Incineration of Sarin/GB nerve gas, is it safe?

[cichlidiot]

On the local news last night, there was a piece about the Umatilla Army Depot and its plans to incinerate a large amount of GB projectiles. I don't recall a specific number or other types of weapons that were slated for incineration. I made a note of "GB", as I didn't have a clue what it was. Upon doing a search, I found several references to Sarin/Zarin, here's a site that talks about it in detail:

http://www.geocities.com/capecanaveral/lab/7050

My question is this. After reading the information at the above site (and a few others), one of the major factors seems to involve heat. As in, Sarin does not quickly dissipate in hot/dry conditions. The city of Pendleton is 30 miles away from the depot (one site said "directly downwind"), are the inhabitants really safe? The news cut to a local woman who said something like "Yeah, we've been told over and over again to put plastic coverings over our windows with duct tape to seal them, and put damp towels under any doors that aren't air tight." Is this realistic? The shots of the depot showed two people in heavy protective gear/gas masks, walking along the rows of projectiles. The whole thing just seemed surreal.

I'm not saying I'm hysterical, but I do feel surprised. It seemed like a Hanford down-winders scenario, all over again. Intentional or not. Is this nothing to worry about, or is there genuine cause for concern? I don't live in Oregon btw, but I still feel concern for people living near the depot. I should add that I did at one time live in Umatilla, and as for dryness, my "backyard" consisted of sand and sagebrush.

[erislover]

Without more research I can't say precisely, but it is possible that the molecule is easily destroyed by heat. And it is possible that even though incineration will invariably release some of the compound, the LD₅₀ is what will tell you whether the amount released is something to be worried about.

The gummint also burned a bunch of a hallucinogenic agent it had made, BZ I think they called it?, some time ago (I did a "research paper" on chemical warfare in the eight grade, so quality of research was low and time for memory to fade is high) but I don't recall reading about any atrocities attributed to this liquid being incinerated.

As well, just because a guy is in a protective suit when he handles the stuff doesn't mean that you need to be worried 30 miles away. Hell, caffiene is considered a Dangerous Good by the FAA but that doesn't stop us from drinking coke without protective gear on, knowwhatImean?

Given the damage that the nerve agents can do, though, I would be pretty skeptical myself.

[andros]

? The news cut to a local woman who said something like "Yeah, we've been told over and over again to put plastic coverings over our windows with duct tape to seal them, and put damp towels under any doors that aren't air tight."

That's part of the emergency preparedness procedures that residents of Umatilla and Pendleton are informed of. It's not that they are expected to keep plastin on their windows at all times, just to be prepared to in the event of a major catastrophe (like a terrorist attack on the Depot, or something equally unlikely).

AFAIK, there is absolutely no evidence of dangerous gasses being released at Umatilla or at the Tooele incinerator in Utah.

[cichlidiot]

That's part of the emergency preparedness procedures that residents of Umatilla and Pendleton are informed of. It's not that they are expected to keep plastin on their windows at all times, just to be prepared to in the event of a major catastrophe (like a terrorist attack on the Depot, or something equally unlikely).

AFAIK, there is absolutely no evidence of dangerous gasses being released at Umatilla or at the Tooele incinerator in Utah. [/b]

Yes, it was understood that they had been told this procedure in case of an emergency, I was wondering more about how effective some plastic and towels would be. I also saw quite a few sites on other weapons incineration, so I figured it would be all over the news if something horrible happened. I posted more along the lines of, how much of a risk does this pose? Also, is the plastic and towel a lot like a seat-belt on an airplane, more for peace of mind, than actual safety? I don't recall hearing anyone having died in a plane crash because they weren't buckled in. (maybe getting sucked out of a window or something)

I don't believe dangerous nerve gas is escaping, I was looking more for evidence of potential risks, etc. Does the recommended procedure really make a difference?

[andros]

I posted more along the lines of, how much of a risk does this pose?

:shrug: I can't quantify it for you. The risk is very, very small that any toxins will disperse from the incinerators. But if they do for some reason, it's potentially a big deal. Like many things, it's an infinitesimal chance of a major consequence, and it's a tradeoff that seems reasonable to many.

Also, is the plastic and towel a lot like a seat-belt on an airplane, more for peace of mind, than actual safety?

Something like mustard gas, it'll work just fine. Sarin or VX, I've no idea. Certainly they won't penetrate an airtight building--whether almost airtight is good enough I don't know.

BTW, airplane seatbelts are not intended to save lives in a crash. They're intended to keep you from flying all over the cabin during turbulence or emergency maneuvers. And I have seen someone knocked unconscious aainst the ceiling of a plane before.

[sewalk]

The measures indicated will not do any good in a major catastrophe. Nothing short of MOPP-4 protection and immediate access to safe decontamination facilities will safeguard you from a concentrated exposure to VX. However, in the case of a low-level leak (the most likely scenario), any precaution feasible is a good idea. Anything that gets your exposure level below MD-50 is a good idea. There is a (supposedly, since I'm going from what I was taught) big difference in syptoms and effects between a small dose and a lethal or near-lethal dose of nerve agents. The less you receive, the better off you'll be.

That being said, VX is not a persistent agent. It is designed to dissipate relatively quickly so that an area is only temporarily denied to an enemy. Exposure to direct sunlight breaks it down in time. Incineration has long been practiced by the US Army with few, if any, major problems. I've known MPs who were stationed at Johnston Island (which is the location of the Army's largest stockpile of chemical munitions) and all they ever talked about was how boring it was and how draconian the rules concerning precautions were, like having to carry a gas mask everywhere you went, even the shower.