Pratchett- beyond Discworld.

[andygirl]

I've been a longtime fan of Pratchett and the Disc series, but I would have to say that I found his early books to be nowhere near as good as the ones that came later. I don't think the Disc started coming onto its own until somewhere around Mort.

Good Omens notwithstanding, the only non-Disc book of Pratchett's that I've read was Strata. Quite frankly, I hated it. The plot, characters, and general style were quite awful and clunky, and what made it worse was that I was hoping for something as least on part to Color of Magic.

Has anyone read the non-Disc books? Thoughts on them? What about the ones that aren't directly Discworld like the Maps?

I'd love to know what's worth hunting down.

[lucie]

I am trying to get hold of some of his short early stuff, particularly a trilogy that I think is called The Bromeliad - consists of Trucks, Wings, and another one. Unfortunately, I have only been able to get hold of the last one in the series and read about half of it - great stuff, very Discworld-Pratchitt. They've been recently reprinted in the UK, but I haven't found them here in the US. Can any Brit dopers help us out?

I agree with you on "Strata" - a couple amusing bits, but I hated the story.

[clairobscur]

Wasn't he the author of the trilogy about the gnomes? I enjoyed this one a lot, much more than the two or three "discworld" I read...

[Gaspode]

Started reading "Dark Side of the Sun'. Got about a third through and literally threw it out. Absolutely hated it. I'm a huge Pratchett fan (you couldn't have guessed by the handle I bet?)and I almost never fail to finish a book, but that one was absolute shit. Far too much philosophising about the implications of parralel universes and far too little time spent making the characters into something I could identify with. It was almost like the characters were only their to provide someone to ask questions so the author could expand on his pet theories.

I read 'Johnny and the Dead' just to see what it was like. Actually incredibly good for what was written as a kids book. Easily on par with his best philosophical stuff in the Discworld Death novels (and with a minor tear jerker ending).

'The Unadulterated Cat' is pretty good but not exactly world class. Recommended only if you really like cats.


[quote] I am trying to get hold of some of his short early stuff, particularly a trilogy that I think is called The Bromeliad - consists of Trucks, Wings, and another one.[quote]
'Truckers', 'Diggers' and 'Wings'. I've only read 'Truckers' and while it was alright I never felt compelled to find the rest of the trilogy. The characters were a little to cutesy and unreal. Kind of like the way Twoflower was in the first couple of Discworld novels. It's very hard to empathise with someone who is so completely divorced from reality, and that doesn't really make for a good leading character in a novel.

[Gartog]

Were written as children's books, before the discworld novels (I believe) DreamWorks SDK have the rights to the trilogy and plan on turning them into computer generated films - they are about gnomes who go on a journey, relocating from their home across the trilogy.

I enjoyed them as a child. TP also wrote, for children, 'Johnny and the dead' 'Johnny and the Bomb', 'Only you can save Mankind' and 'The Carpet People'.

I'm not sure I'd recommend these for adults though.

I recently reread Moving pictures (the 9th DW novel), which I thought was excellent and as good as some of the more recent DiscWorld series, (although I am always biased to the book I have most recently read)

I am waiting for 'The Truth' and 'Thief of Time' to come out in paper back.

[Qadgop the Mercotan]

I liked The Bromeliad, the "Johnny" books didn't do a lot for me, I thought Strata was interesting in the same way that reading Tolkien's History of Middle-Earth Series was interesting, and I really enjoyed The Carpet People.

But really, I think the discworld stuff is the best. Am I alone in thinking that his latest books are actually getting better, deeper, richer, more subtle and thought-provoking?

[GuanoLad]

Bromeliad... where I come from it was called "The Nomes Trilogy", and in fact they weren't written pre-discworld, they came out around the Sourcery/Pyramids/Eric kind of era.

I loved them, I thought they were really original, and I'm going to steal a couple of his ideas for one of my stories one day.

I also love the Johnny books, though not as much. The characters are a little young for me - not in the humour, but in the characterisation of the children.

Good Omens rocks!

Strata and Dark Side of the Sun I didn't like. Serious and dull, unfortunately.

And I also didn't enjoy Carpet People - just felt a bit clumsy.

There are more non-Disc books on the horizon, and a couple of kids books that are set in the Discworld but not really about anything normally disc-ish (though one is set around the Nac Mac Feegle)

[Koxinga]

Originally posted by Qadgop the Mercotan
Am I alone in thinking that his latest books are actually getting better, deeper, richer, more subtle and thought-provoking? [/b]

I could see that Carpe Jugulum was trying to explore some serious philosophy, what with Granny Weatherwax facing the light and stepping backward into the dark. However, this made it a little jarring when Pratchett stepped back into slapstick mode, and even made the comedy seem a little forced. I sometimes wonder if he's sort of shrinking back from being a really serious writer.

[Ross]

I think I heard that he wrote the Carpet People when he was 17, so I daresay clumsy is fair enough. I haven't read it.

He's also a bit of a one for ripping himself off. For example, the Carpet People sounds a lot like the Nomes trilogy (which is certainly worth buying). And doesn't a robotic version of the Discworld show up in Strata? Or DSOTS?


I read every Discworld book in a few months, which ended with the Hogfather era, then I kind of passed out. I think the last one I read was... I can't even remember what it was called. You know, the counterweight continent, Rincewind in Australia, etc.

He is a fine writer. I always loved his logic, and his image of what it was like inside a golem's mind - far behind the red eyes, the golem himself sat tiny on a distant desert, waiting.

[Yookeroo]

Originally posted by Qadgop the Mercotan
But really, I think the discworld stuff is the best. Am I alone in thinking that his latest books are actually getting better, deeper, richer, more subtle and thought-provoking? [/b]

No. I'm right there with you. As fun as his early stuff is, his writing has really matured, particularly the Witch & Watch books.

The kids books (Johnny books & Bromeliad) are fantastic.

[Fenris]

Aargh: Qadgop the Mercotan beat me to it: I loved the Bromeliad stuff, the Johnny stuff didn't do much for me and I like Pratchett's newer stuff in large part due to the darker tone. Thanks, Qad.



Fenris

[Francesca]

I don't know if it's available in the US, but Pratchett recently co-wrote The Science of Discworld with Ian Stewart and Jack Cohen. It's a really great mix of a Discworld story and a discussion of the science that underlies it.

As for the non-discworld books - I enjoyed the Bromeliad, but I couldn't get into Strata or DSOTS at all. Haven't read the Johnny stuff- it doesn't really appeal. Strata was too... something for me. I can't put my finger on it. It just didn't sound like Pterry.

There's a new Discworld hardback coming out here next month. I'm in agreement with Q the M and [/b]Fenris[/b] - as the books progress they get darker and (to me) much more interesting and entertaining. I really enjoyed Thief of Time and I'm hoping the next instalment is a Vetinari one. (Incidentally - I only just got that recently: Vetinari/Medici. Heeee!).

Fran

[Legomancer]

Okay, confession: I've never read any Discworld books. I bought the Colour of Magic long ago when it first came out and never finished it because I thought it was kind of dull. By the time Discworld was a hit, I was wary of it for two reasons, neither of which are good reasons:

1) For some reason I had visions of Xanth in my head. It seemed to me to be that all over again.

2) Have you ever seen alt.fan.pratchett? I used to read alt.humor.best-of-usenet and half the submissions on there were from alt.fan.pratchett and involved people desperately trying to be funny and amuse pratchett, who evidently hung out on the newsgroup. I didn't really want to associate with them.

As I said, those are bad reasons. If I was going to give it a try, what would you suggest?

[Fenris]

Originally posted by Legomancer
As I said, those are bad reasons. If I was going to give it a try, what would you suggest?

Great. You've just turned this thread into a Great Debate.





Anyway, the general consensus is that if you're only going to try one Pratchett, Small Gods is the one. It's not my favorite, but it's a stand-alone and is very good.

With the Discworld stuff, there are several sub-series: The Death series, the Witches series, the Rincewind series, and so on. Each group of series has a loose internal continuity. Most books (even within the sub-series) can be read in any order, but are better if read in order. The first two books (The Color of Magic and The Light Fantastic are dramatically different in tone from the rest of the series. The series changes tone dramatically with (depending on who you talk to) book 3 or 4).

Fenris

[rjung]

Speaking as a Pratchett fan who's got all of his non-Discworld stuff (and I even have The Science of Discworld in hardcover, so there):

• Strata was okay. Not great, not horrible, but merely okay. Overall it reads like a parody of Larry Niven's Discworld series (which I believe was the intent), but tends to wander quite a bit, which reduces the humor level. You definitely have to read Discworld to enjoy it, though.
• Similarly, Dark Side of the Sun is a major parody/pastich of Isaac Asimov's novels. Note that Dom Salabos' robot is also named Isaac, and the overall plot of future predictability is a riff on Asimov's Foundation novels.
• The Carpet People is definitely spotty, but since he wrote it in his teens (14? 17?), I'll cut him some slack. It is definitely an early draft of the Nomes trilogy, which is (are?) terrific. I plan to introduce them to my kid once he gets old enough.
• And I'm definitely a fan of the Johnny Maxwell titles, simply because Johnny's a fun character to be with. Not quite as out-and-out insane as the Discworld novels, but certainly entertaining. Johnny and the Bomb gets a little deeper than the first two, touching briefly on issues of racism and cultural changes, but it's still a lot of laughs. And as a video-game fan, I thought Only You Can Save the Universe was so dead-on...
• Finally, I don;t know how much Pratchett contributed to The Science of Discworld, but given that the non-Discworld "factual" text has some Pratchettian-style jokes sprinkled throughout, I find it to be a great read. The Wizards' creation of the universe was definitely ROTFL material.

[rjung]

• Strata was okay. Not great, not horrible, but merely okay. Overall it reads like a parody of Larry Niven's Discworld series (which I believe was the intent), but tends to wander quite a bit, which reduces the humor level. You definitely have to read Discworld to enjoy it, though.

ACK! I meant Larry Niven's Ringworld series, of course... Goof goof goof...

[cher3]

I can't believe I'm the first to mention "Good Omens." It was co-authored with Neal Gaiman, but it's got a lot of the same humor as the Discworld series.

[Fenris]

Originally posted by rjung
Speaking as a Pratchett fan who's got all of his non-Discworld stuff (and I even have The Science of Discworld in hardcover, so there):<snip>

Ditto, and I have the Nanny Ogg Cookbook, the Granny Weatherwax story in Silverburg's Legends anthology, the (once) rare short story "Theatre of Cruelty" (which can be gotten on-line with PTerry's permission here too, PLUS I have British and American editions of most of the books so there right back atcha!! (You realize that all this proves is that I'm a slightly obsessive person)

[*]Finally, I don;t know how much Pratchett contributed to The Science of Discworld, but given that the non-Discworld "factual" text has some Pratchettian-style jokes sprinkled throughout, I find it to be a great read. The Wizards' creation of the universe was definitely ROTFL material.

Apparently quite a bit of the non-Diskworld stuff was Pratchett, if one compares the sparkling text of The Science of Diskworld to the plodding tedium which is Flatterland, also by Ian Stewart. I got Flatterland based on the strength of Science of Diskworld and it was atrocious. A review by me of Flatterland can be found here, although I'm a bit traumatized that no-one responded to it.

Fenris

[Myrr21]

I can't believe I'm the first to mention "Good Omens." It was co-authored with Neal Gaiman, but it's got a lot of the same humor as the Discworld series.

Well, actually GuanoLad beat ya to it, but second is good

What's funny is how easy it can be to pick out the Pratchett and Gaimen bits; you can sit there and pretty much figure out who wrote/suggested what. It still holds together as one story, though.

[Atreyu]

Originally posted by Gartog
I am waiting for 'The Truth' and 'Thief of Time' to come out in paper back.

The Truth is now available in paperback. I bought it earlier today. Seeing it on the shelf waiting for me to buy it and take it home has made my week.

[Gartog]

The Truth is now available in paperback

Really? Amazon.co.uk have the release as November and I figured it would be the same everywhere.

In fact I have just check a few other sites which have the same date, curious . . . . .

Are you in the US?

[Atreyu]

[quote]Originally posted by Gartog

Are you in the US?

Yep. I'm surprised it wasn't released in paperback first in the U.K., considering that is where the author lives.

Now if they would just hurry up with Thief of Time's release into paperback.

[rjung]

Originally posted by Fenris
Ditto, and I have the Nanny Ogg Cookbook, the Granny Weatherwax story in Silverburg's Legends anthology, the (once) rare short story "Theatre of Cruelty" (which can be gotten on-line with PTerry's permission here too, PLUS I have British and American editions of most of the books so there right back atcha!!

Okay, I'm officially jealous. Though to salvage my ego, I will point out that I also have The Streets of Ankh-Morpork and The Pratchett Portfolio, and I've got The Last Hero on preorder already. Though I should scare up a copy of Legends myself.

I've always wondered how much "new material" is in supplimental stuff like the cookbook and the calendars; care to clue me in?

(You realize that all this proves is that I'm a slightly obsessive person)

If it's to do with Pratchett, it can't be a bad thing.

Apparently quite a bit of the non-Diskworld stuff was Pratchett, if one compares the sparkling text of The Science of Diskworld to the plodding tedium which is Flatterland, also by Ian Stewart. I got Flatterland based on the strength of Science of Diskworld and it was atrocious.

Sorry you were traumatized, but it's good to hear pTerry didn't just phone in the Wizards' bits, at least.

[Fenris]

Originally posted by rjung

Okay, I'm officially jealous. Though to salvage my ego, I will point out that I also have The Streets of Ankh-Morpork and The Pratchett Portfolio, and I've got The Last Hero on preorder already. Though I should scare up a copy of Legends myself.

I've got the Streets of A-M too, plus all the Diaries (which are cool, but not much bang for the buck, The Diskworld Mappe and a few others. http://www.amazon.co.uk is my friend!. And I've preordered my copy of The Last Hero too! ...th' heck's the Pratchett Portfolio?

I've always wondered how much "new material" is in supplimental stuff like the cookbook and the calendars; care to clue me in?

Sure thing: It's about 175 pages, most of which are legit (but, in some cases kinda yukky traditional British cuisine), with footnotes. Very, very funny footnotes.

And some of the recipes are just hysterical: He spends two pages having Lord Vetrinari explain how, precicely, to make "Bread and Water". Lord V. concludes, after exhaustive instructions on how to eat it (do you eat the bread, THEN drink the water? Is the water poisoned? How do you test), he says:

Here my preferred method, which has stood me in good stead:
1. Arrange the politics of the country over a period of years so that poisoning you will be more trouble than it is worth and interfere with the private ambitions of too many people just at the moment.

2. Make sure that there are among the city's civil service some unpredictable men who will consider your poisoning a personal insult against them, and generally cause a lot of fuss.

3. Then eat what you please.

Brilliant, funny stuff. A nice mix of a real cookbook and a comedy one. You might also consider getting the GURPS Discworld (and Discworld II, but not as much) suppliment. Pratchett wrote tons of stuff, you can ignore the gaming info, and there're beautiful Paul Kirby illos.

If you're truly obsessive, you might want to check Dejanews (or whatever the heck Google renamed it) for alt.books.pratchett. Pterry used to post there regularly, until about a year ago when (IIRC) some nitwit(s?) started posting story ideas. Pterry didn't want to risk being sued if there was any overlap, so he stopped reading and posting. <sigh>

Fenris

[GuanoLad]

Don't get your Josh Kirby mixed up with your Paul Kidby, there, Fenris.

Okay, hands up everyone who has the soundtrack of Discworld on CD? *GuanoLad raises his hand*

[andygirl]

Hey, I mentioned Good Omens in the fricking OP. So there.

If you want to read a Pratchett that's not a stand-alone, I've always enjoyed Men at Arms. I think it's at that point that the Watch series started to shine, and it's early enough that you don't need the backstory.

Is there much difference between the Brit and American editions? I have afew Disc books that I got from England, but I haven't noticed anything.

So what Pratchett would you recommend for someone on a limited budget who owns and loves the whole Discword series?

[JDeMobray]

Originally posted by Fenris
Anyway, the general consensus is that if you're only going to try one Pratchett, Small Gods is the one. It's not my favorite, but it's a stand-alone and is very good.

If I might be allowed to disagree. Reaper FRICKIN' Man. While not technically a stand alone, Reaper Man stands alone well enough in that it makes no direct reference to the things that came before and, in my opinion, gives a better example of The Total Prachett Experience (tm). It's actually probably my favorite individual book, although broadly speaking I enjoy the Watch series and the Rincewind series a bit more than the Death stuff.

[Fenris]

Originally posted by JDeMobray

If I might be allowed to disagree. Reaper FRICKIN' Man. While not technically a stand alone, Reaper Man stands alone well enough in that it makes no direct reference to the things that came before and, in my opinion, gives a better example of The Total Prachett Experience (tm)

I agree that Reaper Man is a better book (the closing bit from the point where he's buying the chocolates and stuff onward always sends chills up my back), but it builds on Mort and is followed up with Soul Music and while it can stand alone, it's so much better as part of the larger group. In any case, I should have said "The general consensus on alt.books.pratchett..."
rather than implying that there was a general consensus of all Pterry fans.

Of the four series, I like 'em in this order: Death, Witches, Watch, and rincewind, with the Witches and Watch stuff tied.

Andygirl: As far as I've noticed, the main differences in the US/UK editions are that you have your choice of bad Josh Kirby covers (he drew Twoflowers with four eyes! Geddit!? Four-eyes!? Four! Yukkity-yukkity...yuck.), or bad, US "We have no idea how to market these books" Op-art covers (the US cover to Hogfather makes my eyes bleed). I've noticed some spellings have been Americanized. Other than that, I haven't noticed any major changes between the versions. If there are, http://www.co.uk.lspace.org/ would list 'em.

There apparently is a fairly major difference in the US/UK editions of Good Omens: Pratchett added one small scene at the end of the US edition (which I liked).

And I'd recommend the Truckers/Diggers/Wings stuff highly. It's easily as good as Discworld.

Fenris

[Gartog]

Another stand alone book would be Moving pictures, though I suggest this because I have just finished reading it and it's fresh in my mind. It was however very funny.

[aegypt]

Pyramids is another stand-alone book, and, in my opinion, the best. I like the way the supposedly humble priest Dios leads the entire kingdom by its nose through millenia...

[rjung]

Originally posted by Fenris
I've got the Streets of A-M too, plus all the Diaries (which are cool, but not much bang for the buck, The Diskworld Mappe and a few others.

I'm trying to remember if I have Mappe or not; the recent move left everything in shambles.

http://www.amazon.co.uk is my friend!.

Exchange rates and international shipping costs be damned!

And I've preordered my copy of The Last Hero too! ...th' heck's the Pratchett Portfolio?

It's a fairly thin (40 pages or so) "graphic novel-sized" paperback, with illustrations by Josh Kirby Paul Kidby? Whoever did the GURPS Discworld art, which I also have ), and assorted comments from Terry on the characters and how he developed them. Mostly black-and-white, but with some nice full-color pieces as well. If you've read GURPS Discworld then you've seen them, but it is nicer having them in color.

You might also consider getting the GURPS Discworld (and Discworld II, but not as much) suppliment. Pratchett wrote tons of stuff, you can ignore the gaming info, and there're beautiful Paul Kirby illos.

Didn't know there was a Discworld II. Hafta go check.

If you're truly obsessive, you might want to check Dejanews (or whatever the heck Google renamed it) for alt.books.pratchett.

I seldom have time for Usenet these days, but I do lurk around the L-space web site from time to time, just to see how things are. Unfortunately, they're not very good at updating the quotes these days, which was largely my motivation for creating my own massive Terry Pratchett quote archive...

As far as I've noticed, the main differences in the US/UK editions are that you have your choice of bad Josh Kirby covers (he drew Twoflowers with four eyes! Geddit!? Four-eyes!? Four! Yukkity-yukkity...yuck.), or bad, US "We have no idea how to market these books" Op-art covers

I actually like the UK covers -- they're very detailed and manic, and more interesting than the bland American ones. I'm still mildly upset at ordering The Truth from Amazon.com the other day just because I won't be getting a UK cover in the process.

As for a standalone Discworld book, Small Gods is great, but I also think you can throw Guards! Guards! at a newbie and it'll stick well.

[Fenris]

Originally posted by rjung
I actually like the UK covers -- they're very detailed and manic, and more interesting than the bland American ones. I'm still mildly upset at ordering The Truth from Amazon.com the other day just because I won't be getting a UK cover in the process.

Hey, who's gonna let shipping and exchange rates got in the way of a new Pratchett?

I certainly prefer the UK covers to the "I dunno how to market this stuff" US covers (I ordered The Truth from the UK, because of the ugliness of the US cover), but I don't like 'em. They're just better than the alternative.

The good news though, is that the new GURPS artist is doing the cover of The Last Hero and damn! does it look good! Finally, a Discworld cover I like!

Fenris

PS: You do have a copy of The Discworld Companion, right? If not, get it! It's great!

[Atreyu]

Originally posted by Fenris
I certainly prefer the UK covers to the "I dunno how to market this stuff" US

Well, I realize that this may make me a freak by your standards, but I actually prefer the U.S. edition covers over the U.K. editions. I got my hands on a U.K. version of Sourcery and I couldn't stand the cover. Too busy, and frankly I think they look cheap.

I kind of like the more understated approach taken by the U.S. editions. Except for the paperback version of Hogfather. You could use the cover art on that one to stun a bull.

[GuanoLad]

Originally posted by Fenris
PS: You do have a copy of The Discworld Companion, right? If not, get it! It's great!

I have both versions.

[Dragonblink]

I think Wyrd Sisters is also a good stand-alone "What, you've never read Pratchett? Try this!" book. It's the first one I read, and it got me hooked for life. 'Course, it helps that I'm a Pagan Shakespeare fan (I had pTerry sign my stage copy of Macbeth; the autograph reads "Beft wifhes W. Shakespear").

Am I the only one who kinda liked Strata?

[Gartog]

If Strata has got men who fly boats in it then I enjoyed it. But I think the DiscWorld stuff is better.

If it is the one I'm thinking of then a story set in that world was given to every child last year on National book day(UK) I think it was written just for that purpose.

But then I could be wrong.

[rjung]

Originally posted by Fenris

Hey, who's gonna let shipping and exchange rates got in the way of a new Pratchett?

Not I, but sicne I just bought a house and have to watch every penny, luxuries like UK Pratchett covers have to be sacrificed. (Note that I'm not sacrificing Pratchett books all together -- hey, I have limits!).

The good news though, is that the new GURPS artist is doing the cover of The Last Hero and damn! does it look good!

He's also illustrating the book -- which is why he's listed in the credits, and why it was worth buying in hardcover. Bad enough that the illustrated version of Eric is so hard to find...

You do have a copy of The Discworld Companion, right?

Of course. But I don't know what's in the other edition GuanoLad is referring to...?

Originally posted by Dragonblink
Am I the only one who kinda liked Strata?

No, you're not -- I kinda liked it too, though I admit it's not his best work. It's certainly not as bad as some folks would claim.

[Fenris]

Originally posted by rjung Of course. But I don't know what's in the other edition GuanoLad is referring to...?[/b]

There're two editions: an original one and a much expanded and updated later edition. Sort of a version 1.0 and 2.0.

Fenris

[Yookeroo]

Originally posted by Fenris

If you're truly obsessive, you might want to check Dejanews (or whatever the heck Google renamed it) for alt.books.pratchett. Pterry used to post there regularly, until about a year ago when (IIRC) some nitwit(s?) started posting story ideas. Pterry didn't want to risk being sued if there was any overlap, so he stopped reading and posting. <sigh>

Fenris [/b]

He's posting again in both groups.

[Yue Han]

I'll second Reaper Man as a first book, but be sure you get the right edition. In some editions it has been f-ed up so that Azreal's answer is on the facing page, so you see it before you read the question. Pratchett complained that he wrote 500 extra words to get the answer onto the next page.

I did not quote Death's speech there in the list of quotes the influence you, but I think maybe I should have, so here it is.

LORD, WE KNOW THERE IS NO GOOD ORDER EXCEPT THAT WHICH WE CREATE...

THERE IS NO HOPE BUT US. THERE IS NO MERCY BUT US. THERE IS NO JUSTICE.

THERE IS JUST US.

ALL THINGS THAT ARE, ARE OURS. BUT WE MUST CARE. FOR IF WE DO NOT CARE, WE DO NOT EXIST. IF WE DO NOT EXIST, THEN THERE IS NOTHING BUT BLIND OBLIVION.

AND EVEN OBLIVION MUST END SOME DAY. LORD, WILL YOU GRANT ME JUST A LITTLE TIME? FOR THE PROPER BALANCE OF THINGS. TO RETURN WHAT WAS GIVEN. FOR THE SAKE OF PRISONERS AND THE FLIGHT OF BIRDS.

LORD, WHAT CAN THE HARVEST HOPE FOR, IF NOT FOR THE CARE OF THE REAPER MAN?

--John

[Fenris]

Originally posted by Yookeroo
Originally posted by Fenris
He's posting again in both groups.

Cool! Thanks for the news!

:: rushes off to subscribe and get all new messages ::

Fenris