jenkinsfan: One Trick Pony

[Satan]

I was unsure where to post this. Surely, there is no Greatt Debate here, nor would it even qualify in our new Great Debates Lite forum. And in spite of what might get said in subsequentt postings here, I really don't see this as Pit worthy. owever, I did feel the need to bring this to jenkingsfan's attention and also too everyone else who might benefit from it.

This is not a board dedicated to any one subjectt. It is a board where you can discuss anything, and as such I find it a shame that you seem to only be here to discuss one thing.

I went over your posting histor, jenkinsfan. I wanted to see if I was right, if you ever did once not post as a "Christian," but as a person. Here is what I found.

I did not even look in these threads, as your postings definitely had to have fit the stereotype that you have allowed for yourself:

• Need prayer?
• Scripture verses.
• More Scripture Verses
• All religions are right about this.
• Why are Christians afraid of death?
• Scripture Verses.
• Catholics not Christians?
• Why the hell do we have religion?
• What makes a good Christian?
• What exactly is a Fundamentalist?
• The Gospel according to the Bible.
• OK - Assuming God Created the World...
• The Empty Tomb
• If you had lived during New Testament times would you have accepted Christ?
• Question to Atheists.
• Are all believers self-righteous?
• Christians, does this offend you?
• Why do people put their faith in God?
• Christian Coalition?

Now, of course, if your posts there do not somehow involve you wearing your Christianity on yoru sleeve, I'm sure someone will correct me, but I haven't the time to check every post you have made.

The remainder of your posts are as follows:

• Just listen to yourselves...: This actually is a religious thread.
• How do you react to a nuclear attack?: He says he'd pray, in the middle of a discussion about real tactics one could use.
• Give Some Meaning to Love: He answers this with, "The Bible teaches that the purest form of love..." and quotesScripture.
• Ask the Gay Guy II!: Asks how being gay affects ones religion.
• Anti-abortion question: "Even if I weren't such a fundamental Christian, I would still say abortion is wrong," and his follow-up post begins, "God created human beings in His image." Several subsequent posts use the Bible as his measuring stick in this issue.
• The Shelf Life of a Government/Economic System: In this issue, he starts off his post with the subnjectt "CAPITALISM, GOD'S WAY." and uses Scripture to talk about an issue that did not involve reliigion until he showed up.
• Am I allowed to be a freethinker?: (Yes, an ironic thread for jenkinsfan to reply to since we all know the answer in his case must me "No.") This was, as well, a religious thread.
• The Fat vs Thin debate in America: His post in full: ""...for I am fearfully and wonderfully made..." Psalm 139:14 Maybe Hollywood should start promoting that!"
• What does your name mean?: Even though it gave him a chance to plug how his name was for the guy who co-writes the Left Behind series, and even though the arcives had a similar thread he might have been able to reply to if he was reading the board instead of witnessing, I will cut him a small break on this one, if onlyy because his one follow-up post did not witness or mention Jesus.
• Why must people curse?: Starts out the OP "Being a Christian I try to refrain from vulgar language..." Several posters saw what was really happening here.
• who feels love?: His entire post: "'Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.' John 15:33" His entire second post: "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whososever believes in Him, should not perish but have everlasting life. John 3:16" (Kudos to Dopers here for pointing out that Christianity is NOT a very good example of unconditional love, something jenkinsfan couldn't quite respond to.
• Sex & Children: "I have mixed feelings about where I stand in this debate, but allow me to illustrate the fundie's view..." Again, aligning himself as something, and we all know what that something is.
• Edit your post here!!!: Here, jenkinsfan managed to NOT bring God into the equation. I applaud his constraint in being able to do so in the About This Message Board forum.
• Beakerxf: A continuation of a religious debate with the poster named.
• Understanding each other.: I suppose the only way we can understand each other is to say what religious beliefs we hold.
• The new Dollar Coin... yea or nay: I thought, how could he drag God into this one? Here's how: His post in full is, "I like the new coins as long as they continue to force my religion down yer throats with 'In God we trust'. "
• Understanding each other.: The closed-down Great Debates version of same thread.
• Elian: Again, I must give him props here, since thee only thing he wrote was "Well said" to a complaint on how many Elian threads there already were. I wonder if he would say "Well said" to a complaint about too much witnessing?
• Mad Max!! David B's favorite proselytizer: A thread about campus preachers.
• Class Action Tobacco Law Suits: In this thread, he just asks me how I quit smoking and also adds, "Prayen' for ya'(whether you like it or not )"

Okay, of jenkinsfan's 115 or so posts, less than 1% of them are not about Jesus, and an overwhelming percentage of them are just wiitnessing.

The point oof this excersise is to ask jenkinsfan why he is here? If he wants to discuss theology exclusively, aren't there a ton of boards that are devoted to that? If he wants to talk about other things, why does he never post about them? And if he indeed is simply here to witness, why doesn't he get the clue that it won't work here, is not wanted here, and that the best witnessing here is done by the likes of Polycarp who are well-rounded posters who are not shy about their beliefs, but do not only talk of them exclusively?

This could also be applied to people other than jenkinsfan, though I cannot think of any good examples.

In closing, I am not asking you to leave, jenkinsfan. But I left the LBMB when it occured to me that my own brand of witnessing - for the facts regarding multi-culturalism, science and US government - was being ignored, and I had learned all I needed to about those of that view-point.

When will you come to the same conclusion here? Because unless you want to get bast stereotyping yourself as "that Christian guy," you will.

And in the meantime, you will be treated by other posters as the characature that you paint as yourself, as well as showing people that one needs to be all about Jesus if they are to be a Christian, and you know what? Some of us would find that pretty negative and cultish - not the most effective witnessing tool IMHO.

Is this what you want? How hard would it be for you to post about other subjects, put your own views in about... Well, ANYTHING?!? Or is this really how you are?

Either way, is this how you want to come off looking?

__________________
Yer pal,
Satan

TIME ELAPSED SINCE I QUIT SMOKING:
One month, three weeks, four days, 20 hours, 47 minutes and 21 seconds.
2234 cigarettes not smoked, saving $279.33.
Life saved: 1 week, 18 hours, 10 minutes.

[aha]

(Bowing head)

Amen brother

[red_dragon60]

Damn Straight!

[WallyM7]

Some people try to convince others of their sincerity.

And some try to convince themselves.

I think Mr. jenkinsfan is trying to do both.


And I notice that his Martyr Complex is in perfect working condition.

[Jo3sh]

Sadly, this is not a trait that jenkinsfan alone among Christians (or even among religious people) has. Many Christian people I have met have had a knack for turning ANY topic of conversation into a religious debate. Frankly, it gets old pretty quickly. This is probably the main reason that I don't have very many close Christian friends. I should clarify that this is NOT because I have anything against Christianity, but simply because the conversations get pretty boring after a while.

[Ruffian]

I'd just like to say I stopped frequenting a Christian message board over a year ago because the conversations were so aggravatingly circular, judgmental, hypocritical, and blind. Was it everyone? No. But it was the noisiest, most frequent posters--thus making up at least 60-70% of the posts--that felt a) all topics had to be reverted to religion, b) if you disagree with them, you must be wrong and told so enthusiastically, c) God lives in this box and never exists beyond it. Who were most sad weren't the ones who sat angrily passing judgment, but the well-meaning, but hopelessly blind, ones who lived in a strangely insular world. There was no explaining anything to them, and every post was saturated with Christian clichés and platitudes that are parroted in a manner that suggests a lack of thorough understanding of what they are truly saying.

Sadly enough, I used to be one of these people.

Strangely enough, it is these people who have helped contribute to the current near-formlessness of my faith. I am ultimately responsible, sure, but people who act and speak like they were absorbed by the Pod People didn't help.

He means well. He is sincere. He is, most likely, harmless. That he is a one trick pony isn't that unusual or remarkable. Just leave him be in his world; it works for him. That's pretty much what I left those at the Christian MB to do.

[vandal]

I was thinking the exact same thing, man.

Ever since the 'why must people curse' thread, I've noticed this trend with jenkinsfan. After that thread, he just kind of stopped posting for awhile, then came back and continued with the Christian semantics.

It is very annoying and futile to try to communicate with this person.

[Duck Duck Goose]

It's called "witnessing", and some Christians take it more seriously than others. Obviously, Jenkinsfan of the Straight Dope takes it very seriously indeed. I think we ought to at least credit the guy with the strength of his beliefs.

And golly, if he wants to drag God into every little-bitty discussion of oven cleaning, tap dancing, your favorite flavor of pop, and whether the toilet paper roll ought to hang over or under, well, I guess that's his privilege, the SDMB being the wonderful, freedom-embracing place it is. I don't have any problems steering around him every so often. I know people like him IRL, and I don't have any problems steering around them, either.

At least he isn't also selling Amway.

[WallyM7]

Ever since the 'why must people curse' thread, I've noticed this trend with jenkinsfan. After that thread, he just kind of stopped posting for awhile, then came back and continued with the Christian semantics.

It's curious that he is now being defended by several new posters.

Must be a coincidence.

[Devil In Disguise]

Wow Satan! Your research was thorough, your points were well thought out and your conclusions were fair.

Duck Duck Goose, I might respect jenkinsfan for his beliefs as I respect other avowed Christian posters but he went to far awhile back when he had a sig line that read something like "Eternity: Burning or not burning". I think he has the right to think that and maybe even state it in a debate as to how his views pertain, but to put that in someone's face whether he is right or wrong or if it is true or not, is calloused and inconsiderate.

[Mr. Cynical]

Satan, I love you. What say you dump that Drain Bead and marry me?

[DoctorJ]

Ordinarily, I wouldn't say anything about this. I mean, I feel like I talk about med school more than I should.

The only reason I said anything on the other thread was that I saw the thread a month or so ago at the LBMB, just before Jenkinsfan started posting here regularly, in which he said he was "going on another witnessing mission" to the SDMB. I didn't say anything on either board at the time.

JF, please don't think this is any slam on your beliefs. If you'll look back a few months, particularly in GD, you'll see the fallout that resulted when Libertarian managed to turn every single thread he posted in into a discussion of Liberterianism. Lib was, and is, one of my favorite posters around here, and his zeal for and confidence in Libertarianism matches yours for Christianity. However, you can only read so many posts about peaceful honest people before you want to peacefully and honestly yak.

All I'm trying to say is, try to look at us as something more than fodder for conversion.

Dr. J

PS: Thanks for the heads-up on the LBMB being in working order. They changed the link, so my bookmark was still taking me to the "routine maintenance" page. When I get through my Test from Hell on Wednesday and back from Key West, I'll ride in and start straightening out misunderstandings of evolution again.

[dragonlady]

Satan, why am I not surprised it was YOU who brought this up??? It's too perfect. Now, don't misunderstand, you made good points and were totally researched. But who would expect less from the Prince of Darkness on a religious theme???

[Bosda Di'Chi of Tricor]

Well, Satan; far be it from me to play "angel's advocate" ('cause Fundies really annoy me), but the "one trick pony" accusation could also apply to you.

Lately, I don't seem to recall any posts by you on any other topic other than your dislike of Fundies.

Yes, they're a pain in the buttocks---but what have you posted lately?

Where is the sparkling wit of posts gone by?
Your constant attacks constitute killing flies with a sledgehammer; or wrestling with the chipmunks over hickory nuts. You may win, or you may lose. If you lose , you look like an enormous goober. If you win, you get a hickory nut covered with chipmunk spit... and lose your dignity.

[vandal]

Wally, I'm not defending him.

[London_Calling]

Hmmm, I’m not sure why I feel the desire to respond to this OP. I am in no way religiously inclined and I do find the non-preaching agenda of institutional religion’s to be of questionable virtue. And I seriously dislike that closed-minded bible belt fundamentalism –and it is fundamentalism, however………..

I’m not clear why jenkinsfan got so harshly treated in his most recent thread nor why his (I assumed he was a she, no idea why) one trick pony is received with this degree of hostility. Also, I’m not clear as to whether it’s the subject matter itself or the fact that he only has one tune to march too that offends.

Satan you mentioned cultural diversity in your OP yet you chose to spend what must have been some time researching the posting history of someone who’s subject is about as common on this board as a virgin in a brothel. Jenkinsfan offers diversity. I'm not saying he needs to be embraced because of that but this doesn't feel right.

If it is just irritation, then I surely understand. I can only speak for myself but I don’t feel religion is being rammed down my throat. None of us need to open up the thread to view the (in jenkinsfan’s case) very obvious content and if it crops up in another thread, why not skip over it.

In the short time I’ve been posting here I’ve developed respect for you and for some of the others posting to this thread so it troubles me that you now appear to be intolerant.

Jenkinsfan is a fundamentalist therefore he pretty much only has one thing going on in his head. Perhaps I missed something here in which case I apologise but isn’t intolerance a sign of a closing mind and, in the wider context, a foreshadow of a potentially much darker future ?

[David B]

Satan, I was going to say that you have waaaay too much time on your hands, but then I saw that you dropped the LBMB, so I guess you made up for it by searching out all of jenkinsfan's stuff.

An interesting result, I must say. At least some of the other LBMBers who came over here for a little while tried to get involved in other discussions.

------------
"The most amusing threads on this board involve David B kicking some obnoxious creation scientist ass." -- Greyson3

[dragonlady]

Satan, on further reflection it occurs to me that what we have is a sub-species of troll. All we do is encourage him by noticing. And BTW I hadn't noticed his line of attack until you mentioned it. Thanks, now I'm annoyed. If you just can't resist the morbid facination involved in opening his threads aand reading his posts, don't respond! At least not on the boards where he can see it. Email a friend, call your mother, stop strangers on the street, but don't give him your time. That's what I did, I guess. Never noticed him at all, and now look what you made me do!

[dropzone]

Satan, I am in complete agreement with London_Calling, but I go beyond. I find the level of intolerance directed at Jenkinsfan by you and some of the others is appalling. I came to this board because it was INCLUSIVE, not EXCLUSIVE. I would like to be proud that I am a member, not ashamed.

So what if he wants to preach? You don't have to listen. Some people appreciated his offer of prayer.

You object to his theology? How dare you suggest ANYBODY has a false theology! His methods? You and I both find them annoying; his belief system tells him that they are the right methods. You are offended by the suggestion that he has the only way? I am sure he finds your name or some of the threads here at least as offensive.

Your "Look! Look! Look! These are the bad things he has done!" list appears to others as pathetically defensive, like a child trying to justify himself. Get over yourself and your need to be right.

SATAN, YOUR BLATANT HATRED AND DISCRIMINATORY BEHAVIOR ARE NOT APPROPRIATE NOR WELCOME HERE. If you plan to continue in that vein I would like to ask you to take your bigotry to another board.

[Shayna]

London pretty much stated my thoughts. Satan, you know I think a lot of you, but this thread is just wrong on so many levels.

[Saint Zero]

I have to agree with the above. I've never _heard_ of the guy, but don't we all have a right to our beliefs? Some Christians feel led to witness everywhere, some to extremes. I don't recall anyone being forced to listen. I'll say that was an extremely gracious counter and well researched post you did.

I've been on a certain IRC Channel for 5 years now, and I'm scared to open my mouth for fear of being attacked viciously for being conservative to a degree. I'd hate to see everyplace become unsafe to speak ones mind intelligently.

[Weirddave]

I guess I'll echo London. Live and let live is usualy my mantra. He's not hurting anyone, and if you believe differently and want a debate, who better than a passionate believer? If not, ehh, ignore him.

[lswote]

I don't like jenkinsfan as a poster because for about a month he/she had a signature that said "ETERNITY: SMOKING OR NONSMOKING". This meant no matter what thread I was in, if jenkinsfan had posted in it, I had to see that sig which I think is very offensive.

I even came up with my own little sig "ETERNITY: EVISCERATED OR NON EVISCERATED?" and had it point to a thread in the pit I created trying to mock jenkinsfan's method of proselytizing.

[yosemite]

You know, not to belabour the point, Satan, but don't you have better things to do?

That was the first thing that came to my mind in reading your lengthy and comprehensive post. My goodness, the research. And for what? For some overzealous guy who many of us (including me) have successfully ignored. Some overzealous guy who is probably going to get ZERO out of all your hard work. He'll just see it as further evidence that you are intolerant, or whatever. I suspect it won't even make a dent on him.

Hey - at least he isn't screaming this stuff on some street corner, or going door-to-door. He's real easy to ignore. I started ignoring him after reading about 10 of his posts.

As for what I think about this obsessive zeal some Christians have - yeah, I agree, it's sad. It gets SO tiring to have every conversation steered towards religion somehow. (And I'm a Christian, mind.) And it's utterly counter-productive, since it just tends to alienate people.

[Satan]

Bosda Di'Chi of Tricor:

Lately, I don't seem to recall any posts by you on any other topic other than your dislike of Fundies.

Most of my few posts recently have been in MPSIMS about various meetings and gatherings. Feel free to search my posts if you wish.

London_Calling:

I’m not clear why jenkinsfan got so harshly treated in his most recent thread nor why his (I assumed he was a she, no idea why) one trick pony is received with this degree of hostility.

My post here is not hostile, and my post on that thread was not hostile. The hostility was not from me, and it also did offend me somewhat, but I can see why people reacted that way, and my posts are both attempts to show jenkinsfan exactly why he is being treated like he is.

Satan you mentioned cultural diversity in your OP yet you chose to spend what must have been some time researching the posting history of someone who’s subject is about as common on this board as a virgin in a brothel.

Thank you for proving my point. Actually, we have a fairly large number of Christians here. It's just that the rest of them don't have to have every post about their faith. Which was my point.

dropzone:

I find the level of intolerance directed at Jenkinsfan by you and some of the others is appalling. I came to this board because it was INCLUSIVE, not EXCLUSIVE. I would like to be proud that I am a member, not ashamed.

As I said before, my post was not intolerant of Christianity, it was intolerant of redundancy. If you don't understand the difference, don't take it out on me.

So what if he wants to preach? You don't have to listen. Some people appreciated his offer of prayer.

"So what if I want to comment on the posting habits of someone? You don't have to listen. Some people appreciated and agreed with my comments."

Works both ways, doesn't it? So who exactly is holding that gun to your head making you litsen to what I typed?

Now, as I said before (and if I am guilty of redundancy, it's only because others are guilty of not paying attention), God, okay! Christianity, fine! This kind of shameless, repetitive witnessing? I have issues with it, so do others, and I adressed them a lot nicer than most of the others, thanks. And a lot nicer than you addressed me I might add.

Oh, and I'd suggest you not try and tell me what I should do and where I should take anything. You don't know me, I certainly don't know you, so unless you have read every one of my posts to see what I am about, then you best not make any rash judgments.

Shayna:

Satan, you know I think a lot of you, but this thread is just wrong on so many levels.

Far better just to give jenkinsfan a ton of shit when he does it like other posters (whom I mostly respect, I must add) did, right? Come on, Shayna, give me a break. I was nice about it all while others called the guy names. Did you lambast them? I don't think so.

Saint Zero:

I have to agree with the above. I've never _heard_ of the guy, but don't we all have a right to our beliefs?

Please do point out to me where I said that jenkinsfan or anyone else didn't have a right to their beliefs.

Some Christians feel led to witness everywhere, some to extremes. I don't recall anyone being forced to listen.

"Some posters feel led to point out the posting of other people, some to extremes. I don't recall anyone being forced to listen."

Is the same person holding the gun to dropzone's head holding one to your own?

I'd hate to see everyplace become unsafe to speak ones mind intelligently.

Aside from his direct Biblical quotes, please do show me a post of jenkinsfan where he discussed anything "intelligently," thanks. If I had ever seen even an iota of this (and I believe it's safe to say that I checked, see the OP if you doubt this), this would never have become an issue.

weirddave:

He's not hurting anyone, and if you believe differently and want a debate, who better than a passionate believer? If not, ehh, ignore him.

"I'm not hurting anyone, and if you believe differently and wanta debate, who better than someone who did a lot of research to make his point intelligently and without malice? If not, ehh, ignore me."

yosemitebabe:

You know, not to belabour the point, Satan, but don't you have better things to do?

If you would like, I could probably find a million posts of yours (or anyones) and reply the same thing. I don't believe it is your place to judge what I feel is a constructive way to spend my time, thanks. Feel free to, of course, this being a public message board and all. Just don't expect me to give a rats ass or modify how I spend my time because you think I should do something else.

Some overzealous guy who is probably going to get ZERO out of all your hard work. He'll just see it as further evidence that you are intolerant, or whatever. I suspect it won't even make a dent on him.

Okay, so you can ignore him - someone who is putting a lot of hard work into something that we all can suspect won't make a dent on anyone here, but when I do the same thing, you feel compelled to respond. And on top of that, he has been doing it for over 100 posts, and this is my second post on the subject. Seems a little selective on your part.

And consider this: He might see this, realize how he is coming off, and start to open up to other topics, and then he becomes a well-rounded poster here. And it would be in part because I didn't "ignore him" as you do, but told him what was up.

Im my book, this is compassion towards him, a lot more compassion than "ignoring" him is, don't you think? And isn't compassion a trait a Christian should have?

In closing, lest I get misinterpreted yet again:

Jenkinsfan has been getting a ton of shit from people who just don't want to deal with him anymore. People have been flat-out RUDE to him (and I don't see anyone jumping down their throats, I might add).

Despite what you comclusion jumpers think, I like jenkinsfan. Or at least, I have nothing against him. This thread was my way of showing him in clear English exactly how he looks to others. It was advice. I did not slam him. I certainly did not slam religion or Christianity. And I dare anyone to show me where I did.

It was simply advice which he could take or he could ignore, which I also pretty much said there.

So, please do stop your own stereotyping and try and read what I wrote, thanks. I was trying to help do this with jenkinsfan in the same manner that people pointed out to Libertarian that he was a one-trick pony with his touting Libertarianism at every step, how it made him look.

__________________
Yer pal,
Satan

I HAVE BEEN SMOKE-FREE FOR:
One month, three weeks, five days, 9 hours, 32 minutes and 25 seconds.
2255 cigarettes not smoked, saving $281.99.
Life saved: 1 week, 19 hours, 55 minutes.

[DAVEW0071]

Satan, I have to agree with you. If you (or any other members) don't know by now, I am a Christian, and have never made any pretext about it or my views on subjects as they relate to it.

That being said, I have two other points to make:
1) I've never liked proselytizing ... by anyone. It's usually an accusation levelled at Christians (not undeservedly, in many cases), but how many people have we come across on this MB and in life who insist that (vegetarianism/conservatism/chiropractic...name your poison) is the one and only true way to go, and will steer a conversation about the weather in Rangoon over to make some point about the thing they've built their wheel around. Satan, I assume you feel the same about this practice in general, else you wouldn't have written about JF. That's OK. I tend to agree with you, not just about JF's posts but on this kind of misuse of the SDMB in general.

2) I've also never liked being attacked blindly simply for my religious beliefs, a practice which I've seen more than once at the SDMB, a place I would like to consider more open-minded than most. Maybe I'm hypersensitive about it, but I have seen incredible vitriol aimed at a poster (not always me) who brings Christianity into a post -- even a post that encourages religious debate. It's easy to see that knee-jerk pig-ignorant intolerance is not the exclusive property of Fundies or Christians or churchgoers.

Please understand, I'm not saying you have acted this way, Satan. I'm only using your post to make a point. Said point being, I guess, that sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander. Jenkinsfan is, in a strange and misguided way, intolerant, since he feels it necessary to cram his beliefs (which I may share, for all I know) down the collective throat of this MB's audience. Let's acknowledge the rest of the intolerance out there, as well, though, to be fair. Debate and disagreement is the soul of the SDMB. Nastiness and jumping ugly at the first mention of Jesus Christ has no business here, IMO.

If I or any other Christian poster genuinely offend (and I don't mean offending simply by mentioning Jesus or stating a Christian viewpoint, let's all be reasonable, OK?), then we deserve all the heat we get. But let's keep the premise of the SDMB pure by offering reasoned arguments and allowing the free exchange of ideas in an open forum.

Thanks for the pics of the DC fest, by the way, Satan. Looks like you had fun, and you have a decent butt.

[London_Calling]

Agreed. There are many other posters who demonstrate Christian beliefs but none remotely approach the fervour of jenkinsfan. He is, in that sense, unique (to my knowledge) – and it’s that uniqueness you have taken issue with. How do you marry together your support for cultural diversity while in the same breathe tell jenkinsfan not to be so different ? There is a contradiction.

OK, so in essence you’re saying: Don’t post on just one subject because people won’t think you a credible poster and because it makes Christianity appear cultish. You want him to what…post more often on more subject or post the same amount but water down the Christian thing. And why. You wouldn’t presume to speak for the entire SDBM so I assume it’s a personal preference (that he should post more or more diversely) and also, in your view, if he did, would attain more credibility for himself and his cause.

Well, the guy is a single issue person. Comes with the territory known as Fundamentalism. We all know that. Him being here – and him alone on this message board - reminds (at least) me that fundamentalism, closed minds and much else are here among us and not somewhere else where we don’t need to think about it.

For me, it’s not about appearing cultish because he already is. Nor is it about credibility because, in my view, people not unlike jenkinsfan are a threat to us all and I find it useful to be reminded of that. So for that reason, I want him to post in the manner he does

Perhaps we should agree to disagree on whether to outline to him our preferences for the frequency and diversity of jenkinsfan’s own postings.

I still find it difficult to see this as anything other than, at best, irritation and at worst, intolerance.

[aha]

Folks I am a christian. Having said that (perhaps one time too many) here is what I think.

Mentioning your christianity a few times is ok. I am guilty of that. But I don't have a second agenda when I post or talk to others on this board. When we post back and forth on a myriad of subjects you can accept my posts prima facia.

I also don't solicit problems from other people so that I can pray for them. As much as I would like to think that I have that kind of connectivity with God, I am afraid that it just ain't so. I leave that to the schooled evanglists and trained seminarians like my priest. Much in the same way that you rely on your trained doctor for medical advice

And contrary to some of the teachings of christianity I don't feel responsible for your soul. I am too busy trying to walk the straight and narrow to save my own. If you can get your ass to heaven then hopefully I will see you there. I'll be the one clutching the PC in my arms that is still connected to the Straightdope.

In the meantime to see someone post "this is not witnessing but excuse me while I witness" is just grating on some of our nerves. Nothing mysterious about it, just irritating for some of us ok? Insulting to intelligence. People respond to people who post irritating things on this board and I think that is the way it is supposed to be. I'm sure that my post here will irritate some, but hey, what the hell respond to it all you like.

It just irks me to think that some other equal mortal on this earth has decided that they are directly connected to God and having achieved that, now they have to turn their attention to me, a poor assed sinner to make sure that God is taking care of me too. Kind of Hare krishna-like ain't it?

The above was not written for debate reasons..it's just my opinion to which I am entitled. Thank you for your kind attention.

[Shayna]

Dear friend Satan,

I believe you think you had your heart in the right place. I don't fault you for trying to do something you thought would be constructive. I do things all the time that I know in my heart I have good intentions with, but, alas, sometimes they come out all wrong. It's not that I don't understand your frustration. But I think what you said to yosemitebabe completely sums up exactly what I'd say right back to you regarding this thread.

I don't believe it is your place to judge what [he] feel[s] is a constructive way to spend [his] time, thanks. Feel free to, of course, this being a public message board and all. Just don't expect [him] to give a rats ass or modify how [he] spend[s] [his] time because you think [he] should do something else.

As for what you addressed to me, personally,

Far better just to give jenkinsfan a ton of shit when he does it like other posters (whom I mostly respect, I must add) did, right?

Of course not. You know better.

Come on, Shayna, give me a break. I was nice about it all while others called the guy names. Did you lambast them? I don't think so.

First of all, I didn't catch the topic jenkinsfan started until after it was closed or I may very well have lambasted them. See my reply to Wally in the thread he started for Scotticher if you have any question about that. Also, I don't think I lambasted you here. Just expressed that I thought you were wrong. And I did it as politely, I feel, as you felt you did.

Still friends?

Shayna

[Satan]

How do you marry together your support for cultural diversity while in the same breathe tell jenkinsfan not to be so different ? There is a contradiction.

You still don't get it. One can be very fervent about anything - ask anyone who knows me and they will say that I am fervent about the NFL (especially the Giants), New York City and music (especially the heavy stuff) - and not have every single thing out of their mouth be about that. There is a difference between being fervent and being obsessed, don't you think?

OK, so in essence you’re saying: Don’t post on just one subject because people won’t think you a credible poster and because it makes Christianity appear cultish.

No, what I am saying is post on some other things because you are coming off as a one-dimensional bore. The rest is gravy, all backed up with facts and independent parties who will nod their heads in approval.

You want him to what…post more often on more subject or post the same amount but water down the Christian thing.

No, but thanks for putting words in my mouth. He doesn't have to water down anything. Hell, he doesn't even have to listen to my advice! But I refuse to repeat myself just for your benefit. If you think that being a one-dimensional poster - and with an agenda at that, and coming off (as someone above very nicely put it) as someone who just views the rest of us as conversion targets, then yes, I have a problem with it.

You wouldn’t presume to speak for the entire SDBM so I assume it’s a personal preference (that he should post more or more diversely) and also, in your view, if he did, would attain more credibility for himself and his cause.

The prevailing opinion - if you look above, you will see other people's posts on this subject you know - is that I have a point. Feel free to disagree. Feel free to agree. Feel free to play hide and go fuck yourself for all I care!

The fact is that I am not the only person who feels that jenkinsfan lacks credibility because of exactly this. The whole message board? Well, obviously I can't speak for everyone, but I think I speak for enough, thanks.

Well, the guy is a single issue person. Comes with the territory known as Fundamentalism. We all know that.

BZZT!! Wrong answer!! (My how I was waiting to bring that out of the mothballs...)

There are many fundamentalist Christians who can talk about something other than Christ. Some are on this very board. I chat with a few on a semi-regular basis - and I assure you that I wouldn't chat with someone if all they did was witness to me.

So YOU are the one stereotyping here, pal. Not I.

Him being here – and him alone on this message board - reminds (at least) me that fundamentalism, closed minds and much else are here among us and not somewhere else where we don’t need to think about it.

Well, it seems to me that your mind is closed to the possibility of a fundie NOT acting in this manner, eh?

Oh, and he is not alone.There are several fundies on this board. As opposed to your characterization, I can say that simply not all of them need to act that way.

For me, it’s not about appearing cultish because he already is. Nor is it about credibility because, in my view, people not unlike jenkinsfan are a threat to us all and I find it useful to be reminded of that. So for that reason, I want him to post in the manner he does.

Well, all I can say is that everything you have said tells me that you dislike Christians more than I ever could be accused of it, because you see someone making a mockery of himself and his beliefs, and you say that a) this i how everyone is and b) watching him do like everyone does reminds me I'm better than them. Sorry, but that kind of attitude is repugnant.

And then, when I call it to his attention that he is playing what to you might be characterized as the court jester, you get upset with me. Why? Because I threaten to take your entertainment away?

Perhaps we should agree to disagree on whether to outline to him our preferences for the frequency and diversity of jenkinsfan’s own postings.

Do me a favor here: Quit playing games, okay? This isn't a matter of a "Non-Christian Post Quota" that he and others should meet, okay?

This is, in a nutshell, about why he is here, period. And no matter what his intentions are, he is certainly allowed to have them and stay. All I did was bring to his attention what he is really doing and what he looks like... TO ME, yes, but also TO OTHERS.

He needs to be honest with us and himself starting soon. If he doesn't, the likes of yosemitebabe will simply ignore him, the likes of WallyM7 will simply curse him, and the likes of you will sit back and laugh at it all. You laugh at funerals too, right?

I still find it difficult to see this as anything other than, at best, irritation and at worst, intolerance.

Sure. And saying, "they're all like that" and complaining about honest attempts to show one of them how they really do look to us in the hopes of opening his eyes is the beacon of open-minded multi-culturalism, isn't it.

__________________
Yer pal,
Satan

I HAVE BEEN SMOKE-FREE FOR:
One month, three weeks, five days, 13 hours, 54 minutes and 4 seconds.
2263 cigarettes not smoked, saving $282.90.
Life saved: 1 week, 20 hours, 35 minutes.

[Satan]

Shayna, you still don't get it.

I am not telling jenkinsfan on what he should do, which is essentially what yosemitebabe said to me. She said I could spend my time better, and I stand by my response.

I am showing him what he is really doing, how it looks to others here (some who are beginning to get really irritated with him), and what the probable result will be.

Already we have someone here with a "they all act like that anyway" attitude... And I think that jenkinsfan needs to see that it is his actions which give him and those like him the stereotype.

All I am doing is showing him what he is really saying and how he is making - not only him, but his Jesus look.

And I don't think thre's anything wrong with that, on ANY levels.

What I think is wrong is just standing by and ignoring him, or screaming insults at him. And I have not done that at all.

All I did was show him a mirror. He can do whatever he wants, and maybe I'm totally wrong. Maybe he can still have a 100-to-1 ratio of Jesus-to-Non posts until the year 2010, and people will adore him, coverts will thank him, and this place will look like the LBMB.

But I doubt it, and so do you. Like I said, all i did was hold up a mirror. He is free to do whatever he wants. If you would read exactly what I said in the OP, you would see this clearly.

__________________
Yer pal,
Satan

I HAVE BEEN SMOKE-FREE FOR:
One month, three weeks, five days, 14 hours, 3 minutes and 8 seconds.
2263 cigarettes not smoked, saving $282.93.
Life saved: 1 week, 20 hours, 35 minutes.

[Rysdad]

Satan said:
I don't believe it is your place to judge what I feel is a constructive way to spend my time, thanks. Feel free to, of course, this being a public message board and all. Just don't expect me to give a rats ass or modify how I spend my time because you think I should do something else.

And Jenkinsfan should change his posting style...why?

I guess I just don't care enough about religion to give a whit.

[Shayna]

Satan, honey, I get it. I really do. I think it's you who doesn't get it.

I am not telling jenkinsfan on what he should do, which is essentially what yosemitebabe said to me. She said I could spend my time better, and I stand by my response.

You can't dress up a horse, paint it different colors, throw some feathers on it and call it an emu. You can claim you aren't telling jenkinsfan what he should do, but you are. You've chastised him for only being a "one trick pony" and dressed it up as merely holding a mirror in front of him. Ok, well he looks in the mirror. He sees what you want him to see - that he only posts on one thing and isn't diverse enough for some posters here. Now what? You want him to recognize this and change. There is no other point I can see to wanting someone to take stock of their actions if you don't want them to do something about it once they have seen what you've pointed out. Duh!

I repeat, "I don't believe it is your place to judge what [he] feel[s] is a constructive way to spend [his] time, thanks. Feel free to, of course, this being a public message board and all. Just don't expect [him] to give a rats ass or modify how [he] spend[s] [his] time because you think [he] should do something else."

And I think that jenkinsfan needs to see that it is his actions which give him and those like him the stereotype.

Satan, I'm not sure I understand why it's so important for you to make sure that jenkinsfan knows how others see him. You're presuming that he's too stupid to figure that out on his own based on the replies he gets from his posts. I think it's a little insulting that you feel you need to point this out to him.

All I am doing is showing him what he is really saying and how he is making - not only him, but his Jesus look.

And I don't think thre's anything wrong with that, on ANY levels.

Another approach would be to start a thread in Great Debates to the effect of, "Does Witnessing Give Jesus A Bad Name?" Your opinion is that it does. Others may disagree (I know I do - and I'm Jewish!). It might be an interesting debate (or go nowhere, who knows). But the way you've done this here is to state as though it were a fact that what jenkinsfan is doing is garnering the results you claim. I stand by my original contention - there are many things wrong with this particular approach on many different levels.

Good intentions ---> bad outcome. Sorry.

[London_Calling]

Nothing like a little lively intercourse on a Sunday.

Me:

"Well, the guy is a single-issue person. Comes with the territory known as Fundamentalism. We all know that."

I’ll take a wild guess that part of the Giants philosophy is: Attack is the best form of defence.

I’m going to stand by my views as expressed above and just do a little defensive work.

Satan, are lumping jenkinsfan together with other religiously inclined SDMB posters. This whole thread is about how he is not like them. Other Christians here post on any subject that appeals to them. He doesn’t. That is because he is a fundamentalist and they are not.

Perhaps we differ on our respective definition’s of ‘Fundamentalism’/fundie’s. To me it’s in the non-tabloid, non-sensationalist sense, simple one issue fanaticism. I have seen no evidence of other fanatics on this board, notwithstanding your sporting allegiance.

He has but one subject/issue – perhaps in his life. By definition, the others can’t be ‘fundies’ because they have, and express, wider interests.

That, in my view, is his value. He reminds me that; to quote you putting words in my mouth “they all act like that anyway” and I find it useful to be reminded by jenkinsfan’s postings that “they”, the genuine woo woo out there fundamental/fundie/fanatic’s, are singe issue, close minded people.

And he is, in my view - and yours, hence the OP - the only poster here of that radical inclination. <end defensive >
Echoing Shayna: Good intentions --> bad outcomes. Sorry.

[jenkinsfan]

Satan, I don't feel you have been rude to me. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. You probably had my best interest in my mind. I thank you for the advice. I'm sorry to cause you to have to work so hard searching out my posts. You made a very good point. I'm starting a new thread soon in MPSIMS. When you see it, please vote.

God bless,
jenkinsfan

[yosemite]

Satan, you said:

I am not telling jenkinsfan on what he should do, which is essentially what yosemitebabe said to me. She said I could spend my time better, and I stand by my response.

No...to get picky, my exact words were:

You know, not to belabour the point, Satan, but don't you have better things to do?

My dear, that was a question. I didn't "tell" you to spend your time better, I was just scratching my head in confusion about why you would spend so much time on this one issue.

We all express our opinions here, we all have our pet peeves and issues. Me probably more than many. But I defy you to find a thread started by me that took so much obvious time and extensive research, over one guy. But hey - whatever floats your boat. If that's what you want to do...knock yourself out. But expect many of us to wonder why you'd put in all that time and effort.

jenkinsfan, you said:

I'm sorry to cause you to have to work so hard searching out my posts.

Honey, you didn't "cause" him to do anything. He felt the compelling desire to spend lots of time doing this research. It was his decision...that's the way he wanted to spend his time. Lots of his time.

[PunditLisa]

First, Satan, I think you should have posted this in the Pit. I doubt jenkinsfan's religion is mundane and pointless to him. (Where the hell are the moderators? Do they think they get Sundays off in ADDITION to a medical plan with an 100% deductible? Geesh.)

Secondly, telling someone like jenkinsfan to become more "diversified" is like telling Alex Trebec to be less haughty. It is an integral part of he is.

Ignore jenkinsfan if he bugs you. But he has a right to be here as much as anyone else, regardless of whether he mentions Jesus, or Jehovah, or Mohammed, 1000 times. And it's just downright impolite to call him to the mat like this. I'll ask you: Before posting this, did you ask yourself: WWJD??

It takes ALL kinds to make the SDMB interesting.

[psycat90]

jenkinsfan: post whatever the hell (sorry) you want.

[Danielinthewolvesden]

look, folks I like Jenkinsfan, but he is like a great piano player that only knows one tune. He has every right to play that tune, but it DOES get a tad dull after a while.

[Drain Bead]

Jenkinsfan came over here from the LBMB with an agenda. And as much as he's banging his head against the proverbial brick wall, he's kept up with it, and he's here.

It's funny, everyone says he can be as one-track as he wants to be. It takes all kinds to make the Straight Dope the wonderful place it is. Of course, when, say, Michael Masterson interjected annoying "booty daddy" sex posts in unrelated threads and started several threads to talk about how wonderful he was, he got banned. I'm not saying that JF should be banned...just pointing out that Trolling for Jesus is still trolling, plain and simple. It's the exact same thing that MM did, but people are willing to live and let live, or even support it, because he's doing it for his religion.

Since this thread was started, it seems that JF has actually started a thread that has nothing to do with religion. This is awesome, because THAT is what makes the Straight Dope wonderful. The SD is about fighting ignorance, and its ultimate goal is to make us all more well-rounded and knowledgeable people. It's about all of us giving the community EVERYTHING we have to offer, not just one thing. So Jenkinsfan, keep posting about God. But also post about baseball, calculus, the latest urban legend you may have gotten in your e-mail, your favorite Faulkner novel, etymology, metaphysics, and any other things you might be interested in. We want to learn everything we can from you, not just one thing. And who knows? Maybe when your efforts to convert people are a bit less transparent, someone might just listen to what you have to say on that matter.

[David B]

Aha said:

Folks I am a christian.

You are?!

Eeeeeew.

And to think I almost welcomed you...

[techchick68]

I have read most but not all of the replies to Satan's OP. And I must say for some people to attack him based on an observation he made and felt he wanted to post on it to be kind of lame.

He didn't flame, I think the main reason he pointed this out was to mention the fact that jenkinsfan seems to have a very narrow focus when it comes to posting. I feel, this is my opinion, that if a poster only has one agenda in a place like the SD what's the purpose?

For Satan or anyone else to make this observance isn't wrong, it's been done before. I think the reason some people get all pissy about it is because it's religious in nature. You point this out with other posters and no one gets their panties in a wad over it, must be the religious thing.

Satan has questioned his spiritual status for a while now and I don't think that anyone should question his motives in this manner.

He made a very detailed observation....but it's still an observation.

[SqrlCub]

A few words, I don't really have an opinion of jenkinsfan. I remember reading some of his posts and thinking this is like ARG220 in the old days. If you don't know, don't ask. It was bad; however, unlike ARG, jenkinsfan seemed to have at least more semblance of good ideas where ARG was 95% oure judgement. Overall, I thought it was just laughable. His points are interesting eventhough I rarely if ever agree with them and my apathy towards that type of attitude keeps me from even wanting to respond. I don't think he is a troll right now, nor will I. He seems intelligent overall but is much easier to ignore than the typical troll.

HUGS!
Sqrl

[Kilgore Trout]

i don't kow if this link has been posted in this thread yet, but have a look.

http://cgi.leftbehind.com/ubb/Forum6/HTML/000658.html

[Kyberneticist]

Wow, that kind of makes it clear what his mission is. I mean, not that I really doubted it, but it definitely puts him firmly in the "troll" category. In this case, trolling for minds to infect with a particular memeplex...

[DoctorJ]

I've been thinking about this lately, and I've come up with a possibly useful analogy.

Let's say that you sell oranges.

You happen upon this board, and you think, "Hey, these people need oranges!" You start up several new threads about these great oranges you have for sale. Every post you make has some reference to oranges, whether they are relevant or not. You start up threads where you say, "I'm not trying to sell oranges in this thread, but hey--aren't oranges great?"

This would not be received very well. It's not that we have anything against oranges--we like oranges. We just don't appreciate someone trying to sell them to us on this board.

On the other hand, let's say you sell oranges. You find this board, and you like the people and the discussions so you hang around and join in. Everyone knows that you're an orange salesman, and that if they need oranges, you're the man, but you don't purposely and repeatedly advertise it. Maybe at some point you say, "Hey, I've got a great deal on oranges this week, if anyone is interested," but you don't see the board as a market for your oranges.

See the difference? Which way is going to piss off fewer people? Which way is going to sell more oranges?

Dr. J

[RTFirefly]

...if you think there's nothing wrong with his reflection?

I agree with Shayna: this mirror business is an implied criticism.

My reaction: so JF is a one-trick pony. So what? Lib was (and is) a one-trick pony, and there was really nothing wrong with that. The problem you seem to have, Satan, is that JF's one trick involves Christian fundamentalism, rather than free-market fundamentalism. BFD.

You and DoctorJ have compared JF with Lib. Since I was one of the people most ticked off by Lib, let me draw some distinctions here between Lib and JF. (And it's probably worth taking my comments about Lib with the appropriate grain of salt; I'm definitely biased.)

The problem I had with Lib wasn't his one-note approach to life (although I'm not keen on one-noters of any persuasion, and especially his); it was the fact that he was all over the place, seemingly turning every economic, political, or religious thread into a debate over libertarianism.

Recall that, between last November and this March, roughly, Lib was easily our most prolific poster. He averaged over 18 posts a day, getting to 2000 posts probably faster than anyone before him. If you were on GD, posting to threads in the aforementioned categories, he was unavoidable. And he had a gift for writing inflammatory posts that would immediately become the focus of the debate, turning the thread into yet one more libertarian debate. The notion that, say, a debate over whether America should have a flat tax or not, implied a debate on that issue within a certain pre-existing context never seemed to occur to him; he cheerfully turned any such discussion into a debate over whether government, in the broad sense, ought to exist.

Pardon me if I don't see this same problem arising in the case of jenkinsfan, who, since registering, has posted roughly 2-3 times a day. Unless I'm missing something here, you can get away from this guy if you want, and still participate widely in your favorite forums. With Lib (during his heyday, anyway), you couldn't, at least not in GD.

And most particularly, Satan, he's clearly not been your problem. As you say, you've had little time to post on anything besides recent and upcoming Doper get-togethers. JF has hardly been a thorn in your side, then. So what's the deal? Why are you making an issue out of this guy? In what sense is he a problem for anyone else, in a way that can't be best dealt with by ignoring him? And if he isn't, why are you making a poster the issue here? (btw, JF, I'm not implying that you're a problem; I'm just making a worst-case argument.)

I just don't get it.

[Drain Bead]

RTF--did you check the above link to LB? This is why some of us have an issue with Jenkinsfan. Prolific or not, the agenda is still there. Hell, I wouldn't mind the agenda, if he would use the better half of DoctorJ's analogy in doing so. But he doesn't, and hence my main problem with him.

[RTFirefly]

Drain, I checked out the thread where he asks everyone's prayers for his witnessing mission. (Gawd, it was depressing to revisit that place!) Still, agenda or no, I don't see him being worse than an annoyance. While I'm not much of a GDer these days, I've only mildly noticed him when I've had time to spend there lately. It's not like he brought over a few dozen buddies to try to clog up the place.

[Diane]

I don't believe it is your place to judge what I feel is a constructive way to spend my time, thanks. Feel free to, of course, this being a public message board and all. Just don't expect me to give a rats ass or modify how I spend my time because you think I should do something else.

I am showing him what he is really doing, how it looks to others here (some who are beginning to get really irritated with him), and what the probable result will be.

Works both ways, doesn't it? So who exactly is holding that gun to your head making you litsen to what I typed?

There is a difference between being fervent and being obsessed, don't you think?

No, what I am saying is post on some other things because you are coming off as a one-dimensional bore.

All I did was show him a mirror.