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Old 01-09-2018, 02:02 PM
aldiboronti aldiboronti is offline
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Two vicious pitbulls are coming towards me. What's my best plan of action?

These dogs do not look at all happy. I'm alone, they are unattended, we're in a large field. What's my best plan of survival? Should I run? There are some trees a couple of hundred yards away, although I don't think I could outrun these guys. Ruling out flight then I figure I have 3 options: fight, play dead or try to make friends with them. I realize none of these are great choices but which of the 3 offers even slightly better chances of survival than the other 2?
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Old 01-09-2018, 02:06 PM
running coach running coach is online now
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n/m double post

Last edited by running coach; 01-09-2018 at 02:08 PM.
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Old 01-09-2018, 02:08 PM
running coach running coach is online now
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Do you have anything that makes a serviceable weapon?
If not, try making friends. Do you have an extra limb you can offer?
Running will trigger the "chase prey" instinct.
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Old 01-09-2018, 02:19 PM
Beckdawrek Beckdawrek is online now
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Yea, I would say running is a bad idea. Throw a stick maybe they will chase it, and then head for the trees.
Boy, I would not like that situation.
Where are the owners?
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Old 01-09-2018, 02:22 PM
HoneyBadgerDC HoneyBadgerDC is offline
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Originally Posted by running coach View Post
Do you have anything that makes a serviceable weapon?
If not, try making friends. Do you have an extra limb you can offer?
Running will trigger the "chase prey" instinct.
I had this exact scenario with 2 Dobermans. I picked up a stick and held them at bay while I slowly walked out while facing them. I doubt this would work with a pit bull, they don't back off. Reach for anything you can find with a point and try to gouge out the eyes. You will take some heavy damage at best.
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Old 01-09-2018, 02:32 PM
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Moved to IMHO.

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Old 01-09-2018, 02:32 PM
Sunny Daze Sunny Daze is online now
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You don't specify enough to know whether they are hostile or not. Keep facing them. Move slowly and calmly. Talk slowly and calmly. Do not turn your back. Do not run. Try to make friends or at least convince them that you are not a threat. Call animal control/emergency services when you can. Two large dogs, of any breed, should not be roaming unsupervised. In an urban/suburban area, they can hurt people, animals, or get hit by a car. In a rural area, they can hurt people, small animals, or livestock. In my state, it is legal to shoot them in rural areas.
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Old 01-09-2018, 02:38 PM
iiandyiiii iiandyiiii is offline
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This exact scenario happened to me about 15 years ago, except it was two Rottweilers, and it was on the street in a suburban neighborhood. I was jogging early in the morning (very early -- about 5 AM or so), and as I passed an intersection, I looked down the sidestreet and saw the two dogs charging towards me.

My first instinct was to flee, but I was tired and not a fast runner in the first place. So I charged toward the dogs, yelling my head off and waving my arms, and they immediately turned tail and ran.

So that's what I would recommend doing.

Last edited by iiandyiiii; 01-09-2018 at 02:40 PM.
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Old 01-09-2018, 02:43 PM
MichaelEmouse MichaelEmouse is online now
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Last winter, some git left their Rottweiler out in front of their house to do his business. No front yard, no fence, no leash so the dog was on his own on the sidewalk, right onto the street. He was uncomfortable with not having any privacy, likely scared. I made the mistake of continuing to walk in the same direction I had which was toward the dog. He ran towards me, I crouched to signal friendliness but he wasn't having it so I got back up, put my arm in front of me, braced myself, looked at him and stayed silent. He stopped 1-2 meters away from me and barked a lot but didn't bite. He turned back after a short while.

I then made the mistake of continuing to walk in the same direction, only going around the dog as I approached the house. He came towards me again, I repeat the same behavior, he barked again but didn't bite then went away.

If it came to that, my plan was for the dog to bite onto one arm while I used the other to go for the eyes, nose or throat.


Behaving like neither a friend, prey or predator can put off a dog enough that he doesn't know what to do with you and just goes :"What the fuck? What the fuck?! Oh fuck this!"

Last edited by MichaelEmouse; 01-09-2018 at 02:45 PM.
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Old 01-09-2018, 02:53 PM
Beckdawrek Beckdawrek is online now
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Yes it is legal to shoot unknown dogs in my neck of the woods. I am not sure I like that, but I don't depend on livestock to make my living.
People have dropped dogs off close to my property for years. Of course they always end up on my deck begging for food. Mr.Wrekker says they have hit the dog lottery, when they come here. I try to find homes for them, I care for them and feed, de-flea and even give them rabies shots. I have always been able to find homes for them eventually. Knock on wood, it has been 6 mos or so since the last. She was a momma dog who gave birth after being here one day. I found homes for all the pups. I took mom in and had her spayed, a lady at the Vets office found a home for her. I have never had a vicious dog 'yet'. Some were skittish and less friendly. But mostly they are starving for food and love. I am always cautious and I don't my dogs near them. I really wouldn't want to have to decide what to do if I was being attacked. I googled it, there is no real help there unless you have weapon or a way to put something between yourself and biting dogs. If you're in field you are really out of luck.
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Old 01-09-2018, 03:00 PM
Penfeather Penfeather is online now
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Show them evidence that pitbulls are a gentle loving breed and accounts of pitbull attacks are usually cases of misidentification and confirmation bias.
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Old 01-09-2018, 03:04 PM
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I'd sit down on the ground and let them lick my face.
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Old 01-09-2018, 03:06 PM
Nansbread1 Nansbread1 is offline
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Most dogs in english speaking countries obey the most basic command SIT.

Say it forcefully and you might have just saved your life.
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Old 01-09-2018, 03:12 PM
Chronos Chronos is online now
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It depends: What breed are the pit bulls? If they're something small like beagles, then fighting is going to be a lot more favorable than if they're St. Bernards or something.
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Old 01-09-2018, 03:15 PM
iiandyiiii iiandyiiii is offline
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Originally Posted by Chronos View Post
It depends: What breed are the pit bulls? If they're something small like beagles, then fighting is going to be a lot more favorable than if they're St. Bernards or something.
Pit bulls are a breed of dog, though there's a lot of variation in my understanding. On average, I think they're about 70-100 pounds and very solidly built.

But I'd still go with my tried and true tactic above -- wave your arms, scream your head off, and charge them, and I think there's a very good chance that they'll flee. If it worked for Rottweilers then I think there's a great chance it would work for pit bulls.
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Old 01-09-2018, 03:20 PM
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Originally Posted by iiandyiiii View Post
Pit bulls are a breed of dog, though there's a lot of variation in my understanding. On average, I think they're about 70-100 pounds and very solidly built.

But I'd still go with my tried and true tactic above -- wave your arms, scream your head off, and charge them, and I think there's a very good chance that they'll flee. If it worked for Rottweilers then I think there's a great chance it would work for pit bulls.
Or it could be this.
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Old 01-09-2018, 03:20 PM
B-Rad B-Rad is offline
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Pit bulls are a breed of dog...
*whoosh! * city
Everyone knows all vicious dogs are only pit bulls.

And cocker F-ing spaniels.
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  #18  
Old 01-09-2018, 03:23 PM
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Former animal trainer here, since there are two of them I would be a bit more concerned than just one since they may exhibit pack behavior, but it doesn't mean they are going to attack you. I wouldn't make any sudden movements and certainly don't try to run since that could trigger a chase response, but I would back away slowly while looking on the ground for any large rocks or hefty sticks you could use to try to defend yourself with if need be. I wouldn't scream or panic, or draw any attention to yourself.

So you're backing away slowly in as non-threatening a manner as possible and watching them from the side and not staring at them directly in the face. Also keep your eyes out for another human who can join you as you exit the area. I doubt they will attack, but at least you can try to defend yourself if they do.

If you think about it, pit bulls were breed to fight other dogs, not humans, but they will attack humans, especially children, if they feel threatened. As a full grown adult you are much more intimidating to them than a child would be. If I lived in a neighborhood with loose pit bulls running around I would get in the habit of carrying bear spray with me at all times. Hopefully I would never have to use it, but it will stop just about anything from charging you.
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  #19  
Old 01-09-2018, 03:34 PM
TriPolar TriPolar is online now
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Originally Posted by iiandyiiii View Post
Pit bulls are a breed of dog, though there's a lot of variation in my understanding. On average, I think they're about 70-100 pounds and very solidly built.
We've been over this in other threads. Any dog that attacks a person, or is believed might attack a person is a pit bull. The term has become synonymous with 'scary dog'.
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Old 01-09-2018, 03:40 PM
iiandyiiii iiandyiiii is offline
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We've been over this in other threads. Any dog that attacks a person, or is believed might attack a person is a pit bull. The term has become synonymous with 'scary dog'.
I guess I missed those conversations. That's entirely contrary to my experience, though I don't deal with dogs every day.
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Old 01-09-2018, 03:49 PM
Colibri Colibri is online now
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We've been over this in other threads. Any dog that attacks a person, or is believed might attack a person is a pit bull. The term has become synonymous with 'scary dog'.
This is contradicted by other posts in this thread.
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Old 01-09-2018, 03:51 PM
B-Rad B-Rad is offline
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'strue. And all handguns are Glocks, and all long rifles are AK-47s.
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  #23  
Old 01-09-2018, 03:54 PM
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You could construct a weapon. Look around you. Can you form some sort of rudimentary lathe?
  #24  
Old 01-09-2018, 03:55 PM
Riemann Riemann is online now
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Show them evidence that pitbulls are a gentle loving breed and accounts of pitbull attacks are usually cases of misidentification and confirmation bias.
But hang on, these could be vicious dogs with murderous intent that he has misidentified as pitbulls when in fact they are poodle - shih tzu mix.
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Old 01-09-2018, 03:57 PM
running coach running coach is online now
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You could construct a weapon. Look around you. Can you form some sort of rudimentary lathe?
Determining their motivation comes first, then the rudimentary lathe.
But then, you were never very serious about the craft.

  #26  
Old 01-09-2018, 04:04 PM
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Best plan of action would be to try to make friends with them. If they approach slowly, put your hand below the level of their head, and let them sniff your hand. Then try scratching the chin, the ears, the neck.

However, I get the feeling you are expecting an attack.

If they charge you, your instinct will be to use your hands to ward off the attack. So there is a high probability that they will end up biting your hands. If that happens, shove your fists down their throats. When they suddenly find themselves gagging, their brains will shift gears from "fight" to "flight".
  #27  
Old 01-09-2018, 04:12 PM
Mangetout Mangetout is offline
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I was walking in the park the other day and a large dog (not a pit bull - a Lurcher cross I think) came running at me barking and snarling in a manner I would judge to be aggressive and with intent to attack - I almost turned to run, but I stopped myself - stood my ground and 'widened' my stance, facing up to the animal - it stopped short and shut up, but there was still a tense standoff moment until the owner turned up and got it under control.

If a dog is intending to attack (and this won't always be the true intent), any sort of flinching or retreating may invite it to follow through. I don't think it's so much that standing firm invokes any fear in the dog as much as confusion - if they're attacking and you don't react like prey, they don't necessarily know what to do next.
  #28  
Old 01-09-2018, 04:52 PM
Marvin the Martian Marvin the Martian is offline
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Also keep your eyes out for another human who can join you as you exit the area.
Preferably one you can outrun.
  #29  
Old 01-09-2018, 05:00 PM
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Pit bulls are a breed of dog, though there's a lot of variation in my understanding. On average, I think they're about 70-100 pounds and very solidly built.
70lbs is above the 'desirable range' in the UKC breed standard for American Pit Bull Terrier: 35-60 male, 30-50 female. Although dogs under the broad umbrella appearance category 'pit bull', the great majority of them mixed breed, could be that big, or bigger or smaller.

Some of the comments are amusing. A completely hypothetical scenario is constructed, where 'pit bull' is entirely superfluous. 'What if a pair of big and not friendly looking dogs with no human supervision are charging you?' would completely suffice. But then certain responses treat the entirely made up scenario as some fact 'pit bull fans' are in denial about.

There is no scientific evidence of a causal relationship between breed (even real breeds not broad appearance categories like 'pit bull') and dog aggression toward humans separate from owner factors. Human aggressive dogs are probably more common among lower socio-economic status dog owners, in part directly related to economic factors (a greater perceived need for dogs as defense against crime), but also cultural factors. It's likely big dogs 'charging' at you just want to say hello, play, see if you have treats for them, or just check you out. It's probably a bit less unlikely in a lower class area they want to hurt you or haven't decided yet. And 'pit bull' appearance dogs are still probably more popular among lower socio-econ owners (which is the reason a lot of people hate 'pit bulls': it's a allowable way to express class and sometimes racial prejudice against the perceived typical owners). Although the owner profile is changing rapidly (back to not correlating as much with socio-econ, it didn't used to decades ago).

But a given pair of big dogs 'charging' you in a given location, 'pit bull' wouldn't tell you anything about the odds they are friendly. OK if somebody who actually knows dogs insists yes it would, 'bully' types are more likely to be friendly than say Dobermans, GSD, Rottweiler, I'd guess that's probably true actually. But it's also not provable and again not relevant to OP, what you should *do*, *if* the dogs are human aggressive? That would not depend on their breed or pseudo-breed as in 'pit bull'.

Assuming the dogs already aim to or could be provoked to harm you it's universal wisdom not to run unless you're much closer to refuge than the dogs are to you. Between trying to appear fearsome yourself and trying to be non-threatening I don't know and that probably depends on the individual dog (or leader among the two).

Last edited by Corry El; 01-09-2018 at 05:03 PM.
  #30  
Old 01-09-2018, 05:18 PM
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Originally Posted by iiandyiiii View Post
This exact scenario happened to me about 15 years ago, except it was two Rottweilers, and it was on the street in a suburban neighborhood. I was jogging early in the morning (very early -- about 5 AM or so), and as I passed an intersection, I looked down the sidestreet and saw the two dogs charging towards me.

My first instinct was to flee, but I was tired and not a fast runner in the first place. So I charged toward the dogs, yelling my head off and waving my arms, and they immediately turned tail and ran.

So that's what I would recommend doing.
I have only had one encounter that would qualify for this hypothetical. I went out for a walk after dark to let off some steam from something that upset me. Was just around the corner from my home when a dog approached from ahead as I crossed the street, barking angerly. I was pissed at something so I was not in the mood for this, so I just faced him and shouted something and growled louder then the dog, and it backed off and walked away. I think making yourself look more like a threat than an opportunity (I guess it can work for people, too) is probably what is in action here.
  #31  
Old 01-09-2018, 05:40 PM
pulykamell pulykamell is online now
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Originally Posted by iiandyiiii View Post
Pit bulls are a breed of dog, though there's a lot of variation in my understanding. On average, I think they're about 70-100 pounds and very solidly built.
They really shouldn't be that big. Standard range is 30 to maybe 70 pounds. But there's a bunch that are cross bred for big "bully" breeds that get up to those sizes.

Personally, my reaction with any large unknown dog would be to remain calm and not make any sudden movements. Definitely not run. Just ignore. That's worked with me for random large stray dogs in the area.

Last edited by pulykamell; 01-09-2018 at 05:41 PM.
  #32  
Old 01-09-2018, 05:55 PM
CairoCarol CairoCarol is online now
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I was walking in the park the other day and a large dog (not a pit bull - a Lurcher cross I think) came running at me barking and snarling in a manner I would judge to be aggressive and with intent to attack - I almost turned to run, but I stopped myself - stood my ground and 'widened' my stance, facing up to the animal - it stopped short and shut up, but there was still a tense standoff moment until the owner turned up and got it under control.
Something similar happened to me a while ago. Someone in our neighborhood has two dogs that are usually fenced in, and they bark menacingly at anyone walking by, even across the street. There is a big BEWARE OF DOG sign on the property. One day I was walking home and the dogs were free - they came rushing over, so I stopped walking, faced them, remained calm, and said, in a friendly tone, "hi, puppies!" They stopped in front of me as if uncertain how to proceed; their owner then came out of the house and called them back. I didn't detect any concern in his voice, so hopefully he was accurately assessing the dogs as not dangerous.

I am not happy about the possibility of the dogs being free when I walk by in the future, but I am hoping that since they are starting to see me more often, they'll recognize that I'm just part of the scenery and not a threat.
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Old 01-09-2018, 06:04 PM
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While I was in college back in the 70's, I was attacked by a pack of dogs while I was crossing the campus at dusk. I knocked down the leader with a kick to the head. He got up and ran off, and the rest of the pack followed him. I was just lucky my kick didn't miss.

Why yes, I was an avid "Kung Fu" TV watcher. Why do you ask?
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Old 01-09-2018, 06:18 PM
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I have told this before, the meanest dog I ever owned was a big goofy looking female Dalmatian. I did not trust that dog around anyone. When I walked her I was constantly having tell at kids not to come up to us, she , of course, attracted kids. One Mother chewed me out for not letting her daughter pet her favorite kinda dog. I told the lady if you like your child to have hand you might want to back off. Luckily she never bit or attacked any one, mainly because I guarded against it every time I had her out in public. She was a fearful dog, which is the worst kind of aggression,IMO. I doubt screaming and flailing your arms would have stopped her.
  #35  
Old 01-09-2018, 06:25 PM
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The majority of dogs will not follow through on a mock attack, especially if you stop and face them. Pit bulls are not particularly aggressive towards humans but when you do find one charging there is a very good chance he will follow through with full force. German shepherds are pretty good at following through as well. Not sure about the big Rottweiler's, I have had them approach me barking but didn't appear to have any serious intent behind them.
  #36  
Old 01-09-2018, 06:42 PM
DSeid DSeid is online now
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Originally Posted by Nansbread1 View Post
Most dogs in english speaking countries obey the most basic command SIT.

Say it forcefully and you might have just saved your life.
Personal experience back oh closing in on 40 years back. Turned a corner cutting across a lawn at the university library and startled a couple of apparent street dogs (thickly built large heads would now be referred to as "Pits") who jumped up and snarled towards me. Wide stance, hand command down, and loud "Down!" and they dropped to down. "Good Boy." and walked away.

FWIW.
  #37  
Old 01-09-2018, 07:18 PM
Hopeful Crow Hopeful Crow is offline
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If they charge you, your instinct will be to use your hands to ward off the attack. So there is a high probability that they will end up biting your hands. If that happens, shove your fists down their throats. When they suddenly find themselves gagging, their brains will shift gears from "fight" to "flight".
This, if necessary. Back when I was a groomer, I had to do this a time or two when a dog took exception to whatever I was doing with them and got bitey. I didn't shove my fist in hard and only did it for a second or so, just enough to make them think twice about their course of action. It works.

The times I have had to discourage aggressive dogs on the street, I stood my ground (facing them always) and told them in a strong, stern voice to go home. It may take a minute or two, but eventually they decide to try their luck elsewhere. Or, hopefully, do as I said and go home.

Nowadays, I use a cane, so I could always use that if need be.
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Old 01-09-2018, 07:38 PM
Merneith Merneith is offline
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I'd sit down on the ground and let them lick my face.
Yeah, either this or ignore them, if I had somewhere to be. There's nothing about two dogs roaming around that's going to concern me. We don't have dangerous dogs roaming my neighborhood, after all. I'd want to see if they had tags though, or if an owner was going to come looking for them.

I'd sit down, because dogs like that and want to come investigate, and talk baby talk to them, because I'm giant dork.
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Old 01-09-2018, 07:56 PM
Richox Richox is offline
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Originally Posted by HoneyBadgerDC View Post
The majority of dogs will not follow through on a mock attack, especially if you stop and face them. Pit bulls are not particularly aggressive towards humans but when you do find one charging there is a very good chance he will follow through with full force. German shepherds are pretty good at following through as well. Not sure about the big Rottweiler's, I have had them approach me barking but didn't appear to have any serious intent behind them.
I don't normally do this sort of thing, because I think it comes across as a bit aggressive and I like that everyone can express their opinions without being talked down to... but HoneyBadgerDC I think you should read Corry El's comments below, as making assumptions around dogs based on their breed (or perceived breed) can be both damaging to the dog and to your health.

I've had wonderful, totally family orientated German Shepard's and Rottweilers that i would and did trust around my little jack russels, kids, and chickens. I've seen many beautiful 'pit bulls' (I have a bull cross of some mixed unknown heritage at the moment) who only have love in their hearts, for all dogs and all people.

On the flipside I've seen terrible dogs of all breeds. As I am sure we all have.

Dogs can be wild and unpredictable, but the only thing I know for sure is that all these dogs behaviors were a product of environmental and owner factors, and not breed specific traits. I think understanding and spreading this message is really important to break the breed stereotyping that goes on and only serves to harm the animals in the long run.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Corry El View Post
70lbs is above the 'desirable range' in the UKC breed standard for American Pit Bull Terrier: 35-60 male, 30-50 female. Although dogs under the broad umbrella appearance category 'pit bull', the great majority of them mixed breed, could be that big, or bigger or smaller.

Some of the comments are amusing. A completely hypothetical scenario is constructed, where 'pit bull' is entirely superfluous. 'What if a pair of big and not friendly looking dogs with no human supervision are charging you?' would completely suffice. But then certain responses treat the entirely made up scenario as some fact 'pit bull fans' are in denial about.

There is no scientific evidence of a causal relationship between breed (even real breeds not broad appearance categories like 'pit bull') and dog aggression toward humans separate from owner factors. Human aggressive dogs are probably more common among lower socio-economic status dog owners, in part directly related to economic factors (a greater perceived need for dogs as defense against crime), but also cultural factors. It's likely big dogs 'charging' at you just want to say hello, play, see if you have treats for them, or just check you out. It's probably a bit less unlikely in a lower class area they want to hurt you or haven't decided yet. And 'pit bull' appearance dogs are still probably more popular among lower socio-econ owners (which is the reason a lot of people hate 'pit bulls': it's a allowable way to express class and sometimes racial prejudice against the perceived typical owners). Although the owner profile is changing rapidly (back to not correlating as much with socio-econ, it didn't used to decades ago).

But a given pair of big dogs 'charging' you in a given location, 'pit bull' wouldn't tell you anything about the odds they are friendly. OK if somebody who actually knows dogs insists yes it would, 'bully' types are more likely to be friendly than say Dobermans, GSD, Rottweiler, I'd guess that's probably true actually. But it's also not provable and again not relevant to OP, what you should *do*, *if* the dogs are human aggressive? That would not depend on their breed or pseudo-breed as in 'pit bull'.

Assuming the dogs already aim to or could be provoked to harm you it's universal wisdom not to run unless you're much closer to refuge than the dogs are to you. Between trying to appear fearsome yourself and trying to be non-threatening I don't know and that probably depends on the individual dog (or leader among the two).
  #40  
Old 01-09-2018, 09:01 PM
HoneyBadgerDC HoneyBadgerDC is offline
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Yeah, either this or ignore them, if I had somewhere to be. There's nothing about two dogs roaming around that's going to concern me. We don't have dangerous dogs roaming my neighborhood, after all. I'd want to see if they had tags though, or if an owner was going to come looking for them.

I'd sit down, because dogs like that and want to come investigate, and talk baby talk to them, because I'm giant dork.
I think you are wrong. Pit bulls, bird dogs, herding dogs, and all specialty breeds are selectively bred to produce specific traits that have absolutely nothing to do with environmental factors, if you believe otherwise you are deluding yourself. I love pit bulls and they are fantastic dogs and in most cases great with humans but they are also bred to fight and not quit fighting until they kill what they are fighting. Many of them will ignore pain and are fearless. If they are in the wrong state of mind they can be quite dangerous. I know that pit bulls are way down the list on aggressive toward human dogs, not even close to the top. But I also know that when they are aggressive they are extremely dangerous animal's. They are bred this way.

In recent years pits have been crossed with other aggressive breeds that are even larger and more human aggressive. This has compounded what used to be a minor issue.
  #41  
Old 01-09-2018, 09:33 PM
Arrendajo Arrendajo is offline
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I have told this before, the meanest dog I ever owned was a big goofy looking female Dalmatian. I did not trust that dog around anyone. When I walked her I was constantly having tell at kids not to come up to us, she , of course, attracted kids. One Mother chewed me out for not letting her daughter pet her favorite kinda dog. I told the lady if you like your child to have hand you might want to back off. Luckily she never bit or attacked any one, mainly because I guarded against it every time I had her out in public. She was a fearful dog, which is the worst kind of aggression,IMO. I doubt screaming and flailing your arms would have stopped her.
Yeah, Dalmatians can be pretty mean. As a kid, we had a female who was very protective of her home turf and would growl and bark in an aggressive way at any strangers on our property. At the same time we had a male Dalmatian, and he was meaner in a really antisocial way. He didn't like to be talked to, rarely sought human contact and preferred to be left alone. He did very little growling and threatening, but dick with him and he would bite you fast and hard. We had a dog boarding business, so I got to know many breeds of dogs. It was hard to predict which ones would be bitey. There didn't seem to be any particular breed that was more aggressive than others, but most of our dogs came from good homes and were well socialized. And of course they liked us because we were bringing the food. Best dogs overall for being smart and likable were mutts. The stupidest dogs we boarded, without question, were Irish Setters. Apologies to any Irish Setter fans.
  #42  
Old 01-09-2018, 09:53 PM
Merneith Merneith is offline
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I think you are wrong. Pit bulls, bird dogs, herding dogs, and all specialty breeds are selectively bred to produce specific traits that have absolutely nothing to do with environmental factors, if you believe otherwise you are deluding yourself. I love pit bulls and they are fantastic dogs and in most cases great with humans but they are also bred to fight and not quit fighting until they kill what they are fighting. Many of them will ignore pain and are fearless. If they are in the wrong state of mind they can be quite dangerous. I know that pit bulls are way down the list on aggressive toward human dogs, not even close to the top. But I also know that when they are aggressive they are extremely dangerous animal's. They are bred this way.

In recent years pits have been crossed with other aggressive breeds that are even larger and more human aggressive. This has compounded what used to be a minor issue.
Dude, I'm a child of the seventies. When I say that there aren't really packs of wild dogs roaming my neighborhoods, I mean it. Conceivably, if I found myself in a place with roaming wild dogs, I might be more cautious, but here in Ohio? Lol - no.

Now, back in the 70's there were considerably more roaming dogs around than we have now. The stray dogs in my neighborhood are a thing of the past. But back then everyone let their dogs roam. One of them was a pit bull. Her name was Maggie. She was best friends with my sheltie, Mac. They used to sit and lean on each other. Often, he'd lift his leg on her. She didn't seem to mind. She was the most chill dog in hood. She was a lovely dog and never offered violence to any of God's creatures.

This nonsense that pitbulls are unstoppable killing machines is just bullshit. They're just dogs. They're no more or less likely to attack than any other dog. They haven't been bred to be slavering death traps. What they've been bred for - what makes a dog, a dog - is to serve and protect humans.

They're just dogs. They're certainly less likely to start trouble than any two random humans approaching you. Treat the dogs like you would your own dogs. Always remember that you're top of the food chain.

Last edited by Merneith; 01-09-2018 at 09:54 PM.
  #43  
Old 01-09-2018, 10:18 PM
Beckdawrek Beckdawrek is online now
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Yea and you might be their food, tonight. I don't trust any dog I don't know. But usually I can figure them given time. If one is charging I am assuming the worst. I don't give a crap what breed it is. I got bit by my own injured Rat Terrier on the hand. It was a mess and was several weeks healing. She otoh, was fixed in seconds by the vet. Her knee was out of place ( or elbow) not sure what that joint is called. So size doesn't really matter. And apparently being known by them, if they are injured.
  #44  
Old 01-09-2018, 10:27 PM
DSeid DSeid is online now
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Originally Posted by Colibri View Post
This is contradicted by other posts in this thread.
(in reference to the phrase "Pit Bull" being used pretty damn imprecisely)

Quote:
Originally Posted by HoneyBadgerDC View Post
... Pit bulls, bird dogs, herding dogs, and all specialty breeds are selectively bred to produce specific traits that have absolutely nothing to do with environmental factors, if you believe otherwise you are deluding yourself. I love pit bulls and they are fantastic dogs and in most cases great with humans but they are also bred to fight and not quit fighting until they kill what they are fighting. ...
"Pit Bull" is not a breed of dog and, rather than using "other posts" as a citation, how about the University of Florida College of Veterinary Medicine? Even when applied by those with a great amount of experience dogs in shelters labelled as "Pit" are highly often not of a Pit breed heritage.
Quote:
... ‘Pit bull’ is not a recognized breed, but a term applied to dogs derived from the heritage breeds American Staffordshire terrier or Staffordshire bull terrier. The purebred American pit bull terrier is also derived from these breeds and is often included in the loose definition of ‘pit bull.’

The research team evaluated breed assessments of 120 dogs made by 16 shelter staff members, including four veterinarians, at four shelters. These staff members all had at least three years of experience working in a shelter environment. The researchers then took blood samples from the dogs, developed DNA profiles for each animal and compared the DNA findings against the staff’s initial assessments. ...

... “Essentially we found that the marked lack of agreement observed among shelter staff members in categorizing the breeds of shelter dogs illustrates that reliable inclusion or exclusion of dogs as ‘pit bulls’ is not possible, even by experts,” ...

... A dog’s physical appearance cannot tell observers anything about its behavior. ...
Yes, there are breeds that were bred to have fighting skills. Shar Peis for example. Bedlington Terriers mostly to hunt vermin but historically a fighting dog too, and "once involved in a fight, usually fought to the death."

Like a Shar Pei and a Bedlington, a dog that is of one of the breeds that gets lumped as Pit can be abused or trained in such a way as to exploit their fighting skill sets and become aggressive animals. Or it can be raised to be a fantastic therapy dog and loyal gentle companion. And none of them will herd sheep as well as a Border Collie, a German Shepherd, or an Australian Shepherd. None of them will easily become great birders. But those actually of one of those breeds are by nature not more aggressive than other dogs. (Of course the consequences of an aggressive act by a powerful dog like one of these animals is more significant than that say by a Chihuahua.)
  #45  
Old 01-09-2018, 10:32 PM
snfaulkner snfaulkner is online now
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I had this exact situation, except it was with 2 kobalds. Turns out you can just snap their necks and loot their corpses for 1d4 copper pieces.
  #46  
Old 01-09-2018, 10:58 PM
HoneyBadgerDC HoneyBadgerDC is offline
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Originally Posted by Merneith View Post
Dude, I'm a child of the seventies. When I say that there aren't really packs of wild dogs roaming my neighborhoods, I mean it. Conceivably, if I found myself in a place with roaming wild dogs, I might be more cautious, but here in Ohio? Lol - no.

Now, back in the 70's there were considerably more roaming dogs around than we have now. The stray dogs in my neighborhood are a thing of the past. But back then everyone let their dogs roam. One of them was a pit bull. Her name was Maggie. She was best friends with my sheltie, Mac. They used to sit and lean on each other. Often, he'd lift his leg on her. She didn't seem to mind. She was the most chill dog in hood. She was a lovely dog and never offered violence to any of God's creatures.

This nonsense that pitbulls are unstoppable killing machines is just bullshit. They're just dogs. They're no more or less likely to attack than any other dog. They haven't been bred to be slavering death traps. What they've been bred for - what makes a dog, a dog - is to serve and protect humans.



They're just dogs. They're certainly less likely to start trouble than any two random humans approaching you. Treat the dogs like you would your own dogs. Always remember that you're top of the food chain.
I never said they were more likely to attack, I said they were way down on the list of viscous dogs. I did say that when they were vicious they were more dangerous than most other dogs. And your statement that dogs are just dogs is way off. Pure bred dogs are selectively bred for very specialized exaggerated traits. Show dogs have usually lost a lot of this but in other cases the aggressive traits have been exaggerated or honed away from their original targets. Ghetto dogs have often been selectively bred for home defense and guard dogs for drugs and other illegal activities. A dog bred like this can usually be rehabilitated but I wouldn't think it worth the risk.
  #47  
Old 01-09-2018, 11:26 PM
Corry El Corry El is offline
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Originally Posted by HoneyBadgerDC View Post
1.I never said they were more likely to attack, I said they were way down on the list of viscous dogs. I did say that when they were vicious they were more dangerous than most other dogs. And your statement that dogs are just dogs is way off. Pure bred dogs are selectively bred for very specialized exaggerated traits. Show dogs have usually lost a lot of this but in other cases the aggressive traits have been exaggerated or honed away from their original targets.

2. Ghetto dogs have often been selectively bred for home defense and guard dogs for drugs and other illegal activities.
1. There's no solid basis for either statement. There is no evidence of controlled studies that breed is a causal factor in dog aggression to humans. Many people believe either that actual American Pit Bull Terrier, or the (less logically) the vastly more genetically diverse range of dogs commonly called 'pit bulls' are less likely to be aggressive to humans than dogs on average. But that pro-'pit bull' point has no scientific basis either. Dogs classed as APBT's score better on the ATTS temperament test than breeds on average, but that's not a scientific result. It doesn't correct for the possibility that people with APBT's they know are sweethearts are more likely to have them tested to show other people. Shelters for example don't pay to have ATTS done on obvious creampuff dogs of 'nice' breeds, but they often do for obvious creampuff APBT's to dispel fear about them and get them homes (or mixed who knows-what-they-really-are, hugely genetically varying 'pit bulls' which are a lot more common).

Likewise real APBT's are 30-60 lb dogs. They aren't so specially strong to have more potential to hurt people than much bigger dogs of which there are many. And 'don't feel pain', 'super strong jaws' etc is wives tale level bullshit, straight up. All big strong dogs have more potential to hurt people than little weak dogs if they have a mind to. Lots of breeds of dogs were bred to fight/kill other animals, nothing remotely unusual about APBT's there either. And again and again, the vast DNA melange of mixed breed dogs which 'look like pit bulls' don't constitute a breed anyway.

2. Here you are stumbling toward the truth: owner factors. For example, lone spayed female dogs of any kind have almost never killed anyone. 80-90% per most studies recording the sex of dogs which serious hurt/kill people, are unfixed males or them leading other dogs. Keeping unfixed male dogs combined with viewing dogs as protection against crime and having multiple dogs of these kinds or including them is a *cultural* phenomenon among certain *people*. It has nothing inherently to do with dogs. Even to the limited extent it's breeding, it's particular local breeding, not whole breeds in a dog show sense, and once again definitely not whole broad appearance categories.

Last edited by Corry El; 01-09-2018 at 11:28 PM.
  #48  
Old 01-09-2018, 11:47 PM
Beckdawrek Beckdawrek is online now
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I believe every point you make up there Corry, I truly do. But still, I am not gonna leave my grand kids any where near one. I think the 'Pit' type dogs will never be considered safe. Too much bad press, whether true or not. It is sad, too! The people I know who have had them cannot be more pleased with their temperament.
  #49  
Old 01-09-2018, 11:51 PM
Isamu Isamu is offline
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Stay in the car! Then lightly tap the gas and turn into the spin.
  #50  
Old 01-10-2018, 12:51 AM
HoneyBadgerDC HoneyBadgerDC is offline
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Corey, I have no idea what your experience with dogs are as you have no idea what my experience is. I have no problem with the pit bull breeds in general as I have stated. My only statement was that a vicious pit bull is a very dangerous animal and I stand by that. I also stand by the statement that traits are bred into dogs sometimes intentionally and sometimes not. As someone who trained and handled dogs for a few decades I can state that as fact. As for pit bulls I have been around them my entire life and I am still around them. They are great dogs. I have fostered any number of them while their owners were in jail. I have personally had one pit x? that was vicious and I had to put down and one sharpei and one brittany spaniel that I had to put down for viciousness but I have known of several that were absolute scary monsters just like their owners wanted them to be. They would tear a person to shreds if they had a chance. Generally speaking a pit bull on a mission is more determined than most breeds and less likely to be dissuaded by body language or even physical force. I doubt I will change your mind and I know you won't change my mind so I am going to let it go at that.
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