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  #251  
Old 10-31-2017, 11:41 AM
ElvisL1ves ElvisL1ves is offline
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Originally Posted by BobLibDem View Post
I feel bad for the kid. Maybe having a celebrity dad prepared him a bit, but being a kid in the White House can't be easy.
The private school he's in seems to be noted for special needs kids, and there's been some quiet talk about autism. So yeah, leave the kid some room.
  #252  
Old 10-31-2017, 11:42 AM
Richard Parker Richard Parker is offline
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It seems obvious that any un-indicted co-conspirators would at least know they should watch their ps and qs around GP.
Don't forget that these guys are idiots. GP deleted his Facebook account thinking this would keep it from the motherfucking FBI. And they're all that way, all the way through Kelly and Trump, obviously.
  #253  
Old 10-31-2017, 11:43 AM
Colibri Colibri is offline
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but being a kid in the White House can't be easy.
What do you mean? He's surrounded by other children (by mental age, anyway.)
  #254  
Old 10-31-2017, 11:45 AM
Morgenstern Morgenstern is offline
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I think the reason that Pubs refuse to let the Clinton thing refuse to die is that it's THE ONE thing all Republicans can still unite behind, i.e., hatred of her. When her name is brought up, for an instant they stop tearing at each other's flesh, raise their fists in the air, and shout, "Yeah! Yeah! That bitch! Lock her up!"

....
She's an albatross around the neck of the Democratic party and should be treated like one. Quit allowing the press to look to her as a Dem spokesperson whenever anything happens in Washington.
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  #255  
Old 10-31-2017, 11:47 AM
k9bfriender k9bfriender is offline
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Originally Posted by GIGObuster View Post
I posted this awhile ago.

This thing reminds me a lot about the last episode were Michael J Fox was officially a cast member in the show Spin City.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0707023/

I think that, besides the message to be loyal and to be willing to be a fall guy for what you know it was caused by the naiveté of your boss (and Mike knew how important it was anyhow to help his boss to keep his position after he and the staff got rid of the bad influences), one message should not be lost: the politician did learn the lesson to avoid the mafioso that was influencing policy. It was, even though in fiction, an example of how shining light on conflicts of interest and suspicious connections is supposed to work in helping democracies to fight corruption in the near past.

Of course in real life nowadays I do not see anyone that is willing to take the blame, because Trump also has a knack for selecting people that are as conning (yes, not "cunning" but "conning") as he is. They only are loyal to themselves. And unlike Winston (the naive boss of Mike) Trump is not naive, he is too close to corruption. He is still looking to get close to undemocratic thugs, undemocratic leaders and other unsavory people that are not really thinking much about the well being of the USA.

In essence, I do think that the effort of forcing Trump to RTFM of what a president of the USA is supposed to be or to learn how to at least avoid bad connections or the appearance of bad conflicts of interest is a very worthy effort indeed.

That, and this helps us to find who are the rascals that continue to look the other way when they see the reprehensible behavior of Trump. It helps us to toss them out in the next elections.
So, you are saying that Charlie Sheen will be joining the trump admin?
  #256  
Old 10-31-2017, 11:47 AM
cmyk cmyk is offline
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Originally Posted by PatriotX View Post
It seems obvious that any un-indicted co-conspirators would at least know they should watch their ps and qs around GP.
But since the matter was sealed, and his arrest was done on the DL, I'd be surprised if any co-conspirators all the sudden became that careful over the past few months. By all indications, these guys were pretty willy nilly—not exactly seasoned criminals. Look at Carter Page ferchristsake.

Last edited by cmyk; 10-31-2017 at 11:49 AM.
  #257  
Old 10-31-2017, 11:54 AM
ElvisL1ves ElvisL1ves is offline
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Maybe Mueller wants the guys who know they're on George's wire to sweat it out a little and then roll?

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So, you are saying that Charlie Sheen will be joining the trump admin?
You're gonna get tired of all that Winning!
  #258  
Old 10-31-2017, 12:03 PM
Ulfreida Ulfreida is online now
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Exactly. I mean, how the FUCK does someone manage to do that?????
By the other person cheating.
  #259  
Old 10-31-2017, 12:11 PM
Chronos Chronos is offline
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The way I see it, if you keep the Papadopoulos flip quiet, then you can nail whoever actually said anything incriminating to him up to now, and you can also nail anyone who says anything incriminating to him in the future until such time that someone figures out that he's flipped. If you reveal that he's flipped, though, you still get anyone who's already said anything incriminating to him... but also, consider all of the people who aren't sure whether they've said anything incriminating to him or not. After all, there are a lot of topics that come up in those high-level discussions, and most of them are slimy-but-legal at worst. If you're not sure what you've said to him when, then you've got a decision to weigh: Try to get away with it, or talk to the FBI now and try to negotiate a better deal, while you might still have some leverage. And so the FBI might be able to get you, or the information you have, even if it turns out that they didn't actually have any dirt on you yet.

Apparently, yesterday was the point at which Mueller decided that the benefit from worrying everyone else outweighed the benefit from keeping Papadopoulos hidden in place.
  #260  
Old 10-31-2017, 12:21 PM
Fotheringay-Phipps Fotheringay-Phipps is offline
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Originally Posted by Chronos View Post
The way I see it, if you keep the Papadopoulos flip quiet, then you can nail whoever actually said anything incriminating to him up to now, and you can also nail anyone who says anything incriminating to him in the future until such time that someone figures out that he's flipped. If you reveal that he's flipped, though, you still get anyone who's already said anything incriminating to him... but also, consider all of the people who aren't sure whether they've said anything incriminating to him or not. After all, there are a lot of topics that come up in those high-level discussions, and most of them are slimy-but-legal at worst. If you're not sure what you've said to him when, then you've got a decision to weigh: Try to get away with it, or talk to the FBI now and try to negotiate a better deal, while you might still have some leverage. And so the FBI might be able to get you, or the information you have, even if it turns out that they didn't actually have any dirt on you yet.

Apparently, yesterday was the point at which Mueller decided that the benefit from worrying everyone else outweighed the benefit from keeping Papadopoulos hidden in place.
That's plausible.

But IMO it's more likely that Papadopoulos has incriminating info from his time on the campaign as opposed to being able to produce it later. Because AFAIK he had no role in the Trump administration, and it's not like he was a big mover and shaker who would ordinarily be in contact with senior Trump people. On the campaign his role is critical as to the specific Russia issue because he tried to set up these contacts, but he was not otherwise a senior level guy. He was, in the end, a recent college graduate who latched on to the thinly populated Carson and later Trump policy teams.

So, assuming (as certainly makes sense) that the GP plea was kept quiet due to his cooperation, it's possible that the exact opposite is what happened. GP fished for a while but after a few months Mueller realized he wasn't going to get anything and the targets weren't taking his calls anymore anyway ...
  #261  
Old 10-31-2017, 12:22 PM
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It's also been suggested that Mueller unsealed GP's arrest/plea to make it even more difficult for Trump to fire him and kill the investigation. Presumably because to do so now would be an obvious case of obstruction of justice.
  #262  
Old 10-31-2017, 12:22 PM
GIGObuster GIGObuster is online now
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Originally Posted by k9bfriender View Post
So, you are saying that Charlie Sheen will be joining the trump admin?


While I can hope that all this will topple trump, I'm more of a realist and I can see that that is not in the cards now. First things first. Besides neutering any benefit Russian mafiosi got from meddling with the electorate, it is also good to point out that the current republican congress is part of the problem when they are not making an effort to counter the incompetent president.

Best hope is to press on by making the point that we need to toss all those congressional rascals out that are looking the other way.
  #263  
Old 10-31-2017, 12:24 PM
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But since the matter was sealed, and his arrest was done on the DL, I'd be surprised if any co-conspirators all the sudden became that careful over the past few months. By all indications, these guys were pretty willy nilly—not exactly seasoned criminals. Look at Carter Page ferchristsake.
Carter "sooo-per genius" Page was back on Chris Hayes' show last night. I don't think he can help himself.
  #264  
Old 10-31-2017, 12:25 PM
ElvisL1ves ElvisL1ves is offline
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Sarah Huckabee Sanders' Violent Torpedo of Truth Tour 2017.
  #265  
Old 10-31-2017, 12:41 PM
cuauhtemoc cuauhtemoc is offline
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On the campaign his role is critical as to the specific Russia issue because he tried to set up these contacts, but he was not otherwise a senior level guy. He was, in the end, a recent college graduate who latched on to the thinly populated Carson and later Trump policy teams.
This brings up an important question: Can people be demoted retroactively like that? Like, if Jeff Sessions gets indicted, can the Trump team* say "He was peripheral to the administration, operating on the edges, and Attorney General isn't really a senior position anyway. More of a consultant's role, really."

*not implying that F-P is on "the Trump team".
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  #266  
Old 10-31-2017, 12:46 PM
ElvisL1ves ElvisL1ves is offline
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Not only can they say it, they will. They've been doing it for some time.

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In Trump’s telling, Manafort was someone who “was with the campaign, as you know, for a very short period of time, for a relatively short period of time.”
  #267  
Old 10-31-2017, 12:54 PM
krondys krondys is offline
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Not only can they say it, they will. They've been doing it for some time.
Yeah, the trained response definitely seems to be "George Papa-who-polous? Paul Mana-whatsis? Never heard of 'em, they were nobodies, no position in our staff."

As an aside, this morning I was listening to the Michael Smerconish program, and he did a pass-through of all the major news networks- and almost every one was of course talking about the indictments and the Papadapoulos plea... with the exception of Fox News, where they were going on about Benghazi, of all things.
  #268  
Old 10-31-2017, 01:04 PM
Fotheringay-Phipps Fotheringay-Phipps is offline
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This brings up an important question: Can people be demoted retroactively like that? Like, if Jeff Sessions gets indicted, can the Trump team* say "He was peripheral to the administration, operating on the edges, and Attorney General isn't really a senior position anyway. More of a consultant's role, really."
In the case of people like Sessions and Manafort, these guys were obviously big players. In the case of people like Paopadopoulos, it's the opposite; he was obviously a small player and people who assign him a major role are the ones who are trying to promote him retroactively. This, based on both his resume and on the nature of his interaction with other members of the campaign.

But another way to look at it would "how closely would you have to have been following the campaign in order to have heard of the guy?" Or, "how well known was/is the guy for things other than this issue?" I think the difference between him and the other two on these scores is pretty big.
  #269  
Old 10-31-2017, 01:13 PM
GrandWino GrandWino is offline
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GP may have been able to show Mueller that he still had access to certain targets.

Earlier upthreads, F-P mentioned the August news reports about GP's emails regarding Russia and how the campaign pushed back on those requests. Now that we know GP was arrested in late July, I've seen the following scenario posited in a compelling way:

GP is arrested. Agrees to cooperate/wear a wire. Calls up someone up the ladder (Clovis or Sessions or Manafort perhaps) and says "I just got arrested, what do I do?" If he gets anybody on tape telling him in anyway how to coordinate a false story - they're nailed.

Now, if GP had called somebody after his arrest... it would seem to indicate that the August press stories were pushed out by those with a reason to diminish GP's role in the campaign and to show that the campaign did not go along with the Russia offers.

Anybody that has had conversations with GP since late July must be shitting themselves right now.

Also, GP just returned from a trip to London last week. Last week! His passport was confiscated if he was arrested - so he had to have gone with Mueller's blessing. Theory is that he could have gone over there and gotten Farage or Assange on tape.
  #270  
Old 10-31-2017, 01:27 PM
ElvisL1ves ElvisL1ves is offline
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Anybody that has had conversations with GP since late July must be shitting themselves right now.
And next, wondering if Trump is worth going to prison for.
  #271  
Old 10-31-2017, 01:35 PM
Richard Parker Richard Parker is offline
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I don't follow the news as closely as some, but I knew Papadopoulos as the Trump foreign policy advisor who listed model UN on his resume. My wife remembered him too.

I think the idea that he was a "low-level volunteer" is pretty laughable. I'm surprised anyone doesn't see through it. He was clearly at the upper echelon of the campaign, meeting with principals and carrying out sensitive assignments.

Last edited by Richard Parker; 10-31-2017 at 01:35 PM.
  #272  
Old 10-31-2017, 01:38 PM
Bayard Bayard is offline
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I don't follow the news as closely as some, but I knew Papadopoulos as the Trump foreign policy advisor who listed model UN on his resume. My wife remembered him too.

I think the idea that he was a "low-level volunteer" is pretty laughable. I'm surprised anyone doesn't see through it. He was clearly at the upper echelon of the campaign, meeting with principals and carrying out sensitive assignments.
Especially since there's a photo of him sitting at a table with Trump and Sessions.
  #273  
Old 10-31-2017, 01:43 PM
cmyk cmyk is offline
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Even if GP was relatively low-level, according to Manafort’s email, they prefered to use low-level guys to do the colluding legwork. That was apparently the MO for the campaign, so as to offer Trump plausible deniability. Knowing that, it removes the plausible deniability by another notch, making the WH’s claims that much more unbelievable.
  #274  
Old 10-31-2017, 01:44 PM
Fotheringay-Phipps Fotheringay-Phipps is offline
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Originally Posted by GrandWino View Post
Earlier upthreads, F-P mentioned the August news reports about GP's emails regarding Russia and how the campaign pushed back on those requests. Now that we know GP was arrested in late July, I've seen the following scenario posited in a compelling way:

GP is arrested. Agrees to cooperate/wear a wire. Calls up someone up the ladder (Clovis or Sessions or Manafort perhaps) and says "I just got arrested, what do I do?" If he gets anybody on tape telling him in anyway how to coordinate a false story - they're nailed.

Now, if GP had called somebody after his arrest... it would seem to indicate that the August press stories were pushed out by those with a reason to diminish GP's role in the campaign and to show that the campaign did not go along with the Russia offers.
Trying to show who? I can't imagine any possible target thinks Mueller and his team are going to be convinced by articles in media sources. (And there's no real reason to target the public, both because they weren't aware of the story to begin with and because it would be very temporary.)

Certainly the timing of those stories right after the GP arrest seems unlikely to be coincidental, but I'm having a hard time fitting it in. Seems more likely that people were aware of the arrest, and this spurred interest in his role.
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I don't follow the news as closely as some, but I knew Papadopoulos as the Trump foreign policy advisor who listed model UN on his resume. My wife remembered him too.
That kind of proves my point. If a guy is best known for being scoffed at over using "model UN" on his resume that's not a guy with a major role. And the type of people who know that about him are the type of people who follow campaigns closely. Not "as closely as some" but there are always bigger junkies. I myself follow the news much closer than many people but (to my recollection) I never heard of the guy prior to the August coverage. And even then, when the guy's plea was publicized yesterday it took me a while before it occurred to me to check if maybe he was the same guy those earlier articles were about.
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Especially since there's a photo of him sitting at a table with Trump and Sessions.
Trump's campaign was very thinly staffed, and in addition, Trump has a very open-access style of management.
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Even if GP was relatively low-level, according to Manafort’s email, they prefered to use low-level guys to do the colluding legwork.
That's a valid point. GP being low level doesn't prove that Trump people didn't collude. But it's less incriminating than it would be if he was a senior guy. (It should be noted that meeting with Russians is not necessarily collusion, and the two can't be automatically equated.)

Last edited by Fotheringay-Phipps; 10-31-2017 at 01:47 PM.
  #275  
Old 10-31-2017, 01:44 PM
cmyk cmyk is offline
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Especially since there's a photo of him sitting at a table with Trump and Sessions.
And the WH is trying to play that off as just a photo-op type gathering.
  #276  
Old 10-31-2017, 01:53 PM
Bayard Bayard is offline
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Trump's campaign was very thinly staffed, and in addition, Trump has a very open-access style of management.
If it was that thinly staffed and open, that only exacerbates Trump's problem. in a huge campaign, he could plausibly claim that he had no knowledge of what the drones in sector 7G were doing. In a campaign that's so thin that there's essentially no distinction between junior and senior staff, Trump must be presumed to have been in the loop.
  #277  
Old 10-31-2017, 02:02 PM
Fotheringay-Phipps Fotheringay-Phipps is offline
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If it was that thinly staffed and open, that only exacerbates Trump's problem. in a huge campaign, he could plausibly claim that he had no knowledge of what the drones in sector 7G were doing. In a campaign that's so thin that there's essentially no distinction between junior and senior staff, Trump must be presumed to have been in the loop.
Possibly. Though the flip side is that Trump is so clueless that you can't really assume he's in the loop on anything.

But I think it's not really a matter of being in the loop. It's a matter of how much authority the guy had, such that you can assume that his opinion reflects that of the campaign as a whole. If Manafort was in favor of increased contacts with Russians and GP was urging caution, then it's likely that Manafort prevailed and that the Trump campaign had increased contact with Russians in one form or another. If it's GP urging more contact and Manafort putting on the brakes, then it's likely that the opposite happened.

Of course, with a guy like Trump you never know who might ultimately prevail. But from what's been seen so far it seems like GP needed buy-in from more senior people, who tended to be skeptical of his approach.
  #278  
Old 10-31-2017, 02:05 PM
John Bredin John Bredin is offline
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As an aside, this morning I was listening to the Michael Smerconish program, and he did a pass-through of all the major news networks- and almost every one was of course talking about the indictments and the Papadapoulos plea... with the exception of Fox News, where they were going on about Benghazi, of all things.
To be fair to Fox, one of the Benghazi attackers was just busted, so it's legit late news as well as instead of their usual Clinton Derangement Syndrome.
  #279  
Old 10-31-2017, 02:13 PM
Bayard Bayard is offline
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It's a matter of how much authority the guy had, such that you can assume that his opinion reflects that of the campaign as a whole. If Manafort was in favor of increased contacts with Russians and GP was urging caution, then it's likely that Manafort prevailed and that the Trump campaign had increased contact with Russians in one form or another. If it's GP urging more contact and Manafort putting on the brakes, then it's likely that the opposite happened.
Papadopolous's supervisor, apparently Page, encouraged Papadopolous's efforts. And there was subsequently a meeting with Russians promising derogatory information about Clinton, at which Manafort, Kushner, and Trump Jr. were present. This looks to me like both Papadopolous and Manafort were in favor of increased contact with the Russians, for the purpose of benefiting from information the Russians had gathered illegally.
  #280  
Old 10-31-2017, 02:16 PM
Euphonious Polemic Euphonious Polemic is offline
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I think the idea that he was a "low-level volunteer" is pretty laughable. I'm surprised anyone doesn't see through it. He was clearly at the upper echelon of the campaign, meeting with principals and carrying out sensitive assignments.
I'm actually surprised that the Trump administration along with the Trump News Network (aka Fox News) has not already deemed GP an "unperson" and airbrushed him out of any photographs. I'm sure that they could get tips from the Russians on how to do this.
  #281  
Old 10-31-2017, 02:18 PM
mhendo mhendo is offline
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But I think it's not really a matter of being in the loop. It's a matter of how much authority the guy had, such that you can assume that his opinion reflects that of the campaign as a whole.
The level of his authority within the campaign really isn't particularly important. The devil is going to be in the details. Who was he communicating with? What did he say and do? To what extent was he connected with people who were higher up? And, even if he had little or no power within the campaign, what might he know about the people who were in positions of authority, and their dealings? I don't think that Mueller start with Papadopoulos because he believed that he was the guy calling the shots.

As one pundit noted on one of the cable news shows this morning, the guys who broke into the Watergate didn't have any real authority in the Nixon campaign either.
  #282  
Old 10-31-2017, 02:23 PM
running coach running coach is online now
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I'm actually surprised that the Trump administration along with the Trump News Network (aka Fox News) has not already deemed GP an "unperson" and airbrushed him out of any photographs. I'm sure that they could get tips from the Russians on how to do this.
That's ridiculous.










They'd use Photoshop.
Most likely pirated.
  #283  
Old 10-31-2017, 02:24 PM
Fotheringay-Phipps Fotheringay-Phipps is offline
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The level of his authority within the campaign really isn't particularly important. The devil is going to be in the details. Who was he communicating with? What did he say and do? To what extent was he connected with people who were higher up? And, even if he had little or no power within the campaign, what might he know about the people who were in positions of authority, and their dealings? I don't think that Mueller start with Papadopoulos because he believed that he was the guy calling the shots.
On the whole, I agree with this. But what it amounts to is saying that additional facts could emerge incriminating the more important people. Absolutely. What the "GP was a relative nobody" argument is about is that what's emerged until now is not about a guy with significant authority.
  #284  
Old 10-31-2017, 02:32 PM
cmyk cmyk is offline
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On the whole, I agree with this. But what it amounts to is saying that additional facts could emerge incriminating the more important people. Absolutely. What the "GP was a relative nobody" argument is about is that what's emerged until now is not about a guy with significant authority.
I’m not sure I understand your point. It’s not about whether GP had authority, but rather, permission.
  #285  
Old 10-31-2017, 02:42 PM
Merneith Merneith is offline
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On the whole, I agree with this. But what it amounts to is saying that additional facts could emerge incriminating the more important people. Absolutely. What the "GP was a relative nobody" argument is about is that what's emerged until now is not about a guy with significant authority.
His authority-level is irrelevant. He's the messenger. He's the go-between. He's the guy who talks to everyone and tries to set up meetings and schedule sit-downs.

If Papdopulous is really just the guy who sat at the table with the important guys and poured their coffee - he's a serious witness.

And we know from his indictment that he's been acting as a "pro-active" witness for the last couple months. He's been actively gathering information from the important guys at the table.

It doesn't matter what Papadopoulos' job title in the administration was. It matters which meetings he attended and what was discussed in his hearing.
  #286  
Old 10-31-2017, 02:44 PM
Chronos Chronos is offline
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Quoth Fotheringay-Phipps:

That kind of proves my point. If a guy is best known for being scoffed at over using "model UN" on his resume that's not a guy with a major role.
What about the guy best known for being a reality TV host? Is that a guy with a major role?

In any competently-run campaign, Papadopoulos would have been a minor player. But what does that have to do with Trump?
  #287  
Old 10-31-2017, 02:48 PM
hajario hajario is offline
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Trump is tweeting again. Papa is a "known liar" apparently.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-cal...131438636.html
  #288  
Old 10-31-2017, 02:48 PM
GrandWino GrandWino is offline
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Originally Posted by Bayard View Post
Papadopolous's supervisor, apparently Page, encouraged Papadopolous's efforts. And there was subsequently a meeting with Russians promising derogatory information about Clinton, at which Manafort, Kushner, and Trump Jr. were present. This looks to me like both Papadopolous and Manafort were in favor of increased contact with the Russians, for the purpose of benefiting from information the Russians had gathered illegally.
"Campaign supervisor" is Sam Clovis.

This WaPo article runs down who is who, when it is known.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...381_story.html

“The Campaign Supervisor”: Trump campaign national co-chairman Sam Clovis
“High-Ranking Campaign Official”: Campaign manager Corey Lewandowski
“Another high-ranking campaign official”: Campaign chairman Paul Manafort
“Another campaign official”: Manafort deputy Rick Gates
“Senior Policy Advisor”: Unknown
“The Professor”: Joseph Mifsud, director of the London Academy of Diplomacy
“The Female Russian National”: Unknown
“A Russian National Connected to the Russian Ministry of Foreign Affairs”: Ivan Timofeev
  #289  
Old 10-31-2017, 02:49 PM
GrandWino GrandWino is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hajario View Post
Trump is tweeting again. Papa is a "known liar" apparently.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-cal...131438636.html
He of course fails to mention that what Papa lied about was NOT attempting to collude w/ Russia.
  #290  
Old 10-31-2017, 02:50 PM
Bayard Bayard is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GrandWino View Post
"Campaign supervisor" is Sam Clovis.

This WaPo article runs down who is who, when it is known.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...381_story.html

“The Campaign Supervisor”: Trump campaign national co-chairman Sam Clovis
“High-Ranking Campaign Official”: Campaign manager Corey Lewandowski
“Another high-ranking campaign official”: Campaign chairman Paul Manafort
“Another campaign official”: Manafort deputy Rick Gates
“Senior Policy Advisor”: Unknown
“The Professor”: Joseph Mifsud, director of the London Academy of Diplomacy
“The Female Russian National”: Unknown
“A Russian National Connected to the Russian Ministry of Foreign Affairs”: Ivan Timofeev
Ah, cool. Thanks.
  #291  
Old 10-31-2017, 02:50 PM
Euphonious Polemic Euphonious Polemic is offline
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Originally Posted by cmyk View Post
I’m not sure I understand your point. It’s not about whether GP had authority, but rather, permission.
And also, knowledge about what others in higher up positions with authority did, and who they communicated with.

As has been pointed out (and is rather obvious), Mueller is following the playbook; Get the small fish, wring the information out of them and then move on to the inner circles.
  #292  
Old 10-31-2017, 02:52 PM
Fotheringay-Phipps Fotheringay-Phipps is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Merneith View Post
His authority-level is irrelevant. He's the messenger. He's the go-between. He's the guy who talks to everyone and tries to set up meetings and schedule sit-downs.

If Papdopulous is really just the guy who sat at the table with the important guys and poured their coffee - he's a serious witness.

And we know from his indictment that he's been acting as a "pro-active" witness for the last couple months. He's been actively gathering information from the important guys at the table.

It doesn't matter what Papadopoulos' job title in the administration was. It matters which meetings he attended and what was discussed in his hearing.
Right. But at this point we don't know any of that. What I'm discussing is how incriminating what's already known is. What might become known at some point in the future is speculation.
  #293  
Old 10-31-2017, 02:54 PM
Euphonious Polemic Euphonious Polemic is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hajario Trump is tweeting again. Papa is a "known liar" apparently.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-cal...131438636.html

Quote:
Originally Posted by GrandWino View Post
He of course fails to mention that what Papa lied about was NOT attempting to collude w/ Russia.
You've gotta love the balls behind this.

A guy is arrested for lying to the FBI about stuff that would have been damaging to Trump.

Trump then throws him under the bus, and says "See! They guy is a liar, and even the FBI agrees with me! That proves I'm innocent!"

It's like the kid who kills his parents, and then begs the court for leniency because he's an orphan.
  #294  
Old 10-31-2017, 03:04 PM
cmyk cmyk is offline
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“Billy, did your brother take a cookie from the jar?”

“Ummm... noooo.

“Billy, I know you’re lying to protect him. Do you want to be grounded?”

“Okay! Fine! Yes! I saw him steal a cookie right after school!”

“Donnie, what do you have to say for yourself?”

“How can you believe him! You already know he’s a liar!”
  #295  
Old 10-31-2017, 03:07 PM
Fotheringay-Phipps Fotheringay-Phipps is offline
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I don't think much of Trump or his tweet(s), but I don't get that particular counterargument. It's not like GP was falling on his sword for the Trumpians. He was trying to exonerate himself. (And especially if he later wore a wire as is being widely speculated, I don't see Trump owing him anything.)

[OTOH, I also don't know what Trump might be saying either. AFAICT, the incriminating facts that GP pleaded to are mostly documented in emails, and very little is resting on his veracity at this point. But in general, I'm not inclined to pay attention to Trump tweets.]
  #296  
Old 10-31-2017, 03:08 PM
Euphonious Polemic Euphonious Polemic is offline
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Originally Posted by Fotheringay-Phipps View Post
Right. But at this point we don't know any of that. What I'm discussing is how incriminating what's already known is. What might become known at some point in the future is speculation.
What's known right now is that some three months ago, Mueller busted a low level staffer who had knowledge of Russian involvement with the Trump campaign. Mueller kept this arrest secret, and used this staffer as a "Proactive Cooperator" for the past three months.

We know that Mueller has chosen this moment to reveal that he has used this staffer.

So sure. Maybe it's all bluff. Maybe Mueller has nothing, and this whole investigation ends now. But that's not very likely, is it?
  #297  
Old 10-31-2017, 03:20 PM
ElvisL1ves ElvisL1ves is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cmyk View Post
“How can you believe him! You already know he’s a liar!”
My new earworm: Fred Astaire in Royal Wedding with "How could you believe me when I said I loved you when you know I've been a liar all my life?"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fotheringay-Phipps View Post
And especially if he later wore a wire as is being widely speculated, I don't see Trump owing him anything.
It wouldn't matter if he did. When did Trump ever acknowledge owing anybody else anything?

Quote:
OTOH, I also don't know what Trump might be saying either.
I don't know either, but I'm sure it's loud and profane, and we'll find out in tonight's edition of Toilet Tweets.
  #298  
Old 10-31-2017, 03:22 PM
GrandWino GrandWino is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cmyk View Post
“Billy, did your brother take a cookie from the jar?”

“Ummm... noooo.

“Billy, I know you’re lying to protect him. Do you want to be grounded?”

“Okay! Fine! Yes! I saw him steal a cookie right after school!”

“Donnie, what do you have to say for yourself?”

“How can you believe him! You already know he’s a liar!”

F-P: Well did anybody actually SEE the cookie get stolen?
  #299  
Old 10-31-2017, 04:08 PM
Aspenglow Aspenglow is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GrandWino View Post
F-P: Well did anybody actually SEE the cookie get stolen?
<Snicker(doodle)>
  #300  
Old 10-31-2017, 04:09 PM
Northern Piper Northern Piper is online now
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And where was Hillary when it went missing? I think someone should investigate that.
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