An english lesson please

[Greathouse]

Ok, I see people use the letters SO all the time on here. I know it stands for Significant Other. My question is when using things like SO would say I have "an SO" or "a SO". When I see the letters SO I read it as if it were the full words typed out which would make using A correct, but if you just read it as the letters then AN sounds better. When using abreviations do you use A/AN like you were using the full words or like you were just saying the letters in the abreviation.

(I know my grammer and spelling suck already, Get over it.)

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Thanks,

Daniel

[Beruang]

Check out
http://www.randomhouse.com/jesse/?date=19970804

[AWB]

I believe that if you use the acronym in writing, you assume it's pronounced as the letters and use "a" or "an" appropriately. E.g.:
An FBI agent was died. A Federal Bureau of Investigation spokesman said it was of natural causes.

Here's a trick one. Which is correct[list=1][*]a unionized employee[*]an unionized employee[/list=1]

Both are. #1 refers to an employee who is a member of a union. #2 refers to an employee who has had all his ions removed.

[AWB]

Egads! My example was supposed to read:

An FBI agent died.

[Liberal]

But, a FEMA agent died.

English articles follow phonemic rules.

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"It is lucky for rulers that men do not think." — Adolf Hitler

[Greathouse]

An FBI agent died.

But, a FEMA agent died.

So I would assume that from these examples that you use AN when actually saying the letters that make up the abreviation or acronym, but use A when saying the abreviation or acronym like it was a word all it's own.

But in the case of expressions that aren't quite a recognized, like SO, would I say "I have an SO." or I have a SO."?

Correct?

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Thanks,

Daniel

[Nickrz]

Either way, it sounds like you're saying "I have an asshole." Why not just say girl or boyfriend?

[Greathouse]

HA!

Good one Nick. Never thought about it.

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Thanks,

Daniel

[Jois]

Thanks for noting this site. http://www.randomhouse.com/jesse/?date=19970804

This is quite a difference between what we say and what we write. We slop around all kinds of words, phrases and half phrases as we speak - using an, a, ar but you just can't get away with that in writing....

It's the first time I've seen the difference between "a SO" and "an SO" explained in writing. And you were right all the time. Good Ear! (Hey, if they can say "Good Eye" in softball and baseball, why not.")

[Mr Thin Skin]

Ok, now that everyone is limbered up and full of flame, let me ask this.

Why SO instead of S.O. I think SO could be confused with "so," as in "so what."

[Jois]

Very funny, Mr. T. S., and my guess is just bother of adding in the extra... and spaces.

[Liberal]

English articles are always phonemic, including the definite article. Though always written "the", the definite article is pronounce "thee" in front of a vowel sound, as in "the apple" (thee apple), but "thuh" in front of a consonant sound, as in "the bank" (thuh bank).

So, if you want what you write to be pronounced "ess oh", then write "an SO", otherwise, write "a SO".

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"It is lucky for rulers that men do not think." — Adolf Hitler

[RealityChuck]

Note that the use of "a" or "an" can differentiate whether you're calling it "SO" as an abbreviation, or just pronoucing "so" (as in "so what?").

"An" is always used for the phonetic vowel sound, not the way it's written. We say "an hour" despite the fact that "h" is a consonant. Since the letter "S" is pronounced with a initial vowel sound, acronyms beginning with "s" usually take "an."

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"East is east and west is west and if you take cranberries and stew them like applesauce they taste much more like prunes than rhubarb does." -- Marx

Read "Sundials" in the new issue of Aboriginal Science Fiction. www.sff.net/people/rothman

[Chef Troy]

Better you should call your honey by this acronym: POSSLQ (pronounced "POS-el-kew"). It stands for "Person of the Opposite Sex Sharing Living Quarters." All you gay couples, please don't feel offended by the apparently exclusionary nature of this acronym; after all, you have a perfectly serviceable referent in "partner." Due to the unfortunate bigotry of the government, only heterosexual couples need to differentiate between married and unmarried couples under one roof.

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Live a Lush Life
Da Chef

No, RealityChuck, you are wrong on that one. An acronym, by definition, is treated as a word.

Thus, you say "He is a SADD(Students Against Drunk Driving) member."

Not "He is an SADD member."

Nor would you say "I have an radar detector in my car."

[tomndebb]

I'd like to know why people are so intent on identifying their loved ones as old petroleum companies.


(BTW, POSSLQ had a corresponding term in PSSSLQ, but it never made it into popular parlance for obvious reasons of pronunciation.)

[SoulFrost]

HA! Esso...SO! NOW I get it!

Damn, I'm old.

-David

[NanoByte]

Well, it's shorter than Mobil-Exxon or Exxon-Mobil.

. . .which could bring up the question about how one should pronounce double exes. It should be /ksks/, right? And if it's only /ks/, can you tell me which ex is silent?

I'm also wondering if double double-us, as in 'powwow', should be called quadruple us.

Ray (This is all because I have all the important problems solved, you understand.)

[RealityChuck]

No, RealityChuck, you are wrong on that one. An acronym, by definition, is treated as a word.

Really? How do you pronounce FBI? As a single word or three letters? Do you say "A FBI Agent?"

How do you pronounce "UN" for "United Nations"? Do you say "An UN peacekeeping force"?

I don't think so.

Acronyms can be pronounced either as words or as a grouping of letters. (Some, like SFWA, are pronounced both ways.)

Since "SO" is not pronouced "so," it is treated as though you're pronouncing two separate letters.



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"East is east and west is west and if you take cranberries and stew them like applesauce they taste much more like prunes than rhubarb does." -- Marx

Read "Sundials" in the new issue of Aboriginal Science Fiction. www.sff.net/people/rothman

[Greathouse]

Ok...I was just using SO as an example. I don't actually use the term/abbreviation SO. I don't even have a significant other right now. With that said I think that it has been explained to where even I can understand it. (Hey, we all know more than the next guy about something. Obviously I don't know shit about grammar and spelling.) Thanks for your help.

Now then, just to recap, If the term/acronym/abbreviation starts with a vowel sound (not necessarily a vowel) then we use AN if it starts with a consonant sound then we use A. I hope that's right. If not I'm giving up on the English language and only use sign language.

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Thanks,

Daniel

[Greathouse]

Ok...I was just using SO as an example. I don't actually use the term/abbreviation SO. I don't even have a significant other right now. With that said I think that it has been explained to where even I can understand it. (Hey, we all know more than the next guy about something. Obviously I don't know shit about grammar and spelling.) Thanks for your help.

Now then, just to recap, If the term/acronym/abbreviation starts with a vowel sound (not necessarily a vowel) then we use AN if it starts with a consonant sound then we use A. I hope that's right. If not I'm giving up on the English language and only use sign language.

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Thanks,

Daniel

[Flypsyde]

I think I have to side with Chuck on this one, TenHip. While the definition of acronym may make it a word, common usage does not. I have never once said "FUH-by agent", but rather "F-B-I agent". The initial sound of the noun to which the article refers determines which article it takes. If the name of the letter is pronounced, there may very well be an initial vowel sound, as in "eff". If the letter itself is pronounced, then there usually isn't.

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"Bodie, I noticed you stopped stuttering."
"I've been giving myself shock treatments."
"Up the voltage."
-Real Genius

[Greathouse]

Sorry for the double posts.

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-Jesus Saves
He passes to Mike Modano. THEY SCORE!!!

[Nickrz]

Tennhippie speaks the righteous truth.
FBI, UN and SO are not acronyms. If you say the actual letters, they are abbreviations.

[cantara]

i've heard that an acronym is only considered such if the resulting grouping of letters makes up a pronouncable word (RADAR, LASER). other than that, it is considered initialism (FBI). but i still have arguments with my dad about UFOs (him ufo, me U.F.O.)

if the word following the a(n) starts with a vowel sound (ah,ay,ee,eh,ih,ie,oe,aw,oo,uh) then you require the (n), if the word begins with a consonant sound (which in the above examples includes yu for union) the (a) will suffice.

so now, if you wish the reader to interpret it a specific way, then use the appropriate form: "a SO" suggests "a S.O.", whereas "an SO" suggests "an so"

Thanks, Nickrz.
RealityChuck, you did make the following assertion:
"...acronyms beginning with 's' usually take 'an'."
I wasn't arguing the "SO" question; I could go either way on that (and I am braced for the bi jokes). I was simply taking issue with that last statement.
As others pointed out, an abbreviation does not an acronym make.

[Jois]

So, Daniel, do you remember when your mother told you to be careful what you ask for...?

[cantara]

except that the last paragraph should read the [bold]OPPOSITE![/bold]

so now, if you wish the reader to interpret it a specific way, then use the appropriate form: [bold]"an SO"[/bold] suggests [bold]"an S.O."[/bold], whereas [bold]"a SO"[/bold] suggests [bold]"a so"[/bold].

[cantara]

and that I shold've checked the UBB codes first! sorry for the mess!

except that the last paragraph should read the OPPOSITE!

so now, if you wish the reader to interpret it a specific way, then use the appropriate form: "an SO" suggests "an S.O.", whereas "a SO" suggests "a so".

[heretic]

As has been pointed out: FBI, CIA, etc. are not acronyms. FEMA, NATO, UNESCO are.

However, in Ireland there exists an organisation called PDFORRA (Permanent Defence Forces Other Ranks Representative Association - it's kind of an army trade union). It's pronounced Pee Dee Forra. Does that make it a halfronym?

ben

[RealityChuck]

Please note, I never said that SO was an acronym. I called it an abbreviation.

Further, "acronym" is often used in a nontechnical sense to mean anything formed using the initials of a phrase.

And whatever you call them, if you pronounce the letters separately -- like in SO -- it takes "a" or "an" depending on the pronunciation of the first letter.

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"East is east and west is west and if you take cranberries and stew them like applesauce they taste much more like prunes than rhubarb does." -- Marx

Read "Sundials" in the new issue of Aboriginal Science Fiction. www.sff.net/people/rothman

[CurtC]

SoulFrost wrote:
HA! Esso...SO! NOW I get it!
Damn, I'm old.

Maybe not old enough - before "Esso", it was called "S.O.", for "Standard Oil".

By the way - I've never heard of the phrase "significant other" abbreviated as "S.O." (before this thread) - am I too old?

-Curt

BTW, from what I've seen on this MB, a lot of SOs are assholes, IMHO.

[NanoByte]

CurtC:

Well, there are probably some IOs (insignificant others) around for us and other insignificants.

Ray (My other name is not an acronym.)

[moriah]

One simple rule: Read it aloud, then use the appropriate indefinite article.

Acronyms (a new and complete word formed from initial letters or initial parts of other words) are read as a word (and not read by reading the letters). So...

Scuba mask is read aloud as (scu'-bah) mask. Not Ess see ewe bee ay mask. So, it is a scuba mask.

[ Trivia ]Self contained underwater breathing apparatus -- J. Costeau[ /Trivia ]

The same holds true for a NATO general, a laser beam, a MADD pamphlet, an Interpol criminal. You don't say the letters of an acronym -- ever. You read the word it spells.

Abbreviations are trickier because sometimes the abbreviation is pronounced by its letters, and sometimes the abbreviation is pronounced by the full, unabbreviated title of the thing being abbreviated.

For example, in the phrase Senator from NJ, the state is always read aloud as New Jersey, and never as enn jay even if it is abbreviated in print, and you're reading that abbreviation aloud. And so, you'd write, a NJ Senator, because you'd say it (out loud or in your mind) as a New Jersey Senator.

However, some abbreviations are read aloud as the letters of the abbreviation, since we say the abbreviation out loud as well as write it that way. In the sentence I didn't trust the nurse, so I got an M.D. to look at it, the abbreviation is read (aloud and in one's head) as an emm dee.

So, it'd be proper to write an M.D. from a MD city.

The really tricky part comes from some abbreviations that can go both ways, or newly coined abbreviations where there has been no clear pattern established.

So, when you read my S.O. (or SO) got me a Valentine's Day gift, do you read it aloud as ess oh or as significant other? Whichever is the norm, or the intent of the author, will determine whether to use a or an.

Peace.

A m. posting.

[Greathouse]

The really tricky part comes from some abbreviations that can go both ways, or newly coined abbreviations where there has been no clear pattern established.

So, when you read my S.O. (or SO) got me a Valentine's Day gift, do you read it aloud as ess oh or as significant other? Whichever is the norm, or the intent of the author, will determine whether to use a or an.

Thank you.

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-Jesus Saves
He passes to Mike Modano. THEY SCORE!!!