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Old 10-16-2017, 08:26 PM
Mdcastle Mdcastle is offline
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Would it be possible to supply enough venison to make a regular fast foot item.

Like if Arbys wanted enough venison to have their sandwich available all year? Or even just in the fall season as a limited time item? If they committed to buying a large, long term supply of it could the supply chain materialize? Is it even legal for ordinary people to raise deer on a farm or ranch?
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Old 10-16-2017, 08:40 PM
puzzlegal puzzlegal is online now
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There is farmed venison. There's even an association of venison farmers:

http://www.nadefa.org/docs/north-ame...ed-venison.pdf

I believe that's the source of almost all the venison served at restaurants, (and lots of high-end restaurants have venison on the menu) as meat that's sold at restaurants needs to be USDA certified, and I don't think you can get USDA certification for wild-killed game animals.

Could it be a regular fast food item? I think deer are more skittish and less social than cattle or hogs, so it's more expensive to farm them -- you can't crowd a lot of them into a small pen. (Reindeer are more social. But reindeer meat tastes like dry tough gamy venison. I doubt there's much market for it outside of being a Scandinavian novelty food.) So probably not affordable as fast food, but it could be on the menu at a "family" restaurant, I imagine, if there was much demand for it.
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Old 10-16-2017, 11:56 PM
Stinky Pete Stinky Pete is offline
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Part of what makes animals worth farming for meat is how long it takes for them to reproduce.

For example: Rabbits can start breeding when they are around seven months old. Once they are mature enough to mate they can deliver a new litter of baby rabbits once every three months. There might be ten baby rabbits in a litter so you can see that their population can explode like crazy if nurtured so the baby rabbits all survive long enough to mate.

This is an animal you could use to feed a lot of people.

You might think elephants are so large that they would produce enough meat to feed a lot of people. That part is true. However elephants don't start breeding until they are around ten years old and the pregnancy is two years. And they will only give birth to one baby at a time.

They are just not practical for breeding for food.

Deer are closer to elephants than rabbits where comes to feeding the hungry masses.

You will find most animals that are practical to breed for food are the ones we are familiar with like chickens, pigs, and cows.

What Puzzlegal says is spot on correct. Deer are much harder to manage than the more social animals we now use as protein sources. They don't domesticate well and they fight amongst themselves too much.
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Old 10-17-2017, 12:15 AM
md2000 md2000 is offline
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I saw quite a number of deer in farms down in New Zealand - especially, IIRC the south island. I recall reading they were imported, to keep hunters amused in the days before the danger of alien species was truly understood. But - I haven't heard of any directed breeding programs intended to select for traits - docile, meat production, etc.
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Old 10-17-2017, 12:33 AM
Colibri Colibri is online now
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Originally Posted by Stinky Pete View Post
Deer are closer to elephants than rabbits where comes to feeding the hungry masses.
But they are closer to cattle than to either. The age of first breeding and number of offspring of white-tailed deer isn't much different from cattle.

It's not the reproductive rate that produces an obstacle to farming deer. As has been mentioned, it's the fact that they are more difficult to keep that's the problem.
  #6  
Old 10-17-2017, 01:57 AM
thelurkinghorror thelurkinghorror is offline
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Whoa, whoa, whoa? Arby's has a vension sandwich? Starting October 21? Is it every store?

We have bred cattle for centuries to be docile and take to a pen. Deer can be farmed it just takes a lot of work. Cattle are also (mostly) docile, at least compared to wild counterparts. Many deer are more difficult (and moose are terrifying).
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Originally Posted by Stinky Pete View Post
For example: Rabbits can start breeding when they are around seven months old. Once they are mature enough to mate they can deliver a new litter of baby rabbits once every three months. There might be ten baby rabbits in a litter so you can see that their population can explode like crazy if nurtured so the baby rabbits all survive long enough to mate.
Right, but rabbit isn't exactly a common table item in many western cultures. Which is a shame, as it's good, and venison is better.
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Originally Posted by md2000 View Post
I saw quite a number of deer in farms down in New Zealand - especially, IIRC the south island. I recall reading they were imported, to keep hunters amused in the days before the danger of alien species was truly understood. But - I haven't heard of any directed breeding programs intended to select for traits - docile, meat production, etc.
There aren't any native deer species, so they were probably red deer imported from Europe, which really took off in NZ. Slightly smaller than the American elk/wapiti (and quite a bit smaller than moose).
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Old 10-17-2017, 02:15 AM
Beckdawrek Beckdawrek is online now
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Goats, that is all I 'm gonna say.
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Old 10-17-2017, 02:55 AM
Mangetout Mangetout is online now
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Originally Posted by Beckdawrek View Post
Goats, that is all I 'm gonna say.
Baaah!

Goat meat is increasing in popularity here in the UK - to me, it's like a milder-tasting, leaner version of lamb (I expected goat to be more strongly flavoured than lamb).

I guess it's a bit like venison, but then, venison seems to be quite a variable product - I've had some that was really tender and mild - almost like a good cut of beef - and I've had it other times when it was incredibly dark and gamey.
  #9  
Old 10-17-2017, 03:19 AM
thelurkinghorror thelurkinghorror is offline
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Goat is good. Usually called birria in Mexican places, though sometimes it's sheep (probably lamb) or beef, you'd have to ask.
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Old 10-17-2017, 04:18 AM
Hector_St_Clare Hector_St_Clare is offline
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Originally Posted by Mangetout View Post
Baaah!

Goat meat is increasing in popularity here in the UK - to me, it's like a milder-tasting, leaner version of lamb (I expected goat to be more strongly flavoured than lamb).

I guess it's a bit like venison, but then, venison seems to be quite a variable product - I've had some that was really tender and mild - almost like a good cut of beef - and I've had it other times when it was incredibly dark and gamey.
I don't know if this is true, but I've been told venison flavor varies quite a bit depending on what the deer have been eating. (E.g. that if the deer are agricultural pests and eat mostly corn, soybeans etc. then the flesh will taste much milder and sweeter than deer from more forested areas).
  #11  
Old 10-17-2017, 04:20 AM
Hector_St_Clare Hector_St_Clare is offline
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Originally Posted by puzzlegal View Post
There is farmed venison. There's even an association of venison farmers:

http://www.nadefa.org/docs/north-ame...ed-venison.pdf

I believe that's the source of almost all the venison served at restaurants, (and lots of high-end restaurants have venison on the menu) as meat that's sold at restaurants needs to be USDA certified, and I don't think you can get USDA certification for wild-killed game animals.

Could it be a regular fast food item? I think deer are more skittish and less social than cattle or hogs, so it's more expensive to farm them -- you can't crowd a lot of them into a small pen. (Reindeer are more social. But reindeer meat tastes like dry tough gamy venison. I doubt there's much market for it outside of being a Scandinavian novelty food.) So probably not affordable as fast food, but it could be on the menu at a "family" restaurant, I imagine, if there was much demand for it.
I suspect you could make reindeer meat palatable. I wonder if there's increased warming of the Arctic and Antarctic regions (although I really hope we can come to our senses and do something to stop it) if we might see reindeer farming become more of a thing in places that are currently too cold for it.
  #12  
Old 10-17-2017, 04:24 AM
Hector_St_Clare Hector_St_Clare is offline
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Originally Posted by md2000 View Post
I saw quite a number of deer in farms down in New Zealand - especially, IIRC the south island. I recall reading they were imported, to keep hunters amused in the days before the danger of alien species was truly understood. But - I haven't heard of any directed breeding programs intended to select for traits - docile, meat production, etc.
As far as I know, New Zealand has no native mammals (certainly nothing carnivorous) so the deer probably really took well to the lack of predators.

Interestingly I've actually seen venison at restaurants quite a bit in England, never in the US (although I've lived in parts of the US where venison is quite commonly eaten, it's just that you have to hunt it yourself or get it from a friend who does). Maybe deer farming is more of a thing in England than in America.

Last edited by Hector_St_Clare; 10-17-2017 at 04:25 AM.
  #13  
Old 10-17-2017, 05:14 AM
thelurkinghorror thelurkinghorror is offline
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Originally Posted by Hector_St_Clare View Post
I don't know if this is true, but I've been told venison flavor varies quite a bit depending on what the deer have been eating. (E.g. that if the deer are agricultural pests and eat mostly corn, soybeans etc. then the flesh will taste much milder and sweeter than deer from more forested areas).
I've had deer that ate "bad" plants (sagebrush mostly) and it was still delicious. I'm thinking the "common knowledge" is a good part BS.

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Originally Posted by Hector_St_Clare View Post
As far as I know, New Zealand has no native mammals (certainly nothing carnivorous) so the deer probably really took well to the lack of predators.

Interestingly I've actually seen venison at restaurants quite a bit in England, never in the US (although I've lived in parts of the US where venison is quite commonly eaten, it's just that you have to hunt it yourself or get it from a friend who does). Maybe deer farming is more of a thing in England than in America.
You can find it in some fancy restaurants in the US, but especially in brewpub type places. Elk (Cervus canadensis) is a little more common on menus.
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Old 10-17-2017, 05:35 AM
MrDibble MrDibble is offline
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Ostrich is a good "venison" that can be (and is) farmed on commercial scales - it's available at most any supermarket here. Tastewise it falls somewhere between beef fillet and true venison. Ostriches actually have the best feed-to-weight ratio of any farmed land animal, so from an efficiency standpoint, farming them would make commercial sense for any food chain.

Last edited by MrDibble; 10-17-2017 at 05:36 AM.
  #15  
Old 10-17-2017, 05:53 AM
Ludovic Ludovic is online now
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Originally Posted by MrDibble View Post
Ostrich is a good "venison" that can be (and is) farmed on commercial scales - it's available at most any supermarket here. Tastewise it falls somewhere between beef fillet and true venison. Ostriches actually have the best feed-to-weight ratio of any farmed land animal, so from an efficiency standpoint, farming them would make commercial sense for any food chain.
Are there any ostrich-beef blended patties? I wonder if they might taste like bison. If mass-produced ostrich turns out to be cheap then I'd think a blend might be a fast food-able item considering fast food restaurants are already experienced in blending meat.
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Old 10-17-2017, 08:54 AM
LSLGuy LSLGuy is offline
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So the punch line seems to be that venison can be farmed on a mass scale. It isn't right now, but it could be. But even on a mass scale it wouldn't be close to matching the prices per butchered pound for the common meats. Because of the relative intractability of the animals with their current lack of domesticity.

Given that fast food is all about low cost with just a smidgen of room for promotional gimmickry, that says that even if venison became mass market fare the last place you're gonna find it is in fast food.

Trickledown economics applies: first the specialty restaurants, then the snooty ones, then mainstream, then Applebees, then finally Arby's.

Last edited by LSLGuy; 10-17-2017 at 08:57 AM.
  #17  
Old 10-17-2017, 09:15 AM
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Are there any ostrich-beef blended patties? I wonder if they might taste like bison. If mass-produced ostrich turns out to be cheap then I'd think a blend might be a fast food-able item considering fast food restaurants are already experienced in blending meat.
Why would you want to blend the ostrich with beef? 100% ostrich burgers are good. They do taste a bit like bison - it's a lean red meat taste, even if it comes from a bird.
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Old 10-17-2017, 09:16 AM
jz78817 jz78817 is offline
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deer are comparatively small and scrawny, too. one animal might get you 50 lbs of usable meat, while a steer can get you 400-600 lbs.

https://www.oda.state.ok.us/food/fs-cowweight.pdf

http://www.butcher-packer.com/index....roducts_id=331
  #19  
Old 10-17-2017, 09:32 AM
Bill Door Bill Door is online now
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Originally Posted by Hector_St_Clare View Post
I suspect you could make reindeer meat palatable. I wonder if there's increased warming of the Arctic and Antarctic regions (although I really hope we can come to our senses and do something to stop it) if we might see reindeer farming become more of a thing in places that are currently too cold for it.
I've eaten reindeer meat while I was in Finland and didn't find it objectionable at all. It wasn't considered exotic like a game animal, so I suspect it was farm raised. I think the main problem with raising whitetail deer for food is the fact that they can jump over a 12 foot fence.
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Old 10-17-2017, 09:42 AM
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My local Tesco sells venison steaks as well as ostrich; sold as low cholesterol and low fat. There is a deer farm on one of our favourite walks too.

Deer are harder to farm; they need higher fences because they can jump and they have to be killed in the field (by shooting) as transporting them live stresses them out and ruins the meat.
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Old 10-17-2017, 09:43 AM
TriPolar TriPolar is online now
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It's going to come down to the economics of raising deer and bringing them to market. A lot of people like venison, but it's not part of the standard meat list Americans are used to. Only an economic advantage is going to make them popular. If you can't move a Bambi-burger out of McDonalds for far less than the price of a cowburger it won't have an impact. Ostrich, buffalo, and plenty of other meats have attempted to break into the market without success.
  #22  
Old 10-17-2017, 09:47 AM
watchwolf49 watchwolf49 is offline
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Goats, that is all I 'm gonna say.
HAW HAW HAW HAW HAW HAW ... yeah that says it all ...

I've eaten a lot of goat in my time, comes as a by-product of a dairy herd ... so a couple of observations to be added to puzzlegal's comments: 27] Goats and deer aren't grazers like cattle or horses, they are browsers and that means they need a more varied diet ... they can survive on just grain and hay, but to be healthy they also need tree twigs, forb, ripe fruit and tin cans ... foodstuffs atypical to your normal farm operations; 41] We can fence in a cow with a few strands of barb wire four foot up off the ground ... for deer we'll need an eight foot tall Cyclone fence ... deer jump and they're very good at jumping ... and a cow can be kept happy inside a fenced pasture, however deer are wanderers so just keeping proper food about for them isn't enough to keep them in ... they'll just naturally want to move over to the next pastureland and keep going.

Finally ... and this is surely heresy ... venison ain't all that great tasting ... maybe it's because I've eaten so much goat but I really don't think venison is all that much better ... I think once the novelty wears off, people will go back to ordering beef burgers ... I say this based on the lack of menu offerings for venison in spite the abundance of deer, whereas I can think of three places here locally that serve elk-burgers as a permanent item and there's a limited supply of elk ... elk, beef, pork and chicken just tastes better ...

"Mr Natural, do goats really eat tin cans?"
"`... do goats really eat tin cans? ...`you fucking numbskull, pack your shit and shut up"
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Old 10-17-2017, 09:48 AM
Okrahoma Okrahoma is offline
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Originally Posted by Stinky Pete View Post
For example: Rabbits can start breeding when they are around seven months old. Once they are mature enough to mate they can deliver a new litter of baby rabbits once every three months. There might be ten baby rabbits in a litter so you can see that their population can explode like crazy if nurtured so the baby rabbits all survive long enough to mate.
So why are rabbits not a significant source of meat?
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Old 10-17-2017, 10:05 AM
kenobi 65 kenobi 65 is offline
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So why are rabbits not a significant source of meat?
They used to be, in the U.S., at least (it was apparently a relatively common source of protein during WWII), and you can still find it, particularly in specialty grocery stores.

But, as evidenced by what happened when Whole Foods tried to introduce it a few years ago, my guess is that enough Americans now see rabbits as "too cute to eat."

Last edited by kenobi 65; 10-17-2017 at 10:07 AM.
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Old 10-17-2017, 10:08 AM
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I've eaten reindeer meat while I was in Finland and didn't find it objectionable at all. It wasn't considered exotic like a game animal, so I suspect it was farm raised.
Yeah. Reindeer is a fine source of venison, no drier or tougher than other deer. Certain types of reindeer meats are cured quite dry and tough, but the idea is to carve paper-thin flakes off those. Freshly & quickly cooked reindeer meat is very juicy and tender.

No reindeer are farmed, per se. The domestic reindeer, which is the sole source of reindeer meat these days, spend their lives roaming the Lapland fjells, ear-marked and monitored, sure, but uncorralled (most of the time), finding their own food etc.
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Old 10-17-2017, 10:24 AM
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Quoth thelurkinghorror:

Many deer are more difficult (and moose are terrifying).
You misspelled "mse".
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Old 10-17-2017, 10:40 AM
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Seriously, moose ("a mse once bit my sister...") are F'ing huge. Yuge, I say. I recall passing an accident scene in the dead of winter in northern Ontario. An 18-wheeler was in the ditch and nearby was the carcass of the moose it hit. The dead animal, lying on its side, was 4 feet across the shoulders. Plus these things are irascible, especially during mting season - those antlers aren't for decoration... well, they are for decoration and for other more destructive purposes. Plus moose are semi-aquatic; they like to eat the crud growing in beaver-pond swamps.
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Old 10-17-2017, 10:43 AM
jz78817 jz78817 is offline
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the dangerous part about colliding with a mse is that they're basically 1,000 lbs of meat on stilts. run into one, you take out the legs and now have a half-ton ass coming through your windshield.
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Old 10-17-2017, 10:54 AM
puzzlegal puzzlegal is online now
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I had reindeer in Finland and Norway. It was common on menus in both. I tried it a couple of times. Maybe I just didn't like the way they prepared it, but it wasn't very good.

The staple protein in Finland seemed to be salmon. I was even served a salmon noodle soup. The salmon was uniformly delicious. (And I usually favor mammal meat.)
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Old 10-17-2017, 11:07 AM
MrDibble MrDibble is offline
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Originally Posted by Ludovic View Post
Are there any ostrich-beef blended patties?
Not that I've seen, just all-ostrich ones. But an ostrich-beef mince mix is a fairly common thing so making patties would be the next step.
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Originally Posted by Broomstick View Post
Why would you want to blend the ostrich with beef?
Ostrich by itself tends to be just a little too lean for a nice burger, IMO - I make my own mince with 80% ostrich and 20% pork belly for burgers.
  #31  
Old 10-17-2017, 11:08 AM
John Mace John Mace is online now
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As far as I know, New Zealand has no native mammals (certainly nothing carnivorous) so the deer probably really took well to the lack of predators.
There are a few bat species native to NZ. Flying has it's advantages.
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Old 10-17-2017, 11:17 AM
Orwell Orwell is offline
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They used to be, in the U.S., at least (it was apparently a relatively common source of protein during WWII), and you can still find it, particularly in specialty grocery stores.

But, as evidenced by what happened when Whole Foods tried to introduce it a few years ago, my guess is that enough Americans now see rabbits as "too cute to eat."
I think this is largely true. Partly due to the steady decline of rabbit hunting, which (at least where I live) is due to reduced habitat along with increased predation by hawks, coyotes, foxes, etc. When I was a kid, the first day of rabbit season was an annual special event, and we all saw and shot lots of rabbits. Now, when I go hunting, we are lucky to see a single bunny, even in places that have lots of brush and cover.

So, even among rural families, eating rabbits is largely a thing of the past. Add in the fact that fewer people are exposed to hunting at all, and if they are, they are likely deer and waterfowl hunters, not rabbit hunters. When I was young, eating rabbits was common for many families - though limited to fall hunting season. Now, I think my kids have eaten rabbit only once or twice, and I'd bet almost none of their friends have.

At least here in the US, we seem to have a pretty rigid divide between domesticated food animals (cattle, pigs, chickens and turkeys), game animals that are eaten by hunters but not by most people (deer, elk, wild turkeys, ducks, pheasants, etc.) and other animals that are seldom eaten by anyone on a large scale (farmed rabbits, farmed deer, goats, sheep, etc.). I think a lot has to do with ease of farming and resultant cost per pound. It's hard to spend more when pork, chicken and turkey is so inexpensive. Beef has gone up quite a bit in price, but is still somewhat affordable.
  #33  
Old 10-17-2017, 11:23 AM
kenobi 65 kenobi 65 is offline
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Originally Posted by Orwell View Post
So, even among rural families, eating rabbits is largely a thing of the past. Add in the fact that fewer people are exposed to hunting at all, and if they are, they are likely deer and waterfowl hunters, not rabbit hunters. When I was young, eating rabbits was common for many families - though limited to fall hunting season. Now, I think my kids have eaten rabbit only once or twice, and I'd bet almost none of their friends have.
I've never been a hunter -- I grew up in Wisconsin, where it's absolutely part of the culture (particularly deer hunting), and my father hunted both deer and birds, but I never got into it.

I'd be curious to learn to what extent small game hunting, as you describe, has declined in the U.S.

And, I think your other point is spot-on -- industrialized farming made certain proteins (beef, pork, chicken, and turkey) so inexpensive, and so widely available, in the U.S. over the past 50-60 years, that other proteins got left by the wayside.

Last edited by kenobi 65; 10-17-2017 at 11:24 AM.
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Old 10-17-2017, 11:31 AM
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I'd be curious to learn to what extent small game hunting, as you describe, has declined in the U.S.
Me, too. I can only speak from my own experience here in PA. I can tell you here that very few people hunt small game. They have expanded the deer season to cover many months (archery, muzzleloader, rifle), completely enveloping small game season. Most hunters here now primarily or solely hunt deer. Turkey hunting is fairly popular, too and wild turkeys have made a big comeback in numbers.

I always enjoyed small game hunting more, but I lost interest once I could hunt for hours and not see a single rabbit, grouse or pheasant.
  #35  
Old 10-17-2017, 11:33 AM
Ludovic Ludovic is online now
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Originally Posted by Orwell View Post
At least here in the US, we seem to have a pretty rigid divide between domesticated food animals (cattle, pigs, chickens and turkeys), game animals that are eaten by hunters but not by most people (deer, elk, wild turkeys, ducks, pheasants, etc.) and other animals that are seldom eaten by anyone on a large scale (farmed rabbits, farmed deer, goats, sheep, etc.). I think a lot has to do with ease of farming and resultant cost per pound. It's hard to spend more when pork, chicken and turkey is so inexpensive. Beef has gone up quite a bit in price, but is still somewhat affordable.
I'm not sure about sheep. I think the rigid divide is not so rigid and you have animals like sheep and bison in the middle, where they are expensive and relatively rare but not hard to find at all, versus the harder-to-find game animals and venison.
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Old 10-17-2017, 11:49 AM
kenobi 65 kenobi 65 is offline
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Me, too. I can only speak from my own experience here in PA. I can tell you here that very few people hunt small game. They have expanded the deer season to cover many months (archery, muzzleloader, rifle), completely enveloping small game season.
Interesting. I was curious about Wisconsin -- my recollection from when I was growing up, in the 1970s and 1980s, was that deer season was no longer than 2 weeks, and that there was a separate season for bowhunters earlier in the fall.

Looking it up now, I see that Wisconsin now has several additional deer hunting seasons: a period for disabled hunters, a "youth hunt," a muzzleloader season, and two "antlerless-only" periods.
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Old 10-17-2017, 11:57 AM
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Originally Posted by watchwolf49 View Post
HAW HAW HAW HAW HAW HAW ... yeah that says it all ...

I've eaten a lot of goat in my time, comes as a by-product of a dairy herd ... so a couple of observations to be added to puzzlegal's comments: 27] Goats and deer aren't grazers like cattle or horses, they are browsers and that means they need a more varied diet ... they can survive on just grain and hay, but to be healthy they also need tree twigs, forb, ripe fruit and tin cans ... foodstuffs atypical to your normal farm operations; 41] We can fence in a cow with a few strands of barb wire four foot up off the ground ... for deer we'll need an eight foot tall Cyclone fence ... deer jump and they're very good at jumping ... and a cow can be kept happy inside a fenced pasture, however deer are wanderers so just keeping proper food about for them isn't enough to keep them in ... they'll just naturally want to move over to the next pastureland and keep going.
I think for the reasons above, deer farming is very popular in Scotland, where you have vast swathes of mountainous forest land unsuitable to traditional grazing stock. It's a good way to make double use of woodland - for wood and venison.

My local park is divided between public park and deer park - it used to be the estate of a country house, with a mixture of grazing and and woodland, so it suits the farmed deer very well. (This is in England, for the record).

Venison is pretty popular in the UK - in restaurants and supermarkets.
  #38  
Old 10-17-2017, 12:05 PM
thelurkinghorror thelurkinghorror is offline
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Originally Posted by MrDibble View Post
Ostrich by itself tends to be just a little too lean for a nice burger, IMO - I make my own mince with 80% ostrich and 20% pork belly for burgers.
Same with deer. Venison burgers almost certainly have beef or pork fat mixed in.
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Originally Posted by Ludovic View Post
I'm not sure about sheep. I think the rigid divide is not so rigid and you have animals like sheep and bison in the middle, where they are expensive and relatively rare but not hard to find at all, versus the harder-to-find game animals and venison.
Yes, even Wal-Mart sells bison and lamb. Costs more than beef sometimes, but not hard to find. Rabbit and venison may show up at regular supermarkets sometimes, but it's still mostly a specialty item.
  #39  
Old 10-17-2017, 12:12 PM
Orwell Orwell is offline
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Originally Posted by Ludovic View Post
I'm not sure about sheep. I think the rigid divide is not so rigid and you have animals like sheep and bison in the middle, where they are expensive and relatively rare but not hard to find at all, versus the harder-to-find game animals and venison.
I don't disagree. Bison is definitely in the middle. There are a couple of bison farms near me, and you find bison on menus fairly often. I really don't see lamb/sheep very often at all - live, on menus or in meat coolers.
  #40  
Old 10-17-2017, 12:26 PM
md2000 md2000 is offline
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Originally Posted by Orwell View Post
I think this is largely true. Partly due to the steady decline of rabbit hunting, which (at least where I live) is due to reduced habitat along with increased predation by hawks, coyotes, foxes, etc. When I was a kid, the first day of rabbit season was an annual special event, and we all saw and shot lots of rabbits. ...
I saw a documentary on the cartoon channel once - it's hard to tell which day it is, duck season or rabbit season; and the rabbits can be very dangerous, you may shoot your own face or beak off. If you have a speech impediment, avoid hunting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jz78817 View Post
the dangerous part about colliding with a mse is that they're basically 1,000 lbs of meat on stilts. run into one, you take out the legs and now have a half-ton ass coming through your windshield.
Yes. They are big enough to clear the hood and take out the windshield and above. And if you meet one on the road, don't honk. That's close enough to a mating challenge they may put their head down and charge, put all sixteen points though your radiator at close to 30mph.
  #41  
Old 10-17-2017, 01:06 PM
puzzlegal puzzlegal is online now
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Originally Posted by Orwell View Post
... When I was a kid, the first day of rabbit season was an annual special event, and we all saw and shot lots of rabbits. Now, when I go hunting, we are lucky to see a single bunny, even in places that have lots of brush and cover. ....
Huh, we have rabbits coming out our ears. I see a rabbit everytime I look at the back yard, and I've seen as many as six at once, grazing my lawn.

I'd be happy to have a way to harvest them. But the houses are way to close here for gun hunting, even if I knew how to handle one.
  #42  
Old 10-17-2017, 01:52 PM
Dallas Jones Dallas Jones is offline
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If you want to mass market a product like venison you need to keep in mind what the average consumer wants, they want the flavor they are used to, maybe with a little exotic flair. And a lot of the flavor in meat comes from the fat. We Americans love us some fat.

Unfortunately, with deer and elk (the two I am most familiar with) you need to remove most of the fat when butchering the meat because that is where the "gaminess" is. A little deer fat will ruin an otherwise excellent cut of meat. So you get some very lean steaks. A few dry roasts that need proper cooking and something too lean to grind into hamburger. You need to add about 20% beef fat back in when grinding your hamburger to get back to the expected taste and texture. And that expected taste for most people is beef fat. This is why venison and other wild meats, even if farmed, remain a niche, novelty, or gourmet product.

When the customer wants the familiar flavor of beef, and beef is cheaper, and you would have to incorporate beef fat back into your product anyway, why not just stick with beef? Bison/buffalo can be found in stores but it too suffers from being too lean and remains a novelty.

Now, don't jump on me with your tales of excellent meals you have had of venison, elk, moose, antelope, I am referring to the tastes of the average consumer that would be the target market, you know, morons.
  #43  
Old 10-17-2017, 02:11 PM
Orwell Orwell is offline
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Originally Posted by puzzlegal View Post
Huh, we have rabbits coming out our ears. I see a rabbit everytime I look at the back yard, and I've seen as many as six at once, grazing my lawn.

I'd be happy to have a way to harvest them. But the houses are way to close here for gun hunting, even if I knew how to handle one.
Everyone has them in their yards, but that's the only place you see them. You don't see them in the woods or the fields. I guess the foxes and coyotes don't like suburban hunting. And two-legged hunters aren't allowed to hunt in between the houses.
  #44  
Old 10-17-2017, 02:27 PM
thelurkinghorror thelurkinghorror is offline
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Yep, I can't throw a stick outside my house without hitting a rabbit, quail, or dove. Go out to where you can legally hunt them and they make themselves scarce. There's a rabbit or two (sorry, all look the same) who will let me get within 6 feet without getting skittish. They're still wild animals, but very used to humans.
  #45  
Old 10-17-2017, 02:39 PM
cochrane cochrane is online now
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Would it be possible to supply enough venison to make a regular fast foot item.

Once the specialty restaurants get their hands on all the good meat, the feet are all the fast food places have left to serve.
  #46  
Old 10-17-2017, 03:07 PM
Folacin Folacin is online now
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Originally Posted by Orwell View Post
rabbit season
Duck season!

I'm a little surprised that there was a season - I would have guessed they were considered a nuisance and shootable on sight (much like squirrels).
  #47  
Old 10-17-2017, 03:25 PM
puzzlegal puzzlegal is online now
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Originally Posted by Orwell View Post
Everyone has them in their yards, but that's the only place you see them. You don't see them in the woods or the fields. I guess the foxes and coyotes don't like suburban hunting. And two-legged hunters aren't allowed to hunt in between the houses.
Oh, we have foxes, and coyotes, and hawks, and... I've had to remove partial rabbits a few times when mowing the lawn.
  #48  
Old 10-17-2017, 03:26 PM
puzzlegal puzzlegal is online now
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Originally Posted by Folacin View Post
Duck season!

I'm a little surprised that there was a season - I would have guessed they were considered a nuisance and shootable on sight (much like squirrels).
I was shocked to learn that my state has a squirrel season. I would have expected them to be vermin, not game.
  #49  
Old 10-17-2017, 03:31 PM
Orwell Orwell is offline
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Originally Posted by Folacin View Post
Duck season!

I'm a little surprised that there was a season - I would have guessed they were considered a nuisance and shootable on sight (much like squirrels).
I'm sure it depends on what state you live in, but I can tell you for a fact that both rabbits and squirrels are considered game animals in my state (PA), and have defined seasons, shooting hours, bag limits, allowed firearms and all of the other hunting regulations. You also need a state hunting license and must wear blaze orange clothing.

I think quite a few people dispatch rabbits (mostly for eating their gardens) with air guns or slingshots, but doing so is absolutely against the law here in PA.
  #50  
Old 10-17-2017, 03:35 PM
thelurkinghorror thelurkinghorror is offline
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Cottontail rabbit typically has a season. Jackrabbit (which is really a hare) often don't have a season, and most hunters consider them trash meat. It's actually not half bad, more like gamey beef than rabbit.
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