident in the book 'Ablaze' by Piers Paul Reid, I can't recall if he was a worker or a fireman but he told how he and his colleague got right next to the exposed core. His colleague looked over the lip and directly into it, asked what he could see he could only say that it was beautiful. The first person went to take a look but his colleague wouldn't let him, pushing him back and away from the edge, naturally he was pretty angry and annoyed at this.

However the second man had received a massive and fatal dose of radiation from the short time he spent looking at the core, by refusing to let him do the same he had literally saved his life.

For some reason that story has always stuck with me.
  #29  
Old 10-25-2016, 02:31 PM
Amateur Barbarian Amateur Barbarian is offline
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A fictional aside, but Greg Benford's novel Artifact deals with a singularity trapped in stone and found by some ancient peoples (not Egyptian... maybe Akkadian?) The stone has an amber horn on it so the king can look into the blazing heart of things and be entertained.

When found, the king's skeleton has massive bone rot around the eye sockets from radiation exposure and cancer...
  #30  
Old 10-25-2016, 03:19 PM
LSLGuy LSLGuy is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pullin View Post
I visited the Trinity Site a few weeks ago. There were several groups selling Trinitite along the road as we drove up. I assume those are legal, as neither the Army nor other officials were challenging their business.

I was surprised how easy it was to find Trinitite around the site.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amateur Barbarian View Post
...
The remaining glass and trinitite was bulldozed away and buried in the late 1950s, and it was made illegal to take any more from the site. That's why it's rare and why fakes are not unknown.
I have no opinion, but clearly there's a mismatch here.
  #31  
Old 10-28-2016, 05:52 PM
pullin pullin is offline
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Sorry LSLGuy, just now revisited the thread.

It's true that they do not allow Trinitite to be removed (I did not take any). According to the guides it's OK to pick it up and photograph it, just put back where you found it.

There were lots of small green Trinitite samples (crystals?) around the site, particularly near the fences. It only took a few minutes to find them, but I had to get down on my knees and paw through the grass. This was probably distasteful to many due to the substantial population of really large ants. They were everywhere.

Also, (to Amateur Barbarian) they only open the site twice a year.
  #32  
Old 10-28-2016, 07:20 PM
Atamasama Atamasama is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Melbourne View Post
In my first week at university, at my first physics lab, at the first hour of the school day, we turned up and found the door open. We wandered in and settled at the benches. There was a small metal object on the otherwise empty bench: I picked it up and looked inside. I didn't see anything.

Soon after, a lab demonstrator came in, introduced himself, and handed out lab excercise documentation. Which contained radiation safety instruction and told me that the small metel object contained an Alpha Radiation source which was basically pretty harmless except to the eyes, because the radiation was blocked by the skin.

Still stands as an example of radiation safety incompetance.
Students, to your feet.

Everyone, look to your left.

Now look to your right.

By the end of this class, one of those people will have died of radiation poisoning.
  #33  
Old 10-29-2016, 09:38 AM
Isilder Isilder is offline
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However the second man had received a massive and fatal dose of radiation from the short time he spent looking at the core, by refusing to let him do the same he had literally saved his life.
No, false. No blue flash from the corium. The people who got near the corium first did receive eye injuries from short exposures, eg 30 seconds. It was actually difficult to remain near the corium without feeling sick, those who only just started to feel sick survived, some of those got cancer or leukemia /bone marrow disorder, though and die from that... and a few workers ignored the feelings of burning and sickness until they collapsed - if you collapse then you were certainly dying.

The one who was exposed to the blue flash died. But he was in the collapsed category anyway.

Last edited by Isilder; 10-29-2016 at 09:39 AM.
  #34  
Old 10-29-2016, 02:29 PM
Atomic Alex Atomic Alex is offline
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No, false. No blue flash from the corium. The people who got near the corium first did receive eye injuries from short exposures, eg 30 seconds. It was actually difficult to remain near the corium without feeling sick, those who only just started to feel sick survived, some of those got cancer or leukemia /bone marrow disorder, though and die from that... and a few workers ignored the feelings of burning and sickness until they collapsed - if you collapse then you were certainly dying.

The one who was exposed to the blue flash died. But he was in the collapsed category anyway.
Its been a very long time since I read the book so I may be mis-remembering the details, but I'm certain there was a passage like that, where one person prevented the other looking in and saved his life. If I can find it again I'll check to see.
  #35  
Old 10-31-2016, 10:47 PM
Terry Kennedy Terry Kennedy is offline
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It's true that they do not allow Trinitite to be removed (I did not take any). According to the guides it's OK to pick it up and photograph it, just put back where you found it.
This year there was a table with an awning just outside the inner fence, where there were various radioactive items on display, along with counters. You could bring a piece of possible Trinitite that you found to them and they'd check it for you. If it was Trinitite, it got put into a plastic bag with other pieces and they kept it.
Quote:
There were lots of small green Trinitite samples (crystals?) around the site, particularly near the fences. It only took a few minutes to find them, but I had to get down on my knees and paw through the grass. This was probably distasteful to many due to the substantial population of really large ants. They were everywhere.
I found many small (1/4" to 3/8") pieces on the ground overy by the no-longer-useful protective covering of the remaining non-bulldozed area. (The Trinitite under there would no longer be visible even if they opened the viewing panels, due to dust and other debris collected over the years).
Quote:
Also, (to Amateur Barbarian) they only open the site twice a year.
The outside Trinitite vendors are out in force on those open house days. They're on both sides of the road at the Stallion Gate as well as others for several miles up and down 380. I obtained a pair of nice specimens from a vendor this year - one with copper inclusions and another that was very light green with a frothy whiteish surface. Both were probably from very close to the detonation. Due to the cost of testing, the vendor only had a gamma spectroscopy report per (largish) box of specimens, not per-specimen tests, so I can't confirm that.
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