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  #1  
Old 10-24-2001, 02:42 PM
Breezy Breezy is offline
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I have been wondering about this since I saw a made-for-TV movie about it on the Hallmark chanel.

Does anyone have links to pictures of the REAL Anastasia and to the woman who claimed to BE Anastasia? I'm so intrigued by the idea that she could have REALLY been the long lost princess, and her family wouldn't meet with her, or help her out.

any smart history buffs out there who can clue me in??

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  #2  
Old 10-24-2001, 02:51 PM
bernse bernse is offline
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There was a thread about this before, I think.

Did she live through the execution? I don't think so. I believe her remains were found.

There was some old lady that claimed to be her in the US. Proved to be false via a DNA test. Of course, there are her believers that say the test was wrong.

Yeah, right....
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  #3  
Old 10-24-2001, 02:51 PM
ShrekLookAlike ShrekLookAlike is offline
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I could be mistaken, but I seem to recall that after the woman who claimed to be Anastasia died, a DNA sample was taken which showed she was not in any way related to the Romanovs.

Sorry, nothing I can cite. Perhaps somebody more familiar with this can help.
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  #4  
Old 10-24-2001, 03:14 PM
ShrekLookAlike ShrekLookAlike is offline
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Just out of curiosity I did a Google search and found several sites that pretty much confirm my first post. A grave was found that contained remains believed to be most of the Romanovs. Although there were not enough remains to account for all of them, there was enough dna available to match with Prince Philip of Britain who's Grand Aunt was the Czarina. They tested dna from the old lady "Anna" who claimed to be Anastasia and the results were negative.
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  #5  
Old 10-24-2001, 04:02 PM
yabob yabob is offline
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Another data point - I remember an account of the recent excavation of the gravesite, too. There may be a missing body, but it would have to be of one of the other sisters, not Anastasia - remains consistent with a girl of Anastasia's age were found, as well as remains consistent with the oldest sister. One of the middle two could possibly have been missing from the grave.
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  #6  
Old 10-24-2001, 04:41 PM
Guinastasia Guinastasia is offline
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It is HIGHLY unlikely that ANYONE survived the massacre-period. Remember-Anastasia's dog was clubbed to death-and he had been her arms during the whole thing.

http://www.alexanderpalace.org

http://www.naotmaa.com

Look up Who is Missing-run by my friends.

Trust me-Anna Anderson was NOT Anastasia. I think she did BELIEVE that she was Anastasia-but she was mistaken.

(I'm an amateur Romanov expert, of sorts, at least around here)
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  #7  
Old 10-24-2001, 04:49 PM
Guinastasia Guinastasia is offline
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Oh, and a couple of nitpicks:

her name would not be Anastasia Romanov-but Anastasia Nikolaievna Romanova. Or Anastasia Romanova, if you will. She was NOT a princess, but a Russian Grand Duchess.
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  #8  
Old 10-24-2001, 05:56 PM
Osip Osip is offline
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Ah the wonderful Anna Anderson.
Every time I see or hear her name I want to jump and scream.

"I am Demitri!!"

Um.. ok I shall go now.
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  #9  
Old 10-24-2001, 11:21 PM
Markxxx Markxxx is offline
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I saw on PBS's Nova not only did they prove the woman who claimed to be Anastasia wasn't but they did a test on a DNA from a man believed to be her brother. It came back positive.

She wasn't related to the Romanovs
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  #10  
Old 10-25-2001, 12:28 AM
Bossk Bossk is offline
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According to The Casebook of Forensic Detection:

"...She was not Princess Anastasia but a neurotic Polish peasant named Franzisca Schanzkowska, who had vanished in 1920. Later that same year, she was pulled from a cnal in Berlin and began her longstanding deception. Members if the Schanzkowska family, who had long suspected that Anna Anderson was their missing relative, provided the DNA samples that fixed her identity."


If you happen to catch reruns of the 70s show In Search Of... on the History Channel, one episode is devoted to this case and "Anna" is interviewed. I'm not sure if it was senility or drunkeness, but it was quite clear from watching the show that this was a old woman who was not in command of her faculties.
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  #11  
Old 10-25-2001, 12:35 AM
Chickenhead Chickenhead is offline
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Yes I did.
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  #12  
Old 10-25-2001, 08:59 AM
Duck Duck Goose Duck Duck Goose is offline
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PBS NOVA doesn't have the transcript posted, but it was "Anastasia Dead or Alive?" and it originally aired 05/21/96, if you wanna order it from WGBH.
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  #13  
Old 10-25-2001, 09:36 AM
Cliffy Cliffy is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Guinastasia
Or Anastasia Romanova, if you will.
You're right of course, but since we're speaking in English on this board it's not incorrect for us to apply English naming conventions when transliterating; after all, her real name is written in Cyrillic.

--Cliffy
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  #14  
Old 10-25-2001, 09:50 AM
SisterCoyote SisterCoyote is offline
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In the excellent forensic book Dead Men Do Tell Tales by William Maples (unfortunately now deceased) the author spends an entire chapter on the Romanovs, whose skeletons he was allowed to inspect.

He, too, concludes that Anastasia did not survive; partly from the tale the bones told, partly from eyewitness testimony from one of the men (Grigori Nikulin) who took part in the assassination.
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  #15  
Old 10-25-2001, 09:53 AM
carnivorousplant carnivorousplant is offline
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Can you imagine what is was like when Anna Anderson and the guy pretending to be the Tsarevitch met?
Both had to make the decision, is he real or another prentender? What if (s)he is real? Can I fake out a sibling?

BTW I understand that the women survived the gunfire due to jewelry hidden in their clothing and were bayoneted or beaten to death.

Damn Reds.
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  #16  
Old 10-25-2001, 09:57 AM
Breezy Breezy is offline
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Thanks for all the info, everyone. Anastasia's story is so sad! It's too bad that Anna wasn't Anastasia... The movie I watched really made it look like she was, but you know how movies are.. They stray from fact a tad. haha

Thanks again!

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  #17  
Old 10-25-2001, 12:15 PM
Guinastasia Guinastasia is offline
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Well, Anna Anderson was used by a lot of people, who took advantage of an unstable woman.

It was obvious she had some sort of mental illness, if you read about her-the many many cats and dogs that she kept, which made her home FILTHY-wall to wall pet food and litter and cat and dog poop everywhere-the smell was supposed to be hideous-the garbage piled up everywhere, the hording, the paranoia, etc etc.

Okay, Anastasia and her sisters WERE wearing corsets with jewelry sewn in the lining. HOWEVER, Olga, who died almost instantly, was killed after being shot in the face. Yes, they were wearing corsets, but they did manage to bayonet them, eventually.
Also, Anderson claimed that she along with her mother and sisters, were taken to Perm into hiding-which was the belief of the authors of the book File on the Tsar. This was later proven false.

Two good books:

The Romanovs-the Final Chapter by Robert K. Massie, author of Nicholas and Alexandra, who also won a Pulitzer for his bio of Peter the Great.

Anastasia: the Riddle of Anna Anderson by Peter Kurth. This is what the tv movie, The Mystery of Anna, was based on. The movie, while inaccurate, was excellent, in my opinion, due to the actors and the very real bio of Anna herself. It didn't really SAY whether or not she was the Real McCoy, but it was true that Anderson was in love with a German prince who was killed in the 2nd WW, from what I understand-a Heinrich Reuss. And I did like that Erik stood by her-that it didn't matter to him WHO she was. And Omar Sharif was fantastic as Nicholas, even though he didn't look like him at all. The movie also featured a young Christian Bale as Alexei.



Although the part about the surgeon's son leaving her alone-that's not true-Gleb Botkin was one of her most vocal and often NASTIEST of supporters. He once wrote a horribly rude and very accusatory letter to her aunts, Xenia and Olga, whom he accused of denying their "niece" because of monetary concerns. And I believe he made these accusations VERY publically. Anyone who has studied the family and especially Olga Alexandrovna know that would be totally false. Olga A was probably closer to Anastasia than any of her other relatives. She did feel sorry for Anderson-then going by Anna Tchaikovsky-and sent her a scarf once, when she found out how sick and poor the woman was. But she said that there was no way it was her niece, that the real Anastasia had been like a daughter to her, and that Anderson mixed up many facts. And Anastasia's tutors-Gilliard and Gibbes, also said Anderson wasn't the real Anastasia. Gilliard, I will admit, was something of an anti-semite in later years, but he and Gibbes had seen Anastasia very shortly before the execution-so I would take their words.
The Botkin children were also not as close to the children as they claimed-they only saw them once in a blue moon. They communicated through Dr. Botkin, their father, who was killed with the family-they would ask after one another, and say hi and send notes-but they were not frequent visitors to Tsarskoe Selo.


(BTW, Anderson did not meet with the man claiming to the be the Tsarevich. It was another Anastasia wannabe-Eugenia Smith-who met with him.)
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  #18  
Old 10-25-2001, 12:28 PM
IzzyR IzzyR is offline
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Was she a full time pretender - did she make a living out of her act? Or she she live an ordinary life and in addition claim to be a duchess?
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  #19  
Old 10-25-2001, 12:42 PM
DAVEW0071 DAVEW0071 is offline
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You mean there wasn't a long trip to Paris to meet the Dowager Empress, and her falling in love with the kitchen boy who saved her? And there was no little white bat named Bartok? And...and...and....

Oh, I feel so used! What a fool I was to think that film was a documentary! Damn you, Don Bluth! All dogs may go to heaven, but you, sir, shall burn in the fiery pits of hell!
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  #20  
Old 10-25-2001, 12:45 PM
wring wring is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by SisterCoyote
In the excellent forensic book Dead Men Do Tell Tales by William Maples (unfortunately now deceased)
I'm sorry, I just felt this little snippet should stand alone.
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  #21  
Old 10-25-2001, 01:05 PM
carnivorousplant carnivorousplant is offline
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WHile we have the Russian experts gathered...

My favorite line from history, true or false?

Rasputin, having been poisioned, stabbed, beaten by Yussopov and his fellow conspirators, flees across the ice while he is being shot, where he will drown under the ice having freed himself from his bonds, screaming "I'm going to tell the Empress, Felix! I'm going to tell the Empress!"
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  #22  
Old 10-25-2001, 05:04 PM
Guinastasia Guinastasia is offline
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Honestly, no one is really sure WHAT happened. I wouldn't put Yussupov past exaggerations.

Anderson was incapable of earning a living, and usually lived off of the charity of others. I wouldn't call her an imposter, exactly. She truly did BELIEVE she was Anastasia. But she was mistaken.
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  #23  
Old 10-25-2001, 05:32 PM
Gatopescado Gatopescado is offline
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good ole Raspy's official cause of death was listed as "hypothermia". he was one tough old bird............
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  #24  
Old 10-25-2001, 06:38 PM
Speaker for the Dead Speaker for the Dead is offline
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Could someone give me a quick rundown of Rasputine's death (and a brief 'why)?
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  #25  
Old 10-25-2001, 09:00 PM
carnivorousplant carnivorousplant is offline
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Rasputin, a member of a strange religious sect, was apparently able to provide relief for the Tsarevitch's hemophilia, hence was very popular with Alexandra.
The police reported on his drunken orgies and whoremongering, and were disbelieved by the Tsarina. She was already unpopular with the people during WWI due to her German heritage.
Considered to be a dangerous influence, Rasputin was killed by Prince Felix Yussopov. Invited to Y.'s home, Gregory was fed poision cakes washed down with poisioned wine to no ill effect. The conspirators were playing Yankee Doodle on a phonograph upstairs where Mrs. Rasputin was supposed to be.
Rasputin remarked on the price of a religious relic in a case, Yussopov remarked that he should reflect on mortality and shot him. He apparently beat on the body with a stick. SOmetime later, Rasputin recovered and ran outside where he was shot again. His bound body, was thrown into the river. When found the next day, he had freed himself and tried to crawl to an air pocket in the ice where he either drown or froze to death.
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  #26  
Old 10-25-2001, 09:15 PM
carnivorousplant carnivorousplant is offline
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P.S.

The Tsar was away at the front leading the Russian Steamroller to death by millions. Rasputin was whispering advice about running the country into the ear of the believing German born Tsarina. So, they whacked him. A sensible solution, but they did it far to late.
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  #27  
Old 10-26-2001, 01:22 AM
Captain Amazing Captain Amazing is offline
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Re: P.S.

Quote:
Originally posted by carnivorousplant
A sensible solution, but they did it far to late.
A better time probably would have been when he first appeared at court. He was a bad influence on an already dying court. Does anyone know if the rumors that he had a sexual relationship with the Empress are true or not?
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  #28  
Old 10-26-2001, 01:28 AM
bibliophage bibliophage is offline
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I'm pretty sure I remember hearing about a book that debunked the story of Rasputin being poisoned and shot and beaten before being thrown in the river. I never read the book but I think it came out a year or two ago. I can't remember the title and author.
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  #29  
Old 10-26-2001, 07:50 AM
carnivorousplant carnivorousplant is offline
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Re: Re: P.S.

Quote:
Originally posted by Captain Amazing
Quote:
Originally posted by carnivorousplant
A sensible solution, but they did it far to late.
A better time ...rumors...with the Empress
Hindsight is the...well, the something, particularly of Russians.

A relationship with the Empress...her close friend, whose name escapes me...Anna Vubronia?, survived the revolution and was forced by those nasty Reds to submit to an examiniation. Her hymen was found to be intact. What assholes!

Does anyone know if Rasputin's...er, thingie, wart and all, was preserved by Russian aristos afterwards?
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