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Old 10-03-2017, 05:31 PM
Jennshark Jennshark is offline
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Older TV shows: How are they squished . . .

. . . into shorter run times? ISTM there were far fewer commercials in the '70s and '80s and shows had longer run times.

Inquiring mind(s) on a Love Boat and Policewoman binge want to know. So far as I can tell opening/closing credits and scenes aren't trimmed, but there are the usual million commercials jammed into the hour.

FYI: Angie is undercover as an exotic dancer in this episode -- ROWRR! 😈
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Old 10-03-2017, 05:40 PM
kunilou kunilou is offline
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The most reliable way is to trim scenes. It's really easy to spot in many older sitcoms because of the setup-punchline format, then you realize someone cut out the setup and there's a punchline with no context. You say you couldn't tell that scenes were trimmed, but I'll bet if you compared the shows minute-by-minute with the originals, you'd find dialog dropped, reaction shots eliminated, etc.

There's also a technological trick called time compression. I cut the time of a recorded speech by more than 10% by simply compressing the speaker's pauses (between words and sentences) by 50%.

Last edited by kunilou; 10-03-2017 at 05:42 PM.
  #3  
Old 10-03-2017, 06:38 PM
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Originally Posted by kunilou View Post
The most reliable way is to trim scenes. It's really easy to spot in many older sitcoms because of the setup-punchline format, then you realize someone cut out the setup and there's a punchline with no context. You say you couldn't tell that scenes were trimmed, but I'll bet if you compared the shows minute-by-minute with the originals, you'd find dialog dropped, reaction shots eliminated, etc.
Sadly, The Andy Griffith Show has really suffered this treatment. Some of the jokes have been really butchered or just eliminated.
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Old 10-03-2017, 06:44 PM
The Other Waldo Pepper The Other Waldo Pepper is offline
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Sometimes it's sped-up, to where you can hear a difference in the voices.
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Old 10-03-2017, 06:47 PM
Skywatcher Skywatcher is offline
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Originally Posted by Jennshark View Post
So far as I can tell opening/closing credits and scenes aren't trimmed, but there are the usual million commercials jammed into the hour.
Stings (e.g.: the final scene in any "M*A*S*H" episode) are often eliminated.
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Old 10-03-2017, 06:50 PM
Gatopescado Gatopescado is online now
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They also play the final credits squished into a box on the bottom of the screen while the opening credits to the next episode is playing above.

Thank God for the DVR!
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Old 10-03-2017, 06:54 PM
DooWahDiddy DooWahDiddy is online now
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Originally Posted by Jennshark View Post
ISTM there were far fewer commercials in the '70s and '80s and shows had longer run times.
You see the same thing even on newer shows, once they reach syndication. I know every Seinfeld like the back of my hand, but sometimes when I watch an episode on Crackle I'll hear a line or two that I didn't remember, and then I'll realize it's because I'm so used to the trimmed version. It's like hearing whole new material!
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Old 10-03-2017, 06:55 PM
Just Asking Questions Just Asking Questions is offline
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I was watching my favorite Airwolf episode on MeTV (I think) and about 10 minutes in, I noticed a set up for a scene coming later was missing., So I got up off the couch, got the DVD, started watching from the beginning (missing scene returned!) and still got done at the same time.

Hogan's Heroes are butchered as well. I try to only watch them on DVD, but sometimes at 9:00 you're too lazy to go put a disc in.

Law and Order puts the credits over the last scene, and speeds up the theme music by a lot. I call it the disco version.
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Old 10-03-2017, 06:57 PM
Dewey Finn Dewey Finn is offline
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Originally Posted by Gatopescado View Post
They also play the final credits squished into a box on the bottom of the screen while the opening credits to the next episode is playing above.!
I've also seen where the closing credits are run much faster than on the original broadcast.
  #10  
Old 10-03-2017, 07:55 PM
mixdenny mixdenny is online now
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Originally Posted by DooWahDiddy View Post
I know every Seinfeld like the back of my hand, but sometimes when I watch an episode on Crackle I'll hear a line or two that I didn't remember, and then I'll realize it's because I'm so used to the trimmed version. It's like hearing whole new material!
I was the same, except I saw most of them in the original run, so I would occasionally spot a dropped sentence. The one that comes to mind is Elaine complaining about going to Hell because of David Puddy. The line dropped in syndication was "...and the heat, my God, the heat!"

Dennis
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Old 10-03-2017, 08:29 PM
terentii terentii is online now
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Any throwaway scene that doesn't advance the plot is likely to be dropped. There was a great one in Cheers! where Rebecca actually held a lit cigarette inside her mouth to keep Sam from finding out she'd started smoking again. I saw it when the episode was originally aired, and never since.

In the abovementioned Hogan's Heroes, there was a scene in the episode with the heavy water where Carter tasted a sample to see if it really was water. Again, I saw it when it was first aired, and never since.

These are the first two examples that came to my mind. Star Trek was, of course, notorious for this sort of thing when it first went into syndication. Back then, it was film cutters at local TV stations who did the deed. The clips they were throwing into the trash sometimes got recycled as slides rescued by fans (usually young females who had ingratiated themselves with the film cutters). The clips were often sold on a clandestine market and started turning up at Star Trek conventions in the early '70s. (Remember, this was long before there was an Internet!)
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Last edited by terentii; 10-03-2017 at 08:30 PM.
  #12  
Old 10-03-2017, 08:46 PM
terentii terentii is online now
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Originally Posted by mixdenny View Post
I was the same, except I saw most of them in the original run, so I would occasionally spot a dropped sentence. The one that comes to mind is Elaine complaining about going to Hell because of David Puddy. The line dropped in syndication was "...and the heat, my God, the heat!"
My candidate for the best dropped line comes from the penultimate episode of Frasier. There's a crisis at Martin and Ronnie's wedding, and an ice sculpture by "the famous artist Nudzac" is in danger of melting:

FRASIER: (Panicking) My Nudzac is dripping already!

ROZ: (Calmly) Relax, it's a dark suit. It's hardly noticeable.

Heard this once, never again.
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  #13  
Old 10-03-2017, 10:43 PM
DooWahDiddy DooWahDiddy is online now
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Originally Posted by mixdenny View Post
i was the same, except i saw most of them in the original run, so i would occasionally spot a dropped sentence. The one that comes to mind is elaine complaining about going to hell because of david puddy. The line dropped in syndication was "...and the heat, my god, the heat!"

dennis
You stole my jesus fish, didntcha?!?

Last edited by DooWahDiddy; 10-03-2017 at 10:43 PM.
  #14  
Old 10-03-2017, 11:16 PM
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They can also speed everything up but pitch down the sound. There are even side-by-side videos on YouTube. People just do things faster.

Here's an example from Seinfeld.

Personally, on laugh track sitcoms, I wouldn't be surprised if they sped up or shortened the laughter as an additional effect.
  #15  
Old 10-03-2017, 11:32 PM
RivkahChaya RivkahChaya is online now
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On One Day at a Time reruns on Logo, They speed up the theme song. It sounds terrible. They also cut the sax of the theme repeat in favor of running the theme of the next episode up in a compressed space over the HIGHLY compressed credits of the next episode. They probably gain three minutes. They also cut some scenes. Usually I miss them-- occasionally not. All in all, they probably compress a little too, and get about five minutes out of each episode. They are better than the butcher jobs METV did a few years ago. They'd leave out whole scenes that explained the motives of the characters in the next big (I mean extended) scene. Logo does have a way of putting commercials in weird places. I wonder if by makes the breaks shorter (and having more of them) they can charge more for the time. ie, "People will sit through it if they know it's only 1 or 2 commercials."
  #16  
Old 10-04-2017, 09:48 AM
ftg ftg is offline
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In the episode of WKRP where Johnny tells Herb that Jennifer is post-op trans, they cut out that bit, making a large chunk of the rest of the episode very bizarre.

The pilot of The Big Bang Theory has Leonard and Sheldon at a sperm bank. Also cut in reruns. Cutting Althea on TBBT is a criminal offense.
  #17  
Old 10-04-2017, 11:17 AM
Jennshark Jennshark is offline
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Wow! Fascinating replies! We didn't have a TV until I was 16, so I wouldn't necessarily notice if older shows had dropped a scene/line/were sped up. I'll need to eagle eye these things now.

There is so much expository in older shows that I can see where dialogue/establishing shots could certainly be cut for today's viewer. I was thinking about the vast differences between series like The Wire and Breaking Bad, which depend on the viewer "filling in the gaps," wherein earlier TV would have spent a lot time laying out explanations for viewers.
  #18  
Old 10-04-2017, 12:37 PM
Just Asking Questions Just Asking Questions is offline
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In the episode of WKRP where Johnny tells Herb that Jennifer is post-op trans, they cut out that bit, making a large chunk of the rest of the episode very bizarre.
WKRP is almost bad enough for it's own thread, though the cuts are mostly for music rights rather than time. The episodes were butchered for the very first syndication package, and even the most recent DVD set still has some stuff missing from the first run. With the music changes, some scenes don't make any sense at all.

"Hold me closer, fancy dresser."

"Do I hear dogs?" "I do."
  #19  
Old 10-04-2017, 12:42 PM
terentii terentii is online now
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I knew lines were cut from the scenes in TNG where Tasha Yar dies in Sickbay and Picard acts as advocate at the hearing to determine Data's status the second or third time I saw those episodes. I should watch the show more often nowadays to see if they've been restored.

In the original episode of Cheers! where Woody's parents want him to come back to Indiana, there was a scene after Diane's film Man-Child in Beantown where we saw him taking the phone call telling him to come home. This entire scene was dropped in the syndicated version, and there was a jump from the end of the film to Woody standing at the door with his bags, saying his goodbyes.
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  #20  
Old 10-04-2017, 12:51 PM
Scoobysnax Scoobysnax is offline
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A lot of risque jokes often get cut when an episode goes into syndication. This allows for more commercials and earlier showtimes.

One of the funniest moments from the Hank Scorpio episode of the Simpsons is cut from the reruns:

Homer is walking around the lair during an attack holding his coffee mug

Homer: Uh... you have any sugar around here?
Hank Scorpio: Sugar? Sure.
[takes two handfuls of sugar out of his pockets]
Hank Scorpio: There you go. Sorry it's not in packages. Want some cream?
[reaches back into his pockets]
Homer: Uh... I... no.
  #21  
Old 10-04-2017, 01:48 PM
Don Draper Don Draper is offline
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Originally Posted by Jennshark View Post
FYI: Angie is undercover as an exotic dancer in this episode -- ROWRR! 😈
Pepper. You mean Pepper.

And when was Pepper NOT undercover as an exotic dancer/streetwalker/call girl?
  #22  
Old 10-04-2017, 02:41 PM
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Creepiest dropped line is from Scrubs, the first episode.

Dr. Cox pushes an elderly woman up to JD in a waiting area and starts ranting about something. He finishes with "And if you push a stiff around a wheelchair, nobody will ask you to do anything." Dr. Cox then walks off and the syndicated version goes to commercial.

The aired and DVD version has the woman winking at JD and saying "I'm not really dead." One version is a joke with a patient who may have been playing along, the other has the unsuspecting viewer wondering if Dr. Cox really was pushing a corpse around the hospital.
  #23  
Old 10-04-2017, 02:49 PM
witzel witzel is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scoobysnax View Post
One of the funniest moments from the Hank Scorpio episode of the Simpsons is cut from the reruns:

Homer is walking around the lair during an attack holding his coffee mug

Homer: Uh... you have any sugar around here?
Hank Scorpio: Sugar? Sure.
[takes two handfuls of sugar out of his pockets]
Hank Scorpio: There you go. Sorry it's not in packages. Want some cream?
[reaches back into his pockets]
Homer: Uh... I... no.
You'll be pleased to know that joke is kept by FXX.

The old snpp.com, which has since been ported to simpsonsarchive.com, has episode summaries for every episode and most if not all scripts, including the bits that were cut for syndication clearly marked.
  #24  
Old 10-04-2017, 02:58 PM
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Cuts made in shows to fit local time slots are usually called "syndication cuts"; try searching with that term.

A lot of older shows have "sets" of syndicated episodes where the scenes cut out of a particular episode in one set are not the same as in another set. For example, on The Phil Silvers Show (aka Bilko), there is an episode where someone in the platoon is on The $64,000 Question. In one syndicated version, they leave in a scene at the beginning where a sailor answers a $64,000 question by reciting a poem, but cut out the scene where the soldier answers a $32,000 question; in another, the first one is cut while the second one airs.

Ask any reasonably diehard Simpsons fan about syndication cuts. Since the show is animated, it has a lot more individual scenes (usually just a few seconds long) than most live-action shows, so it is easy to remove a number of scenes to make the show fit without it seeming obvious that cuts had been made. Something done with later Simpsons episodes is, since animation is done at 24 frames per second but broadcast (in the USA, at least) at 30, every five frames (1/6 of a second) has a pair of duplicate frames; by removing the added frames and adjusting the audio, they can reduce it by quite a bit.
  #25  
Old 10-04-2017, 03:33 PM
The Vorlon The Vorlon is offline
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TV is not the only place where this happens. A long time ago, a movie theater far, far away had Superman on one screen, and Raiders on the other. Lobby the size of a postage stamp, six shows a day, 800 seats in the small house, 1600 in the big house. Envision having to dump, clean and fill in 15 minutes. It rained heavy in the month of Monsoon, and the ten PM show would sell out at 2 PM. The solution was in the older Norelco projectors, which had a transmission to go between film's normal 24 frames per second to Todd-AO's 30 frames per second. The projection speed would get sped up for the ending credits, with a bonus that the audience would march out of the theater faster to the sped up music.
  #26  
Old 10-04-2017, 04:10 PM
terentii terentii is online now
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Imagine the scene where Spock tries to take control of the Enterprise being cut from the TOS episode "Operation: Annihilate." That's what happened the first time I saw it (in syndication; I was a second-generation Trekfan). We came back from a commercial, and there was Spock lying in Sickbay, saying "I apologize for my earlier effort to take over the ship." Whoa! I thought. When did that happen? I missed something?!?
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  #27  
Old 10-04-2017, 09:15 PM
Mean Mr. Mustard Mean Mr. Mustard is offline
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I was watching Everybody Loves Raymond on TVLand and got annoyed at the length of the commercial breaks. So I checked the times via the DVR; one break had nearly six minutes of commercials.

I went back and added up the actual program times: something like 16 1/2 minutes for an episode.


mmm
  #28  
Old 10-05-2017, 03:29 PM
Jennshark Jennshark is offline
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Originally Posted by Don Draper View Post
Pepper. You mean Pepper.

And when was Pepper NOT undercover as an exotic dancer/streetwalker/call girl?
As with "Charlie's Angels" -- any excuse for some undercover work involving T and A.
  #29  
Old 10-05-2017, 04:51 PM
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One joke I remember being cut out in syndication was in the Simpsons Treehouse of Horror V. "Time and Punishment".
Terrified at the idea of being Re-Neducated, Homer is running from dogs and has the bright idea to pull some wieners from his pockets. "These wieners will give me the quick energy I need." And he eats the wieners to get a speed burst to escape the dogs That joke is cut from the syndicated version.
  #30  
Old 10-06-2017, 09:41 PM
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Since terentii brought up Star Trek, I remember the run on TechTV that included the footage that was normally cut. Every episode ended 10 minutes longer. They'd run at least three so they'd get realigned on a 30 minute boundary--though often it was a huge marathon of 6 or more episodes.

When G4 took over, they also ran commentary (from people calling in, even) on the bottom of the screen, which was my first exposure to this type of stuff. They called it Star Trek 2.0 (and TNG 2.0).

BTW, terentii: how do you say your name? I've always read it as teh-RENT-see, but I now notice it could be TERR-ent-too (Terent II).
  #31  
Old 10-06-2017, 09:52 PM
terentii terentii is online now
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BTW, terentii: how do you say your name? I've always read it as teh-RENT-see, but I now notice it could be TERR-ent-too (Terent II).
Teh-REN-tee. It's an old Russian name.
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  #32  
Old 10-07-2017, 04:58 AM
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The Simpsons had a unique case where occasionally the show would use an abbreviated opening in syndication (no chalkboard gag, no driving through town, and sometimes a very short couch gag) which would save about a minute of screentime. However this didn't happen on every episode.
  #33  
Old 10-07-2017, 12:32 PM
Bijou Drains Bijou Drains is offline
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I believe they cannot cut the credits out due to union rules . But I guess the rules don't cover how fast they are run.
  #34  
Old 10-21-2017, 01:46 PM
Siam Sam Siam Sam is offline
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Stings (e.g.: the final scene in any "M*A*S*H" episode) are often eliminated.
Happens a lot with Friends. They also occasionally will cut the opening scene before the opening song, which really gripes me.
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Old 10-21-2017, 02:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Bijou Drains View Post
I believe they cannot cut the credits out due to union rules . But I guess the rules don't cover how fast they are run.
Or how small they are. I like to watch credits, a habit developed long before you could look up the information online.
  #36  
Old 10-24-2017, 01:05 AM
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I seem to recall a passage stating (paraphrasing) that with just one minute cut from each episode of THE ANDY GRIFFITH SHOW- those minutes would add up to equal the length of ONE WHOLE SEASON!
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  #37  
Old 10-24-2017, 04:45 AM
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theres a episode of pokemon where in a plan to steal pokemon james drinks a potion and turns in to a girl physically he ujst had longer hair and boobs ......

4kids cut that scene out and any references to it ... the episode makes no sense .......
  #38  
Old 10-24-2017, 05:29 AM
Lorne Armstrong Lorne Armstrong is offline
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Originally Posted by Skywatcher View Post
Stings (e.g.: the final scene in any "M*A*S*H" episode) are often eliminated.
I never even knew that All In The Family had a short, epilogue scene at the end until I bought the DVDs. And I've been watching the show in syndication for as long as I can remember.
  #39  
Old 10-24-2017, 05:40 PM
Mean Mr. Mustard Mean Mr. Mustard is offline
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I seem to recall a passage stating (paraphrasing) that with just one minute cut from each episode of THE ANDY GRIFFITH SHOW- those minutes would add up to equal the length of ONE WHOLE SEASON!
Andy Griffith had 249 episodes. Chop one minute from each, that would give you 249 minutes (or 4 hours and 9 minutes).

249 / 21 minutes = 11.8 episodes. Andy usually had 28-32 episodes per season.

So, not quite. Maybe a third of a season.

But still semi-amazing.


mmm
  #40  
Old 10-25-2017, 09:31 AM
ftg ftg is offline
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... Chop one minute from each, ...
One minute? You think they cut a mere one minute from reruns? Esp. one that old?
  #41  
Old 10-25-2017, 10:01 AM
Darren Garrison Darren Garrison is offline
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One minute? You think they cut a mere one minute from reruns? Esp. one that old?
I used to have a memory of a scene of Andy and Barney singing a certain song that I never saw in later years of syndication and it turned out to be a scene that was cut. Here it is on Youtube, the cut material is the first 1:38 of the clip (the second part may be cut in some versions, too.)
  #42  
Old 10-25-2017, 10:23 AM
Darren Garrison Darren Garrison is offline
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theres a episode of pokemon where in a plan to steal pokemon james drinks a potion and turns in to a girl physically he ujst had longer hair and boobs ......

4kids cut that scene out and any references to it ... the episode makes no sense .......
That probably isn't "edited for time" but "edited for prudishness."

I'm not really into Pokemon but I remember watching Battle of the Planets as a child, and never knew until the internet era that the R2-D2 clone 7-zark-7 was invented for the US version to fill the gaps left behind by chopping out material that was acceptable for a Japanese kid's show but not an American one.

Last edited by Darren Garrison; 10-25-2017 at 10:27 AM.
  #43  
Old 10-25-2017, 10:03 PM
Mean Mr. Mustard Mean Mr. Mustard is offline
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Originally Posted by ftg View Post
One minute? You think they cut a mere one minute from reruns? Esp. one that old?
My post was in response to this post:

Quote:
Originally Posted by drmark7 View Post
I seem to recall a passage stating (paraphrasing) that with just one minute cut from each episode of THE ANDY GRIFFITH SHOW- those minutes would add up to equal the length of ONE WHOLE SEASON!
That is where the one minute came from.


mmm
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