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  #1  
Old 08-21-2017, 03:45 PM
Budget Player Cadet Budget Player Cadet is online now
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You either get to call everyone you don't like a nazi...

...Or you get to punch nazis.

Pick one.

You can strictly define a political group that is uniquely abhorrent and awful, and argue that it doesn't deserve all the same protections under the law as everyone else, that their speech is inherently violent, and that their ideology must be purged to protect minorities.

You can go around calling everyone you don't like a member of such a group.

You can't do both.

Well, okay, you can, but it makes you a gigantic douche, and fundamentally dishonest. It misses the entire reason for curtailing that group in the first place. It draws the battle lines too broadly, and threatens people who would otherwise be on your side. You know why the right isn't lining up to kick the Charlottesville protesters in the nuts? Because they think they're next. Because of overzealous fuckers whose theory of mind hasn't evolved past "I think you're doing this because you hate a minority, therefore you must think you're doing this because you hate a minority" on issues like affirmative action. Because of the people who can't tell that "punch a nazi" is an incredibly dangerous sentiment when anyone to the right of the former governor of Massachusetts can be expected to be called a nazi! It's really hard to blame them.

This post has been brought to you by Chimera being a gigantic douche. Fucking stop it. I shouldn't have to explain to people that neo-nazi ideology is noxious, but I equally shouldn't have to explain that if you say "Nazis deserve no rights" and then call anyone you disagree with a Nazi, you're an asshole.

Last edited by Budget Player Cadet; 08-21-2017 at 03:47 PM.
  #2  
Old 08-21-2017, 03:54 PM
PatriotX PatriotX is offline
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lol


fair point.


I came across something from the power lin folks which called antifa "Brownshirts"
Is that irony?
Or some other one? (I can never keep all those terms straight.)

I wanted to link to it.
So I went to powr line and searched for "Brownshirts"

Holy shit!
Everyfuckingbody is a Brownshirt (I won't link, but feel free to try it)

Is that irony? Or the other one?
  #3  
Old 08-21-2017, 03:54 PM
Chimera Chimera is offline
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Originally Posted by Budget Player Cadet View Post
This post has been brought to you by Chimera being a gigantic douche. Fucking stop it. I shouldn't have to explain to people that neo-nazi ideology is noxious, but I equally shouldn't have to explain that if you say "Nazis deserve no rights" and then call anyone you disagree with a Nazi, you're an asshole.
Stop being a clown. I didn't say they deserve no rights. I pointed out that some people on the right think that people they don't like don't deserve Free Speech, yet are running around defending Nazi Free Speech. They're the idiots who can't have it both ways, which if you had any reading comprehension at all, maybe you'd have figured out.
  #4  
Old 08-21-2017, 04:16 PM
Budget Player Cadet Budget Player Cadet is online now
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Stop being a clown. I didn't say they deserve no rights. I pointed out that some people on the right think that people they don't like don't deserve Free Speech, yet are running around defending Nazi Free Speech. They're the idiots who can't have it both ways, which if you had any reading comprehension at all, maybe you'd have figured out.
How far back in your posting history do you think I have to go before finding something along the lines of "punch a nazi" or "nazis shouldn't have <insert right any other political group has here>"? Because that was just the first example I found on that page, where you seem to be implying that there's something wrong with defending the rights of nazis to speak. At that point I stopped looking. If you don't do that... Well, fine, but my point is more general, and Latro still isn't a fucking Nazi. Stop overusing that word.
  #5  
Old 08-21-2017, 04:27 PM
Chimera Chimera is offline
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How far back in your posting history do you think I have to go before finding something along the lines of "punch a nazi" or "nazis shouldn't have <insert right any other political group has here>"? Because that was just the first example I found on that page, where you seem to be implying that there's something wrong with defending the rights of nazis to speak. At that point I stopped looking. If you don't do that... Well, fine, but my point is more general, and Latro still isn't a fucking Nazi. Stop overusing that word.
Go ahead. Search my posting history and show me where I ever said Nazis should not have the same free speech rights everyone else has. Not where you're reading it into what I say, but where I actually say it. Because I've repeatedly posted my beliefs about free speech, which I will repeat here;

I believe in Freedom of Speech.
Because when people are not free to say what is on their mind, you never truly know who they are.
When people feel free to say anything, you know who the bastards are.

Latro may or may not be an actual Nazi, but he has made it clear from his postings that he isn't too far away and is definitely a sympathizer.

My problems with people defending nazi speech? When you're known for having a problem with people on the left exercising theirs. When you have people like octopus saying the only reason the nazis came armed to the teeth was because they were apparently scared to death of Antifas and so it is really the fault of all those meanies on the left that the Nazis and White Supremacists came out better armed than the police, tried to burn synagogues, attack peaceful counter-protesters and ram a car into a crowd.

Because clearly, if the people on the left weren't such violent people, the people on the right would never feel the need to carry weapons, threaten violence and "joke" about killing liberals. Right?
  #6  
Old 08-21-2017, 04:29 PM
Chimera Chimera is offline
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And really, what the hell is wrong with people who would rather be defending the rights of Nazis and white supremacists, and attacking people on the left, than disagreeing with those philosophies?

Yeah, it makes you look like you'd rather stand with them and against the left, because you believe the left is far worse than nazis.
  #7  
Old 08-21-2017, 04:32 PM
Gorsnak Gorsnak is online now
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You know who else thought there were only two possible sides to an issue rather than a continuum?
  #8  
Old 08-21-2017, 04:54 PM
Steophan Steophan is offline
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Originally Posted by Chimera View Post
And really, what the hell is wrong with people who would rather be defending the rights of Nazis and white supremacists, and attacking people on the left, than disagreeing with those philosophies?

Yeah, it makes you look like you'd rather stand with them and against the left, because you believe the left is far worse than nazis.
Defending their right to free speech despite the views being unpopular, indeed reprehensible IS disagreeing with their fascist philosophy, you fucking hypocritical moron.
  #9  
Old 08-21-2017, 05:08 PM
Euphonious Polemic Euphonious Polemic is offline
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You know who else thought there were only two possible sides to an issue rather than a continuum?
Trump?
  #10  
Old 08-21-2017, 05:21 PM
Drunky Smurf Drunky Smurf is offline
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Everyone in this thread is being a Nazi. Especially Chimera. He's Naziing harder than anyone.
  #11  
Old 08-21-2017, 05:38 PM
marshmallow marshmallow is offline
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If the Nazis take over they'll remember how much centrist libs like the OP respected the discourse.
  #12  
Old 08-21-2017, 05:53 PM
SteveG1 SteveG1 is offline
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If the Nazis take over they'll remember how much centrist libs like the OP respected the discourse.
... and then kill them anyway?

If it walks like a Nazi and quacks like a Nazi ...


Similarly if Bubba marches with Nazis and wants to beat folks up with the Nazis ...
  #13  
Old 08-21-2017, 05:54 PM
SteveG1 SteveG1 is offline
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Everyone in this thread is being a Nazi. Especially Chimera. He's Naziing harder than anyone.
Don't Nazi so much. You'll go blind.
  #14  
Old 08-22-2017, 01:38 AM
Budget Player Cadet Budget Player Cadet is online now
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If the Nazis take over they'll remember how much centrist libs like the OP respected the discourse.
And if pigs become sentient and superpowered, they'll look real kindly at vegetarians.

There has yet to be a single white supremacist gathering that wasn't absolutely overwhelmed with counterprotesters. The Nazis are not taking over, unless you want to somehow broaden it to the point where garden-variety anti-globalists and anti-immigration hawks qualify as "nazis", at which point the term has lost all meaning. The far more likely problem is that we ignore and damage norms which help ensure that nazis cannot come to power. The far more likely problem is that we are too broad in our characterizations, and alienate people who might otherwise be allies.

By all means, let's do our best to make Richard Spencer no longer a part of the national discourse. But let's remember proportionality. Charlottesville was their big event, and it had what, a thousand assholes from across the country? There are more people at the Southwest Harbor Flamingo Festival each year, and the Flamingo Festival sucks ass every single year. A thousand people is not a threat, it's a joke. On the other hand, it's become a tactic among the far-right to announce a march or a rally, then not show up and watch as leftist counterprotesters make asses of themselves. There is legitimate animosity towards "antifa" on the right, because they're seen as threatening and indescriminate. This did not come from nowhere.

The only way the nazis even stand the slightest chance is if we give up the moral high ground, and make "be a neo-nazi" look like a palatable alternative. That's one significant failure state for liberalism. I don't think "Neo-nazis, on their own, become popular enough to have significant influence in the US Government" is a failure state we need to worry about.

Last edited by Budget Player Cadet; 08-22-2017 at 01:41 AM.
  #15  
Old 08-22-2017, 03:26 AM
Leaper Leaper is offline
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I dunno, hasn't the past few years been full of minorities fighting what they see as persistent, systemic racism in America? How far apart are trigger happy cops from Steve Bannon from the decision makers who poisoned Flint from the pipeline builders from the guy who ran over the protesters? Your argument makes the most sense if you are optimistic about racism having little, or even fading, influence in America, and considering the controversies of the past few years, and who's in the White House, I'd say optimism isn't universally shared.

Last edited by Leaper; 08-22-2017 at 03:27 AM.
  #16  
Old 08-22-2017, 03:59 AM
Budget Player Cadet Budget Player Cadet is online now
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I dunno, hasn't the past few years been full of minorities fighting what they see as persistent, systemic racism in America?
Absolutely, and we should support that fight. It doesn't mean that everyone on your list who intentionally or inadvertently perpetuates systemic racism is a nazi, or that we should round to the nearest cliche. I mean, look at this list:

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How far apart are trigger happy cops from Steve Bannon from the decision makers who poisoned Flint from the pipeline builders from the guy who ran over the protesters?
Everyone on this list is in some way problematic. Very few people on this list are nazis. A little under half of 'em may not even be racist, even in the subconscious "implicit bias" ways that you could call certain cops "racist"! And I maintain that if we want "nazi" to mean anything, it has to have distinctions from your garden-variety racist, and even from your garden-variety anti-globalist white separatist. I will stop quoting Slate Star Codex when it stops being the most sensible take on the issue I have seen:
Everyone is a little bit racist. We know this because there is a song called “Everyone’s A Little Bit Racist” and it is very cute. Also because most people score poorly on implicit association tests, because a lot of white people will get anxious if they see a black man on a deserted street late at night, and because if you prime people with traditionally white versus traditionally black names they will answer questions differently in psychology experiments. It is no shame to be racist as long as you admit that you are racist and you try your best to resist your racism. Everyone knows this.

Donald Sterling is racist. We know this because he made a racist comment in the privacy of his own home. As a result, he was fined $2.5 million, banned for life from an industry he’s been in for thirty-five years, banned from ever going to basketball games, forced to sell his property against his will, publicly condmened by everyone from the President of the United States on down, denounced in every media outlet from the national news to the Podunk Herald-Tribune, and got people all over the Internet gloating about how pleased they are that he will die soon. We know he deserved this, because people who argue he didn’t deserve this were also fired from their jobs. He deserved it because he was racist. Everyone knows this.

So.

Everybody is racist.

And racist people deserve to lose everything they have and be hated by everyone.

This seems like it might present a problem.
Now we're doing it against with "nazi". We're phrasing the term in an overly-broad way, then trying to invoke serious consequences that may be entirely justified towards an exceedingly narrow and dangerous group. Trying to generalize "nazis" to "all racists" is a bit like trying to generalize from "Al Qaeda" to "All muslims living in Saudi Arabia", or "The Bundys currently occupying government land" to "All SovCit douchefucks". We shoot at one of those groups, and not at the other, despite the fact that the other still holds some pretty abhorrent beliefs, because that specific group has earned the shit they get.

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Your argument makes the most sense if you are optimistic about racism having little, or even fading, influence in America, and considering the controversies of the past few years, and who's in the White House, I'd say optimism isn't universally shared.
By all means, let's fight racism. But if I had to name the most counterproductive way to do this, it would probably involve calling every person you disagree with politically a nazi, ensuring that those who might otherwise be fully against nazis and in favor of going after nazis have to worry about being labeled nazis themselves. Latro is not a nazi. octopus is not a nazi. Let's not make "nazi" the next "racist".
  #17  
Old 08-22-2017, 04:45 AM
Evan Drake Evan Drake is offline
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Donald Sterling is racist. We know this because he made a racist comment in the privacy of his own home. As a result, he was fined $2.5 million, banned for life from an industry he’s been in for thirty-five years, banned from ever going to basketball games, forced to sell his property against his will, publicly condmened by everyone from the President of the United States on down, denounced in every media outlet from the national news to the Podunk Herald-Tribune, and got people all over the Internet gloating about how pleased they are that he will die soon. We know he deserved this, because people who argue he didn’t deserve this were also fired from their jobs. He deserved it because he was racist. Everyone knows this.

I was shocked, shocked that an elderly Jewish billionaire brought up in 1950s Chicago, could be the least bit prejudiced against black people.


Speaking of which, I find it cringingly awful when Bannon who worked respectfully for Jewish people --- including the man he worshipped, Andrew Breitbart --- is called a nazi. I can't think of any belief we have in common, but considering what the nazis actually did it just seems mental hysterics to use it as a label against a nattering blowhard.


'Fascist' has long lost all meaning, looks like 'Nazi' is going the same way.
  #18  
Old 08-22-2017, 10:49 AM
GIGObuster GIGObuster is offline
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Now we're doing it against with "nazi". We're phrasing the term in an overly-broad way, then trying to invoke serious consequences that may be entirely justified towards an exceedingly narrow and dangerous group. Trying to generalize "nazis" to "all racists" is a bit like trying to generalize from "Al Qaeda" to "All muslims living in Saudi Arabia", or "The Bundys currently occupying government land" to "All SovCit douchefucks". We shoot at one of those groups, and not at the other, despite the fact that the other still holds some pretty abhorrent beliefs, because that specific group has earned the shit they get.

By all means, let's fight racism. But if I had to name the most counterproductive way to do this, it would probably involve calling every person you disagree with politically a nazi, ensuring that those who might otherwise be fully against nazis and in favor of going after nazis have to worry about being labeled nazis themselves. Latro is not a nazi. octopus is not a nazi. Let's not make "nazi" the next "racist".
IMHO in other circumstances you would be correct, but in this recent unpleasantness the Nazis were the ones that decided what hill to die for and how to generalize.

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics...sville/536928/
Quote:
The “Unite the Right” rally in Charlottesville was ostensibly about protecting a statue of Robert E. Lee. It was about asserting the legitimacy of “white culture” and white supremacy, and defending the legacy of the Confederacy.

So why did the demonstrators chant anti-Semitic lines like “Jews will not replace us”?

The demonstration was suffused with anti-black racism, but also with anti-Semitism.
Of course, as I said, I see a lot of what you say that makes sense; but I have to note too at how conservatives in this message board also have pressed to almost pathological levels the point of "just talking about freedom of speech" while avoiding the elephant in the room caused by the other fact that the Nazis are getting a lot of support from the, while usually also omitting that people were seriously hurt and even killed by the Nazis in the recent attempt to "Unite the right".

Last edited by GIGObuster; 08-22-2017 at 10:51 AM.
  #19  
Old 08-22-2017, 10:54 AM
BigT BigT is offline
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The word Nazi means white supremacist now. It has for decades. There is nothing overly broad about this--Aryan supremacy evolved into a less specific white supremacy. No one is using Nazi to mean "person I don't like." You're doing their propaganda for them by saying this.

Yes, if you want to get technical, you can differentiate between those who are proud of Hitler (neo-Nazis) and those who aren't (KKK/generic white supremacy). But there's no actual difference in the severity of their racism towards non-whites. It makes perfect sense to lump them all together in this context.

No, punching a Nazi isn't necessarily the best way to deal with them. It gives them a legitimate grievance and allows sympathizers to hide their sympathy as freedom of speech and anti-violence advocacy. Still, I can't be too upset about it, because we can easily see through these disguises from context, and I can't really get upset when an evil person gets hurt, as long as the person who hurt them is willing to accept the consequences.

Still, given that our current President relied heavily on a Nazi base to the point that he can't publicly condemn them, but act as if "both sides" are equal when a goddamned fucking Nazi commits terrorism--it's pretty clear that Nazis have an outsized level of influence in our country right now. Pretending that Nazis aren't a threat right now is ridiculous. They've come out of the woodworks, where they used to were thoroughly depowered.

Yes, protesters dwarf the Nazis. That means we're fighting them. That's a good thing. Too bad that fight is also against our President. Too bad we had to do this to get the other Nazi sympathizers out of power, like Bannon.

Bannon champions the alt-right. That a euphemism for white supremacy, which fits the definition usually used for Nazi. A KKK member can also work with black people--doesn't make them not KKK. When you run a website that pushes Jewish and anti-white conspiracies, it seems perfectly accurate to label you a Nazi.

I will continue to use the common shorthand for white supremacists, including neo-Nazis. And, while I don't think punching them is necessarily the best course of action, I'm not going to get upset when they get punched, as they are equally vile. They are the far end of racism.

Firing them? I'm all for that. If they make an openly extremely racist statement, then it's basically the duty of those who have power over him to punish him, lest they enable him. It's bad for the PR of the company, and it's bad for humanity in general for racism to go unpunished. And, if you argue that he shouldn't be fired for it, you're choosing to put your ass on the line.

I would love if all the Nazi protesters similarly became unemployed. There should be consequences for bad speech. It's a non-violent solution, yet the same people who get upset about violence are upset about this, suggesting that they just think that Nazis should not have any consequences.

Seeing how many Nazis are quite young, recruited from disaffected youth, it's a good idea to make sure the consequences are dire. Stop this 4chan bullshit where nothing really matters. You want to support white supremacy? Pay the societal cost.

Sorry, I can't get on board this rant. Getting mad at people being mean to Nazis or proud racists isn't something I can do. Getting mad because people use language the way it has been used for a while is not something I can do. Combining the two is definitely not something I can do.
  #20  
Old 08-22-2017, 10:58 AM
asahi asahi is offline
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Neither?
  #21  
Old 08-22-2017, 11:09 AM
Evan Drake Evan Drake is offline
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I would love if all the Nazi protesters similarly became unemployed.

Worked great in the 1920s.
  #22  
Old 08-22-2017, 11:15 AM
Chimera Chimera is offline
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Worked great in the 1920s.
I dunno, if someone is a nazi and believes that all of their enemies and non-white people should be exterminated, how do you trust that person to deal fairly with the people they hate? How do you trust a Nazi cook or server to deal fairly with the handicapped, black and gay customers? How do you trust a Nazi or White Supremacist social worker to work fairly with minorities? How do you trust a Nazi HR person or manager to fairly manage a diverse workforce?

Their very beliefs and the fact that they're willing to put themselves out in public - showing their faces - to announce that they hold these odious beliefs is what renders them unemployable in far too many situations. It is a natural consequence.
  #23  
Old 08-22-2017, 11:21 AM
GIGObuster GIGObuster is offline
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Worked great in the 1920s.
Worked great in America.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_American_Bund

Although a lot had to do with the fact that Nazis could not help to steal from their businesses and their draft dodging made them even more unpopular in the USA.

So, just like before: Don't be a sucker. Even when some hard conservatives are not Nazis they are giving them too much oxygen right now.

Last edited by GIGObuster; 08-22-2017 at 11:21 AM.
  #24  
Old 08-22-2017, 11:25 AM
Jackmannii Jackmannii is online now
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Call him a Nazi, he won't even frown,
"Ha, Nazi, Schmazi," says Wernher von Braun.
  #25  
Old 08-22-2017, 11:27 AM
GIGObuster GIGObuster is offline
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Uh, I missed someone in the previous post.

"Of course, as I said, I see a lot of what you say that makes sense; but I have to note too at how conservatives in this message board also have pressed to almost pathological levels the point of "just talking about freedom of speech" while avoiding the elephant in the room caused by the other fact that the Nazis are getting a lot of support from the president, while usually also omitting that people were seriously hurt and even killed by the Nazis in the recent attempt to "Unite the right".

Last edited by GIGObuster; 08-22-2017 at 11:32 AM.
  #26  
Old 08-22-2017, 12:30 PM
SteveG1 SteveG1 is offline
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... even killed by the Nazis in the recent attempt to "Unite the right".
Freedom of expression. If you don't like it, you are a bigot. or something. Uh huh.

Anyone who doesn't like Nazis is a bigot or something.
  #27  
Old 08-22-2017, 01:56 PM
Budget Player Cadet Budget Player Cadet is online now
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The word Nazi means white supremacist now. It has for decades.
Well then my complaints are entirely too late, and you must inform everyone who missed the memo on this. Cuz I missed the memo. I thought "nazi" referred to people who agreed with the NSDAP and were in favor of genocide and violence against "lesser races".

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No one is using Nazi to mean "person I don't like." You're doing their propaganda for them by saying this.
I literally cited one such example in my first post. Here's another, talking about James Damore. Here's a piece about Charles Murray.

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Yes, if you want to get technical, you can differentiate between those who are proud of Hitler (neo-Nazis) and those who aren't (KKK/generic white supremacy). But there's no actual difference in the severity of their racism towards non-whites.
Because there is no real difference between the guys who love the holocaust and want more where that came from, the guys who believe that we're better off with a monoracial or monocultural state, and the guys who think black people are inferior and want to fix this with subsidies, better education, or universal basic income. Again, it's easy to say "this isn't happening", but it is happening.

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Still, given that our current President relied heavily on a Nazi base
Oh for fuck's sake. The president relied heavily on a Nazi base? "Unite the Right" was the biggest nazi gathering in decades. There was something like 500-1000 nazis there. By comparison, the women's march gathered upwards of 3 million people to protest Trump.

Let's work with some made-up numbers here and see where our intuitions lead us.

Let's assume for the moment that neo-nazis are only as willing to march for their cause as anti-Trumpers, and that there are similar proportions in play, so about 1 out of 50 people devoted to the cause went to march. This is very charitable, as more extreme and out-there ideologies are more likely to have more devoted followers. Let's assume that because there were women's marches in all 50 states, Unite the Right would have had 50x as many people had it gone national. This is incredibly overcharitable.

Plug these figures in, and we find that the "nazi base" in the USA is, at most, about 1000*50*50 = 2.5 million people. That's your upper limit while being almost absurdly charitable. It's also not too far off the numbers Scott Alexander found when he tried to estimate it based on polling data. Not an order of magnitude, anyways.

But that's not nazis and white supremacists. That's everyone who might hold specific racist attitudes like "the civil rights act was bad" or "I wouldn't vote for a black president" or "I wouldn't move in next to black people". And this is akin to the number of people who believe that the government is run by lizard people. It's almost an order of magnitude less than the people who believe that vaccines cause autism. Trump would have been better off banking his hopes on the chemtrails crowd - "I will crack down on illegal chemtrail spraying" would have been one hell of a thing to hear at a campaign rally, huh?

One hell of a base.


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to the point that he can't publicly condemn them, but act as if "both sides" are equal when a goddamned fucking Nazi commits terrorism--it's pretty clear that Nazis have an outsized level of influence in our country right now.
Yeah, okay, I'll admit, that's weird. Don't really have a good answer for it.

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Pretending that Nazis aren't a threat right now is ridiculous. They've come out of the woodworks, where they used to were thoroughly depowered.
Friendly reminder: the biggest Nazi rally possibly in US history just happened and you could fit all of them in the local Cineplex. This is not an operational threat.
  #28  
Old 08-22-2017, 02:22 PM
Chimera Chimera is offline
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http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/28-ap...ry?id=49334079

"As noted, 9 percent overall call it acceptable to hold neo-Nazi or white supremacist views, while 83 percent call this unacceptable, leaving 8 percent with no opinion. Seventy-two percent feel strongly that it’s unacceptable."

If we figure 9% (that will admit it in a poll), we have 29 million Americans thinking neo-Nazis and White Supremacists are A-ok.

Last edited by Chimera; 08-22-2017 at 02:24 PM.
  #29  
Old 08-22-2017, 06:02 PM
Okrahoma Okrahoma is offline
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Did you know that the solar eclipse has something to do with racism?

Now you know. Everything is racist. Even the Moon. Well maybe it's not racist. But it is "relaying a message". A racist message. With the eclipse.
  #31  
Old 08-23-2017, 07:18 AM
DrFidelius DrFidelius is offline
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Ale: those links don't work for me. What's the url of the articles?
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  #32  
Old 08-23-2017, 02:32 PM
Ale Ale is offline
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Originally Posted by DrFidelius View Post
Ale: those links don't work for me. What's the url of the articles?
Odd, it works fine for me, the URL is https://steemit.com/news/@lukewearec...led-at-the-g20
  #33  
Old 08-23-2017, 02:49 PM
DrFidelius DrFidelius is offline
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Sorry! This page doesn't exist.

Not to worry. You can head back to our homepage, or check out some great posts.

new postshot poststrending postspromoted postsactive posts
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  #34  
Old 08-23-2017, 02:50 PM
DrFidelius DrFidelius is offline
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Do I need to send them some Bit coins to read their content?
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  #35  
Old 08-23-2017, 03:16 PM
Chimera Chimera is offline
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Nazis call off planned cook-out in Eau Claire, Wisconsin citing threats.

http://www.wbay.com/content/news/Neo...441524573.html

Counter-protests were already in the works.

"Eau Claire City Attorney Stephen Nick and Councilwoman Kate Beaton said the city is pleased that the event has been called off."
  #36  
Old 08-24-2017, 09:38 AM
blindboyard blindboyard is offline
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Dan Harmon, the Community guy, thinks 29% of the American population are Nazis, and that Nazis ought to be killed. And that his beard suits him. He is wrong about all of these things.
  #37  
Old 08-24-2017, 10:47 AM
Evan Drake Evan Drake is offline
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'Undertaker's News' ought to be thrilled.
  #38  
Old 08-24-2017, 11:33 AM
Gyrate Gyrate is online now
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Originally Posted by asahi View Post
Neither?
Yes, that'd be my preferred option too. I don't like Nazis, but I don't remotely think everyone I don't like is a Nazi. And I'm not a fan of pre-emptive punching, although punching a Nazi in self-defense is permissible.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Okrahoma View Post
Did you know that the solar eclipse has something to do with racism?

Now you know. Everything is racist. Even the Moon. Well maybe it's not racist. But it is "relaying a message". A racist message. With the eclipse.
Did you know that when someone repeatedly posts entirely unrelated material into discussions about the Charlottesville rally and neo-Nazis in America it give the strong impression that the person is doing so in order to deflect criticism of white supremacist marchers? Now you know.

And you know what else is racist? Racism. But hey - some people think eclipses are racist, some people think calling for the systematic persecution and death of people of other races is racist. It's all the same, right?
  #39  
Old 08-30-2017, 05:48 PM
Budget Player Cadet Budget Player Cadet is online now
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Originally Posted by SteveG1 View Post
Of course he is. He's a Nazi sympathizer.


Occam's Razor.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Muffin View Post
Steophan, does this mean that we should refer to you as a neo-nazi sympathizer rather than a nazi sympathizer?

I'd rather keep it simple by leaving it at nazi piece of shit, 'cause I really don't care a fig about your personal sensibilities as to the different flavours of your ilk.
In response to a post where Steophan was defending himself and arguing that he would be in the camps:

Quote:
Originally Posted by kayaker View Post
On whose side?


Stop. Ruining. The. Word. Nazi.

Steophan is a douchebag. A boot-licking brown-noser. A racially insensitive douche-canoe.

He is not a fucking nazi.

God damn. Stop calling everyone you disagree with a nazi!
  #40  
Old 08-30-2017, 06:06 PM
SteveG1 SteveG1 is offline
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Originally Posted by Budget Player Cadet View Post
In response to a post where Steophan was defending himself and arguing that he would be in the camps:





Stop. Ruining. The. Word. Nazi.

Steophan is a douchebag. A boot-licking brown-noser. A racially insensitive douche-canoe.

He is not a fucking nazi.

God damn. Stop calling everyone you disagree with a nazi!
I called him a sympathizer.




Not that I could disagree with THE REST of your assessment

Last edited by SteveG1; 08-30-2017 at 06:07 PM.
  #41  
Old 08-30-2017, 06:21 PM
Leaper Leaper is offline
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I have seen actual hardcore socialist-progressives say flat out that protecting the (to them) so-called free speech rights of Nazis is collaborating with them and makes you morally responsible for the death in Charlottesville.

Nothing I have read or been linked to on this board from anyone comes even close.
  #42  
Old 08-30-2017, 07:48 PM
Steophan Steophan is offline
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Originally Posted by Budget Player Cadet View Post
Steophan is a douchebag. A boot-licking brown-noser. A racially insensitive douche-canoe.

He is not a fucking nazi.
Thankyou.
  #43  
Old 08-31-2017, 01:41 PM
SteveG1 SteveG1 is offline
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I have seen actual hardcore socialist-progressives say flat out that protecting the (to them) so-called free speech rights of Nazis is collaborating with them and makes you morally responsible for the death in Charlottesville.

Nothing I have read or been linked to on this board from anyone comes even close.
Free speech does not involve guns, iron pipes, and cars. It does not include murder.
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Old 08-31-2017, 04:13 PM
Crazy Canuck Crazy Canuck is offline
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God damn. Stop calling everyone you disagree with a nazi!
Did you actually read the thread you are quoting there? You are factually incorrect. No one in that thread called Stephan a Nazi. Multiple people, myself included, called him a nazi sympathizer.

And now I'm thinking the same about you.
  #45  
Old 08-31-2017, 04:24 PM
octopus octopus is offline
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Did you actually read the thread you are quoting there? You are factually incorrect. No one in that thread called Stephan a Nazi. Multiple people, myself included, called him a nazi sympathizer.

And now I'm thinking the same about you.
Lol. You so simple you are missing the irony.
  #46  
Old 08-31-2017, 04:40 PM
Chimera Chimera is offline
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C'mon, didn't you know BPC set up this thread just to declare himself the final arbiter in who is allowed to be called a Nazi and who isn't allowed to call people that?

The rule of the outraged in play here. He declares that he's outraged that people are using these terms and sets himself up as the 'high ground' who alone is allowed to make that call.

Its just totally outrageous for all of us not to accept his authority here!
  #47  
Old 08-31-2017, 04:44 PM
Crazy Canuck Crazy Canuck is offline
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Lol. You so simple you are missing the irony.
You so simple? You love me long time too?
  #48  
Old 09-01-2017, 10:34 PM
Budget Player Cadet Budget Player Cadet is online now
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Did you actually read the thread you are quoting there? You are factually incorrect. No one in that thread called Stephan a Nazi. Multiple people, myself included, called him a nazi sympathizer.

And now I'm thinking the same about you.
Jesus, what a kind and gentle judgment! If you'd read damn near anything I posted ever you might realize how fucking stupid this statement is, but I guess you're not going to bother. Plus, being called a nazi sympathizer for claiming that we shouldn't suspend a group's basic human rights then make that group so broad as to be meaningless is totally better than being called a nazi.

Seriously, what the fuck is wrong with you people? Have you all lost your goddamn minds, or am I the only one not in on the joke?
  #49  
Old 09-02-2017, 12:57 AM
octopus octopus is offline
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Jesus, what a kind and gentle judgment! If you'd read damn near anything I posted ever you might realize how fucking stupid this statement is, but I guess you're not going to bother. Plus, being called a nazi sympathizer for claiming that we shouldn't suspend a group's basic human rights then make that group so broad as to be meaningless is totally better than being called a nazi.

Seriously, what the fuck is wrong with you people? Have you all lost your goddamn minds, or am I the only one not in on the joke?
Lol. Welcome to my exasperation. I can only conclude these folks lack the intellectual capacity to distinguish between advocating for rights and advocating a specific point of view. Or, they do know the difference yet feel that there is a greater agenda served by dishonestly blurring the difference and personally attacking those who maintain that there is a difference.

The lunacy is actually worrisome for the future of the republic.

Last edited by octopus; 09-02-2017 at 12:57 AM.
  #50  
Old 09-02-2017, 11:54 AM
SteveG1 SteveG1 is offline
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Well then my complaints are entirely too late, and you must inform everyone who missed the memo on this. Cuz I missed the memo. I thought "nazi" referred to people who agreed with the NSDAP and were in favor of genocide and violence against "lesser races".



I literally cited one such example in my first post. Here's another, talking about James Damore. Here's a piece about Charles Murray.



Because there is no real difference between the guys who love the holocaust and want more where that came from, the guys who believe that we're better off with a monoracial or monocultural state, and the guys who think black people are inferior and want to fix this with subsidies, better education, or universal basic income. Again, it's easy to say "this isn't happening", but it is happening.



Oh for fuck's sake. The president relied heavily on a Nazi base? "Unite the Right" was the biggest nazi gathering in decades. There was something like 500-1000 nazis there. By comparison, the women's march gathered upwards of 3 million people to protest Trump.

Let's work with some made-up numbers here and see where our intuitions lead us.

Let's assume for the moment that neo-nazis are only as willing to march for their cause as anti-Trumpers, and that there are similar proportions in play, so about 1 out of 50 people devoted to the cause went to march. This is very charitable, as more extreme and out-there ideologies are more likely to have more devoted followers. Let's assume that because there were women's marches in all 50 states, Unite the Right would have had 50x as many people had it gone national. This is incredibly overcharitable.

Plug these figures in, and we find that the "nazi base" in the USA is, at most, about 1000*50*50 = 2.5 million people. That's your upper limit while being almost absurdly charitable. It's also not too far off the numbers Scott Alexander found when he tried to estimate it based on polling data. Not an order of magnitude, anyways.

But that's not nazis and white supremacists. That's everyone who might hold specific racist attitudes like "the civil rights act was bad" or "I wouldn't vote for a black president" or "I wouldn't move in next to black people". And this is akin to the number of people who believe that the government is run by lizard people. It's almost an order of magnitude less than the people who believe that vaccines cause autism. Trump would have been better off banking his hopes on the chemtrails crowd - "I will crack down on illegal chemtrail spraying" would have been one hell of a thing to hear at a campaign rally, huh?

One hell of a base.




Yeah, okay, I'll admit, that's weird. Don't really have a good answer for it.



Friendly reminder: the biggest Nazi rally possibly in US history just happened and you could fit all of them in the local Cineplex. This is not an operational threat.
If you're talking about Charlottesville, people were seriously injured, even killed. By people who would love to do it again. How is that not a threat?
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