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Old 12-19-2016, 12:09 PM
Archinist Archinist is offline
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How heavy is 35 kilograms?

I am thinking about a mini-ITX PC build that would weigh 35 kilograms. What would be the best way to carry it around? Would wheels work, or would a reinforced handle be better?

Since the case is reasonably large, larger than a loaf of bread, but smaller than a kitchen cupboard, how well would the weight be spread about?

Would it be feasible to carry this computer around the world, like a very heavy laptop, though I doubt it would be legal to take it on airplanes at all. But just for walking around, would it be feasible or would it be awkward and too heavy?

I am thinking that since it might look odd to carry around a computer case around, would it be good to cannibalize a cheap plastic suitcase and nail/glue/solder the plastic, metal and fabric bits on the outside of the case, so it looks like a normal suitcase and not a PC case?
  #2  
Old 12-19-2016, 12:10 PM
Johnny L.A. Johnny L.A. is offline
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35 kg is 77 pounds. I'd use wheels. You can probably find a Pelican case for the job.


ETA: Link. Click on Protector Case, find the one that suits your needs.




.

Last edited by Johnny L.A.; 12-19-2016 at 12:13 PM.
  #3  
Old 12-19-2016, 12:19 PM
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That's too heavy to lug around. If you want to get a sample, your local hardware store will have 36 kg (80 lb) bags of concrete mix that you could lift to see.
  #4  
Old 12-19-2016, 12:24 PM
SigMan SigMan is offline
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A mini ITX PC that weighs 77 pounds?

Something's not right.
  #5  
Old 12-19-2016, 12:25 PM
PoppaSan PoppaSan is offline
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Other references would be about 5-6 bowling balls, a 10 year old, an older large portable CRT TV, 2-3 loads of wet laundry not rung out in a basket, 9 gallons of water.
  #6  
Old 12-19-2016, 12:25 PM
Machine Elf Machine Elf is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archinist View Post
Would it be feasible to carry this computer around the world, like a very heavy laptop, though I doubt it would be legal to take it on airplanes at all. But just for walking around, would it be feasible or would it be awkward and too heavy?
77 pounds is pretty damn heavy. You'll be able to move it between your home office and your car trunk if you lift with your legs, but you're not going to traipse around town with it like it's just an oversized laptop.

Airline carry-on weight limit is generally 40 pounds, and for checked bags it's generally 50 pounds. So imagine the heaviest suitcase you've ever checked for a flight, and now understand that your kaiju computer will be at least 50% heavier. A large rolling suitcase will handle the weight OK, but if you're flying anywhere, the air carrier will charge you extra for your heavy luggage.

If you're looking to get an idea of what 77 pounds feels like, get a large suitcase and fill it up with heavy things (bricks, books, cans of beer, etc.) until it weighs 77 pounds. If you don't have a bathroom scale available, get a large trash can and fill it up with 9 gallons of water (8.3 pounds per gallon), and try lifting it (conversion: 1 cubic foot is 7.5 gallons).

On preview, Pasta has the answer. Go to Home Depot/Lowe's or a hardware store and look for a bag of cement.
  #7  
Old 12-19-2016, 12:27 PM
beowulff beowulff is offline
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There’s no way that a mini-ITX computer weighs that much unless the case is made out of Osmium.
  #8  
Old 12-19-2016, 12:31 PM
Pasta Pasta is offline
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Originally Posted by beowulff View Post
Osmium.
It's all the rage!

(I was also skeptical of the weight, but I don't know what "min-ITX" means, so I gave the benefit of the doubt that it was maybe a case 90% full of battery packs or something.)
  #9  
Old 12-19-2016, 12:35 PM
enalzi enalzi is offline
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Most mini-ITX cases are around a cubic foot or less. By comparison, a cubic foot of water is about 62 pounds.

Last edited by enalzi; 12-19-2016 at 12:35 PM.
  #10  
Old 12-19-2016, 12:46 PM
Mangetout Mangetout is offline
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A mini ITX PC that weighs 77 pounds?

Something's not right.
Agreed. There's a decimal point astray here somewhere, methinks.
  #11  
Old 12-19-2016, 12:59 PM
Archinist Archinist is offline
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Originally Posted by Machine Elf View Post
77 pounds is pretty damn heavy. You'll be able to move it between your home office and your car trunk if you lift with your legs, but you're not going to traipse around town with it like it's just an oversized laptop.

Airline carry-on weight limit is generally 40 pounds, and for checked bags it's generally 50 pounds. So imagine the heaviest suitcase you've ever checked for a flight, and now understand that your kaiju computer will be at least 50% heavier. A large rolling suitcase will handle the weight OK, but if you're flying anywhere, the air carrier will charge you extra for your heavy luggage.

If you're looking to get an idea of what 77 pounds feels like, get a large suitcase and fill it up with heavy things (bricks, books, cans of beer, etc.) until it weighs 77 pounds. If you don't have a bathroom scale available, get a large trash can and fill it up with 9 gallons of water (8.3 pounds per gallon), and try lifting it (conversion: 1 cubic foot is 7.5 gallons).

On preview, Pasta has the answer. Go to Home Depot/Lowe's or a hardware store and look for a bag of cement.
Mhm, I wasn't really actually planning on taking the PC onto an airplane or anything.

What sort of wheels and wheel hinges would be best to be used? Is there such thing as a wheel/hinge chart for burdens of varying weight? I wouldn't like to spend days putting wheels on the thing only for the plastic wheels to turn into powder the second they touched down.


Quote:
Originally Posted by enalzi View Post
Most mini-ITX cases are around a cubic foot or less. By comparison, a cubic foot of water is about 62 pounds.
Okay, so 28 kilograms then? That's only a little bit heavier..

Quote:
Originally Posted by SigMan View Post
A mini ITX PC that weighs 77 pounds?

Something's not right.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mangetout View Post
Agreed. There's a decimal point astray here somewhere, methinks.
No, no. It's definitely 35 kg, it's just that I thought about adding some other stuff inside as well to increase portability.

Last edited by Archinist; 12-19-2016 at 01:00 PM.
  #12  
Old 12-19-2016, 01:03 PM
running coach running coach is offline
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No, no. It's definitely 35 kg, it's just that I thought about adding some other stuff inside as well to increase portability.
To increase portability, you put stuff on the outside. Like handles, wheels, anti-gravity units.
  #13  
Old 12-19-2016, 01:10 PM
lazybratsche lazybratsche is offline
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No, no. It's definitely 35 kg, it's just that I thought about adding some other stuff inside as well to increase portability.
Really? How?

*grabs bathroom scale*

My desktop PC with a cheap and heavy full ATX case is only ~13 kg.

Is your computer filled with massive slabs of copper heat sinks? Or a water cooling system? Or, hell, sealed and filled with fluorocarbons?
  #14  
Old 12-19-2016, 01:19 PM
Pork Rind Pork Rind is offline
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The heaviest mini-ITX cases I could find on Amazon were in the 7kg range with most being more like 3kg. Looking at the volume and the internal arrangements, I don't know what you could jam in there (that actually has computing value, i.e. not gold bullion) to get it anywhere near the weight you propose.
  #15  
Old 12-19-2016, 01:19 PM
enalzi enalzi is offline
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Okay, so 28 kilograms then? That's only a little bit heavier..
Yeah, water is heavy. Your PC should not weigh more than an equivalent case filled with water. Unless you're taking liquid cooling to a-whole-nother level...
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Old 12-19-2016, 01:23 PM
enalzi enalzi is offline
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To increase portability, you put stuff on the outside. Like handles, wheels, anti-gravity units.
Just a few balloons.
  #17  
Old 12-19-2016, 01:41 PM
Archinist Archinist is offline
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Originally Posted by lazybratsche View Post
Really? How?

*grabs bathroom scale*

My desktop PC with a cheap and heavy full ATX case is only ~13 kg.

Is your computer filled with massive slabs of copper heat sinks? Or a water cooling system? Or, hell, sealed and filled with fluorocarbons?
Well, adding a water cooling radiator for most of the components is probably reasonably heavy, plus the insulation, ventilation, fans, tubs of water/coolant, isn't coolant really dense or something?

Plus the case would be reasonably heavy and probably larger than most mITX cases, power supply, alternative power supplies/y it should come to around 35 kilograms.

Okay, so now that I know how heavy it is, what sort of wheels or transporters would be needed?

Also, does anyone know of a good build/setup to ensure no more than 400 watts are used at the maximum, while having at least decent performance? Is it possible to use power from the rolling wheels or a gyroscope to provide power for the cooling fans?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pork Rind View Post
The heaviest mini-ITX cases I could find on Amazon were in the 7kg range with most being more like 3kg. Looking at the volume and the internal arrangements, I don't know what you could jam in there (that actually has computing value, i.e. not gold bullion) to get it anywhere near the weight you propose.
Well, I would assume that the actual components for computing would weigh around 10 kilograms, and the case and accessories would be around 25 kilograms. Of course it might be less than that, maybe around 30 kilograms?

Really, the most important thing is that it not much more than 400 watts to be feasible, otherwise it's just a waste of time. I know that high-performance laptops use around 300 watts, so surely you could build a decent desktop for maybe 450 watts and then undervolt it or throttle it down to around 400-ish watts?
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Old 12-19-2016, 01:46 PM
Grey Grey is offline
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Why do I have this image of a 70s IBM executive showing off a portable computer?
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Old 12-19-2016, 02:16 PM
Darren Garrison Darren Garrison is offline
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"Stuffing extra stuff in the system" and "staying below 400 watts" seem to be in contradiction. As does using water cooling, which is used for high-powered, hot systems.
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Old 12-19-2016, 02:19 PM
Chronos Chronos is offline
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Well, I would assume that the actual components for computing would weigh around 10 kilograms, and the case and accessories would be around 25 kilograms.
You would assume? Do you mean that you don't actually have figures for any of that? Where did this 35 kg number come from?

And what are you planning on using this machine for, whatever its weight? Any reasonable answer to your question must be built upon assumptions for that. If it's going to sit in the back of a van, that's a lot easier than if you need to carry it to the top of Everest.
  #21  
Old 12-19-2016, 02:22 PM
watchwolf49 watchwolf49 is offline
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Buy a cheap-o dolly ... that's what my mother did for her purse ...

Last edited by watchwolf49; 12-19-2016 at 02:23 PM.
  #22  
Old 12-19-2016, 02:47 PM
Mangetout Mangetout is offline
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What's the objective of this project and exactly what 'extra stuff' are you talking about? Is the alternative power supply a diesel generator or something?
  #23  
Old 12-19-2016, 02:52 PM
Darren Garrison Darren Garrison is offline
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OP: are you really familiar with what makes a mini-ITX distinctive, or is it just something someone is suggesting to you? Because you might be better off with MicroATX, and I suspect that all you need is a "small form factor" PC, like some of these.

(Most mini-ITX and MicroATX links I'm getting are build-your own systems, and frankly, asking " Is it possible to use power from the rolling wheels or a gyroscope to provide power for the cooling fans?" means that you probably aren't in the "roll your own" market niche.)
  #24  
Old 12-19-2016, 03:22 PM
Machine Elf Machine Elf is offline
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Well, I would assume that the actual components for computing would weigh around 10 kilograms, and the case and accessories would be around 25 kilograms. Of course it might be less than that, maybe around 30 kilograms?
Have you done any research at all? With a quick Google search I already found a 450-watt mini-ITX case, with power supply, that weighs in at just 4.5 kilograms.

Absent any objective information to the contrary, your assumption of 10 kilograms for the electronics - motherboard, memory, hard drive, video card, etc. - seems outlandish; a heavy mobo weighs in at 2.5 kilograms, maybe add another couple kilos for a video card, hard drive and BD drive. I can't imagine a suitable liquid-cooling system adding 20+ kilos to this.

Go spec out some hardware for the system you want, pin down the weights; I'll be shocked if you come up with anything close to 35 kilos without bolting slabs of lead to the case.
  #25  
Old 12-19-2016, 03:27 PM
AncientHumanoid AncientHumanoid is offline
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Build it into a go-cart frame. Plus, the 2 stroke engine could power your computer!

I'm surprised you didn't think of this.
  #26  
Old 12-19-2016, 03:31 PM
astro astro is offline
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Well, adding a water cooling radiator for most of the components is probably reasonably heavy, plus the insulation, ventilation, fans, tubs of water/coolant, isn't coolant really dense or something?

Plus the case would be reasonably heavy and probably larger than most mITX cases, power supply, alternative power supplies/y it should come to around 35 kilograms.

Okay, so now that I know how heavy it is, what sort of wheels or transporters would be needed?

Also, does anyone know of a good build/setup to ensure no more than 400 watts are used at the maximum, while having at least decent performance? Is it possible to use power from the rolling wheels or a gyroscope to provide power for the cooling fans?

Well, I would assume that the actual components for computing would weigh around 10 kilograms, and the case and accessories would be around 25 kilograms. Of course it might be less than that, maybe around 30 kilograms?

Really, the most important thing is that it not much more than 400 watts to be feasible, otherwise it's just a waste of time. I know that high-performance laptops use around 300 watts, so surely you could build a decent desktop for maybe 450 watts and then undervolt it or throttle it down to around 400-ish watts?
With all due respect you're just gibbering regarding your weight calculations and making everyone waste their time on your 35 kg nonsense weight estimate.

Have you actually ever built a PC of any kind? You seem to have absolutely no idea about the real world weight of the total package in this form factor.
  #27  
Old 12-19-2016, 03:40 PM
Bryan Ekers Bryan Ekers is offline
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Most mini-ITX cases are around a cubic foot or less. By comparison, a cubic foot of water is about 62 pounds.
Maybe the OP is going overboard on liquid cooling.
  #28  
Old 12-19-2016, 03:51 PM
Ravenman Ravenman is offline
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I, too, am dying to know why this computer is expected to be several times heavier than other desktops, but for now I will settle for a simple question: in a water-cooled system, how much fluid is involved? And is it actually just water in the cooling getup, or water plus some kind of additive?
  #29  
Old 12-19-2016, 04:02 PM
Archinist Archinist is offline
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Well I was thinking about putting a UPS into the chassis surrounded by a bunch of high-powered fans and required equipment just in-case I took it somewhere where there were no spare power outlet.

The UPS might also go outside the chassis and be bolted into place by an extended steel frame box which would be lightly covered (not completely covered) with a breathable coloured material so that it doesn't look odd.

Since the UPS would be heavy and unbalance the rest of the stuff, then I guess a heavy metal brick or a bag of sand or something could be added to the opposing side, to make the weight balanced.

Then I guess either a 12v screen or an old tablet/laptop screen could be inserted into a hinge at the top where a hold could be bored out (or just dented/knocked out since machines are expensive/difficult to hire) and the wires could be run from the PC to the screen.

Then you could just knock some more holes into the chassis and rip out some spacing for the keyboard and a trackpad mouse and then just put a piece of paper over it for protection and portability. The screen could also fold down on a hinge.

The paper would be normal durable paper, and a roll of sticky tape could rest on the side of the PC chassis at all times, along with a paper holder. Then when you need to use the PC, you simply either plug it into existing perisher pahs or tear away the bit of paper and move the screen up.

Then when you are done, you fold the screen down and put the paper over the top, then use the sticky tape to tape it down securely. Then you use the luggage handle and wheel it away.


This is what I imagine would be the most efficient, although the feasibility of the screen idea is a bit wonky. I think I've seen 12v monitors before, so it shouldn't be too difficult.



I think usually the water loops you buy in walmart for PCs are usually just little bits of coolant stuff that goes round and around in a infinite loop of rubber pipes.

The water goes past the metal radiator and probably cools it down and a pump makes it go round. However these are the walmart ones, the ones you can make yourself are usually extremely convoluted and have dozens of different pathways, storage places, covered in LED lights and colored tubes, have lots of leaks if you don't fix them every 5 minutes and apparently you have to change the coolant every now and then and they're supposed to be very expensive and difficult to put together but sometimes are slightly better than the pre-built sealed walmart ones.
I think usually the water loops you buy in walmart for PCs are usually just little bits of coolant stuff that goes round and around in a infinite loop of rubber pipes.

The water goes past the metal radiator and probably cools it down and a pump makes it go round. However these are the walmart ones, the ones you can make yourself are usually extremely convoluted and have dozens of different pathways, storage places, covered in LED lights and colored tubes, have lots of leaks if you don't fix them every 5 minutes and apparently you have to change the coolant every now and then and they're supposed to be very expensive and difficult to put together but sometimes are slightly better than the pre-built sealed walmart ones.

Last edited by Archinist; 12-19-2016 at 04:06 PM.
  #30  
Old 12-19-2016, 04:06 PM
Ravenman Ravenman is offline
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No cupholder?
  #31  
Old 12-19-2016, 04:08 PM
Grey Grey is offline
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He likely had to save space for the horn that plays "La Cucaracha".

Last edited by Grey; 12-19-2016 at 04:08 PM.
  #32  
Old 12-19-2016, 04:19 PM
MikeS MikeS is offline
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Why do I have this image of a 70s IBM executive showing off a portable computer?
My parents had a TRS-80 Model 4P when I was younger. The "P" stood for "portable"; it was designed to be a single, fully encased unit containing the monitor, CPU, disk drives, and it had a special storage compartment for the keyboard.

According to the above link, it weighed in at "only" 26 lbs. "Portable" was an aspirational title more than anything. It was easier to tote the whole system around than a similar system made from separate components, but it was by no means an "on-the-go" computer.
  #33  
Old 12-19-2016, 04:28 PM
Bryan Ekers Bryan Ekers is offline
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A buddy of mine had an IBM Portable Personal 5155, model 68 (or if not that exact model, one that was very very similar) and it was about 30 pounds, with an integrated 9-inch screen.

I don't think I even got my first laptop until 2007. I still have it, still use it.

Last edited by Bryan Ekers; 12-19-2016 at 04:29 PM.
  #34  
Old 12-19-2016, 04:35 PM
Pork Rind Pork Rind is offline
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Well I was thinking about putting a UPS into the chassis surrounded by a bunch of high-powered fans and required equipment just in-case I took it somewhere where there were no spare power outlet...
Ah! I get it now. You want to build a high-powered PC with its own energy source, monitor, keyboard and mouse.
  #35  
Old 12-19-2016, 04:37 PM
Mangetout Mangetout is offline
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Well I was thinking about putting a UPS into the chassis surrounded by a bunch of high-powered fans and required equipment just in-case I took it somewhere where there were no spare power outlet.

The UPS might also go outside the chassis and be bolted into place by an extended steel frame box which would be lightly covered (not completely covered) with a breathable coloured material so that it doesn't look odd.

Since the UPS would be heavy and unbalance the rest of the stuff, then I guess a heavy metal brick or a bag of sand or something could be added to the opposing side, to make the weight balanced.

Then I guess either a 12v screen or an old tablet/laptop screen could be inserted into a hinge at the top where a hold could be bored out (or just dented/knocked out since machines are expensive/difficult to hire) and the wires could be run from the PC to the screen.

Then you could just knock some more holes into the chassis and rip out some spacing for the keyboard and a trackpad mouse and then just put a piece of paper over it for protection and portability. The screen could also fold down on a hinge.

The paper would be normal durable paper, and a roll of sticky tape could rest on the side of the PC chassis at all times, along with a paper holder. Then when you need to use the PC, you simply either plug it into existing perisher pahs or tear away the bit of paper and move the screen up.

Then when you are done, you fold the screen down and put the paper over the top, then use the sticky tape to tape it down securely. Then you use the luggage handle and wheel it away.


This is what I imagine would be the most efficient, although the feasibility of the screen idea is a bit wonky. I think I've seen 12v monitors before, so it shouldn't be too difficult.



I think usually the water loops you buy in walmart for PCs are usually just little bits of coolant stuff that goes round and around in a infinite loop of rubber pipes.

The water goes past the metal radiator and probably cools it down and a pump makes it go round. However these are the walmart ones, the ones you can make yourself are usually extremely convoluted and have dozens of different pathways, storage places, covered in LED lights and colored tubes, have lots of leaks if you don't fix them every 5 minutes and apparently you have to change the coolant every now and then and they're supposed to be very expensive and difficult to put together but sometimes are slightly better than the pre-built sealed walmart ones.
I think usually the water loops you buy in walmart for PCs are usually just little bits of coolant stuff that goes round and around in a infinite loop of rubber pipes.

The water goes past the metal radiator and probably cools it down and a pump makes it go round. However these are the walmart ones, the ones you can make yourself are usually extremely convoluted and have dozens of different pathways, storage places, covered in LED lights and colored tubes, have lots of leaks if you don't fix them every 5 minutes and apparently you have to change the coolant every now and then and they're supposed to be very expensive and difficult to put together but sometimes are slightly better than the pre-built sealed walmart ones.
Is this a deliberate attempt at an impractical portable computer? Because that sounds fun, and I like it - I have mothballed project to make a digital camera that may require two people to carry it.

Or is it a serious attempt to make a useful portable computer? Because laptops.
  #36  
Old 12-19-2016, 04:39 PM
enalzi enalzi is offline
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I have mothballed project to make a digital camera that may require two people to carry it.
Maybe they could use my invention of two motorcycles hooked together side by side with four seats.
  #37  
Old 12-19-2016, 04:48 PM
Pleonast Pleonast is offline
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Maybe they could use my invention of two motorcycles hooked together side by side with four seats.
Oh, and maybe some sort of canopy to protect against the weather. And lash some old steamer luggage to the back!
  #38  
Old 12-19-2016, 04:49 PM
Machine Elf Machine Elf is offline
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The UPS might also go outside the chassis and be bolted into place by an extended steel frame box which would be lightly covered (not completely covered) with a breathable coloured material so that it doesn't look odd.
The breathable coloured material is a must; we certainly wouldn't want it to look odd.
  #39  
Old 12-19-2016, 04:59 PM
Bear_Nenno Bear_Nenno is offline
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Strap it to a ruck frame. That's going to be the easiest and most convenient way of getting it around. Something like this:
http://www.cabelas.com/product/Cabel...Q&gclsrc=aw.ds
  #40  
Old 12-19-2016, 05:04 PM
Corner Case Corner Case is offline
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I just thought he was building a practical self-contained PC that he was taking to Jupiter where it would weigh 2.5x more than on Earth.
  #41  
Old 12-19-2016, 05:04 PM
Bryan Ekers Bryan Ekers is offline
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Just remember that if your battery charge isn't lasting long enough, you may need a larger coal scuttle.
  #42  
Old 12-19-2016, 05:13 PM
Mangetout Mangetout is offline
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Maybe they could use my invention of two motorcycles hooked together side by side with four seats.
I was trying something like that, but starting with four unicycles.
  #43  
Old 12-19-2016, 05:25 PM
Baron Greenback Baron Greenback is offline
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Archinist's new home-built PC boards an aeroplane:

http://static2.businessinsider.com/i...rd%20drive.jpg
  #44  
Old 12-19-2016, 05:26 PM
Ethilrist Ethilrist is offline
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Have you considered strapping it to a portable generator? They weigh more than the 35 kg, but you're looking at over 12 hours of run time on one tank of gas, and they already have wheels & such.
  #45  
Old 12-19-2016, 05:30 PM
running coach running coach is offline
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Originally Posted by enalzi View Post
Maybe they could use my invention of two motorcycles hooked together side by side with four seats.
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Originally Posted by Mangetout View Post
I was trying something like that, but starting with four unicycles.
Or four motorized unicycles.

Last edited by running coach; 12-19-2016 at 05:32 PM.
  #46  
Old 12-19-2016, 05:59 PM
snfaulkner snfaulkner is offline
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Two words: Steam Powered
  #47  
Old 12-19-2016, 06:13 PM
Quartz Quartz is offline
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Originally Posted by Archinist View Post
I am thinking about a mini-ITX PC build that would weigh 35 kilograms.
Are you making it out of iridium? My Shuttle XPC box weighs only a little over 5 Kg fully loaded.
  #48  
Old 12-19-2016, 06:26 PM
beowulff beowulff is offline
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BTW - putting a UPS in the case won't work. They require AC power to energize.
An inverter will work, but it's an absurd idea. Spend the money on a high-pwer laptop.
  #49  
Old 12-19-2016, 06:49 PM
Darren Garrison Darren Garrison is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beowulff View Post
BTW - putting a UPS in the case won't work.
Actually, there are UPSes that fit in 5.25 inch drive bays. Of course, like other UPSes, they are meant to keep the computer running during a power flicker, or just long enough for you to shut down gracefully during a longer outage, and not as a replacement for AC power.
  #50  
Old 12-19-2016, 07:20 PM
beowulff beowulff is offline
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Originally Posted by Darren Garrison View Post
Actually, there are UPSes that fit in 5.25 inch drive bays. Of course, like other UPSes, they are meant to keep the computer running during a power flicker, or just long enough for you to shut down gracefully during a longer outage, and not as a replacement for AC power.
Yes, I'm aware of that.
But, I don't think any of those will start up without AC power being present.
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