#1  
Old 08-04-2017, 05:26 PM
dtilque dtilque is offline
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Out-of-round-abouts

I've been doing some research on roundabouts and came across an unusually shaped one in Boise. Locally, they call it a dog bone roundabout because of its shape. Also, there's a proposal for a similarly shaped one in Cambridge MA which they call a peanutabout. I don't know if they've accepted this solution or not.

Are irregular-shape-abouts such as these common? The Kittelson page suggests they may be common in Europe. Is that right? If not, what other irregular-shape-abouts are there?


[Preemptive strike: No, don't tell me about the Swindon Magic Roundabout. I already know about it and it's not what I'm looking for. It's not irregular enough. But someone always brings it up whenever we talk about roundabouts. Consider it done for this thread.]
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  #2  
Old 08-04-2017, 05:47 PM
Skywatcher Skywatcher is offline
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Here's an oval with a dent in one side and here's a rounded square.
  #3  
Old 08-04-2017, 05:57 PM
dtilque dtilque is offline
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I don't think either of those are what are usually considered roundabouts.
  #4  
Old 08-04-2017, 06:01 PM
USCDiver USCDiver is offline
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nevermind, link didn't work

Last edited by USCDiver; 08-04-2017 at 06:03 PM.
  #5  
Old 08-04-2017, 07:50 PM
jz78817 jz78817 is offline
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I don't think either of those are what are usually considered roundabouts.
they are not.
  #6  
Old 08-04-2017, 08:06 PM
GusNSpot GusNSpot is offline
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Tulsa has had this round roundabout for as long as I can remember. 1955 I remember it and it could be much older.

I know, it is not out of round but it is old and in Oklahoma so that makes it special......

Old one in Tulsa, Oklahoma.
  #7  
Old 08-04-2017, 08:26 PM
LSLGuy LSLGuy is offline
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I see two freeway interchanges. The latter looks mostly like a SPUI https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single...an_interchange. Which, whatever else it may be, is absolutely not a roundabout.
  #8  
Old 08-04-2017, 09:43 PM
wolfman wolfman is offline
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Detroit has an interestimate loop arounD Campus Martius.It not really a roundabout because it has tons of lights. It's kind of an artifact of the old hexgrid downtown was originally built it.
  #9  
Old 08-05-2017, 12:05 PM
burpo the wonder mutt burpo the wonder mutt is offline
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You know, the words will make you out 'n' out.

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Old 08-05-2017, 12:16 PM
USCDiver USCDiver is offline
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Here's the one I tried to link yesterday.

Looks like a maxi-pad
  #11  
Old 08-05-2017, 12:20 PM
wolfman wolfman is offline
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Detroit has an interestimate loop arounD Campus Martius.It not really a roundabout because it has tons of lights. It's kind of an artifact of the old hexgrid downtown was originally built it.
I would just like to take moment to blame my phone's tiny keyboard, and randomly applied spellcheck for that post. Interestimate? How the hell did it correct "interesting" into that?
  #12  
Old 08-05-2017, 12:38 PM
burpo the wonder mutt burpo the wonder mutt is offline
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Interestimate--I like it! An interesting estimate. Neat.
  #13  
Old 08-05-2017, 01:06 PM
dtilque dtilque is offline
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Originally Posted by burpo the wonder mutt View Post
You know, the words will make you out 'n' out.
Yes indeed.

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Originally Posted by USCDiver View Post
Here's the one I tried to link yesterday.
Excellent.

Another one from the US, though. I'm somewhat surprised no one's produced one or more from Europe or elsewhere.

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Originally Posted by wolfman View Post
I would just like to take moment to blame my phone's tiny keyboard, and randomly applied spellcheck for that post. Interestimate? How the hell did it correct "interesting" into that?
I was wondering the same thing. Shouldn't spellcheck only substitute words that are in its wordlist?
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Old 08-05-2017, 02:36 PM
USCDiver USCDiver is offline
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Excellent.

Another one from the US, though. I'm somewhat surprised no one's produced one or more from Europe or elsewhere.
I suspect these in the US are after-the-fact solutions to problem intersections and as such require an unusual shape. I would bet that in Europe, the areas with "traffic circles" (as their known here) are planned in advance for the more common circular shape.
  #15  
Old 08-05-2017, 03:24 PM
Skywatcher Skywatcher is offline
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I don't think either of those are what are usually considered roundabouts.
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Originally Posted by LSLGuy View Post
I see two freeway interchanges.
They're both.
  #16  
Old 08-05-2017, 03:29 PM
LSLGuy LSLGuy is offline
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Originally Posted by dtilque View Post
...
I was wondering the same thing. Shouldn't spellcheck only substitute words that are in its wordlist?
Yes, but you forgot that phones "learn" these days. With the right combo of settings, every misspelling that you don't immediately correct gets remembered as correct for later.

Which is great if you often text jargon to coworkers and want your phone to quickly pick up on "TPSreport" or "Wojeihowicz" or whatever. But sucketh greatly if you're just really crappy at thumb-typing ordinary English.

I got a new phone that had those settings. A couple weeks later the darn thing was almost unusable; any plausible typo I might make I had already made and it had already learned. So now any random first 2 letters comes up with a dozen suggested replacements, all typos, with maybe one real word in there somewhere. Which prevous typo it would helpfully autocomplete with if I bunped the spacebar. Which I do often since I'm usually touching the screen just below where I'm aiming; the entire bottom row of letter keys maps to spacebar with that error.

Which of course only reinforced the "learning" that the first typo in the list is my favorite word and totally the desirable thing to autocomplete.

Argh!!! Modern "artificial intelligence" proves to be artificial stupidity instead. Again.

There's no way to directly edit the dictionary of learned words. So I'm long-pressing each learned typo as I see them then selecting "forget learned word", "OK", "yes I'm sure." One after another through dozens and dozens.

Eventually it'll be cleaned out. Maybe.

Last edited by LSLGuy; 08-05-2017 at 03:34 PM.
  #17  
Old 08-05-2017, 03:41 PM
Skywatcher Skywatcher is offline
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Cambridge seems to be planning a variant of the double roundabout. Here's a double mini roundabout.

Last edited by Skywatcher; 08-05-2017 at 03:43 PM.
  #18  
Old 08-05-2017, 03:46 PM
Skywatcher Skywatcher is offline
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St. Augustine, FL, was planning a true double roundabout. That's from two years ago.

Last edited by Skywatcher; 08-05-2017 at 03:47 PM.
  #19  
Old 08-05-2017, 03:48 PM
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Chelmsford MA
Lots of town centers have one way traffic around the town green with odd shapes.
  #20  
Old 08-05-2017, 03:50 PM
burpo the wonder mutt burpo the wonder mutt is offline
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LSLGuy, you've got another problem: you mis-typed "bunped."

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  #21  
Old 08-05-2017, 03:54 PM
LSLGuy LSLGuy is offline
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Good catch! Thanks.

But I'm typing these posts on my tablet which isn't nearly so "helpful". But just in case I checked; it still thinks "bunped" is a typo and "bumped " is OK. Whew! The humans might still be winning. For now. A little.

Last edited by LSLGuy; 08-05-2017 at 03:56 PM.
  #22  
Old 08-05-2017, 04:09 PM
Robot Arm Robot Arm is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dtilque View Post
Also, there's a proposal for a similarly shaped one in Cambridge MA which they call a peanutabout. I don't know if they've accepted this solution or not.
I travel through Inman Square every now and then, I'll have to keep an eye out and see if that design gets adopted.

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Originally Posted by Telemark View Post
Chelmsford MA
Lots of town centers have one way traffic around the town green with odd shapes.
A bit of trivia for you. One of the background artists for The Simpsons grew up in Chelmsford. The Chelmsford Public Library in your link is said to have been the inspiration for the look Springfield city hall.
  #23  
Old 08-05-2017, 04:20 PM
Chronos Chronos is offline
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Quote:
Quoth Telemark:

Lots of town centers have one way traffic around the town green with odd shapes.
Cleveland's Public Square has become more roundabout-like in the past year or so, with the north-south street now closed through the middle, and the east-west street open only to buses. It's still got five or six lights, though.
  #24  
Old 08-05-2017, 05:24 PM
Dr. Strangelove Dr. Strangelove is offline
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I've been doing some research on roundabouts and came across an unusually shaped one in Boise.
How strange. The map view shows the dogbone, but the satellite view shows a 5-way intersection. Old imagery, sure, but the copyright at the bottom says 2017. The dogbone must be very new.

ETA: Also, the surrounding empty lots appear to show them clearing/grading some areas where the dogbone passes. So it looks like they caught it just as they started construction.

Last edited by Dr. Strangelove; 08-05-2017 at 05:29 PM.
  #25  
Old 08-05-2017, 06:12 PM
buddha_david buddha_david is offline
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You know, the words will make you out 'n' out.
Well, they're handy for when you call it morning driving through the sound and in and out the valley.
  #26  
Old 08-05-2017, 06:46 PM
Telemark Telemark is offline
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I travel through Inman Square every now and then, I'll have to keep an eye out and see if that design gets adopted.
We walk through Inman a few times a week. The change is due to a bicyclist getting killed there last year because of the difficult intersection. They've already made left hand turns illegal (although they haven't been able to put in a physical barrier yet). The fire station makes any simple barriers difficult.
  #27  
Old 08-05-2017, 07:54 PM
RealityChuck RealityChuck is offline
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Troy, NH has a main street that works as a roundabout. It's sort of bone shaped: southbound traffic on the road to the west; northbound traffic on the road to the east. To get to High Street from the south you have to go all the way through the main drag, turn left and then go back again.
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  #28  
Old 08-06-2017, 12:22 AM
Skywatcher Skywatcher is offline
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Here's an oval in Northern Virginia in 1951; reconfigured by '62.

Last edited by Skywatcher; 08-06-2017 at 12:23 AM. Reason: wrong link
  #29  
Old 08-06-2017, 12:42 AM
Lord Feldon Lord Feldon is online now
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"Dog bone" roundabouts are somewhat common when a roundabout is used at the intersection of a street and a pair of freeway ramps. The only traffic that would use the missing segment at each end would be people making U-turns.

Last edited by Lord Feldon; 08-06-2017 at 12:43 AM.
  #30  
Old 08-06-2017, 12:48 AM
Skywatcher Skywatcher is offline
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A little east of those previous links is a tri-oval.

Last edited by Skywatcher; 08-06-2017 at 12:50 AM.
  #31  
Old 08-06-2017, 01:03 AM
Lord Feldon Lord Feldon is online now
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Here's a dog bone at a motorway junction in the Netherlands. The next junction to the northwest also has one. This one in England is pretty similar to the Boise one, with streets that cross at a sharp angle.

Last edited by Lord Feldon; 08-06-2017 at 01:05 AM.
  #32  
Old 08-06-2017, 01:05 AM
Bullitt Bullitt is offline
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Originally Posted by burpo the wonder mutt View Post
You know, the words will make you out 'n' out.
I spend the day your way

I'm glad I looked up the lyrics to this old classic, because I always thought that

Mountains come out of the sky and they stand there

was instead

Mama's come out of the sky and they stand there



Quote:
Originally Posted by dtilque View Post
I've been doing some research on roundabouts and came across an unusually shaped one in Boise. Locally, they call it a dog bone roundabout because of its shape.
Cool. I'll be visiting Boise in a couple of weeks and will look for this... BUT -- how strange -- ooking at satellite view, that dog bone roundabout is gone(!):
https://www.google.com/maps/@43.6553.../data=!3m1!1e3

Quote:
Originally Posted by dtilque View Post
Are irregular-shape-abouts such as these common? The Kittelson page suggests they may be common in Europe. Is that right? If not, what other irregular-shape-abouts are there?
In my experience, irregular shaped roundabouts are not very common.
  #33  
Old 08-06-2017, 01:09 AM
Lord Feldon Lord Feldon is online now
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I see two freeway interchanges. The latter looks mostly like a SPUI https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single...an_interchange. Which, whatever else it may be, is absolutely not a roundabout.
I've used the latter one. The "rounded square" part is arguably the opposite of a SPUI. It has a light at each corner (so it definitely isn't a roundabout either), meaning a left turn can require three stops.

Last edited by Lord Feldon; 08-06-2017 at 01:11 AM.
  #34  
Old 08-06-2017, 07:17 AM
LSLGuy LSLGuy is offline
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Wow, you're right. That's tres evil; just about the worst possible combination of ways to minimize throughput. I hadn't zoomed in far enough to really see what was going on there plus the map overlaid with the photo messes each separate view up. Plus the fun with the HOV interchange piled on top of the non-HOV interchange.

That oughta teach me about being hasty.

Last edited by LSLGuy; 08-06-2017 at 07:18 AM.
  #35  
Old 08-06-2017, 07:55 AM
Mangetout Mangetout is online now
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Here's a dog bone at a motorway junction in the Netherlands. The next junction to the northwest also has one. This one in England is pretty similar to the Boise one, with streets that cross at a sharp angle.
I've encountered a lot of junctions that are sort of functionally similar to that, but composed of two, linked, complete roundabouts - like this one:
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/...354!4d1.115305
  #36  
Old 08-06-2017, 08:02 AM
LSLGuy LSLGuy is offline
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That two roundabouts & a bridge style is now gaining traction in the US for interchanges between a limited access highway and a low-traffic cross road. It avoids the expense and flow restriction of two traffic lights and doesn't need as much real estate as the cloverleaf design.

The biggest problem remains ignorant local resistance to anything novel in road design.
  #37  
Old 08-06-2017, 08:29 AM
dtilque dtilque is offline
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How strange. The map view shows the dogbone, but the satellite view shows a 5-way intersection. Old imagery, sure, but the copyright at the bottom says 2017. The dogbone must be very new.

ETA: Also, the surrounding empty lots appear to show them clearing/grading some areas where the dogbone passes. So it looks like they caught it just as they started construction.
Completed October 2016, according to reports.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skywatcher View Post
Cambridge seems to be planning a variant of the double roundabout. Here's a double mini roundabout.
I'm surprised they didn't just make that a single oval shaped one. The two lanes between the centers go in opposite directions which could be confusing since they're passing each other on the opposite side than traffic usually does.

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Originally Posted by Skywatcher View Post
Couldn't find any indication it's being put into effect. Which isn't too surprising. That's a major intersection in that city, so they're not going to rush the job.

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Originally Posted by Skywatcher View Post
Definitely not a modern roundabout, since those weren't invented until the mid-60s. That first image shows a royal mess, by the way. I'd hate to have to drive through it.
  #38  
Old 08-06-2017, 03:09 PM
Hari Seldon Hari Seldon is offline
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Here is a double roundabout right outside the Swiss town of Fribourg: https://www.google.ca/maps/@46.7982162,7.1278925,18.25z. My wife and I lived a couple blocks away and shopped at a Jumbo supermarket which now seems to have morphed into a sporting goods store.

I have to ask my son about the peanutabout. He just happens to be Director of Traffic and Parking for Cambridge. Unfortunately, he is now on a 9 day cruise of the Baltic between Copenhagen and St. Petersburg.
  #39  
Old 08-06-2017, 07:25 PM
Balthisar Balthisar is offline
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That two roundabouts & a bridge style is now gaining traction in the US for interchanges between a limited access highway and a low-traffic cross road. It avoids the expense and flow restriction of two traffic lights and doesn't need as much real estate as the cloverleaf design.
Like these? God, I wish we had more of them! They work superbly, much better than awaiting a light.
  #40  
Old 08-06-2017, 08:20 PM
LSLGuy LSLGuy is offline
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Like these? God, I wish we had more of them! They work superbly, much better than awaiting a light.
Close but not exactly. That one has some extra features and looks like a remodeled cloverleaf. It's wasting vast amounts of real estate.

I was responding to this post from the UK
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mangetout View Post
I've encountered a lot of junctions that are sort of functionally similar to that, but composed of two, linked, complete roundabouts - like this one:
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/...354!4d1.115305
Net of LHD/RHD differences, this style is all the rage in some of the more rural states. Instead of the traditional "diamond interchange" with off-ramps ending in stop signs or traffic lights, two small roundabouts keep everything flowing all the time.

They're especially excellent when most of the traffic is one way. Like a distant bedroom community where everybody is going to the highway and getting on in the morning and the same everybody is returning en masse the other way in the evening.
  #41  
Old 08-06-2017, 10:13 PM
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How about the Basin Reserve?
  #42  
Old 08-07-2017, 07:55 PM
Ignatz Ignatz is offline
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Here's another "peanut"

https://www.google.com/maps/@34.3487.../data=!3m1!1e3
  #43  
Old 08-08-2017, 12:27 AM
dtilque dtilque is offline
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How about the Basin Reserve?
Is that actually considered a roundabout?

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Very good. Thank you.
  #44  
Old 08-08-2017, 11:19 AM
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There's a new one near us (not on Google Maps yet).

While the "circle" part is normal, what they did to connect stuff is weird. (N at top.)

Code:
      |
------|
      /----\
      |  O  |---------
      \----/
      |
      |
There are houses on the W side, so they built it off to the E side. The road on the E is new. But they didn't line it up with the W road.

Traveling N/S is practically a straight line.

If you want to go N and take the W road you have to go completely out of the circle and turn sharply around a concrete median. Of course if you're coming in from the W and want to go N then you don't enter the circle at all and it's a stop sign. No "keep moving if it's clear" efficiency of a circle.

I have no idea why they didn't line this up better.
  #45  
Old 08-08-2017, 12:29 PM
Skywatcher Skywatcher is offline
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Is that actually considered a roundabout?
With two stoplights, it's certainly closer to a roundabout than my second link. I haven't been on Seminary Road in quite some time and forgot about all the stoplights.
  #46  
Old 08-12-2017, 05:12 PM
Ignatz Ignatz is offline
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Here's one that is signalized and has a major artery cutting thru it. Before those features were added decades ago, it had one of the highest crash rates in Massachusetts, maybe still does. I had two fenders crushed while commuting thru it in the '60s, in separate incidents:

https://www.google.com/maps/search/b.../data=!3m1!1e3

Last edited by Ignatz; 08-12-2017 at 05:13 PM.
  #47  
Old 08-12-2017, 06:41 PM
dtilque dtilque is offline
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Here's one that is signalized and has a major artery cutting thru it. Before those features were added decades ago, it had one of the highest crash rates in Massachusetts, maybe still does. I had two fenders crushed while commuting thru it in the '60s, in separate incidents:

https://www.google.com/maps/search/b.../data=!3m1!1e3
That looks like it would work much better if they put that artery on a bridge over the roundabout.
  #48  
Old 08-12-2017, 07:14 PM
Ignatz Ignatz is offline
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It was planned to do that as part of a planned extension of then I-95 northeastward from Boston but the then governor opted for using all the federal money to go to expand the MBTA subway system. Here's the history of that (map at the link).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inters..._Massachusetts

History
The original plans called for I-95 to run through downtown Boston. The highway would have progressed from Route 128 and Readville, followed the Southwest Corridor, joined the Inner Belt in Roxbury, heading east, and joining the Southeast Expressway at South Bay, then north to the Central Artery at the South Station interchange with the Massachusetts Turnpike/Interstate 90, and connecting with the Northeast Expressway at the Charlestown banks of the Charles River.
However, due to pressure from local residents, all proposed Interstate Highways within Route 128 were canceled in 1972 by Governor Francis Sargent with the exception of Interstate 93 to Boston. The only sections of I-95 completed within the Route 128 beltway by the Massachusetts Department of Transportation were the segment known as the Northeast Expressway north from Charlestown to Saugus, which is now part of U.S. Route 1, and the Central Artery, which cut the North End neighborhood from downtown Boston proper until the Thomas P. O'Neill Jr. Tunnel essentially submerged the old Central Artery's traffic load below ground level in 2003. The Southwest Expressway and the Inner Belt highways were among the Sargent-canceled highways.

Original 1955 Yellow Book plan showing the southwestern routing of I-95 to the Inner Belt. The modern I-95 follows the outer belt shown on this map (now considered the "inner" Route 128 compared to the "outer" I-495 which is not shown, and which started construction 2 years after the study).
Between 1972 and 1974, plans were to extend I-95 along a northerly extension of the Northeast Expressway to Route 128 in northwestern Danvers. During this time, I-95 was officially routed along Route 128 from Canton to Braintree and north along the Southeast Expressway (also designated Route 3), from Braintree to Boston, then following the Central Artery, and continuing along the Northeast Expressway in Boston, Chelsea and Revere.
When the Northeast Expressway extension (between Saugus and Danvers) was canceled in 1974, I-95's route shifted to its current routing along the perimeter highway (Route 128) and I-93 was extended to meet I-95 in Canton. For several decades, plans for the abandoned roadways could still be seen going from the end of the Northeast Expressway to the Saugus River in Saugus in the form of a graded but unpaved roadbed. Much of this was removed during the early 2000s. At the US 1/Route 60 interchange, one can still see unused bridges and ghost ramps that were originally intended to carry I-95.
  #49  
Old 08-12-2017, 07:33 PM
Ignatz Ignatz is offline
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I have to take some of that back, as it's been a long time since I lived in the Boston area and I'd forgotten some details of the highway plans for the Revere and North Shore area. I just found this thread and Bell Circle is at the bottom center of the first map/photo, just above the word "planning". The n.e. extension was to bypass the circle, thereby greatly reducing the traffic volume in it. Bell and the other two circles shown on that photo have been there since around the late '40s/early '50s I guess.

At first I thought this was from the SDMB but it just shares the v-bulletin posting system

http://www.archboston.org/community/...ead.php?t=4021
  #50  
Old 09-21-2017, 07:24 AM
Hari Seldon Hari Seldon is offline
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Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Trantor
Posts: 11,085
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hari Seldon View Post
Here is a double roundabout right outside the Swiss town of Fribourg: https://www.google.ca/maps/@46.7982162,7.1278925,18.25z. My wife and I lived a couple blocks away and shopped at a Jumbo supermarket which now seems to have morphed into a sporting goods store.

I have to ask my son about the peanutabout. He just happens to be Director of Traffic and Parking for Cambridge. Unfortunately, he is now on a 9 day cruise of the Baltic between Copenhagen and St. Petersburg.
I just spoke to my son last night and he told me it had been canceled, that the nature of the intersection made it unfeasible.
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